What I learned in six months here

[HyunnaPark]

I came to Literotica with a single goal, to get better at writing. The last six months have seen one of the two biggest jumps that my writing has made during a short period, and I've thought about why that was. Here's what I came up with:

1. The solution to virtually every writing problem is to write through it. I haven't hit that really epic writer's block so maybe it won't work there, but it helps when I'm not motivated, when I'm not focused, when I'm not feeling confident in the work, and most other times. Most technical questions like tense & POV character get answered for me faster by trying them than any kind of analysis or navel gazing. This isn't an earth shattering revelation, but more of a reminder that a problem I'm having with my writing is likely going to be solved through writing.

2. Writing and storytelling are not the same thing. This one might be obvious to most of you, but I'm totally self-taught and this was not obvious to me when I got here. Prior to a few months ago, I'd spent all my time thinking about using the language to express the scene. I had it pointed out that I wasn't thinking enough about how to assemble the scenes together into a coherent story.

3. Find your pack. Maybe this isn't important to everyone, but finding people to walk with on my writing journey has been incredible. The friends I've made here and the people I've been able to draw close to me have been my rock, and sometimes they're the only things keeping me going as a writer. In my opinion, you can never have too many of these. I love you all dearly.

This wasn't a learning I made recently, but the single biggest jump my writing ever took came from this insight:

4. Learn to copy (edit: synthesize or emulate) other authors' style. The biggest, and fastest, step my writing ever took was when I decided to try to replicate the writing style of authors whose writing inspired me. I'd always done this, but decided to make a concerted effort over a month to study an author's style, and the difference was stark. Since then I've added pieces of more authors' styles to mine and the result is my own personal way of expressing the scenes in my head. I suspect this thought may not sit well with all of AH, but it's one I swear by.

 

[old_prof]

I came to Literotica with a single goal, to get better at writing. The last six months have seen one of the two biggest jumps that my writing has made during a short period, and I've thought about why that was. Here's what I came up with:

First off, I want to say how happy I am that you came here.

I don't know if you intended this to become a what have we learned by being here thread, but I'm taking it there.
I've been here as a writer a few months longer than you. As a participant in AH, only a month longer.

When I came here, I had not written any fiction in over fifty years. I had not had an English or literature class since high school, also a half century ago.
Most GUM is the same fiction or non-fiction, but I had no memory how to format dialogue. Which got me some early stories rejected until I learned from the article Laurel sends with that rejection. I knew what present and past tenses were, but I had no idea why to use one or the other (still not completely sure, TBH). Same with 1P vs 3P.

But that was not my biggest lesson.

1) Reading stories like a writer.

My big epiphany as a writer came from the first time I had a beta reader for any of my stories, when @HyunnaPark read my one and only attempt at humor, The Great Cupcake Caper. I only took it to her about it because the whole project was her fault -- it arose out of a joke in the coffee house thread. I read her feedback and was like "Wow, you can think that way about writing?" To be honest, my first reaction to her commentary was more "Shit, she hates this. This is painful to read." After a few deep breaths and a strong desire to walk around the block a few dozen times, despite not having a working knee, I re-read her feedback and saw what she was saying. I did not take every one of her suggestions; I'm sure the story would have been better had I done so. But I took enough of her advice to salvage the story from being to truly awful to just bad comedy.

And it changed the way I read my own writing revision. And I have started reading for several others, which I have discovered I enjoy.

---

I've learned a lot of technical stuff about writing from @StillStunned and @Britva415 and many others. I thank all of you for your patience in teaching me.

I did realize early on the difference between writing (where I still suck) and storytelling (which I think I'm at least okay at).

I also second the need for a pack. For me, that's both an inner circle of people I can really lean on and an extended family. I feel like I've found both. Thank you to all of you.

 

[SimonDoom]

I came to Literotica with a single goal, to get better at writing. The last six months have seen one of the two biggest jumps that my writing has made during a short period, and I've thought about why that was. Here's what I came up with:

1. The solution to virtually every writing problem is to write through it. I haven't hit that really epic writer's block so maybe it won't work there, but it helps when I'm not motivated, when I'm not focused, when I'm not feeling confident in the work, and most other times. Most technical questions like tense & POV character get answered for me faster by trying them than any kind of analysis or navel gazing. This isn't an earth shattering revelation, but more of a reminder that a problem I'm having with my writing is likely going to be solved through writing.

