We got your Death Panel: The Democrat Party

[Byron In Exile]

so your parents were the ones spitting on returning vets screaming BABY KILLER I see

I don't think Britain sent any troops to Vietnam.

 

[Wok]

The defenders of murder doth protest too loudly.

Abortion on demand will be in the final bill as will the funding for it.

No one can stop the Democrats.

All they are doing right now is a dance to cover a few seats. Ben Nelson gets to be on the record as for life, he gets his amendment, the Party gets the sixty votes and then when they only need 50 votes, Ben (and Mary and 8 others) gets to vote against the bill with the Republicans so they can't run ads against him.

Mark my words, the culture of death wants this "death panel" in the "Health Insurance" reform bill to ensure that its constituency can keep legs wide open without consequence.

A Death Panel of one...

This is just the Senate version to be sure, and once it goes back to get reconciled, it is not going to be easy. Some want the public option, some want abortions to be added, some do not want one or the other. The negotiations should be interesting to see.

Putting that aside, I am still having trouble finding where in this Senate bill where abortions are covered. I am still searching, so maybe it is buried in there somewhere.

 

[Wok]

You are quite right. The current bill, with the Nelson amendment, prohibits a plan from even offering abortion services to anyone. You have to get an abortion rider (additional policy) and pay separately (about $50/month) with a separate check to get coverage.

Interesting that that is still not enough for misogynist control freaks like AJ.

Well, I cannot speak for AJ, so I will leave that to AJ to decide what he wants.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

This is just the Senate version to be sure, and once it goes back to get reconciled, it is not going to be easy. Some want the public option, some want abortions to be added, some do not want one or the other. The negotiations should be interesting to see.

Putting that aside, I am still having trouble finding where in this Senate bill where abortions are covered. I am still searching, so maybe it is buried in there somewhere.

The negotiations will not be where you can see them.

History is calling. The Democratic Party will rally to history and pass anything, no matter how horrendous in the belief that there's no going back and it can be added to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Schip as one of the thing Republicans want to take away from the 51% who live at the expense of everyone else.

Like in Europe, they see this bill as a road to uninterrupted permanent majorities in government as the party that provides "security" for the people.

The language of Abortion, is according to Alinsky, put in terms that the middle class cannot argue with; "Women's Reproductive Health."
__________________
“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.”
Frederic Bastiat

 

[Wok]

The negotiations will not be where you can see them.

History is calling. The Democratic Party will rally to history and pass anything, no matter how horrendous in the belief that there's no going back and it can be added to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Schip as one of the thing Republicans want to take away from the 51% who live at the expense of everyone else.

Like in Europe, they see this bill as a road to uninterrupted permanent majorities in government as the party that provides "security" for the people.

The language of Abortion, is according to Alinsky, put in terms that the middle class cannot argue with; "Women's Reproductive Health."
__________________
“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.”
Frederic Bastiat

That is all fair and good, but your NRO link said abortions are covered in this bill. I still cannot find it in the bill.

So is what you are saying is abortions will be allowed in the final bill at some point, or has such a procedure been given the nod now? No matter, I will just look some more...

And yes, as for the negotiations, they have been behind closed doors. That, in my opinion, is pretty shitty.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

That is all fair and good, but your NRO link said abortions are covered in this bill. I still cannot find it in the bill.

So is what you are saying is abortions will be allowed in the final bill at some point, or has such a procedure been given the nod now? No matter, I will just look some more...

Who knows what is in this bill?

That's the plan...
__________________
The essence of a dictator’s method is not to write harsh laws and enforce them rigidly. The world’s most destructive thugs have wanted something different. They have wanted to impose their wills on a compliant populace using arbitrary power — power not limited by laws or constitution, but power that was open-ended, ill-defined, and could be expanded based on the whims of the moment.

