Veganism and Raw Foods.

[rosco rathbone]

This seems as good a place as any for this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/fashion/10caveman.html

 

[graceanne]

Really?

If there is a health benefit, it means there is something missing in non raw food, right? What is missing? It shouldn't be too difficult to determine this.

The belief is that by cooking the foods, you're cooking the nutrition out of it, not to mention the unhealthy benefits of HOW it's cooked.

 

[lightsaver]

I seriously loath substitutes. They taste like crap, even if I didn't know it was a substitute. I'll be all happy expecting good food and then you get that shit. Why oh why can't you just make up new dishes that taste good, instead of trying to replace whats known and loved.

One exception, my mom found this low sodium Parmesan cheese substitute that really tastes spot on.

And my cooking skills are perfection. You may not like it though, eating meat when I'm able to prepare it just as I want gets you a very personal encounter with the animal itself.

I used to have a strong adherence to eating sans the veggie substitutes.
Then I began running marathons and basically had to respect the fact that I was wrong about them. During the first decade of being a vegetarian though, I considered them.....utterly distasteful.

Low sodium Parmesan cheese substitute..Wow. That is a find!

Since your cooking skills are perfection, I think you are the perfect person to dabble in cooking something with a meat substitute. The entire approach is different.

I cook many meat dishes for my loved ones and according to them, the result is excellent. I go with colour and smell to determine where I am at with the cooking process. Taste, I go with smell, instinct and whoever is around to taste it for me
But you are right, I would not want to be close and personal with any dead animal.

 

[lightsaver]

Well, about a month ago I got all crazy and had a hamburger and it almost fucking killed me. I'm serious, I was very close to going to the emergency room as it apparently made me pass a gallstone or something equally painful.

I don't know if you just get really sensitive to animal products for a short time but I think it's not the case. It turns out and my doc supports this that animal based products are very hard on your body. Something that a lot of people don't think about also is food prep. I can no longer eat fried foods, no french fries or stuff that has been breaded and fried. If I eat the stuff it puts me right into the bathroom until the evil has been all purged.

Since I've been off of the breads and sugar now for around a month I also had a sudden and severe body detox which made me break out like I'd rolled naked thru a forest of poison ivy. It's around 90% cleared up now and getting better but what a wake up call. Over the past year my diet has completely changed but I haven't seen really overt changes in my health until more recently as I've gone closer and closer to veganism.

There seems to be a cutoff point where you need to choose to stay on the healthier side of and for me it looks like my body is telling me that I'm going to permanently be a hardcore vegan. I'll lean toward raw organic foods when it's feasible but won't sweat it so much because I like to do the veggie stir fry type dishes and some of the asian or Indian cooking appeals to me too.

I wear entirely too much leather to be a peta member so don't worry, I won't be out shopping for Earth friendly, green, zero carbon footprint floggers any time soon.

Gosh, that is a hell and back to pay for a hamburger. Passing a gallstone is excruciating, my boss went through it - I only 'know' about it from visiting her in the hospital and what she explained to me. I am very glad you made it through that ordeal without needing surgery as she did.

It is smart to go the direction your body prefers when it comes to diet.
Definitely.

I would like to mention, that noticing, observing ones dietery preferences is commendable to each of us who do so. Also, applying it helps physically as well as mentally.

 

[Netzach]

This seems as good a place as any for this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/fashion/10caveman.html

My new MD is a Cordain fan. I'm content with chicken and grass fed burger on individual runs to the plains of Lund's.

 

[YourCaptor]

I used to have a strong adherence to eating sans the veggie substitutes.
Then I began running marathons and basically had to respect the fact that I was wrong about them. During the first decade of being a vegetarian though, I considered them.....utterly distasteful.

Low sodium Parmesan cheese substitute..Wow. That is a find!

Since your cooking skills are perfection, I think you are the perfect person to dabble in cooking something with a meat substitute. The entire approach is different.

I cook many meat dishes for my loved ones and according to them, the result is excellent. I go with colour and smell to determine where I am at with the cooking process. Taste, I go with smell, instinct and whoever is around to taste it for me
But you are right, I would not want to be close and personal with any dead animal.

What is sans? Never heard of it. What is it made of?

A vegetarian marathon runner. That’s like an oxymoron. How do you prep? Lentils, nuts…

Meat substitutes… they are kind of an arch rival. I’m sure I could make something good out of it though, I mean that’s the whole point, start with nothing and make something good. However I’m sure as hell not gonna pretend its meat at any stage.

Guess that’s a sort of hang up, I like to be able to identify what I eat. That’s why I don’t like ground meat, and hence the whole personal experience thing.