2. Writing and storytelling are not the same thing. This one might be obvious to most of you, but I'm totally self-taught and this was not obvious to me when I got here. Prior to a few months ago, I'd spent all my time thinking about using the language to express the scene. I had it pointed out that I wasn't thinking enough about how to assemble the scenes together into a coherent story.

3. Find your pack. Maybe this isn't important to everyone, but finding people to walk with on my writing journey has been incredible. The friends I've made here and the people I've been able to draw close to me have been my rock, and sometimes they're the only things keeping me going as a writer. In my opinion, you can never have too many of these. I love you all dearly.

This wasn't a learning I made recently, but the single biggest jump my writing ever took came from this insight:

4. Learn to copy other authors' style. The biggest, and fastest, step my writing ever took was when I decided to try to replicate the writing style of authors whose writing inspired me. I'd always done this, but decided to make a concerted effort over a month to study an author's style, and the difference was stark. Since then I've added pieces of more authors' styles to mine and the result is my own personal way of expressing the scenes in my head. I suspect this thought may not sit well with all of AH, but it's one I swear by.

It seems like you learned a lot in just six months. I'm glad you feel that way and that you've achieved a sense of satisfaction from having done so.

Each of us has his or her own creative path to follow, but it sure is helpful to know you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Others have walked similar paths, and we can learn from them even if we don't ultimately imitate them. I hope you continue to find success here.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

4. Learn to copy other authors' style. The biggest, and fastest, step my writing ever took was when I decided to try to replicate the writing style of authors whose writing inspired me. I'd always done this, but decided to make a concerted effort over a month to study an author's style, and the difference was stark. Since then I've added pieces of more authors' styles to mine and the result is my own personal way of expressing the scenes in my head. I suspect this thought may not sit well with all of AH, but it's one I swear by.

Don't copy, but synthesize. Take the aspect of their work that you like, and blend it in to your own.
A dash of Asimov, a sprinkle of Heinlein, a cup of Tolkien, stir in half a cup of Pournelle... add Pratchett to taste...

 

[TarnishedPenny]

@HyunnaPark - well done! And a belated welcome.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Yes! We're saying the same thing but you said it better. Thank you for that!

"Emulate" would be another term to express it.

It is tough to "copy" a writing style since it involves so many aspects of writing. That's why it also very challenging for established authors to completely hide their unique style when attempting to write something under a pseudonym.

 

[yowser]

Thanks for a thoughtful post, and for being a positive new denizen of the AH.

I will echo, and expand a bit, on your 'copying' notion.

For many writers, perhaps not all, trying out a different style can do all manner of things.

You can find out the advantages/drawbacks to short choppy action sentences (or long discursive immersive ones.) Experimentation outside your own comfortable laboratory can open new opportunities.

By consciously trying out another writer's style, you can get a better idea of fiction creation in general. Why does this author write this way? What sort of effect does it produce? How does the pacing and flow of the story work if told this way?

For new writers, I think emulating (not slavishly, but thoughtfully, and thanks for @BobbyBrandt for making this distinction) - for new anyone learning a craft, watching how a master does their work, and then trying it out for yourself - there is so much to learn from that.

And the goal, of course, is not imitation, but as an exercise to developing your own voice.

I've done it several times, and benefited for each effort.

 

[AG31]

Well, since this thread has morphed a bit, I'll go further then my initial "like".

First, welcome to AH! I'm glad to hear about your experience.

My relationship with AH is a little different than most. I don't think of myself as a writer, and was not looking to improve myself as a writer, except to fine tune the language in my existing, and never to be added to, oeuvre.

But I do love to think and talk about stuff, the written word in particular, but all kinds of stuff, and I can honestly say that I've never been in a group that's so satisfying to participate in as AH.

I do have a lot of specific things that I've learned here, mostly about myself and my writing, and they can be found here. I'm working on a substantial list of things to add to it that have cropped up in the year and a half since I posted that thread. Stay tuned.

 

[Britva415]

Yes! We're saying the same thing but you said it better. Thank you for that!

