What do you guys think, Need Advice

[John Doe]

I read and I read and what stood out at me the most is this...

the topic is closed to discussion at home.

Scary to me...I just think if you are with someone and they act like the above, it isn't worth it. Two adults should be able to discuss a matter until it is resolved.

Sorry...not actually advice, but take a hard look at this "young" relationship, because you will 20 years from now, and then it maybe to late.

oh and I 2nd Q's remark...

Yes, it does seem they have a history of bad (or lack of) communication. Whether that is at least partially a cause of the problems they're having now or merely exacerbating them, I can't tell.

(and yes, I said "exacerbating" )

 

[deezire1900]

Bad communication is the root of many failed relationships.

:::I have been sick for a week and watching Dr. Phil:::
Thank God I am going back to work today.

 

[John Doe]

Bad communication is the root of many failed relationships.

:::I have been sick for a week and watching Dr. Phil:::
Thank God I am going back to work today.

"Yeah...how's that workin' out for ya?"

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Anyway, you know that Dr. Phil is smart and in the know when I agree with just about everything he says.

(The cool emoticon is sarcastic BTW)

 

[Soulfiregirl]

Dr. Phil is eeeeeeevil. lol.

 

[John Doe]

Dr. Phil is eeeeeeevil. lol.

*points* BLASPHEMER!

 

[WyldSpirit]

I read and I read and what stood out at me the most is this...

the topic is closed to discussion at home.

Scary to me...I just think if you are with someone and they act like the above, it isn't worth it. Two adults should be able to discuss a matter until it is resolved.

Sorry...not actually advice, but take a hard look at this "young" relationship, because you will 20 years from now, and then it maybe to late.

oh and I 2nd Q's remark...

Yeah, the bit about it being totally closed to discussion was what bugged me most and caused me to seek all of your advice in the first place. My original "plan" had been to let it sit for a few weeks and then try to find a way to reopen the discussion. It isn't that I'm demanding permission to go outside of the relationship (I'm not, if I was, it wouldn't have been an attempt at a discussion in the first place, it would have been a statement of intent "I'm going to do this, period") but, I do think that I need to require that my position be fully heard and that we have a complete discussion on the idea before he answers one way or the other.

Originally posted by Stuponfucious
Yes, it does seem they have a history of bad (or lack of) communication. Whether that is at least partially a cause of the problems they're having now or merely exacerbating them, I can't tell.

(and yes, I said "exacerbating" )

We actually usually have very good communication but, there really was no way that I could have forseen that Becky was going to move. As I stated in the previous post, I probably should have discussed this contigency with him, but, I guess I could ask all of you, do you discuss when you're in a relationship the "what ifs" of every possible scenario in which one partner might have a rash emotional response that might lead to a break down in communication beforehand? If so, than you are much much better at this dating thing than I am, or anyone else I know.

Anyway, I've got doctors appointment out of town tomorrow so I'll be at my mom's and didn't get home until late tonight, so I figure that gives him a few more days to kick it around in his brain, and have already told him when he made his "announcement" the other night that we'd talk about it more in a couple of days. So, I figure I'll ask him to set aside some "us" time. I figure at the very least he's open to a dialogue now.

Thanks again guys

 

[John Doe]

We actually usually have very good communication

Perhaps I'm wrong, and I know very little about your relationship, but based on what i've read, that does not seem to be the case. It was at least implied that when you 'freaked out' about the first threesome you had, that you shut down any possibility of it happening, including discussion about it.

 

[deezire1900]

So, I figure I'll ask him to set aside some "us" time. I figure at the very least he's open to a dialogue now.

I lost my last relationship to "me" time now theres this thing called "us" time...OMG, I am never going to find a partner!

Just kidding..it just sounded sweet when you said it.

 

[SweetErika]

A few things are occuring to me, Wyld. The first is that he may not fully understand what and why you're looking for. My husband encouraged me to have relationships "as long as you don't leave me for a woman" but last week when I mentioned something about wanting a loving relationship, he proclaimed he wasn't in favor of that. We sat down and talked this weekend...I explained exactly what I meant by "loving," we went through the implications and "what ifs" together, and he decided it was fine after all. Perhaps going through the possibilities with Fred would help as well...I think it was great to go over what a realtionship would mean in terms of time we'd spend together and what would happen if he became uncomfortable at any point.

