We could all learn something from SamuelX

[lovecraft68]

SamuelX is quite clearly a nutjob. He reminds me of an obsessive hoarder of bottle-tops, or one of those guys who writes hundreds of letters a day to the newspaper.

Whether or not he cares what people think, is hard to gauge, but he's found safe ground in this tolerant site, bless him.

I feel more pity than admiration for him.

As I posted earlier, the most impressive thing about his stories is the incredibly low scores of some of them, which seem to be based on a dumb mob's gleeful knee jerk response to some of the off-the-wall things he says regarding race.

There's definitely an air of catharsis to some of his work. He's angry about somethings apparently, and writing is a healthy way to get it out. I have some rants in some of my stories-especially my off lit horror series-where I use my characters to spew some of my personal vendettas against certain things.

Your last point is part of why I think some people-not all for Christ's sake-need to lighten up on how seriously they take the ratings here, because you're right, this guy has been writing here for a very long time and has a dedicated base of people of just bomb everything he puts out most likely without reading. There's also writers here who have bases who will five anything they put out. I've have a lot of comments over the years to the effect of "Not your best, but I like you and gave it a five"

That's not exactly a fair rating and why I think many people's-including myself-numbers can be inflated. Quality is not what many people here base a vote on.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lovcraft68 should hand you the trophy and bow out gracefully.

On your endorsement, because I haven't read his posts here, I can easily imagine the content so why bother, I will concede the biggest troll category to the great self fluffer.

After all, on the original topic of taking things here too seriously, we're talking about a man caught using alts to comment on his own stories about how great they, and the author, are.

And that makes all his bragging even more precious.

 

[lovecraft68]

Again... why is it your place to get people to do that? Why don't you just mind your own business and let others mind theirs?



As I pointed out way above, a lot of people didn't get that. Because you didn't communicate it clearly at all. Probably starts with the thread title, now that I think of it.

I stand by the title because I think we can all take something from it, including myself, because I'm not going to say I don't get caught up occasionally in something there that in reality isn't the be all end all, although that hasn't happened in a long time here, I'm still mindful of making sure I stay grounded in reality vs Lit perception of my work which includes not taking my own stats to mean anything other than Lit is an easy voting site unless you're in a certain category.

If there was something I missed in my post, it was that I didn't mean to imply the author doesn't care about their writing, my zero fucks given comment-which Simon took the wrong way, suggested I was saying don't give a shit what you write, and that's not true, its to not care so much about how it gets received here, which isn't a reflection of quality at all, but people's personal reactions to random things in a story.

 

[SimonDoom]

If there was something I missed in my post, it was that I didn't mean to imply the author doesn't care about their writing, my zero fucks given comment-which Simon took the wrong way, suggested I was saying don't give a shit what you write, and that's not true, its to not care so much about how it gets received here, which isn't a reflection of quality at all, but people's personal reactions to random things in a story.

I'll give you this much--it's a discussion worth having (minus insults and name-calling) and you got a rise out of people.

I think to some degree this is a lot of posing rather than debate. People range all over the map on the "how much do I care what other Literotica authors think?" question, and that's fine. People have different attitudes about how much they care. That's fine.

I think it's childish to chide people and call them narcissists. That's a term with a clinical meaning and you have no idea whether anyone here is, in fact, a narcissist. Caring about numbers and such doesn't make one a narcissist. It doesn't make one anything other than somebody who cares about numbers and such.

I believe it is natural and normal to care about what other people think about what one does, whether it's your job, a hobby, or a creative endeavor. You shouldn't be craven and slavish about it, and you should try to stay true to yourself, whatever that means in your case, but I think it's silly in any endeavor to affect an "I don't care what others think" attitude. In the case of most people, it's an affectation, not a real belief. And among those who really DO think that way, there probably IS an abnormally high incidence of narcissism and sociopathy.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I stand by the title because I think we can all take something from it, including myself, because I'm not going to say I don't get caught up occasionally in something there that in reality isn't the be all end all, although that hasn't happened in a long time here, I'm still mindful of making sure I stay grounded in reality vs Lit perception of my work which includes not taking my own stats to mean anything other than Lit is an easy voting site unless you're in a certain category.

If there was something I missed in my post, it was that I didn't mean to imply the author doesn't care about their writing, my zero fucks given comment-which Simon took the wrong way, suggested I was saying don't give a shit what you write, and that's not true, its to not care so much about how it gets received here, which isn't a reflection of quality at all, but people's personal reactions to random things in a story.

