We Get Gay Marriage in CA and all you can talk about is:

[gaymm]

Once again, you fail to understand the post you quoted. I did not say anywhere that I was an advocate of marriage in any way whatsoever, or that I wish to marry my partner.

I wish to have the same LEGAL rights that marriage confers to heterosexual couples. I do not care one whit if we stand before a priest and say "I do".

It is time for the governments to acknowledge that homosexuality is here, it has always been here and is here to stay. It is time for idiots, such as you, to acknowledge that we are the same as you and deserve the same treatment from government - whether in jobs, military or in marriage.

But, you want to protect something you can't even define and can't even give one reason it needs to be protected - other than some emotional "ruination of society".

If Homosexual marriage is going to ruin the world, I would like to know exactly how. If I have that kind of power - I want to find a way to channel it into something.

Well said kbate! But don't bother with the argument, some folks just can't get by their own mindset.

 

[kinkyknickers]

Okay, great I'm all for gay marriage but here's one along the same vein which can be devisive, even in the gay community. What about polygamy between consenting adults?

If gay marriage can be legalised why can't poly marriages be accepted?

Are there any gay or Bi people out there that are for gay marriage but against polygamy (bearing in mind I specified between consenting adults)?

KK

 

[Etoile]

Okay, great I'm all for gay marriage but here's one along the same vein which can be devisive, even in the gay community. What about polygamy between consenting adults?

If gay marriage can be legalised why can't poly marriages be accepted?

Are there any gay or Bi people out there that are for gay marriage but against polygamy (bearing in mind I specified between consenting adults)?

KK

My perspective on this is that legalizing poly marriage would require a radical reworking of marriage law and business operations. Right now, taxes are set up so you can file as single or couple. You'd have to rewrite the tax code to expand it for a three-way filing. Similarly, if one partner has benefits from a company, that company is prepared to offer benefits to one other person - not two or more.

Gay marriage doesn't require changing any of this. Everything is set up for two people, and that's what gay marriage is looking to achieve - a union of two people.

I am not opposed to legal recognition of poly relationships, but I don't think legalizing gay marriage will necessarily lead us down that road. They're different animals - one is about equality in an existing institution, the other is about changing that institution. (Gay marriage doesn't change marriage just because it's allowed for any gender.)

 

[none2_none2]

My perspective on this is that legalizing poly marriage would require a radical reworking of marriage law and business operations. Right now, taxes are set up so you can file as single or couple. You'd have to rewrite the tax code to expand it for a three-way filing. Similarly, if one partner has benefits from a company, that company is prepared to offer benefits to one other person - not two or more.

Gay marriage doesn't require changing any of this. Everything is set up for two people, and that's what gay marriage is looking to achieve - a union of two people.

I am not opposed to legal recognition of poly relationships, but I don't think legalizing gay marriage will necessarily lead us down that road. They're different animals - one is about equality in an existing institution, the other is about changing that institution. (Gay marriage doesn't change marriage just because it's allowed for any gender.)

I'm at a loss for words which is normally not the case for me. You are very correct.

I would add that usually when the subject of gay marriage comes up here (around where I live), there are always comparisons to bestiality and polygamy. They are always brought up by anti-gay rights people -- not by suffering people who are either zoos or polygamists.

 

[Tymeless]

My perspective on this is that legalizing poly marriage would require a radical reworking of marriage law and business operations. Right now, taxes are set up so you can file as single or couple. You'd have to rewrite the tax code to expand it for a three-way filing. Similarly, if one partner has benefits from a company, that company is prepared to offer benefits to one other person - not two or more.

Gay marriage doesn't require changing any of this. Everything is set up for two people, and that's what gay marriage is looking to achieve - a union of two people.

I am not opposed to legal recognition of poly relationships, but I don't think legalizing gay marriage will necessarily lead us down that road. They're different animals - one is about equality in an existing institution, the other is about changing that institution. (Gay marriage doesn't change marriage just because it's allowed for any gender.)