I've heard SOME men change their opinions on this once they realize no girlfriend for you=no threesome for them. I'm not saying this is the case, but it might be something to explore...if there's absolutely no possibility of a threesome in the forseeable future (or maybe ever), would he still be in favor of a girlfriend?

If nothing else, it sounds like you need to assert your needs for open communication and let him know while it's fine to suggest shelving the issue for a period of time, shutting down is not an acceptable way to deal with you.

 

[John Doe]

I would like to apologize to Etoile and Netzach. Upon further review, I believe I did incorrectly interpret what they were saying.

 

[Soulfiregirl]

Originally posted by SweetErika

I've heard SOME men change their opinions on this once they realize no girlfriend for you=no threesome for them. I'm not saying this is the case, but it might be something to explore...if there's absolutely no possibility of a threesome in the forseeable future (or maybe ever), would he still be in favor of a girlfriend?

This is a VERY good point. My ex "changed" on me. When we first started dating, he was ok with me maybe dating a woman as well. But after a while, he was only ok with it if he could "watch". If I didn't want him involved then he was no longer ok with it. (even though I told him I'd be ok with him having a lady as well...but he didn't go for that either)

Remember girls.....men can sometimes change their mind on this. What was cool to them when they first met you can eventually become a threat to them..... (and no, I'm not bashing men, I'm just sayin'!)


Being bi can really suck sometimes. What the heck do you do when you're attracted to both? *sigh* If anyone has the answer, please let me and Wylde know because I sure as hell have no idea. lol.

Hang in there Wylde. I do hope your boyfriend is reopening communication with you about all of this. That's a good sign perhaps if he is.

 

[SweetErika]

This is a VERY good point. My ex "changed" on me. When we first started dating, he was ok with me maybe dating a woman as well. But after a while, he was only ok with it if he could "watch". If I didn't want him involved then he was no longer ok with it. (even though I told him I'd be ok with him having a lady as well...but he didn't go for that either)

Remember girls.....men can sometimes change their mind on this. What was cool to them when they first met you can eventually become a threat to them..... (and no, I'm not bashing men, I'm just sayin'!)


Being bi can really suck sometimes. What the heck do you do when you're attracted to both? *sigh* If anyone has the answer, please let me and Wylde know because I sure as hell have no idea. lol.

Hang in there Wylde. I do hope your boyfriend is reopening communication with you about all of this. That's a good sign perhaps if he is.

I'll tell you what you do...you find a partner who loves you for who you are and wants you to be true to yourself and happy. They're out there, but you might have to break some of your patterns to find them (at least I did).

 

[WyldSpirit]

It was at least implied that when you 'freaked out' about the first threesome you had, that you shut down any possibility of it happening, including discussion about it.

I'm not sure where you got this, but it wasn't this post, or any post by me, you actually sent me digging through the whole thread wondering if I'd posted about my first threesome ever (that's an interesting story in itself, but, a different thread) The only thing that I posted about anyone "freaking out" was him about the idea of me finding a girl initially, he and I haven't had a threesome, I haven't posted here about my first threesome and the little that I did say any discussion (or lack there of) about him and I having a threesome was that I didn't feel that we were ready for it and we hadn't discussed it much. Really, it's only come up in passing a few times, usually during sex which isn't a time when I'm going to stop what we're doing and say "Hey honey, we need to talk about that." Other than actually during sex it did come up in discussion I think maybe once at the very very beginning when we were getting to know each other as something that I had done. Honestly at the time, I thought this was going to just be a casual sex relationship, and the discussion was kind of to find out what his boundaries were. (I'm kind of a freak) But, I've never closed that or any other topic to discussion.

Sorry if I seemed a bit raw around the edges last post, I was really tired, and we've had a lot of other stress around here lately (in the middle of a move and my health isn't the best)

Originally posted by Soulfiregirl
Being bi can really suck sometimes. What the heck do you do when you're attracted to both? *sigh* If anyone has the answer, please let me and Wylde know because I sure as hell have no idea. lol.

