UK General Election 4th July

[ChloeTzang]

And THAT is indeed a historic defeat. Projected 170 seat majority for Labour. The Tories look to be struggling to reach 130 MPs.The Lib Dems also inflicted massive pain on the Tories, racking up a record 71 seats. Reform have won 4 seats and it looks like the Greens have 5.

Labour's overall support in Britain has only gone up by 2 per cent, according to polling guru John Curtice, and that is entirely due to a 19 per cent boost in Scotland, where the SNP was almost annihilated. What looks to have happened to the Conservatives is they walked away from their voters, policy-wise, and their voters responded by walking away from them, either to Reform or to the Lib-Dem's. Reform came second in about 100 constituencies. My guess is we're in for a decade of Labour rule, where we'll see the UK economy and society implode further as Labour's socialist mis-government has it's inevitable effects. The UK has recovered from Labour before, but whether the Conservatives will learn from this debacle and reform, or whether Reform will continue to capture votes and seats from the Tories and grow, is another story.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...King-Tories-defeat-Keir-Starmer-election.html

 

[ChloeTzang]

Is Liz Truss hiding in a cupboard, Johnson-style, to avoid a Portillo Moment?

LOL. She went down in flames. She lost her Norfolk South West seat to Labour by 630 votes after the largest swing from the Tories to Labour ever. Terry Jermy overturned a 26,195 majority won by Ms Truss in 2019 after Reform and an independent campaign by the 'Turnip Taliban' - a group of local disgruntled ex-Tories - whittled down her support.

Speaking to the BBC after her defeat she said: 'I think the issue we faced as Conservatives is we haven't delivered sufficiently on the policies people want.

• 'And that means keeping taxes low, but also particularly on reducing immigration. And I think that's been a crucial issue here in South West Norfolk, that was the number one issue that people raised on the doorstep with me.'
• Asked whether she accepted some responsibility for that, Ms Truss said: 'I agree. I was part of that. That's absolutely true.
• 'But during our 14 years in power, unfortunately we did not do enough to take on the legacy we'd been left, in particular things like the Human Rights Act that made it very difficult for us to deport illegal immigrants. And that is one of the reasons I think we've ended up in the situation we are now.'

She summed that one up pretty well. The Conservatives failed to deliver on the economy and capitalizing on Brexit, and they failed to deliver in illegal immigration and that combination killed them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ucy-Frazer-Johnny-Mercer-ousted-election.html

 

[MajorRewrite]

Sunak conceded like an adult. How refreshing that he didn’t bawl like a distraught 4-year-old “I didn’t lose! They cheated! Waaaaaaa!”

Clownish Farage won a seat in commons on his 8th attempt. His Deplorable Party won only 4 seats. With Trumpian logic, he’ll pretend that’s some sort of victory.

Congratulations to the UK. After 14 years of continuous failures and scandals, the Tories were finally flushed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2v0e074jejo

 

[CambridgeBi]

BBC suggest a 54% turn out. I can't understand not voting. People have and do die for that vote.

Sinn Fein get 210,891 votes giving them 7 seats
Lib Dems get 3,499,969 votes giving them 71 seats
Reform UK get 4,092,209 votes giving them 4 seats

So Reform get fewer seats than Sinn Fein despite getting nearly twenty-fold the number of votes.
Lib Dems get over ten-fold the number of seats Reform do despite the fact Reform got > 500,000 votes more than them.

So why don't people vote? Perhaps because they know the UK's dreadful system of "democracy" gives them close to zero percent probability of representation.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Sinn Fein get 210,891 votes giving them 7 seats
Lib Dems get 3,499,969 votes giving them 71 seats
Reform UK get 4,092,209 votes giving them 4 seats

So Reform get fewer seats than Sinn Fein despite getting nearly twenty-fold the number of votes.
Lib Dems get over ten-fold the number of seats Reform do despite the fact Reform got > 500,000 votes more than them.

So why don't people vote? Perhaps because they know the UK's dreadful system of "democracy" gives them close to zero percent probability of representation.

