What does it mean when someone says an orgasm is not pleasurable?

[AG31]

I'm reading a fascinating book** of interviews with male "hustlers." (It's an old book, maybe the terminology is outdated.) There's a lot of talk about an orgasm not being pleasurable, and I'm reminded that I've seen this not infrequently on Lit, and probably before that too.

What does this mean? I thought an orgasm was inherently pleasurable. Is there such a thing as an unplearable erection? I don't recall anyone describing a female orgasm as not pleasurable, but is that a thing also?

Edit: I'd like to refine the question to ask about the physical sensation of an orgasm that is not pleasurable. How, physical-sensation-wise, does it differ from an orgasm that's pleasurable. I'm thinking that this is a good challenge for the writers here, because it's notoriously difficult to describe the sensations of an orgasm of any kind.

Just curious here.

** The Male Hustler: 7 Midnight Cowboys Tell their Stories by Lawrence Block writing as John Warren Wells, 1975

This book is fascinating because the interviews are quite lengthy and the interviewees are quite articulate. The structure is more like monologues than questions and answers.

 

[karina_jayde]

Considering the source is a book of interviews with hustlers, that might have something to do with their perception (but of course I haven't read the book, so can't comment on that directly). I can imagine orgasms reached as part of sex work may not be pleasurable or satisfying for some.

But there are lots of types of 'pleasure.' Something may be physically stimulating but emotionally unsatisfying, for example. And there are times when reaching an orgasm is like scratching an itch: a means to alleviate discomfort, rather than pleasure for pleasure's own sake. Orgasms while under the influence of drugs/alcohol (in my experience) are generally not that pleasurable. I certainly wouldn't call them pleasant or uncomfortable but the sensation of release was pretty minimal and almost unremarkable, depending on the context.

There are also situations where the climax itself can certainly be satisfying, but the context or aftermath may undercut the pleasure or cut it short. For example, a lot of people joke about 'post-nut clarity' settling in after consuming unusual pornography or hooking up with someone they shouldn't have. I myself have definitely had orgasms that were very pleasurable within the moment but immediately ruined by my mind catching up and dwelling on who I had sex with or what I'd masturbated to.

 

[Flybynite1892]

If I had to guess, I'd agree that an orgasm as part of sex work isn't as enjoyable or pleasant because, at the end of the day, it's still the job. So, I think that might be the answer in the context of the book (but of course, I haven't read it either).

In other contexts, though, there is the "ruined orgasm," which is more of a Dominance/submission technique in which the dominant partner uses certain methods to make the orgasm physically unsatisfying or frustrating for the submissive. It provides a physical orgasm with none of the pleasant sensation or mental relief. It often creates a sense of increased submission or helplessness in the submissive, which, of course, is what people are often after in those dynamics. I'd never describe it as "pleasant" in the moment though, and I haven't seen anyone claim it is either, lol. So that could be some of what you're seeing on Lit too, depending on the genre you're reading in.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

What does this mean? I thought an orgasm was inherently pleasurable. Is there such a thing as an unplearable erection? I don't recall anyone describing a female orgasm as not pleasurable, but is that a thing also?

I'm going to be frank here... I can tell you for a fact: Males can orgasm even without having an erection. And by that, I don't mean ED, I mean lack of arousal. Those orgasms do what they're supposed to physically... but they're basically the equivalent of eating a tasteless protein bar when hungry, instead of eating something tasty.

 

[PennyThompson]

If I had to guess, I'd agree that an orgasm as part of sex work isn't as enjoyable or pleasant because, at the end of the day, it's still the job. So, I think that might be the answer in the context of the book (but of course, I haven't read it either).

In other contexts, though, there is the "ruined orgasm," which is more of a Dominance/submission technique in which the dominant partner uses certain methods to make the orgasm physically unsatisfying or frustrating for the submissive. It provides a physical orgasm with none of the pleasant sensation or mental relief. It often creates a sense of increased submission or helplessness in the submissive, which, of course, is what people are often after in those dynamics. I'd never describe it as "pleasant" in the moment though, and I haven't seen anyone claim it is either, lol. So that could be some of what you're seeing on Lit too, depending on the genre you're reading in.

I put a spin on a ruined orgasm at the end of one of my stories, and it's one of my favorite bits I've ever written

 

[AG31]

Males can orgasm even without having an erection. And by that, I don't mean ED, I mean lack of arousal. Those orgasms do what they're supposed to physically.

You mean they ejaculate without an erection???? Or do you mean "lack of an erection that feels really good?"

 

[AG31]

I put a spin on a ruined orgasm at the end of one of my stories, and it's one of my favorite bits I've ever written

I may not have found the right place, but they certainly seemed to experience pleasure.

 

[PennyThompson]

I may not have found the right place, but they certainly seemed to experience pleasure.

It's at the end of the story. I've had both cis-male and transfem readers tell me it was... hmm... an accurate representation

 

[Flybynite1892]

It's at the end of the story. I've had both cis-male and transfem readers tell me it was... hmm... an accurate representation

Thanks for the recommendation lol. That was a fun read.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

You mean they ejaculate without an erection???? Or do you mean "lack of an erection that feels really good?"

Yes, I meant we can ejaculate without an erection, and even without arousal. The nerve endings are all there. We don't need erections to switch them on.

As for the pleasure-less orgasms... I know a few male prostitutes who told me they basically only get hard because of the pills they use. They... perform... until their body does their thing, but their head is basically somewhere else. And, if they feel any pleasure form it, it's so negligible they don't really realize it as such. One of them was also the one who gave me the protein bar example.