Hang in there Wylde. I do hope your boyfriend is reopening communication with you about all of this. That's a good sign perhaps if he is

If I stumble on a better answer than Erika, I'll let you know

It is really sounding like he may have changed his mind again and this wasn't just a random thing that night, he did bring up in conversation "when you find another girlfriend" we haven't had a chance to actually sit down and discuss it at all. I was gone in Portland 2 nights and the one night I was supposed to be home I ended up having to take him to the emergency room with a broken foot, plus we're packing to move! (Needless to say it's been mildly stressful right now, lol)

Thanks again guys!

 

[Soulfiregirl]

Any updates girlie? Hope the move is going well.

 

[reddcutie]

just my opinion

from some hard-life circumstances---

most men are fine with the idea of their bisexual girlfriend having sex with another woman--until they fall in love with her...then the the situation changes from the excitement of picturing two women together and possibly getting to join in, to the potential threat of competion/loss of a mate...

 

[WyldSpirit]

Hey hey, nothing new really going on about this, we've been so busy with the move, and well, honestly, I've been a wuss. Seriously though, it feels like we haven't spent more than about five minutes together in the last week or so. We've got some major drive time together coming up this weekend when we move the rest of my stuff down out of storage from my mom's though (hour and a half each way alone in the car)

We are totally out of the other apartment, but, since it was just a studio, we don't have much furniture in this one (hence, getting my stuff out of storage) We should have it all done (or atleast here, is it ever really done?) by the end of this weekend, and I should be back to my normal posting amount by the end of next week

 

[Soulfiregirl]

I see. Keep us updated. *hug*

 

[funwdi]

How do you feel NOW? That is the real question
What I mean by this is: yeah, it's awesome being in love, but then there comes a time where your inner true feelings come into play. If you are wanting a female partner to enhance that side of your life, then you don't really want to be monogamous, do you? And that's okay...you DID mention that in the beginning. You have to weight the pros and cons, and see if he is making you inhibit feelings for the same sex. Eventually, those wants and desires will over-rule any other feelings. What you have to decide is this...do you REALLY want to be in a monogamous relationship? If you DO, then you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You will have to decide and sacrifice another side of you. If you want to have both wonderful sides of life, ie. man and women, then you do NOT want to ever be monogamous. Unless you only want it in your fantasies.

I wish you luck, and please continue posting!

 

[PanosGreece]

Basically I think that he was just doing it to get back at you..but since this has continued:
Why do you think of yourself first and then of him?
If you only see it one way why should your fantasy be fulfilled and his not?
Also why don't you think of the reasons that you don't want to have a threesome(that is, only a night with sex) and then compare it to his forbidding you to have a 'relationship' with a girl too(that is more permanent that a one-night threesome).
You say you are in love with him, and I don't have a doubt you are saying the truth(why wouldn't you anyway?) but if you really think about it maybe your relationship with another woman sounds TOO scary for him.He is after all in love with you,isn't he?Maybe he is afraid he'll lose you.
Another fair possibility is that he is testing you(though not as possible).
You told him that you didn't think your relationship would survive a threesome so he wants to see if it will survive this.I think your man is starting to be serious about your relationship.But anyway what would I know? I'm just 19!

My opinion/advice:Grab onto him well.with discussion all will be well.And men are always up for discussion despite the fact that we often say no and act as if that is the end of it.Don't ask for more in every chance you have.You are lucky to have a nice relationship going.Don't push it and bring up the subject again when you see fit.I'm sure in the end he will acceptor he may make you change your mind!

 

[SweetErika]

...

I'm not speaking for Wyld, but I see the situation far differently.

"Why do you think of yourself first and then of him?"
I don't think that's the case at all. If she wasn't thinking of him first, she wouldn't have asked for permission...she'd have told him she was going to, or just done it secretly.

"If you only see it one way why should your fantasy be fulfilled and his not?"
As wonderful as the idea of fairness is, maybe the relationship can't withstand certain things. My marriage can handle me having relationships with women, but as much as I hate to admit it, atrue threesome or my husband being involved with others would likely destroy it in no time flat. Everything can't always be perfectly equal...you have to be willing and able to be flexible and compromise.