Their system is nearly as bad as the US’! The Donald has never received a majority of the votes in an election, but he was President for a term.

 

[CambridgeBi]

Their system is nearly as bad as the US’! The Donald has never received a majority of the votes in an election, but he was President for a term.

I think ours is probably worse, we don't get to vote for our head of state at all, that's an inherited position.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Sinn Fein get 210,891 votes giving them 7 seats
Lib Dems get 3,499,969 votes giving them 71 seats
Reform UK get 4,092,209 votes giving them 4 seats

So Reform get fewer seats than Sinn Fein despite getting nearly twenty-fold the number of votes.
Lib Dems get over ten-fold the number of seats Reform do despite the fact Reform got > 500,000 votes more than them.

So why don't people vote? Perhaps because they know the UK's dreadful system of "democracy" gives them close to zero percent probability of representation.

It's a lot more complicated than that.

We vote for an individual to represent us, locally. Each seat is 70-75,000 voters (probably double that in population). Local popularity of the candidate is a huge factor - see Jeremy Corbyn, beloved MP for over 40 years, thrown out of the Labour party for being too left-wing and snarky and some comments that could be construed as anti-semitic, standing as an independent against Labour. Huge majority. About 5 other independents. And the Greens hard work of individuals has paid off, similarly.

Tactical voting has become key - both Lib Dems and Labour targeted Tory seats, with the result of a huge swathe of classic small-c conservative southern England turning yellow and most edges of cities going red where they had been blue. Reform have a lot of voters who don't really want them but vote for them as a 'none of the above' option in safe seats, but many fewer did where they had a chance to actually get in.

It's possibly more of a win for tactical voting websites than anyone else. Will see if indeed insisting people bring ID to vote has skewed turnout - it was assumed when they brought it in for local elections 2 months ago that it was a suppression measure to favor older, Conservative voters (allowing age 60+ bus passes but not student bus passes, for example), but ironically it seemed to backfire, because shops now have to ask for ID if anyone looking under 25 wants to buy alcohol - so kids all have and carry it whereas older voters may not have needed any ID in decades.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Sunak conceded like an adult. How refreshing that he didn’t bawl like a distraught 4-year-old “I didn’t lose! They cheated! Waaaaaaa!”

The joys of a reliable electoral system that's run by bureaucrats who are paid to do the job, rather then by elected officials. Makes a huge difference. One thing about the UK, Canadian, Aussie and NZ electoral systems are they are clear, consistent and run professionally. As opposed to our clown show.

I think ours is probably worse, we don't get to vote for our head of state at all, that's an inherited position.

But that inherited position is ceremonial only, and all the ceremonial is wonderful. As an outsider looking in, I love it, and it has no impact whatsoever on how the country is actually governed. The UK stands out for that - there's a reason the British monarchy is so popular everywhere in the world.

Sinn Fein get 210,891 votes giving them 7 seats
Lib Dems get 3,499,969 votes giving them 71 seats
Reform UK get 4,092,209 votes giving them 4 seats

So Reform get fewer seats than Sinn Fein despite getting nearly twenty-fold the number of votes.
Lib Dems get over ten-fold the number of seats Reform do despite the fact Reform got > 500,000 votes more than them.

So why don't people vote? Perhaps because they know the UK's dreadful system of "democracy" gives them close to zero percent probability of representation.

The joys of a first-past-the-post system. No system is flawless, but some form of proportional representation does seem the fairest overall, doesn't it. It also forces compromise, which is almost always for the best.

 

[MajorRewrite]

The joys of a reliable electoral system that's run by bureaucrats who are paid to do the job, rather then by elected officials. Makes a huge difference. One thing about the UK, Canadian, Aussie and NZ electoral systems are they are clear, consistent and run professionally. As opposed to our clown show.

US elections are run by bureaucrats too, so I’m not sure what you’re going on about.

Clown Show is a registered trademark of the Republican House of Representatives.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Their system is nearly as bad as the US’! The Donald has never received a majority of the votes in an election, but he was President for a term.