It seems to me that in your praise of Samuel's attitude, you are advocating for a sort of supply-side approach to writing, in which the author has no responsibility to even attempt to provide the best quality work of which they are capable. That is certainly a tenable position if that is an author's desire, but I would submit that it is much more narcissistic than an interest in scores or reader feedback.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll give you this much--it's a discussion worth having (minus insults and name-calling) and you got a rise out of people.

I think to some degree this is a lot of posing rather than debate. People range all over the map on the "how much do I care what other Literotica authors think?" question, and that's fine. People have different attitudes about how much they care. That's fine.

I think it's childish to chide people and call them narcissists. That's a term with a clinical meaning and you have no idea whether anyone here is, in fact, a narcissist. Caring about numbers and such doesn't make one a narcissist. It doesn't make one anything other than somebody who cares about numbers and such.

I believe it is natural and normal to care about what other people think about what one does, whether it's your job, a hobby, or a creative endeavor. You shouldn't be craven and slavish about it, and you should try to stay true to yourself, whatever that means in your case, but I think it's silly in any endeavor to affect an "I don't care what others think" attitude. In the case of most people, it's an affectation, not a real belief. And among those who really DO think that way, there probably IS an abnormally high incidence of narcissism and sociopathy.

What you and others continue to miss is this is not directed at everyone. The second thing is there are people here who are narcissists(sneezes out the name Keith D) and are vain about their vaunted stats. There are people who take it way the hell too seriously, and there are people who don't take them seriously at all, and some fall in the middle.

Before I go further you used an analogy before "I'll build a chair anyway I want" bad analogy. There are only so many ways to build a standard chair, but countless ways to write a story. Lot of people here are outside the box writers and unapologetically so as they should be.

The post isn't meant for the latter two, but the former. Applying everything in moderation which is an under rated adage that people only seem to consider in terms of drinking or other things that can be detrimental to oneself putting way to much stock in such a free for all of a 'system" is taking away from the importance of writing itself.

If I posed this question to everyone "Would you rather be a crappy writer but have great scores, a sea of red H's and thousands of favs, or would you rather be a good writer who has scores in the lower fours and isn't on any top lists etc..." there are people here who would take the first option. Obsession, vanity, or simply willing to sell out for fake accolades? Doesn't matter the reason other than its sad.

The problem here is Lit has no parameters to vote on other than the readers basic 1-5 star opinion. You know how readers are, you get comments of "Really great story, then he came on her tits and not inside her. 3 stars" (That's a real comment on one of mine) is that valuable 'data". I had one on a story last year "One star for using 'bro' in the title' again, quite useful.

And that's most of the voting here, anything can take anyone out of a story based on personal taste with no reflection on the writing itself So why sweat it as much as some people do?

E-bay has a rating system when you give a seller feedback. 1-5 stars like here, but multiple criteria. Shipping time, item as described etc...

Now say Lit did that. You would click to vote and be shown Grammar, story, 'hotness' and the final vote is an aggregate of the individual votes. So I get a 5 for the story, a 5 for hotness, but a three for grammar and my total score is...

That could lend some weight to the scores because it factors in more than "yeah loved it, no, hated it"

That won't happen to we have this. A system that is easily gamed, allows anon to run around bombing with impunity, the same for cheerleading with 5's blasting stories on top lists, pushing stories up on top lists...scoring based on "I don't like when a woman calls herself a slut" personal prejudices, knee jerk reactions to an opinion expressed etc...

Nothing here, other than the rare insightful comment, is an indicator to the talent of a writer so when people talk improvement here, it comes from continuing to writer and get better through trial and error, and there is some good advice to be had here in the terms of actual writing, but very little from the readers is going to help you get better. Pandering to the people who say "next time they should..." is not making you better, it cheapens your gift

 

[lovecraft68]

It seems to me that in your praise of Samuel's attitude, you are advocating for a sort of supply-side approach to writing, in which the author has no responsibility to even attempt to provide the best quality work of which they are capable. That is certainly a tenable position if that is an author's desire, but I would submit that it is much more narcissistic than an interest in scores or reader feedback.

Okay, let me ask you this, how do you know this isn't in his mind his best quality work? I don't know if it is or not, only he does.
As I said earlier to clarify, I'm not saying not to put care into your work, just be careful of caring too much how its received on a site full of people who vote according to endless variables and many nothing to do with talent.

All my stories I feel I have written to the best of my ability and true to the vision that came to me. That's what I owe to myself, and to the reader. But if the readers reaction is negative, well, they didn't like the story so what? Maybe they like the next one, or maybe not but I'm not going to change. If the complaint was bad formatting, horrible typos, bad grammar, those are things to be worked on and part of "the best of my ability being I work on those things. After that, everything here is opinions and we all know that they're like(hint we all have one)

Like I just posted to Simon someone commented they gave me a three because of where the "money shot' landed and a one bomb because they don't like the term "Bro". I'm supposed to take that seriously? That's 'data' as a couple of people referred to it?