Well-written laws are the enemy of the dictator. As philosopher Ayn Rand put it, “When men are united by ideas, i.e., by explicit principles, there is no room for favors, whims, or arbitrary power: the principles serve as an objective criterion for determining actions and for judging men, whether leaders or members.” Laws, properly formulated, are based on principles, and serve to translate those principles into firm criteria for judging particular cases. What a dictator wants is to be free of such principles and to use his power as he wishes.
John David Lewis

 

[busybody..]

That is all fair and good, but your NRO link said abortions are covered in this bill. I still cannot find it in the bill.

So is what you are saying is abortions will be allowed in the final bill at some point, or has such a procedure been given the nod now? No matter, I will just look some more...

And yes, as for the negotiations, they have been behind closed doors. That, in my opinion, is pretty shitty.

dummy

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=11010

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Thank Gawd that woman ain't in KANSAS anymore...

 

[Wok]

Who knows what is in this bill?

That's the plan...
__________________
The essence of a dictator’s method is not to write harsh laws and enforce them rigidly. The world’s most destructive thugs have wanted something different. They have wanted to impose their wills on a compliant populace using arbitrary power — power not limited by laws or constitution, but power that was open-ended, ill-defined, and could be expanded based on the whims of the moment.

Well-written laws are the enemy of the dictator. As philosopher Ayn Rand put it, “When men are united by ideas, i.e., by explicit principles, there is no room for favors, whims, or arbitrary power: the principles serve as an objective criterion for determining actions and for judging men, whether leaders or members.” Laws, properly formulated, are based on principles, and serve to translate those principles into firm criteria for judging particular cases. What a dictator wants is to be free of such principles and to use his power as he wishes.
John David Lewis

Now, wait just a moment. The NRO quote said the current bill allows for abortions. Obviously they read the bill, right? I have not read the whole thing, and I am just starting to read the shit now to see what the hell is going on here. Either it is in there or it is not.

If it is going to be negotiated at some point to allow it, then yeah, that would make sense. So is this about the current Senate bill, or the final bill? As in your argument (if I am understanding you correctly), Nelson is simply playing the part of pro-life. Alright, maybe he is. I cannot argue that point, because I do not know his motives.

confused in Jerkinatorland

 

[Wok]

dummy

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=11010

Thanks for the link. I will read it now. And yes, I am a dummy, and want to understand this better.

Edit: Read the link. Alright, so it is a shell game then. Hm, interesting.

 

[zipman]

The author is using that as the criteria for their argument.

You've stated that you post articles that you agree with.

Come on Marie, you can't eat your cake and have it too!

I must have missed your reply to this post.

Just like your explanation about how I'm a racist.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Now, wait just a moment. The NRO quote said the current bill allows for abortions. Obviously they read the bill, right? I have not read the whole thing, and I am just starting to read the shit now to see what the hell is going on here. Either it is in there or it is not.

If it is going to be negotiated at some point to allow it, then yeah, that would make sense. So is this about the current Senate bill, or the final bill? As in your argument (if I am understanding you correctly), Nelson is simply playing the part of pro-life. Alright, maybe he is. I cannot argue that point, because I do not know his motives.

confused in Jerkinatorland

I trust the editors at NRO to get it right over the legions of howling Democrats pulling links off their blog sites designed to cheerlead Obama to victory.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I must have missed your reply to this post.

Just like your explanation about how I'm a racist.

You are a racist. An Affirmative Action racist.

Try reading some of the posts I made to posters who want to have a conversation instead of trying to score points due to hurt feelings.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Thanks for the link. I will read it now. And yes, I am a dummy, and want to understand this better.

Edit: Read the link. Alright, so it is a shell game then. Hm, interesting.

That's what I've been saying: They are trying to tell us what we want to hear while at once getting what they want passed knowing that once they've pulled it off, our outrage will simply become sullen acceptance of that which we cannot fight, tyranny.
__________________
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
Cornelius Tacitus

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

The Executive power in our government is not the only, perhaps not even the principle, object of my solicitude. The Tyranny of the Legislature is really the danger most to be feared, and will continue to be so for many years to come. The Tyranny of the Executive power will come in its turn, but at a more distant time.
Thomas Jefferson


Score another one for the Founding Fathers.