Wow you hit that right on I didn't even think about it that way. I was going to just say I'm cool with it and I really am cool with polygamy if thats what the consenting adults decide on but with tax laws and benefits set up the way they are I can see how that would change everything. Now if we had universal health care in the states then the benefits thing wouldn't be an issue.

I'm at a loss for words which is normally not the case for me. You are very correct.

I would add that usually when the subject of gay marriage comes up here (around where I live), there are always comparisons to bestiality and polygamy. They are always brought up by anti-gay rights people -- not by suffering people who are either zoos or polygamists.

That is so true. I never hear zoos or polygamist saying well what about me yadda yadda yadda if they get their rights I want mine too.

 

[none2_none2]

Now that I'm doing some farming, there are some things that I find troublesome. My partner explained to me that excess males are expendable in agriculture. They don't make eggs and they don't make milk,etc. Plus it only takes about one to fertilize a group of females.

With that in mind, traditional polygamy is about one human male with multiple human females. What happens to the surplus of males in such a subculture? I would think a lot of sexually frustrated males would lead to more fighting and violence. Though males have been known to engage in homosexual conduct in the absence of females to relieve tension. That behavior is normally a short term deal. Even though I'm attracted to males, I don't think I would want to live in a society with lots of heterosexually frustrated males out there with little hope of acquiring a wife or girlfriend. It may be some gay guy's fantasy to ease their tension, but sometimes a fantasy isn't as great when it becomes a reality.

 

[Tymeless]

Now that I'm doing some farming, there are some things that I find troublesome. My partner explained to me that excess males are expendable in agriculture. They don't make eggs and they don't make milk,etc. Plus it only takes about one to fertilize a group of females.

With that in mind, traditional polygamy is about one human male with multiple human females. What happens to the surplus of males in such a subculture? I would think a lot of sexually frustrated males would lead to more fighting and violence. Though males have been known to engage in homosexual conduct in the absence of females to relieve tension. That behavior is normally a short term deal. Even though I'm attracted to males, I don't think I would want to live in a society with lots of heterosexually frustrated males out there with little hope of acquiring a wife or girlfriend. It may be some gay guy's fantasy to ease their tension, but sometimes a fantasy isn't as great when it becomes a reality.

I believe this is partly why the female of the species is wired the way she is and the male is wired the way he is when it comes to general stereotypes. Males are wired to want to procreate and spread their genes with as many as possible. Of course this is just a stereotype and not true across the board. The woman is wired to want to find the ideal mate to protect and support her young. Again this is just a stereotype and not true across the board, but as you can see thats why males will probably never been expendable because in the end most want someone to call their own and they don't want to share with others. Though there are plenty of people thats not true with.

I agree though that heterosexual men without women is a very very bad thing because throughout history sexually frustrated men have done many of bad things.

 

[none2_none2]

Yes there are exceptions to every rule. I just would think that polygamy isn't as free of issues inside or outside the arrangement. I would think not only the issue of groups of sexually denied males, but also the push to get females to the males even if they may not want to or are too young. If someone really wants that, one can argue that they should be free to enter in such relationships. I just cannot imagine it being that great of an arrangement. Perhaps that is because when I have been close to such a plural gay relationship situation, I was usually the odd-man-out. But another part of me is just a detached observer, and it just seems unworkable. Monogamy is not easy by any means.

I think the added issue with us non-heterosexuals is it isn't as easy to define "family". Most heterosexuals can reproduce and thus a relationship can expand to having children, extending the family to other relative and friends who have families or the older generation to give advice or help out.