LOL. I don't know why so many people consistently misunderstand the American political system. It was designed to be a Constitutional Republic, NOT a system where the majority could overrule the minority, ever. Hence the whole State / Federal, Electoral System

US elections are run by bureaucrats too, so I’m not sure what you’re going on about.

Yeah, but a lot of the States have elected or appointed Boards that run them that ARE political appointments, which in large part is why we have all the shenanigans that go on.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Yeah, but a lot of the States have elected or appointed Boards that run them that ARE political appointments, which in large part is why we have all the shenanigans that go on.

It’s true that Republicans get up to a lot of voter suppression shenanigans at the state level. Deplorable.

 

[MajorRewrite]

LOL. I don't know why so many people consistently misunderstand the American political system. It was designed to be a Constitutional Republic, NOT a system where the majority could overrule the minority, ever. Hence the whole State / Federal, Electoral System

CambridgeBi whined about Reform Party getting a lot of votes but few seats in parliament. I simply pointed out that it works the same way here by using Trump’s inability to get a majority of votes as an example.

You responded that proportional representation would be fairest, except that’s apparently what you don’t want in the US.

 

[ChloeTzang]

CambridgeBi whined about Reform Party getting a lot of votes but few seats in parliament. I simply pointed out that it works the same way here by using Trump’s inability to get a majority of votes as an example.

You responded that proportional representation would be fairest, except that’s apparently what you don’t want in the US.

I think we could easily do proportional representation at a State level, where it, might well be a real benefit, and get us away from the Uniparty, and maybe even in the House of Reps. The Senate, no, and the Electoral College works as it does for a reason.

Personally, I think it'd be a plus at a State level.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It’s true that Republicans get up to a lot of voter suppression shenanigans at the state level. Deplorable.

Everyone does, and it is. And it doesn't need to be that way. That our electoral system is so questionable is a huge negative. There should be nothing questionable about accurate electoral rolls, and verifiable voting systems, with next day results. It's NOT rocket science.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Everyone does, and it is. And it doesn't need to be that way. That our electoral system is so questionable is a huge negative. There should be nothing questionable about accurate electoral rolls, and verifiable voting systems, with next day results. It's NOT rocket science.

The fact that I can vote in 10 minutes, nine of which is the walk to and from my polling station, is one of the few things that actually makes me feel patriotic about the UK. It would take longer to vote by post!

Along with knowing that my ballots go into metal boxes which are securely sealed, transported to the counting station, and then counted in front of piles of witnesses, all within a few hours. Stubby pencils and a bunch of paid security-checked staff (mostly council workers or civil servants doing an extra shift) with rubber thimbles may be low tech, but it works and is seen to work.

My last US ballot was the first one I actually received (via email, print it yourself). Always had to do a write-in, before that. I returned by special delivery. It sat in a warehouse in New York for a week, according to USPS, until there was that order to look for overseas ballots. Only arrived on the very last day to be counted. I still trust the paper more than those voting machines.

 

[butters]

so pleased the exit polls for the reform party wildly overestimated their gains

instead of the expected 13, just 4... and that's 4 too many

edit: 5 now. boo

 

[ChloeTzang]

so pleased the exit polls for the reform party wildly overestimated their gains

instead of the expected 13, just 4... and that's 4 too many

edit: 5 now. boo

Don't worry. A lot more in the next election

 

[Matty01]

To be fair to Liz Truss she has a canny pair of tits

 

[ChloeTzang]

The fact that I can vote in 10 minutes, nine of which is the walk to and from my polling station, is one of the few things that actually makes me feel patriotic about the UK. It would take longer to vote by post!

Along with knowing that my ballots go into metal boxes which are securely sealed, transported to the counting station, and then counted in front of piles of witnesses, all within a few hours. Stubby pencils and a bunch of paid security-checked staff (mostly council workers or civil servants doing an extra shift) with rubber thimbles may be low tech, but it works and is seen to work.

My last US ballot was the first one I actually received (via email, print it yourself). Always had to do a write-in, before that. I returned by special delivery. It sat in a warehouse in New York for a week, according to USPS, until there was that order to look for overseas ballots. Only arrived on the very last day to be counted. I still trust the paper more than those voting machines.