You can actually feel how well meat is cooked. You have to be cooking a lot though to get that. I try to just get the same size cut every time and do the same thing as usual. That guaranties a good sear. That is when I can afford meat. These days much of my diet is pasta, butter, and garlic salt.

 

[Betticus]

Sans means "without".

 

[Netzach]

What is sans? Never heard of it. What is it made of?

A vegetarian marathon runner. That’s like an oxymoron. How do you prep? Lentils, nuts…

H runs 50Ks. He's 58. He preps just fine and leaves most people in younger age brackets in the dust.

 

[JMohegan]

Crappy vegetarian runners - such wimps!


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/horse.jpg

 

[PertPerth]

The belief is that by cooking the foods, you're cooking the nutrition out of it

That's a very strong belief indeed - and not always true. You can cook foods to keep in the nutrition. In fact, some foods you need to cook to be able to digest properly (and therefor get the nutrients from).
I have IBS, so an all-raw diet wouldn't be good for me. I quickly (dry) stir-fry my veggies, or nuke (microwave) if I'm in a hurry. I only eat fresh foods - no frozen veg for me. But I also eat meat, carbs and loads of no-fat dairy (milk and yoghurt....never been a fan of cheese). I'm not sure if I'd cope on a vegan diet!

Guess that’s a sort of hang up, I like to be able to identify what I eat. That’s why I don’t like ground meat, and hence the whole personal experience thing.

Ditto. Any kind of 'meat roll', 'fish stick' or mince is banned from my shopping trolley.

 

[Betticus]

Well, as far as having the willpower or whatever to go vegan when your doctor says you'll be dead within a year if you don't make the change it really helps in the motivation department.

Especially after having surgery on your liver with no anesthetic. I don't care to repeat that but in the bdsm sense it gave me a new appreciation for the way you can tolerate pain.

 

[graceanne]

That's a very strong belief indeed - and not always true. You can cook foods to keep in the nutrition. In fact, some foods you need to cook to be able to digest properly (and therefor get the nutrients from).
I have IBS, so an all-raw diet wouldn't be good for me. I quickly (dry) stir-fry my veggies, or nuke (microwave) if I'm in a hurry. I only eat fresh foods - no frozen veg for me. But I also eat meat, carbs and loads of no-fat dairy (milk and yoghurt....never been a fan of cheese). I'm not sure if I'd cope on a vegan diet!

I'm not disagreeing, just explaining. I can't eat raw foods, either, and I bake and broil and stir fry a lot.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My new MD is a Cordain fan. I'm content with chicken and grass fed burger on individual runs to the plains of Lund's.

My feeling is, if you actually kill the meat, I won't laugh at you.

 

[YourCaptor]

Well, as far as having the willpower or whatever to go vegan when your doctor says you'll be dead within a year if you don't make the change it really helps in the motivation department.

Especially after having surgery on your liver with no anesthetic. I don't care to repeat that but in the bdsm sense it gave me a new appreciation for the way you can tolerate pain.

So what did they tell you, you should eat? I remember for me it was almost like an after thought. "Oh, and don't eat anything with flavor or odor, except fish oil".

Maybe you can get your doc to make a meeting with a nutritionist a medical expense.

 

[PertPerth]

Well, as far as having the willpower or whatever to go vegan when your doctor says you'll be dead within a year if you don't make the change it really helps in the motivation department.

Especially after having surgery on your liver with no anesthetic. I don't care to repeat that but in the bdsm sense it gave me a new appreciation for the way you can tolerate pain.

I think that is the best motivation ever. It sounds like you've had a rough run - I hope you've been through the worst of it.
Unfortunately a 'wake up call' is not enough for some people. My friend's dad is diabetic and about to lose a foot because he refuses to eat properly, stop drinking and take his medications. It's very hard for the rest of the family to watch.

So what did they tell you, you should eat? I remember for me it was almost like an after thought. "Oh, and don't eat anything with flavor or odor, except fish oil".

Maybe you can get your doc to make a meeting with a nutritionist a medical expense.

An after-thought? That's terrible! I totally agree - it does sound like that a nutritionist is better to talk to than a GP, especially when it can make such a dramatic difference to ones health.

 

[Betticus]

So what did they tell you, you should eat? I remember for me it was almost like an after thought. "Oh, and don't eat anything with flavor or odor, except fish oil".

Maybe you can get your doc to make a meeting with a nutritionist a medical expense.

Actually, they only said that I couldn't drink for a minimum of a year to be considered for a transplant. I told em no, that I will either make it with my original parts or not. I also reminded them that so far no-one has ever beaten death and that it will come at some time so prolonging a life for a few years at best with a donor liver and having to suffer with all of the side effects of anti rejection meds and immune system suppresants wasn't worth it.