Where as gay relationships, children aren't so easily part of the picture. If you bring in other people to that basic unit, then many people both gay and straight associate that there must be sex going on. Thus we have kind of been put in a place where sex bonds us since blood does not. For example, when I was younger (in my late 20's early 30's) and single, I had a gay friend who was dating a guy who recently had come out. The other guy couldn't move in with my friend until the summer was over. Thus my friend asked if I could rent a room to his boyfriend. Two weeks later my friend dumped him. The guy ended up living with me for about 2-3 years. Most of my gay friends assumed we were having sex. Guys that I were having sex with wanted to have sex with him. (That didn't happen as that isn't what I wanted, nor my roommate who was kind of ashamed of the whole gay thing -- especially when he fell in love, came out for my friend, and got dumped a few months later by him.) The guy became like an older brother/uncle to me, and I was so hurt when he left. I kept my mouth shut as we both knew there was no real future for him in the town I lived in. I wouldn't have minded having him part of my family indefinitely. There was much love but not of a sexual nature. He went back home to the eastern US, and lives with a married couple. There isn't anything sexual, and no one thinks anything hot an kinky about his current living arrangement. He has been with them for about 18 years now. (Gosh, I'm getting really old!) He is just a member of their family. It is too bad that the same couldn't be thought when he was living with me. Some of that we can blame the larger culture, but another big part of it is our own subculture. There is so much emphasis on sexuality. I have had so few friends that weren't sexualized at least at the beginning. The ones that weren't were not because the particular guy wasn't "my type", but rather because I valued their friendships too much to even want to go down that path given that until my partner now, no relationship lasted for any long period of time. It would be nice if we could be good friends with others of our subculture and not feel like it has to be sexual unless the person isn't our sexual "type".

 

[Bystander]

i always wondered that once gay marriage is legalized what the divorce rates will be when compared to hetero couples I personally never understood the opposition to gay marriage anyway. What's the big deal? There is no sanctity or marriage, not when so many people end up getting divorced. It doesn't seem like people take it seriously enough anyway to make it worth "protecting," if that is the argument someone is going to use to deny same sex couple that right.

I'm happy that it finally passed in Cali. I know that the opposition is trying to get the constitution ammended to ban it but I believe recent polls showed that most people were against this action so that's more good news.

 

[thetwolezz]

Early morning obviously clouded thoughts by me!

Okay, great I'm all for gay marriage but here's one along the same vein which can be devisive, even in the gay community. What about polygamy between consenting adults?

If gay marriage can be legalised why can't poly marriages be accepted?

Are there any gay or Bi people out there that are for gay marriage but against polygamy (bearing in mind I specified between consenting adults)?

KK

I think what you are asking is, "are there any homos out there that are two-faced"? I mean, basically, some people think that since we want to be married legally in our state that we should agree with others being married. Although I am unsure how I feel about polygamy, I can tell you that it has nothing to do with homosexuals, a couple, wanting to be married. However, if more than two homosexuals want to marry one another, then, there ya go, you have polygamy. But I do not think that is what homosexuals are striving for.
I would also like to add, because gays have had to dealw ith so much prejudice and hate, we tend to be open to others ways of life.

But...as a refreshing thought, I think if we took the right of heterosexuals to be married legally, many would be much happier (divorce rates).

 

[thetwolezz]

i always wondered that once gay marriage is legalized what the divorce rates will be when compared to hetero couples I personally never understood the opposition to gay marriage anyway. What's the big deal? There is no sanctity or marriage, not when so many people end up getting divorced. It doesn't seem like people take it seriously enough anyway to make it worth "protecting," if that is the argument someone is going to use to deny same sex couple that right.

I'm happy that it finally passed in Cali. I know that the opposition is trying to get the constitution ammended to ban it but I believe recent polls showed that most people were against this action so that's more good news.

Everyone deserves to withstand an unhappy marriage, even homos!

 

[thetwolezz]

I believe this is partly why the female of the species is wired the way she is and the male is wired the way he is when it comes to general stereotypes. Males are wired to want to procreate and spread their genes with as many as possible. Of course this is just a stereotype and not true across the board. The woman is wired to want to find the ideal mate to protect and support her young. Again this is just a stereotype and not true across the board, but as you can see thats why males will probably never been expendable because in the end most want someone to call their own and they don't want to share with others. Though there are plenty of people thats not true with.