THAT is how elections should work.

I was visiting friends in Canada a couple of elections ago and it was the same there. Went like clockwork, no fuss, no claims of cheating or dead voters or illegals voting any nonsense like that. To get on the electoral roll to start with, your id and everything is checked, and then the use changes of address to track you from then on - drivers licenses and when you come to vote you need a couple of id's and proof of address. The voting was at a school 10 minutes walk from where they lived, straight in, minimal queue, checked their id, checked the roll, ticked them off, voted on a paper ballot and out, all within a few minutes, and the results starting coming in later than night and by next morning it was down across the entire country. No claims of cheating, or miscounts, all scrutinized and open and above board and everyone trusted the results, no matter where they were on the political spectrum. Thats the way it should be alright, like the UK.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Most importantly, how will the change of government impact Larry the Cat?

I like how Larry has a police officer available to knock on the door when he wants to go inside.

 

[Bray123]

The Labour vote increased by a lousy 1.6%, not even the 2% quoted (probably a round-up). It's not much for Starmer to crow about.
That gave them a landslide victory, 211 seats more than previously with one more still to be declared. Without the corruption scandals that destroyed the Scottish Nationals they may have struggled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

Nigel Farage's Reform Party achieved 4,114,287 votes, winning 5 MPs.
Ed Davey's Liberal Democrat Party achieved a lower number; 3,501,040 votes but won 71 MPs (an increase of 63 seats).

The Labour total was only roughly double, at 9,698,409 votes.

There's no way that the two major parties will consider a change to give a better representation to the large numbers of the population who don't support either.
Ed Davey's campaigning consisted mainly of bungee-jumping for the TV cameras. He had just about zero coverage for policy speeches, which just goes to show something but I'm not entirely sure what.

 

[Bray123]

And another thing.
Sinn Fein won 7 seats with 210,891 votes to become the major party of Northern Ireland (they don't actually turn up at Westminster but claim their maximum salaries and expenses because principles).

That's less people than attended this year's Glastonbury or half of last year's British Grand Prix.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

And another thing.
Sinn Fein won 7 seats with 210,891 votes to become the major party of Northern Ireland (they don't actually turn up at Westminster but claim their maximum salaries and expenses because principles).

Just checked to confirm, and you're mistaken. 'They are not entitled to salaries as they do not take their seats. But they are allowed to claim allowances for the costs of staff, offices and travel.'

People say they're good constituency MPs. They must be OK or people would go back to other republican parties like the SDLP. Presumably they're not claiming weekly flights to London because they're not doing any, but they run constituency offices like any other MPs. They certainly lobby on behalf of constituents.

Most importantly, how will the change of government impact Larry the Cat?

Not at all, given he's employed as Chief Mouser to No.10, rather than by the Government - he's basically a civil servant.

I am totally serious about this. I think there's two other cats still who work in the Whitehall buildings on either side.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Not at all, given he's employed as Chief Mouser to No.10, rather than by the Government - he's basically a civil servant.

I am totally serious about this. I think there's two other cats still who work in the Whitehall buildings on either side.

That's so British. OMG he's even in Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_(cat)

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That's so British. OMG he's even in Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_(cat)

That's an incredibly detailed biography! Amazing he's served under 6 PMs now.

But yes, elections give all the opportunities for both tradition and eccentricity that marks British culture as separate from other English-speaking nations, from mayors in gold braid declaiming "and I duly declare the said Thingy Middlename Wotsit the winner of" (lost in applause), in a sports hall at 5am, the ex-PM having to give a speech with an L for Loser sign held over his head, next to a walking dustbin, the existence of the Monster Raving Loony Party...

This post-result image sums it up: Beans and Toast

American politics could really do with some of that. I love my other country, I do, but really struggle with people and especially politicians being so serious and po-faced all the time. In the UK, not being able to laugh at yourself is a cardinal sin, probably way above any of the ten commandments. I mean, a year-long election campaign would probably still be fuck boring, but it would really help if both Trump and Biden had stalkers in comedy costumes making political points, everywhere they went.