Here's my story, its my baby, my way. Great if you like it, fine if you don't.

Like in real life you're never doing anything for yourself by being a people pleaser.

 

[Voboy]

Okay, let me ask you this, how do you know this isn't in his mind his best quality work? I don't know if it is or not, only he does.
As I said earlier to clarify, I'm not saying not to put care into your work, just be careful of caring too much how its received on a site full of people who vote according to endless variables and many nothing to do with talent.

All my stories I feel I have written to the best of my ability and true to the vision that came to me. That's what I owe to myself, and to the reader. But if the readers reaction is negative, well, they didn't like the story so what? Maybe they like the next one, or maybe not but I'm not going to change. If the complaint was bad formatting, horrible typos, bad grammar, those are things to be worked on and part of "the best of my ability being I work on those things. After that, everything here is opinions and we all know that they're like(hint we all have one)

Like I just posted to Simon someone commented they gave me a three because of where the "money shot' landed and a one bomb because they don't like the term "Bro". I'm supposed to take that seriously? That's 'data' as a couple of people referred to it?

Here's my story, its my baby, my way. Great if you like it, fine if you don't.

Like in real life you're never doing anything for yourself by being a people pleaser.

You’re aware, I presume, that not everyone is motivated by the same things you’re motivated by? Yes or no?

 

[MelissaBaby]

Okay, let me ask you this, how do you know this isn't in his mind his best quality work? I don't know if it is or not, only he does.
As I said earlier to clarify, I'm not saying not to put care into your work, just be careful of caring too much how its received on a site full of people who vote according to endless variables and many nothing to do with talent.

All my stories I feel I have written to the best of my ability and true to the vision that came to me. That's what I owe to myself, and to the reader. But if the readers reaction is negative, well, they didn't like the story so what? Maybe they like the next one, or maybe not but I'm not going to change. If the complaint was bad formatting, horrible typos, bad grammar, those are things to be worked on and part of "the best of my ability being I work on those things. After that, everything here is opinions and we all know that they're like(hint we all have one)

Like I just posted to Simon someone commented they gave me a three because of where the "money shot' landed and a one bomb because they don't like the term "Bro". I'm supposed to take that seriously? That's 'data' as a couple of people referred to it?

Here's my story, its my baby, my way. Great if you like it, fine if you don't.

Like in real life you're never doing anything for yourself by being a people pleaser.

I was not referring to SamuelX or his approach to writing. I was specifically addressing your description of people who are concerned about the reception to their stories as narcissists, and positing that that term more accurately describes a writer who does not care what anyone thinks about their work.

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's my story, its my baby, my way. Great if you like it, fine if you don't.

Like in real life you're never doing anything for yourself by being a people pleaser.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, above, but the problem is you are presenting a false choice. One doesn't have to choose between heroic defiance of all people's opinions on the one hand and craven people pleasing on the other. You can choose to get whatever you want about the feedback. I have exactly the same opinion of much of the feedback I get that you do: it's uninformed, useless crap. But not all of it is. I see it as extremely noisy data. You have to sift out the noise to get anything useful from it, but it's not useless.

I feel like I can do both things and do not have to choose. It should be fairly clear from my history of comments in this forum that I have some very strong personal opinions about how I like to write, and I stick by them. But I also value people's opinions. One doesn't have to choose.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

People here are being so argumentative for no real reason. At least half of these posts are about continuing some arguments and sore spots from previous threads, or personal dislike of the person who posts or replies. You are giving me an impression that I am a worse English speaker than I actually am, just because you seem to find some points of contention in every single word that is written, rather than take the context of the whole post.

Even though its always been discussed here, it seems there's more threads now about one bombs and bad comments and ratings and locking in ratings and crying about 4.8's that are now only 4.7's. This leads to the same comments, arguments, suggestions etc...