"Also why don't you think of the reasons that you don't want to have a threesome(that is, only a night with sex) and then compare it to his forbidding you to have a 'relationship' with a girl too(that is more permanent that a one-night threesome).
You say you are in love with him, and I don't have a doubt you are saying the truth(why wouldn't you anyway?) but if you really think about it maybe your relationship with another woman sounds TOO scary for him.He is after all in love with you,isn't he?Maybe he is afraid he'll lose you."
I agree somewhat, but if the relationship is built on honesty, communication, love, and trust, he should take her word on not being able to handle a threesome right now, and believe any promises she makes regarding her potential relationships with women (e.g. not leaving him for a woman). I guess I'd understand his feelings a little more if he didn't know she was bi in the first place, but he did, and it seems he wants to change the rules at will instead of seeking information and having an adult discussion about it.

 

[PanosGreece]

I don't think that's the case at all. If she wasn't thinking of him first, she wouldn't have asked for permission...she'd have told him she was going to, or just done it secretly.
Actually I disagree.If she did it secretly or without asking she wouldn't be thinking about him at all.But here it is like-
"I don't think I can do the sacrifice of not having relationship with a woman at the same time, so he is the one that should try and accept this."
(Correct me if I'm wrong Wyld)
I'm not trying to make her feel guilty but even though it means something to her, maybe she has to make this sacrifice..anyway it depends on how serious she is in her relationship with him.Also by connecting "I'm bisexual" with "Would you see it possible for me to be in a relationship with a woman at the same time?" is a dangerous combo that alerts the man of breaking up.Also he may feel that he doesn't cover Wyld's needs(too bad he doesn't as it seems).
Also:
My marriage can handle me having relationships with women, but as much as I hate to admit it, atrue threesome or my husband being involved with others would likely destroy it in no time flat.
What do you mean by 'a true threesome'.like a three-way relationship?...
I thought that Wyld's boyfriend meant a one-night-stand threesome..
Sorry but I can't see how this kind of threesome is more destructive than a paralell relationship..In the first there is no way that you will fall in love for the third person, but in the second, chances are that she could leave him if she thought that a woman satisfied her better, or was more open-minded than he was..
And lastly:
I agree somewhat, but if the relationship is built on honesty, communication, love, and trust, he should take her word on not being able to handle a threesome right now, and believe any promises she makes regarding her potential relationships with women (e.g. not leaving him for a woman). I guess I'd understand his feelings a little more if he didn't know she was bi in the first place, but he did, and it seems he wants to change the rules at will instead of seeking information and having an adult discussion about it.
We all say that when a relationship is built in honesty it works out better..and it does.but sometimes you just don't know what your life has in store for you.So what if she falls in love with that woman she decides to date?why should he risk something like that?when he accepted to date with her knowing that she was bi, maybe he didn't even think that it'd go that far, or he thought that the other 'relationship' would be ONLY physical.I don't think he REALLY doesn't want to discuss it.I'm sure he wants her to know how he feels.If not I guess that she made a wrong choice..
-I'm a little confused so if you see me misunderstanding something say so
These conversations are MUCH better face-to-face....:\
So Wyld where do you see yourself in two years with this guy?
You do see yourself with him, don't you??
(sorry for speaking like you weren't there, but I thought it'd be better if I said my opinions regarding sweet_erika's post)
And do you think that my opinions are childish/don't apply to reality?..you are more experienced than me but still I think I made some good points in this..

 

[SweetErika]

Actually I disagree.If she did it secretly or without asking she wouldn't be thinking about him at all.But here it is like-
"I don't think I can do the sacrifice of not having relationship with a woman at the same time, so he is the one that should try and accept this."
(Correct me if I'm wrong Wyld)
I'm not trying to make her feel guilty but even though it means something to her, maybe she has to make this sacrifice..anyway it depends on how serious she is in her relationship with him.Also by connecting "I'm bisexual" with "Would you see it possible for me to be in a relationship with a woman at the same time?" is a dangerous combo that alerts the man of breaking up.Also he may feel that he doesn't cover Wyld's needs(too bad he doesn't as it seems).

(All of this is said with respect...I agree it's much easier to discuss in person)

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like that's an accurate representation of Wyld's ideas...as she said, she asked, not told. I know if my husband said "no" or expressed any discomfort with the situation, I'd stop the physical relationship with the woman because I love him and care about his feelings. I don't know how often you've been in this situation, but it's usually a question, not a demand.