 

[Hipshot1554]

I'm reading a fascinating book** of interviews with male "hustlers." (It's an old book, maybe the terminology is outdated.) There's a lot of talk about an orgasm not being pleasurable, and I'm reminded that I've seen this not infrequently on Lit, and probably before that too.

What does this mean? I thought an orgasm was inherently pleasurable. Is there such a thing as an unplearable erection? I don't recall anyone describing a female orgasm as not pleasurable, but is that a thing also?

Just curious here.

** The Male Hustler: 7 Midnight Cowboys Tell their Stories by Lawrence Block writing as John Warren Wells, 1975

This book is fascinating because the interviews are quite lengthy and the interviewees are quite articulate. The structure is more like monologues than questions and answers.

Faking it hurt...????

 

[MillieDynamite]

I never orgasmed when I was with a man. I faked the shit out of it, never came. When I was hired by a woman, several times, I did orgasm, and my body had all the outward signs of being pleasured; my mind hated the experience. I wasn't connected to the woman beyond the money she paid, and it felt cheap for me to cum. It lessened me in my eyes. I've not been with another woman since I met Jo. I can't imagine being with anyone sexually ever again but her.

 

[Britva415]

You mean they ejaculate without an erection???? Or do you mean "lack of an erection that feels really good?"

I mean, there's this whole nexus of things which are all independent to some degree even though they're conventionally thought of as simultaneous or synonymous.

We can orgasm without erection.
We can orgasm without ejaculation.
We can erection without orgasm.

We can ejaculate without orgasm.
We can ejaculate without erection.
We can erection without ejaculation.

We can do all of these things with or without "arousal" (which is not synonymous with erection).

And all of these things could happen with or without any good/pleasurable feelings. I have to admit, I for one have never experienced that, or at least not all of them, but, it's within the realm of male experience generally.

I don't know if this makes male orgasms more complicated or less complicated than women's orgasms.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Some sexologists differentiate between orgasm and ejaculation. Ejaculation is mechanical, and may or may not be pleasant. Orgasm is the pleasurable experience. I have no opinion, I'm just saying I've read that.

-Annie

 

[MillieDynamite]

When women orgasm during rape, it is more humiliating and the humiliation stays with them longer. It becomes a block for them to gain pleasure during sex (orgasm or not). The trauma nags at you years or decades after the rape (orgasm or not).

 

[jehoram]

If your job is as a male sex worker, I imagine that orgasms become pretty routine, and you start looking for the orgasm to end all orgasms. Like that Leonard Cohen lyric: "Like any dealer, he's just searching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another."

 

[AG31]

I'd like to refine the question to ask about the physical sensation of an orgasm that is not pleasurable. How, physical-sensation-wise, does it differ from an orgasm that's pleasurable. I'm thinking that this is a good challenge for the writers here, because it's notoriously difficult to describe the sensations of an orgasm of any kind.

I've edited the OP.

 

[Britva415]

I haven’t experienced it to a highly dramatic degree, but based on the degree to which I have, it’s a lot like almost any other of those sensations which are sometimes pleasurable and sometimes not.

It’s not necessarily so much a different sensation, sometimes it’s more like just the mood - how is my nervous system receiving it. Sometimes (rarely) I’m happy to be tickled, and actually enjoy the sensations, other (most) times I fucking hate it. It only “feels different” because of the “feelings” about it, not so much because of the purely physical part of it. Tickling is tickling.

Sometimes it’s too intense to enjoy, and an orgasm can be like that too. Sometimes it’s not intense enough to be satisfying, so not pleasurable enough.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'd like to refine the question to ask about the physical sensation of an orgasm that is not pleasurable. How, physical-sensation-wise, does it differ from an orgasm that's pleasurable. I'm thinking that this is a good challenge for the writers here, because it's notoriously difficult to describe the sensations of an orgasm of any kind.

I've edited the OP.

The difficulty with this as a writer's challenge is that the request is potentially traumatizing, as per Millie's comments above (about orgasm during rape, which must be horrifying, devastating); or incomprehensible to someone like me, for example, who has never experienced a ruined orgasm and never wants to.

I cannot imagine what a non-pleasurable orgasm feels like from a physiological point for view, and I can't comprehend the mental place I'd need to be in to ever deliberately seek out the experience.

 

[Scareltt]

They happen, I describe them as a Heat Lightning orgasm. They feel okay to great, but they’re not the main event.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Ever had dental work or something similar under an anesthetic that's just enough to block the pain without blocking all physical sensation? You can still feel the...let's call it the physics of what's going on, pressure and vibration and so on. But without the "ow fuck" part.

Sometimes orgasms can be similar to that: one still gets the muscle contractions/etc. but the pleasure signals to the brain are missing, or greatly diminished.

 

[WCSGarland]

The signals for orgasm come from the brain. The brain releases oxytocin that signals the bodily contractions associated with orgasm.

 

[Britva415]

Some sexologists differentiate between orgasm and ejaculation.

Show me the sexologist who doesn’t!

 

[AG31]

Here's my submission for describing a non-pleasurable orgasm. Might it be like a charley horse without the pain?

 

[AG31]

The feeling good and the muscular spasms don't have to go together, though they often do, similar to men.

Thanks to @Kumquatqueen for this very clear statement from another thread. This is what I had in mind when I likened a non-pleasurable orgasm to a charley horse without pain. It's just a muscular spasm. Kumquatqueen seems to have given credence to my theory.