This was the intro to the first post. I understood it as an ironic reply to people who keep reiterating their complaints how they got this or that undeserved score or comment, a sort of a tongue in cheek thing. I replied in a similar manner, as this couldn't have ever been a truly serious post. Why? Because it is all based on assumptions. We have no idea whether or not Samuelx really cares or not, if he is writing to the best of his ability or not and so on. We are just guessing stuff based on the number of stories, scores, and his lack of response. For all we know he could be on a serious therapy because of the emotional impact of the feedback he is getting. Or maybe he could be having some more private blog where the people whose opinions he does care about can talk to him. Or maybe he truly doesn't give a fuck.
The whole point is that we don't know anything for certain, and that is why this is nothing but an ironic post that can maybe make us think about our caring about ratings that we almost unanimously consider as not a true measure of our talent. Or maybe we can just take it as a good joke. Or a bad one. Either way, it doesn't deserve the too serious response it has gotten.
That is all on you and your desire to continue the arguments endlessly, rather than to accept the obvious differences in approaches and beliefs. LC, for example, is guilty of that in my opinion, yet he does it very openly so you don't need to guess things with him. The jabs he throws are obvious, yet somehow still not too serious, as they seem more like a heat of the moment things to me, except of course when it comes to one particular person here. For some others here, it takes a lot of heated discussion and arguing for them to come out of their protective shells and show their true opinions.
I'll take Simon as another example. He is almost universally considered a nice guy here and I will second that opinion strongly. Yet, in my opinion, he is just as entrenched in his own beliefs and system of thinking as LC. I have read many of his posts here and in other threads, and his balanced, "middle ground" approach is quite clear, and he will push it strongly in many discussions. They are both good persons, judging by everything I have seen here, just in a different way.
For the fairness of the whole post, I could take myself, the annoying new guy who inserts himself everywhere even if he started writing half a year ago and started posting even more recently than that. The list goes on, I am aware , yet I am sure I am not guilty or these arguments for the sake of argument. Maybe that is because I haven't been here long enough to create sufficient history or enmity to perpetuate some things, but when I do eventually get there, I hope somebody will be so kind to tell me to chill the fuck out

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, above, but the problem is you are presenting a false choice. One doesn't have to choose between heroic defiance of all people's opinions on the one hand and craven people pleasing on the other. You can choose to get whatever you want about the feedback. I have exactly the same opinion of much of the feedback I get that you do: it's uninformed, useless crap. But not all of it is. I see it as extremely noisy data. You have to sift out the noise to get anything useful from it, but it's not useless.

I feel like I can do both things and do not have to choose. It should be fairly clear from my history of comments in this forum that I have some very strong personal opinions about how I like to write, and I stick by them. But I also value people's opinions. One doesn't have to choose.

I did mention somewhere the 'rare exception' of an insightful comment. In general I would take those more seriously than a rating, even if the comment isn't glowing, but the criticism is solidly presented. Those can make you think on what you wrote, hence helpful.

But I don't know why you don't see the point that this topic was aimed at the craven people pleasers-and in that case that would mean people who will toss anything into a story if feedback, or conversations here, indicate that readership likes that, and have traded in writing their 'true' story in for a red H. Or just being so nuts over it that they know what every score on their page is at any time and if it went down or up or...that has to be tiring and frustrating if you take it too seriously

So I'm not presenting the lit version of would you rather, I'm warning against getting carried away and used what is probably the best example on the site of someone who just seems focused on their work and can tune out the noise. I think you're trying to find the balance, as you always do, but other felt attacked because they apparently feel the topic of downplaying scores diminishes them, and corny as it sounds, only you can diminish yourself, no one has to take anything anyone says here as sooth.

But to continuously argue about it and get nasty just starts to give off the entire projection vibe of insecurity. "LC thinks my H's are irrelevant, get him guys!"

Blessed be the interwebz

 

[lovecraft68]

Wow, that poster got zapped in no time. Account was dated 2021 so not an obvious sock puppet.
Guess giving feedback to someone here who has been judging other people's work is frowned upon.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Wow, that poster got zapped in no time. Account was dated 2021 so not an obvious sock puppet.
Guess giving feedback to someone here who has been judging other people's work is frowned upon.

Who are we talking about?

 

[lovecraft68]

Who are we talking about?

I think the name was Good something, and he quoted Voboy talking about mediocre stories and said he was mediocre and included a line from one his stories and picked it apart to prove a point about being subjective.

It wasn't overly nasty, but maybe someone here too offense and reported it because you can't wipe your own account that quick. I clicked on the name right after the post and it already showed member couldn't be found. That was like lightning striking.

 

[djrip]

I saw that post. Are there rules against writing something like that? What the hell happened? Likewise with Tilan, was he banned? For annoying people? Or was a rule broken?

 

[Voboy]

I think the name was Good something, and he quoted Voboy talking about mediocre stories and said he was mediocre and included a line from one his stories and picked it apart to prove a point about being subjective.

It wasn't overly nasty, but maybe someone here too offense and reported it because you can't wipe your own account that quick. I clicked on the name right after the post and it already showed member couldn't be found. That was like lightning striking.

Huh. When was it posted? I’d have liked to have read it. I didn’t even get notified I’d been quoted.