I see what you did there

 

[Erozetta]

My biggest takeaway from my time here is:

What you put into the community isn't always equal to what you get out of it and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people enjoy giving more than taking, other's aren't sure how to take or give so simply exist as best they can, and some need to take to better understand things.

Even exchanges aren't always equitable exchanges as some people simply can't take as much as they give and others can't give as much as they'd like to for a multitude of reasons. Observing and trying to understand individual needs and limitations has been interesting to me. I can see the people who want to be more present but struggle to find their footing and I can see people who have long established their footing looking for a place to slip away.

The whole point of a community is to work with individual strengths and weaknesses in order to build a foundation of support that is enduring and I see that here. His weakness gets support from that person's strength, her encouragement makes it easier for them to continue struggling before finally figuring it out, etc. There are cracks along the way and gaps that form and need to be filled, but the bones are still good despite those problems.

I hope more people can use the expertise and experience offered in the threads here to grow as writers and we can learn more about our own capabilities through trying, failing, and succeeding accordingly.

And I hope that people continue to develop friendships and mentorships and that those relationships encourage a drive toward understanding the difference between equal give and take, and equitable give and take.

I feel like I've gotten better at understanding that in my time here because of how various threads play out, for both good and bad. I genuinely appreciate the effort people make and look forward to continuing to contribute in whatever small ways I can.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

How to use dialog to move the story and give your characters personalities, and the importance of making that dialog sound like actual real people are saying it..

 

[Kelliezgirl]

How to use dialog to move the story and give your characters personalities, and the importance of making that dialog sound like actual real people are saying it..

#6 in Niven's Laws for Writers:
Everybody talks first draft.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

My biggest takeaway from my time here is:

What you put into the community isn't always equal to what you get out of it and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people enjoy giving more than taking, other's aren't sure how to take or give so simply exist as best they can, and some need to take to better understand things.

Even exchanges aren't always equitable exchanges as some people simply can't take as much as they give and others can't give as much as they'd like to for a multitude of reasons. Observing and trying to understand individual needs and limitations has been interesting to me. I can see the people who want to be more present but struggle to find their footing and I can see people who have long established their footing looking for a place to slip away.

The whole point of a community is to work with individual strengths and weaknesses in order to build a foundation of support that is enduring and I see that here. His weakness gets support from that person's strength, her encouragement makes it easier for them to continue struggling before finally figuring it out, etc. There are cracks along the way and gaps that form and need to be filled, but the bones are still good despite those problems.

I hope more people can use the expertise and experience offered in the threads here to grow as writers and we can learn more about our own capabilities through trying, failing, and succeeding accordingly.

And I hope that people continue to develop friendships and mentorships and that those relationships encourage a drive toward understanding the difference between equal give and take, and equitable give and take.

I feel like I've gotten better at understanding that in my time here because of how various threads play out, for both good and bad. I genuinely appreciate the effort people make and look forward to continuing to contribute in whatever small ways I can.

This is an interesting observation. I agree mostly, and I especially like the giver-taker analysis.

I also strongly disagree about the "community" part. There's no community here, because there's no common interest or sense of togetherness. There are only small or not so small groups who support each other in various disputes and stances.

 

[Erozetta]

This is an interesting observation. I agree mostly, and I especially like the giver-taker analysis.

I also strongly disagree about the "community" part. There's no community here, because there's no common interest or sense of togetherness. There are only small or not so small groups who support each other in various disputes and stances.

Community doesn't have to cheer each other on to support each other. Everyone who makes a post on writing, improving the site, encouraging storytelling is building onto and participating in the community here from my perspective.

The common interest here is writing and storytelling. We all do it in our own way, but the interest is there, the support is there, you just have to accept that criticism and conflict is an element of support, which I do. Challenging one another, pushing against each other's beliefs is a form of support as it's engaging with one another and pushing us to think and reconsider and either affirm or deny our original opinions. All of which is important to personal growth as well as growth within a community one participates in.

Communities argue. They don't always agree on best practices and ideals because they are comprised of individuals. But they also band together when needed, even with strong disagreements lingering between them. I've seen both here fairly regularly, including from you.