I can see how easy it is to jump to the conclusion you're not satisfying your partner, but for me (and most of the bi women in a LTR with the opposite sex I've talked to), that's not the case at all. I/We desire different things from women and men, and so while a man can fulfill ALL of our desires for men, he can't and isn't expected to fulfill our needs for women. That's not very eloquent, but the point I'm trying to make is that they're completely separate, and usually don't have an impact on eachother.

What do you mean by 'a true threesome'.like a three-way relationship?...

By a "true threesome" I mean one in which my husband participates in activities with the other woman. I don't see a huge problem with him watching or playing with me, but I feel seeing him with another woman would jeopardize our relationship. To be fair, we haven't discussed feelings and possibilities on this topic much, so I'm not sure he could truly handle seeing me with another woman either.

I thought that Wyld's boyfriend meant a one-night-stand threesome..
Sorry but I can't see how this kind of threesome is more destructive than a paralell relationship..In the first there is no way that you will fall in love for the third person, but in the second, chances are that she could leave him if she thought that a woman satisfied her better, or was more open-minded than he was..

And lastly:
We all say that when a relationship is built in honesty it works out better..and it does.but sometimes you just don't know what your life has in store for you.So what if she falls in love with that woman she decides to date?why should he risk something like that?when he accepted to date with her knowing that she was bi, maybe he didn't even think that it'd go that far, or he thought that the other 'relationship' would be ONLY physical.I don't think he REALLY doesn't want to discuss it.I'm sure he wants her to know how he feels.If not I guess that she made a wrong choice..
-I'm a little confused so if you see me misunderstanding something say so
These conversations are MUCH better face-to-face....:\

I understand you're bringing up his possible fears/objections, but it seems like a lot of people operate under the assumption that having a relationship with and loving more than one person romantically/polyamory is wrong, a bad idea, and will destroy the relationship. I might have agreed with you a year or two ago, but after thinking, researching, and talking to my husband and other people, I've come to realize it's not necessarily bad, and often it can be better for everyone involved.

 

[PanosGreece]

Hmm..I think I get your point..
So,basically, you are saying that even though having a relationship with another person at the same time with the 'serious relationship' sounds more dangerous and serious, the fact that your partner doesn't get to see you with the third person makes it easier to handle.And, the opposite goes for the threesome..that even though it sounds harmless next to a parallel relationship, actually seeing your partner being close with another person can be destructive..If that is what you meant I think I get it..maybe you are right after all...
And as for the fact that we, men, easily misinterpret your need for
something other than us, as a sign you show for our inability to fulfil your needs, it is mainly because we are insecure..Whatever we act like, we are always insecure in the end..we do understand you deep down..but...blame our selfishness
What I can't understand is:
-What would you say if your partner wanted a samesex relationship next to yours?
-Would it bother you seeing him being intimate with a man, just as you would be bothered if you saw him with a woman?
SweetErika you really know how to talk, don't you?I like how you always have a good reasoning in your opinions
From now on your my buddy..girl..whatever

 

[Etoile]

So,basically, you are saying that even though having a relationship with another person at the same time with the 'serious relationship' sounds more dangerous and serious, the fact that your partner doesn't get to see you with the third person makes it easier to handle.And, the opposite goes for the threesome..that even though it sounds harmless next to a parallel relationship, actually seeing your partner being close with another person can be destructive..If that is what you meant I think I get it..maybe you are right after all...

This is exactly what I'm going through. http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/bonk.gif

 

[Noor]

Okay this is coming from someone who was/is an outside third in a relationship:

Anytime you let someone new into your life on an intimate level (and maybe on any level) there is a risk to the primary relationship, even if you and the new someone don't see or plan it that way. The new person you pick is already someone your are attracted to, you may think they are safe because that are in a long term couple but feelings often don't care about logic or the boundaries you have set up.
I think going into it together is safer, but that is me. Your having an already established relationship with your casual gf when you met is different than getting a new one. The one you had was a known quantity, a new one isn't.

I think you have a few issues going on here:
communication within your primary relationship
whether the openness of relationship-ie would it be okay for him to get a casual gf too? If not, why not?
your need to be physically bi at this point