I have no quarrel with anyone who thinks what I write is mediocre. I like Lit because literally any and every writer will find their audience.

 

[lovecraft68]

Huh. When was it posted? I’d have liked to have read it. I didn’t even get notified I’d been quoted.

I have no quarrel with anyone who thinks what I write is mediocre. I like Lit because literally any and every writer will find their audience.

I didn't note the time, but it was after Awkward's 10:56 post.

The Gist was he quoted you(part of your post) about subjectively mediocre stories, then he said you were just that and posted a line from one of your stories, I think sci fi and about a boat, the line said something looked like a stubby little dick, and later on a cancer and he sort of picked at it, but nothing nasty or out of line.

I'm wondering of the Mod is now seeing Tilan everywhere.

 

[lovecraft68]

I saw that post. Are there rules against writing something like that? What the hell happened? Likewise with Tilan, was he banned? For annoying people? Or was a rule broken?

I don't think what they posted was a problem, but someone did. Tilan was wiped because he was insulting and trolling everyone and getting nastier and nastier, then kept saying he wanted to be banned, so he was. He keeps coming back with other names and I think a couple of those got zapped too.

This person's account was 2021 but only 8 posts. When I tried to click to see their other posts it said they were already gone and when I clicked back so was the post.

 

[Voboy]

I didn't note the time, but it was after Awkward's 10:56 post.

The Gist was he quoted you(part of your post) about subjectively mediocre stories, then he said you were just that and posted a line from one of your stories, I think sci fi and about a boat, the line said something looked like a stubby little dick, and later on a cancer and he sort of picked at it, but nothing nasty or out of line.

I'm wondering of the Mod is now seeing Tilan everywhere.

Hmm. Probably “Ship of Theseus.” It was a story that did not hit at all, but I’ve always liked it. I’ll try to go back and search for that paragraph; he might have a point.

ETA: just checked. Neither "stubby" nor "cancer" shows up in that story.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That would actually be an idea for a really good thread here on AH. Taking a story and commenting heavily on it, picking it apart and analyzing stuff. It would be a great discussing and teaching material for many, I believe. People steer clear of those things and I understand why, but still it feels it could be so useful and many among us could learn a lot, I believe. There would be subjectivity and posturing and probably some jabs as well, but there would be some well meaning and objectively useful stuff, one would just need to sift through it.

 

[SimonDoom]

People here are being so argumentative for no real reason.

I confess I like a good argument. I don't take disagreement personally as long as you don't get personally nasty with me. I identify somewhat with the Michael Palin character in the famous Monty Python "Argument Clinic" sketch. I strongly recommend looking it up; you can find it online. It's funny and surprisingly insightful.

 

[Voboy]

That would actually be an idea for a really good thread here on AH. Taking a story and commenting heavily on it, picking it apart and analyzing stuff. It would be a great discussing and teaching material for many, I believe. People steer clear of those things and I understand why, but still it feels it could be so useful and many among us could learn a lot, I believe. There would be subjectivity and posturing and probably some jabs as well, but there would be some well meaning and objectively useful stuff, one would just need to sift through it.

Okay, found it. It's from one of my Pixy stories, "Mutiny." It won for the month.



Pixy waited impatiently, eyes welded to the chrono above the Main Dock with the shuttle sticking off the side of the Desperado like a stubby little dick. “Five minutes,” she muttered to the Boarding Officer. “Five fucking minutes, I want that thing off the ship.” It felt like a cancer, like a useless appendage. She turned irritably to her deputy. “Fuck. Where’s your buddy Mr Delmer? He and the captain are overdue to be aboard.”


I mean, that's out of context, but it's very much in keeping with the style of the rest of the stories. So, have at it, peeps! Roast me!

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I confess I like a good argument. I don't take disagreement personally as long as you don't get personally nasty with me. I identify somewhat with the Michael Palin character in the famous Monty Python "Argument Clinic" sketch. I strongly recommend looking it up; you can find it online. It's funny and surprisingly insightful.

I'll check it out definitely. I confess that, while being a big fan of English humor in general, (Only fools and horses, Black Adder), Monty Python I've always found so so. I do believe I was missing plenty of cultural references due to living somewhere else entirely

 

[lovecraft68]

Hmm. Probably “Ship of Theseus.” It was a story that did not hit at all, but I’ve always liked it. I’ll try to go back and search for that paragraph; he might have a point.

ETA: just checked. Neither "stubby" nor "cancer" shows up in that story.

I just checked out your page. Its right here. I remembered there being a letter after the chapter number. Very start of the story

https://www.literotica.com/s/dry-no-lube-ch-04b-mutiny

ETA looks like our posts crossed over. You're welcome for the view