 

[zipman]

You are a racist. An Affirmative Action racist.

Try reading some of the posts I made to posters who want to have a conversation instead of trying to score points due to hurt feelings.

How can I be an affirmative action racist when I'm against affirmative action?

Sorry A_J, but you can't hurt my feelings. I simply don't care about your opinion of me enough to allow anything you say to upset me.

I realize you get testy when you get called on your bullshit "mr. whendidIsaythat."

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Oh, 75% of your posts anymore are directed at me.




Look in the mirror and see the troll.

Wanna go back to that broken bone analogy?

You never did answer that...

 

[Wok]

I trust the editors at NRO to get it right over the legions of howling Democrats pulling links off their blog sites designed to cheerlead Obama to victory.

It is nice you trust them, but I have a hard time trusting.

 

[zipman]

Oh, 75% of your posts anymore are directed at me.

Look in the mirror and see the troll.

Wanna go back to that broken bone analogy?

You never did answer that...

How can anyone have a ratioal conversation with you when you refuse to address the posts made and simply deflect the conversation to anything that bashes democrats and liberals?

You continue to ignore the flawed argument of the opening post.

You refuse to acknowledge that you've stated how you post articles you agree with until they are challenged and then you play the "Ineversaidthat" card.

And your not even man enough to admit that your ridiculous claim about me being racist is false, even when the so called justiication for it is not a position I hold.

And you call me a troll? LMFAO!

 

[Wok]

That's what I've been saying: They are trying to tell us what we want to hear while at once getting what they want passed knowing that once they've pulled it off, our outrage will simply become sullen acceptance of that which we cannot fight, tyranny.
__________________
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
Cornelius Tacitus

I do not have a crystal ball. I am simply going by what has been negotiated so far. And it seems to me abortions are not covered in the current bill unless I am missing something. From the link bizzy posted, the claim is, it is a shell game when somewhere down the line, abortions will be covered anyway. I do not know if that will be the case or not, but interesting if true.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean]

Not at all, I'm quite proud of our Vietnam veterans. I only wish you could have been one of those misguided white people advising the Vietcong, we could have left your scrawny ass hanging on our wire as well, and we wouldn't have to read your drunken ass today.

BTW, unless you are using diacritics it's Vietnam, ya fucking retard.

Oh, I thought it was another manufactured CIA name. Just like Viet Cong.

Yeah, I can see Mai Lai appealing to you. Raping and murdering civilians seems to be an ongoing trait in the US military.

so your parents were the ones spitting on returning vets screaming BABY KILLER I see

Not too bright, are you Semen?

 

[Wok]

If you read my first post on the subject you'll see that I did ask the simple question...was it re-introduced? I was ignorant, that's why I asked the question. Do you think if I knew the fucking answer I would have asked the question?

I was confused as well, because the PDF file did not have a date on when it was written, so I thought maybe it was used then scrapped later. It is hard to tell when something like this is being negotiated, renegotiated, introduced, rejected, etc.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I do not have a crystal ball. I am simply going by what has been negotiated so far. And it seems to me abortions are not covered in the current bill unless I am missing something. From the link bizzy posted, the claim is, it is a shell game when somewhere down the line, abortions will be covered anyway. I do not know if that will be the case or not, but interesting if true.

There you have it. It doesn't have a public option either, but it provides the mechanism, which is what Obama told SEIU last year. We can't get the public option directly, so we have to take an indirect route. This bill is the camel's nose; control of the insurance industry by Federal regulation and bureaucracy which will be able to pass arbitrary rules and regulations that produce:

http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/22/the-states-failed-experiments


Similarly, abortion will be covered as will end of life issues which will be weighed against cost. As Hayek put it, it's one thing when private companies/entities limit your access, for you have recourse or the acceptance of fate, but when government does it to you you have no recourse and resentment.

 

[unregistered]