So, after I almost died from a toxic blood ammonia buildup my regular doctor told me that I'd have to take some syrupy goo to keep it in check. I had to dig and do my own research in order to learn about the whole dietary thing.

Basically, if it doesn't come in a pill that is patented by some pharma company it's iffy if you will hear about it.

 

[Betticus]

A few friends came over last evening, we were relaxing and having a nice time and I decided to attempt to capture one of the girls unique eye color on camera. She was nice enough to pose for me and this is one of the shots I got.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/betticus/Ashleyl.jpg

 

[Netzach]

I think that is the best motivation ever. It sounds like you've had a rough run - I hope you've been through the worst of it.
Unfortunately a 'wake up call' is not enough for some people. My friend's dad is diabetic and about to lose a foot because he refuses to eat properly, stop drinking and take his medications. It's very hard for the rest of the family to watch.



An after-thought? That's terrible! I totally agree - it does sound like that a nutritionist is better to talk to than a GP, especially when it can make such a dramatic difference to ones health.

A nutritionist? Those are the people who put ice cream on your hospital tray. Ice cream. Out of a dixie cup. Second ingredient, "corn syrup."
Mainstream nutritionists have been the only people I've found even less worth consulting than mainstream generalists.

 

[Etoile]

I love meat substitutes. Love them. And know a lot about them. Yum.

 

[YourCaptor]

Actually, they only said that I couldn't drink for a minimum of a year to be considered for a transplant. I told em no, that I will either make it with my original parts or not. I also reminded them that so far no-one has ever beaten death and that it will come at some time so prolonging a life for a few years at best with a donor liver and having to suffer with all of the side effects of anti rejection meds and immune system suppresants wasn't worth it.

So, after I almost died from a toxic blood ammonia buildup my regular doctor told me that I'd have to take some syrupy goo to keep it in check. I had to dig and do my own research in order to learn about the whole dietary thing.

Basically, if it doesn't come in a pill that is patented by some pharma company it's iffy if you will hear about it.

Hmmm

I really think you should reconsider. Immune system suppressants are not that bad. The hospital can get you in touch with someone who is on the medications, you should take a look, talk to them. You are also still on the younger side, and appear to be pretty fit, that will all factor in to make the meds much more tolerable. Liver failure is also slow, and not pretty. I had a guy next to me once, I think he had liver failure, sounded painful, had tubes permanently pumping something out of him. It's not pretty.

It's not just a few extra years either, it can take you far past normal peoples life expectancy. Yes we all die, but whats the point of living if you just focus on dieing. You can make it much more enjoyable.

 

[SirLeo]

Long Time Perspective

I have been a vegetarian for 37 years with about a 3 year stint in my late 20's when I ate poultry fish & seafood. I've always been halthy and fit. My sons, 11 has been vegetarians sicne birth, my 8 year old since he was 5. Everyone is healthy, strong, and vital. We do eat eggs, my kids eat dairy, I don't. My wife is a great cook. When she makes a veggie lasagna or pizza using Galaxy soy cheese and Morningstar meatless starters our non-veggie friends and family can't tell the difference. Actaully, she usually doesn't say anything about the dish being veggie, she just serves it and evryone compliments her on how great it is.

Many people have specific allergies to things like wheat, soy, dairy, etc. Of course, not everything is for everyone, but my family is a living example that eating animals is not necessary to sustain a healthy life.

The important thing IMO is not whether or not to be a vegetarian, but to live sustainably. That is in a manner that causes the earth, all its inhabitants and our human communites to thrive ecologically, economically and socially.

 

[Cattypuss]

Tee hee!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdcrEo1eCBY

 

[cromsgirl]

Now that was funny!

 

[lightsaver]

I have been a vegetarian for 37 years with about a 3 year stint in my late 20's when I ate poultry fish & seafood. I've always been halthy and fit. My sons, 11 has been vegetarians sicne birth, my 8 year old since he was 5. Everyone is healthy, strong, and vital. We do eat eggs, my kids eat dairy, I don't. My wife is a great cook. When she makes a veggie lasagna or pizza using Galaxy soy cheese and Morningstar meatless starters our non-veggie friends and family can't tell the difference. Actaully, she usually doesn't say anything about the dish being veggie, she just serves it and evryone compliments her on how great it is.

Many people have specific allergies to things like wheat, soy, dairy, etc. Of course, not everything is for everyone, but my family is a living example that eating animals is not necessary to sustain a healthy life.

The important thing IMO is not whether or not to be a vegetarian, but to live sustainably. That is in a manner that causes the earth, all its inhabitants and our human communites to thrive ecologically, economically and socially.

*Swoon*

 

[SirLeo]

Swoon?

*Swoon*

I hope its for all the right reasons......