I agree though that heterosexual men without women is a very very bad thing because throughout history sexually frustrated men have done many of bad things.

Very intelligent.

 

[kinkyknickers]

I'm at a loss for words which is normally not the case for me. You are very correct.

I would add that usually when the subject of gay marriage comes up here (around where I live), there are always comparisons to bestiality and polygamy. They are always brought up by anti-gay rights people -- not by suffering people who are either zoos or polygamists.

And that is why you shouldn't judge those you don't know....
I am in a very loving and commited relationship with a woman and a man. I am polyamorous. I can't be a polygamist because it is illeagal in my country, as in most countries.
Since I am, and always have been, bisexual, I don't suppose I can be anti-gay rights, since I would be anti-me.
I was merely asking for perspective.
It's pretty hard being poly, even in this day and age. Take yourself back about 50 years to think of what it might have felt like to be gay and wanting to come out in the 1950's and maybe you'll see what I'm feeling right now.

That was pretty harsh. But at least it reminds me that if my lifestyle can't be taken seriously in a forum like this, thn it's best to keep it on the DL in all other aspects for the moment. Maybe in 50 years time......

 

[thetwolezz]

And that is why you shouldn't judge those you don't know....
I am in a very loving and commited relationship with a woman and a man. I am polyamorous. I can't be a polygamist because it is illeagal in my country, as in most countries.
Since I am, and always have been, bisexual, I don't suppose I can be anti-gay rights, since I would be anti-me.
I was merely asking for perspective.
It's pretty hard being poly, even in this day and age. Take yourself back about 50 years to think of what it might have felt like to be gay and wanting to come out in the 1950's and maybe you'll see what I'm feeling right now.

That was pretty harsh. But at least it reminds me that if my lifestyle can't be taken seriously in a forum like this, thn it's best to keep it on the DL in all other aspects for the moment. Maybe in 50 years time......

That's a perspective I've not thought of before. It's good to hear from you.

 

[Bill3250]

sucking cock, cumming on tits, and your first anal experience?

Just wow.

Most of the gays I know are already married....to members of the opposite sex. I'm including bisexuals, of course.

 

[none2_none2]

...
It's pretty hard being poly, even in this day and age. Take yourself back about 50 years to think of what it might have felt like to be gay and wanting to come out in the 1950's and maybe you'll see what I'm feeling right now.

That was pretty harsh. But at least it reminds me that if my lifestyle can't be taken seriously in a forum like this, thn it's best to keep it on the DL in all other aspects for the moment. Maybe in 50 years time......

First of all, being a 48 yo means I can take myself back quite a ways. Things have only changed in some areas -- meaning geographically as well as certain venues. Just so you know, I'm not that out. That is why I like online discourse such as Literotica where there is a bit more anonymity. Would I want to be kicked out of my church? Would I want to loose my job? Would I want to feel uncomfortable in my own neighborhood? No. Those are things that most gay people have to worry about even in 2008.

There is no across the board rights for gay people -- at least not in the US. What progress has been made has been in spurts and then setbacks too. All you need to do to get elected here is to be against gay marriage. My state alone passed the anti-gay marriage amendment by about 71%. Not even abortion which in the minds of some of the same people is murder would ever be defeated by such wide margins. What does that tell you when a conservative is more worried about seeingn two tuxedos or two wedding gowns than that which they themselves decry as murder? If it wasn't for the anti-war sentiment right now and the high fuel prices, then the Republican party would simply bring up the marriage amendment to the US Constitution, and they would get droves of people back as part of their party faithful.

I may not shut all the windows and turn the radio on low (or TV) when I listen to gay radio shows such as the "10th Voice", "This way out", or "In the life". However, that is more out of realizing that the neighbors probably don't hear it anyway from that distance -- not because they have suddenly became more tolerant over the last few years. I have never even let the neighbor brothers who mowed my lawn for the last 12 years enter my house. I would never want to give anybody fuel to say. "I think that guy is gay, and he has let young, impressionable boys into his home." When they need payment, I come outside, and write out a check in broad daylight where anybody can clearly see there is no hanky panky.