But disagreement with my take on community isn't a bad thing. Your view and experience is just a little different than mine.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Community doesn't have to cheer each other on to support each other. Everyone who makes a post on writing, improving the site, encouraging storytelling is building onto and participating in the community here from my perspective.

The common interest here is writing and storytelling. We all do it in our own way, but the interest is there, the support is there, you just have to accept that criticism and conflict is an element of support, which I do. Challenging one another, pushing against each other's beliefs is a form of support as it's engaging with one another and pushing us to think and reconsider and either affirm or deny our original opinions. All of which is important to personal growth as well as growth within a community one participates in.

Communities argue. They don't always agree on best practices and ideals because they are comprised of individuals. But they also band together when needed, even with strong disagreements lingering between them. I've seen both here fairly regularly, including from you.

But disagreement with my take on community isn't a bad thing. Your view and experience is just a little different than mine.

This time I disagree about most of it, but as you said, that's okay.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing for me. I, for one, very much encourage discussion and different opinions about literally everything. There's no other way to learn something new or to test our standpoints.

But the banding together when needed... yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Anytime push comes to shove here, we see a completely different picture. And that's further emphasized by the fact that banding together costs nothing. We are all anonymous here.
There's no common interest here, no rallying point, because with the exception of the small groups I mentioned, people see this as a zero-sum game. That has been proven time and again. But as you said, it's fine if we see this all with different eyes.

 

[alohadave]

But the banding together when needed... yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Anytime push comes to shove here, we see a completely different picture. And that's further emphasized by the fact that banding together costs nothing. We are all anonymous here.
There's no common interest here, no rallying point, because with the exception of the small groups I mentioned, people see this as a zero-sum game. That has been proven time and again. But as you said, it's fine if we see this all with different eyes.

Have you never met any humans before? This is exactly how people act in groups, whether they use their real names or not. This whole anonymous thing is BS. If you think that people wanted to be anonymous, we'd use a 4chan style of posting where everything really is truly anonymous. We don't use our IRL names, but you are AwkwardlySet, and we know you by your posts and how you post.

That we don't know you away from the forum doesn't mean that you haven't told and shown us who you are, at least this aspect of your personality.

 

[old_prof]

#6 in Niven's Laws for Writers:
Everybody talks first draft.

Can you expand what you mean here?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Can you expand what you mean here?

Conversations between two people in normal circumstances aren't these well polished back and forths. Everything isn't some perfect witty turn of a phrase.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

This time I disagree about most of it, but as you said, that's okay.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing for me. I, for one, very much encourage discussion and different opinions about literally everything. There's no other way to learn something new or to test our standpoints.

But the banding together when needed... yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Anytime push comes to shove here, we see a completely different picture. And that's further emphasized by the fact that banding together costs nothing. We are all anonymous here.
There's no common interest here, no rallying point, because with the exception of the small groups I mentioned, people see this as a zero-sum game. That has been proven time and again. But as you said, it's fine if we see this all with different eyes.

What would we band together for? What would the purpose of that be?
People have to have a cause in order to band together, and that's simply something that doesn't exist in the context of this community.

 

[bestkeptsecret678]

This post made me reflect on what I’ve learned since coming to Lit.

For myself, I’ve learned that I can actually write, and I don’t suck. Before publishing on Lit, I’d never written a single word of fiction… ever. So I have this site and this community to thank for launching my new vocation. I’ve since even dabbled as a freelance journalist, placing articles my local newspaper. I even have recurring column!

More broadly, I’ve learned just how amazing and diverse is the breadth of human sexuality. I had no idea…

 

[Erozetta]

This time I disagree about most of it, but as you said, that's okay.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing for me. I, for one, very much encourage discussion and different opinions about literally everything. There's no other way to learn something new or to test our standpoints.

But the banding together when needed... yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Anytime push comes to shove here, we see a completely different picture. And that's further emphasized by the fact that banding together costs nothing. We are all anonymous here.
There's no common interest here, no rallying point, because with the exception of the small groups I mentioned, people see this as a zero-sum game. That has been proven time and again. But as you said, it's fine if we see this all with different eyes.

Do you want to see the site succeed?

