Vote Republican or Die

[Edward Teach]

Hay! I used to work for the Electric Boat division of General Dynamics near Boston. Honest. I cleaned atomic submarines for about 3 months. They were cool, but talk about government waste!

I just heard about some transport plane that got cancelled after we spent 30 billion on it. It was kind of unusual, because no one wanted it, but they were building it anyway. It's like they just had to burn up that money on something.

How come when money's spent on education or social stuff, it's called "throwing money" at a problem, but when it's wasted on war toys it's considered strong on national defense?

---dr.M.

The Electric Boat job must have been really interesting. Just seeing one of those things up close would be a thrill.

The latest term the neocons use for spending money on Charter Schools and No Child Left Behind (aka No Contractor Left Behind)is "investment." Money to fund regular public schools is called, as you say, "throwing money at it."

Ed

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly,

I agree that perception can be very important and powerful in an election.

But whether it holds any sway with suicide bombing terrorists is doubtful. Further, people sophisticated enough in world politics to manage Al Queda type organizations surely know that one administration is going to be just as difficult to deal with as another.

To argue otherwise, it seems to me, is to argue that Al Queda was more afraid of Clinton than Bush.


Ed

I don't seriously entertain the notion AQ has a preference. Neither party is likely to give them what they want. I think the range and scope of thier operations will change very little whether Kerry or Bush is president. I don't think either party has a magic bullet to stop them. The only long term solution is a vast upgrade in our intellignece gathering and analyisis capabilities. Neither Bush nor Ketty is going to make that happen over night.

That however dose not alter the perception that we have to do SOMETHING now. A scared population isn't going to be satisfied with, we are upgradeing our intelligence capabilities. They are going to want something concrete, even if it is useless concrete and window dressing, like the homeland security department.

Until you manage to divorce people's minds from the notion that the military is our best defense against further terror, being painted as anti-military is going to cost you significantly politically. At least, that's my feeling.

-Colly

 

[rgraham666]

A quote I read a few years ago about the money available for the U.S. military.

"In the U.S., there's enough graft for everybody."

 

[Edward Teach]

I don't seriously entertain the notion AQ has a preference. Neither party is likely to give them what they want. I think the range and scope of thier operations will change very little whether Kerry or Bush is president. I don't think either party has a magic bullet to stop them. The only long term solution is a vast upgrade in our intellignece gathering and analyisis capabilities. Neither Bush nor Ketty is going to make that happen over night.

That however dose not alter the perception that we have to do SOMETHING now. A scared population isn't going to be satisfied with, we are upgradeing our intelligence capabilities. They are going to want something concrete, even if it is useless concrete and window dressing, like the homeland security department.

Until you manage to divorce people's minds from the notion that the military is our best defense against further terror, being painted as anti-military is going to cost you significantly politically. At least, that's my feeling.

-Colly

I agree with that.

Ed

 

[Guest]

Note to self:
Must stop starting a thread nobody cares about.

 

[impressive]

A quote I read a few years ago about the money available for the U.S. military.

"In the U.S., there's enough graft for everybody."

I worked for the military (as a civilian) for almost a decade. Believe me, there's PLENTY of room for belt tightening without compromising defense one iota.

Of course, it will meet with indignant "get your hands off my graft" shouts!

 

[Guest]

I agree with that.

Ed

Ahoy! Capitan Black Beard on board!

Pirates, CIA, the same thing.

 

[Jagged]

My so many opinions and none based in fact. We hate Bush (very few why's though and even less why I like Kerry) is the only common thread. Kerry won't do what is necessary plain and and simple.


Education is not the federal goverment's job and Bush shouldn't have gotten involved. Education is a system that needs to be dealt with on a local level.

Healthcare, millions have been spend on it once again and I think it is good but the system once again shouldn't be a concern of the federal government.


Defense is the one real concern of the federal government.


Bin Ladin gotten stronger? Really, he has lost people, resources, and leaders. Have we found all the cells know but they are being fought everywhere. The war in Iraq is only making them hate us More?!?! They hate us now......recruits were coming in before and after.

I watched the towers burn!? The President is writing a new page in modern warfare for the United States. The Army built to win WWIII performed great in the first Gulf War. The military is changing and it takes time. The President seems to be following advice of some of the most intelligent people this country has to offer so I am pleased.

So all you arm chair generals think it is so easy? The war on terror is a generational battle. Let's start training our young for the long road ahead. Terrorists prevail when the other side simply gets tired and goes home. There are many nations that need our help.....I only hope we can help them all one day.








I agree though that chillded volka is very good to drink.

 

[Guest]

It's bin Laden, goddamnit!

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

It's Not Always About You
by Gwynne Dyer

The Toronto Star
Tuesday, July 6, 2004


... Public debate in the United States generally assumes that America is the only true home of democracy and freedom, and that other people and countries are pro-American or anti-American because they support or reject those ideals. Practically nobody on the rest of the planet would recognize this picture, but it is the only one most Americans are shown — and it has major foreign policy implications.

This is what enables President George W. Bush to explain away why the United States was attacked with the simple phrase, "They hate our freedoms," and to avoid any discussion that delves into the impact of American foreign policy in the Middle East on Arab and Muslim attitudes toward the United States. It also blinds most Americans to the nature of the strategic game that their country has been tricked into playing a role in.

So once more, with feeling: the 9/11 attacks were not aimed at American values, which are of no interest to the Islamists one way or another. They were an operation that was broadly intended to raise the profile of the Islamists in the Muslim world, but they had the further quite specific goal of luring the United States into invading Muslim countries.

The true goal of the Islamists is to come to power in Muslim countries, and their problem until recently was that they could not win over enough local people to make their revolutions happen. Getting the U.S. to march into the Muslim world in pursuit of the terrorists was a potentially promising stratagem, since an invasion should produce endless images of American soldiers killing and humiliating Muslims. That might finally push enough people into the arms of the Islamists to get their stalled revolutions off the ground.

Specifically, the Al Qaeda planners expected the U.S. to invade Afghanistan and get bogged down in the same long counter-guerrilla war that the Russians had experienced there, providing along the way years of horrifying images of American firepower killing innocent Muslims. Osama bin Laden and his colleagues were simply trying to relive their past success against the Russians and get some more mileage out of the Afghan scenario.

In fact, their plan failed: the U.S. conquered Afghanistan quickly and at a low cost in lives. Even now, despite huge American neglect, Afghanistan has not produced a major resistance movement.

The reason Al Qaeda is still in business in a big way is that the Bush administration then invaded Iraq. The Islamists were astonished, no doubt, but they knew how to exploit an opportunity when one was handed to them. And so the real game continues, while the public debate in the United States is conducted in terms that have only the most tangential contact with strategic reality.....

Copyright Toronto Star Newspapers Limited

 

[rgraham666]

I've liked Gwynne Dyer for many years now.

His book and TV series War was one of the most enlightening I've ever read. When I want to ruminate about conflict, this book along with John Keegan's History of Warfare and Sun Tzu's The Art of War are the books I always return to.

The most enlightening observation in War was that war is not a barbaric thing, it's a civilized thing.

 

[Edward Teach]

Ahoy! Capitan Black Beard on board!

Pirates, CIA, the same thing.

I agree with that.