Also keep in mind that even among sexual minorities, there is still an aversion to whatever constitutes "really" gay. Just read most of the forums on Lit where male bisexuality is discussed, and there is all this talk about only being attracted to cock-- but still REALLY straight. Imagine if a gay man said they were REALLY gay, but loved fondling female breasts as long as the female is behind a burka as they find the rest of the female body unattractive. Or imagine a lesbian saying she loves women, but can appreciate a penis as long as she has gloves to wear and the guy has a bag over his unattractive face. Any such comments from a gay person would be laughed as a joke. Yet it is pretty common from people who want to continue to be considered part of the "norm" to put any same sex activity that they engage in as not in any way implying that they are "gay". That tells me that there is still a lot of revulsion to even being considered gay.

My original comment was simply stating that Etoile eloquently explained the difference between gay marriage and poly marriage. "If" I do any judging I do it based on my own personal experiences -- not from pre-conceived comments that others have told me about polys. All the polys I have known were gay males with the exception of one str8 male. I couldn't relate to any of the ones I met at all. One in particular (bi/gay with a wife and a male BF) really pissed me off. His male partner and I were in a really interesting discussion about our love of SciFi.
There was nothing sexual about it, and I hadn't initiated the conversation. Anyway the guy was rather rude and infantile as it was more urgent for him to get off with his male partner right then than any conversation that the two of us might be engaged in. (If it had been his wife, then I might have thought that they were on some fertility planning which required sex on the spur of the moment. Obviously, that wasn't the case here.) The one heterosexual example I have is my uncle. My half-sisters both said that he was polyamorous because he had a bigger heart than most men and too intelligent for any one woman. (It is amazing how with a little charm, people will buy any thing -- including relatives.) Personally, I found him a little shallow and any of that "bigger heart" was reserved for whatever woman he could add to his doll collection.

Does that mean I'm judging every poly? I don't think so. I'm just saying that all the ones I have dealt with (all male, all but one gay), I couldn't relate to. That doesn't mean I want polys thrown in jail, killed, maimed or any of the other things that humans have done to other humans because they are different. I have also learned that many of the feelings that gay people said were unique to them: isolation, rejection, etc. really aren't if you listen to others stories. Having been involved in 12 step for sexual addition in the past, I could see that humans actually have more in common (both the good and the bad) than we want to admit. Some of the stories from our straight memberships were just as touching as those of our gay members.

 

[kinkyknickers]

I'm sorry to hear your experiences with polys were negative. Truth is I haven't had too much face to face time with any polys other than those that I've been in a relationship with.

Anyone saying that they have a bigger heart or are more open minded because they are comitted to more than one person is a fool. A relationship is a very personal thing and as such, a person's views shouldn't influence another's lovelife, which they all too often do (I feel the same way about religions).

My views come purely form where I live, which is Australia. I have plenty of openly gay friends, many with kids, none trying to hide their sexuality. I'm not saying that Aus is some kind of gay utopia, but it sounds a bit better than your neck of the woods, none2_none2. Which is why I can't understand why it's so socially unacceptable to be poly. Dare I say, we may get compared to Mormans (I don't really have a problem with them each to there own, but child marriage brings the whole poly thing down)?

Yes, I suppose Etoile did hit the nail on the head as far as the legalities are concerned. But, I dunno. It still rubs me the wrong way.

Ce la vie. I made my knig size bed, I shall lie in it (with my boyfriend and my girlfriend)!

KK

 

[satindesire]

sucking cock, cumming on tits, and your first anal experience?

Just wow.

Although part of me agrees with you. this IS a porn site. What else did you expect? News isn't always arousing and sexy, even if it's good news.