Because, from my experience and my point of view, that is the rallying point and common interest. We might all disagree on what success of the site looks like and how to help it get there (in whatever small ways we can help), but I think we all enjoy the connection to a readership this site offers and would like to see it continue.

It would be easier if we all agreed on the path forward and what success looked like, but we don't. So the way we band together towards this goal, is to push against each other and offer balance to each other. We create a baseline of site health in our personality, agreement and disagreement.

Frankly, if you and EB ever agreed on an aspect of the site that needed to change, I would fucking pay attention if I were the site owner because that's a giant red flag that says "this is extremely unlikely and needs my attention immediately."

But I have no idea how Laurel sees any of this.

I just strongly believe we all enjoy being here and want to continue to be here, so we will work towards the success of the site as we can. Sometimes that means voicing big dissenting opinions, and sometimes it means looking like we blindly agree with every aspect of the site as it currently is. I don't think anyone who does either of those is ever fully 100% one or the other, though.

And for what it's worth, my voice is on the site and on my website as well. My real name is known to a fair few people and more than one has my phone number, place of employment, and even my fucking address. Anyone who wanted to find me probably could with a quick Google search of things I've said on here or pictures I've posted.

I started anonymously, but I really really hate lying and I hate feeling fake. Liz genuinely feels more real to me because I don't have the baggage of my upbringing attached to it and I don't have to hide aspects of myself from anyone here. I can be happy and sad at the same time without being ridiculed or shamed. I don't have to put on a mask to feel human, and honestly, recently, my real name has felt more like a mask than my pen name ever has. Who I am here is who I am with my husband, and until I came here, he was the only person I could ever be myself around. Now, I have Alt, Das, and Grim, and so so many others I've come to trust from here that I genuinely don't care if people find out my real name.

I'm even open to talking to people on voice chat over Discord so people know the podcast and the audio I have up here, is really me.

My anonymity went out the window like three years ago when I met Das here, lol. I never intended to make friends here. I certainly never intended to accidentally call people on Discord and form meaningful years long friendships with them. I never intended to interact at all, and I've accidentally made probably a couple dozen friends from here at this point and I'm so fucking grateful for that. I'm also so incredibly bad at keeping secrets that I'm surprised I haven't simply fucked up and said my name here. I've certainly named my husband in my Discord a few times, lol.

Not knowing me in person isn't the same as me being anonymous. I'm more me here than I am in real life outside of my apartment. I'm certain that's not the case for everyone and that's their right. I just personally don't have either enough fucks or energy to put into a persona for here. If I did, I would choose a less depressed one.

 

[Britva415]

What would we band together for? What would the purpose of that be?

You tell us. Something has you interested in maintaining a profile and posting comments here. You've joined the band.

Why?

You know we're other people, right?

I'd answer, we band together to talk about writing Lit stories and being Lit authors. That's banding, to me. Maybe not to you.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Do you want to see the site succeed?

Because, from my experience and my point of view, that is the rallying point and common interest. We might all disagree on what success of the site looks like and how to help it get there (in whatever small ways we can help), but I think we all enjoy the connection to a readership this site offers and would like to see it continue.

It would be easier if we all agreed on the path forward and what success looked like, but we don't. So the way we band together towards this goal, is to push against each other and offer balance to each other. We create a baseline of site health in our personality, agreement and disagreement.

Frankly, if you and EB ever agreed on an aspect of the site that needed to change, I would fucking pay attention if I were the site owner because that's a giant red flag that says "this is extremely unlikely and needs my attention immediately."

But I have no idea how Laurel sees any of this.

I just strongly believe we all enjoy being here and want to continue to be here, so we will work towards the success of the site as we can. Sometimes that means voicing big dissenting opinions, and sometimes it means looking like we blindly agree with every aspect of the site as it currently is. I don't think anyone who does either of those is ever fully 100% one or the other, though.

And for what it's worth, my voice is on the site and on my website as well. My real name is known to a fair few people and more than one has my phone number, place of employment, and even my fucking address. Anyone who wanted to find me probably could with a quick Google search of things I've said on here or pictures I've posted.

I started anonymously, but I really really hate lying and I hate feeling fake. Liz genuinely feels more real to me because I don't have the baggage of my upbringing attached to it and I don't have to hide aspects of myself from anyone here. I can be happy and sad at the same time without being ridiculed or shamed. I don't have to put on a mask to feel human, and honestly, recently, my real name has felt more like a mask than my pen name ever has. Who I am here is who I am with my husband, and until I came here, he was the only person I could ever be myself around. Now, I have Alt, Das, and Grim, and so so many others I've come to trust from here that I genuinely don't care if people find out my real name.

I'm even open to talking to people on voice chat over Discord so people know the podcast and the audio I have up here, is really me.

My anonymity went out the window like three years ago when I met Das here, lol. I never intended to make friends here. I certainly never intended to accidentally call people on Discord and form meaningful years long friendships with them. I never intended to interact at all, and I've accidentally made probably a couple dozen friends from here at this point and I'm so fucking grateful for that. I'm also so incredibly bad at keeping secrets that I'm surprised I haven't simply fucked up and said my name here. I've certainly named my husband in my Discord a few times, lol.

Not knowing me in person isn't the same as me being anonymous. I'm more me here than I am in real life outside of my apartment. I'm certain that's not the case for everyone and that's their right. I just personally don't have either enough fucks or energy to put into a persona for here. If I did, I would choose a less depressed one.

Agree or disagree, the one thing I've always loved about your posts is the raw honesty.

You touched on an important question there. What counts as a success for the website? What counts as our own personal success here? These are related but very different questions.

When it comes to goals, our personal perspectives, yours and mine, might not be different at all. I assume we both want to be read, to reach out to people with our writing, to receive feedback, to connect with people with similar tastes, and finally, to learn and improve through feedback, but also through discussion with other authors.

The success of the website, yeah, that's a whole different matter. Laurel's goals, what I could glean from the behavior of the website's admins, are to maximize traffic, to maximize clicks above everything else. Everything they do tells me that's their priority. The visual but not really functional improvements in the user interface, the constant promotion and encouragement of events, the information (the lack of it) that's displayed about each story, the standards and requirements for a story to be published...

Now, someone might ask, how does that not favor my own goals as well? More visits, more clicks = more eyes on my story, right?
Well, no, that's not so. I want meaningful clicks, not many clicks. I don't want the deceiving impression that Lit gives us, one that many people fall for, that the number of views is the number of reads. I suspect that's far, far, far from the truth. It's just one more thing that's aimed towards improving the traffic or even towards creating the impression of high traffic.

Anyway, I've talked about these issues many times, and I don't want to go into too much detail. What I see is that you've fulfilled many of your personal goals through Literotica. I'm happy for you, truly. To be frank, I've also fulfilled some of mine, not as much as you, but still, I did achieve something.

But I also can't remain blind and deaf to the cold indifference that Lit shows towards authors' needs in general. I can't help seeing what Literotica could be, a symbiosis, a partnership between the website and authors (as KeithD used to say). There is a way, I am certain of that, for both sides to gain from that partnership, but sadly, Laurel's goals do not align with mine, yours, or the goals of anyone here, IMO.

And my attitude towards the AH is the same, more or less. I see what the AH could be, so I can't help being disappointed with what it actually is, even if it's not objectively a bad place to be.

 

[StillStunned]

What I've learned in two and a half years here:

When I started, I wasn't such a good writer as I thought I was. By extension, that probably means that I'm not as good now as I think I am.

I enjoy experimenting with writing. I derive much more pleasure from trying something completely different than from getting 100k views on cheesy T/I story.

Once a story is plotted out, I lose interest in writing it. If I'm not close to finishing it at that point, I probably won't ever finish it.

There are people in the world who are like me, but completely different. And there are people in the world who are completely unlike me, and yet very similar. I'd explain, but you know what I mean.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You tell us. Something has you interested in maintaining a profile and posting comments here. You've joined the band.

Why?

You know we're other people, right?

I'd answer, we band together to talk about writing Lit stories and being Lit authors. That's banding, to me. Maybe not to you.

The most common definitions of "band together" involve the idea of being united in a common cause.
I don't think the activity in the AH rises to that level. We certainly aren't united in any real sense. Nor, quite frankly can I see any reason we should be.

To quote Sir Terry:
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions."