What is happening to public schools ?

[BoyNextDoor]

What's happening in the public schools is the affliction we know as "Liberalism".

Pronounced as "fundamental religious belief being used as a knife to vivisect the national public education policy".

 

[KingOrfeo]

What's happening in the public schools is the affliction we know as Liberalism.

How, exactly?

 

[Sean Renaud]

And of course public education has been a real benefit to society even recently. The fact is we are judging on a curve. And yes, we are not where we want to be on the curve, we are not where we need to be on the curve. But at least we're playing the game.

 

[CandiCame]

And of course public education has been a real benefit to society even recently. The fact is we are judging on a curve. And yes, we are not where we want to be on the curve, we are not where we need to be on the curve. But at least we're playing the game.

Is anybody actually saying that we don't benefit from public education tho? Because I didn't read the whole thread. And kinda don't want to. Because I'm lazy. But I /could/ because, you know, school. I can read, and choose not to. Because I'm an American.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And of course public education has been a real benefit to society even recently. The fact is we are judging on a curve. And yes, we are not where we want to be on the curve, we are not where we need to be on the curve. But at least we're playing the game.

If this was directed at me for my comment in post #48 that was directed specifically at teachers unions, not public education in general.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Then my apology. Though I think the teacher's union has failed to do itself any real favors. All our unions are fucking pathetic.

 

[CandiCame]

Then my apology. Though I think the teacher's union has failed to do itself any real favors. All our unions are fucking pathetic.

They kinda did a lot of good work back in the day. And they have a pretty good retirement plan. Which is weird. You don't pay into social security. It's this whole other thing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Then my apology. Though I think the teacher's union has failed to do itself any real favors. All our unions are fucking pathetic.

I'm just saying, mostly to the knee jerk reaction lefties like rob, there are countries using similar voucher systems that are whipping our ass's in academia so maybe we shouldn't cast the idea aside as evil GOP nazi bullshit before we even give it a chance to work.

We should just be glad people are willing to try something than the same tired ol' fail....and if a state or district w/e wants to give that kind of system a spin, why the fuck not? We should all try and make it the best possible...

But I fear as usual politics and money will trump getting our kids the best education we can for the buck we got.

They kinda did a lot of good work back in the day. And they have a pretty good retirement plan. Which is weird. You don't pay into social security. It's this whole other thing.

Been a long time....and that's largely been their undoing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm not a fan of the voucher system because I think that the major problems that exist today would largely be exasperated by a voucher system. I'm not unwilling to try it, I don't have any kids. I think you have to let it go for at minimum twelve years before anything can be learned about it one way or the other.

I also think our amount of fail is grossly exaggerated.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm not a fan of the voucher system because I think that the major problems that exist today would largely be exasperated by a voucher system.

Why do you think that?

What kind of system do you think we should have?

I'm not unwilling to try it, I don't have any kids. I think you have to let it go for at minimum twelve years before anything can be learned about it one way or the other.

True...the results would deff take time to manifest.

I also think our amount of fail is grossly exaggerated.

International test scores suggest otherwise.....and our primary education system is the fucking laughing stock of the 1st world, much like our HC system.

But I am an overly critical asshole and being 30th something place in the world is kind of disappointing for me *shrug* I would rather be No.1.....or at least in the top 10 because M'uricuh gawd damn it. Ranked down in LOSERVILLE just ain't good enough for me, it's fuckin' embarrassing actually, much like our HC system.

I think this problem stems largely from our politics.....people like vette get put in power and want to make creationism science and dismantle the education system in the most broken/destructive ways because freedumb n' stuff and the only people they have to work with making policy? A bunch of Robs....10,800/kid/yr is too much to spend on a private school should parents decide to seek an alternative, but no where close enough for a public students education. MMMmmmm no sir that's not even enough to teach them how to read and the ONLY answer they will accept to any problems? Moar funding.....

Neither of them give a rats fuckin' ass about the kids education....partisan politics above all else and nothing good comes of it because both sides are just itching to scorch the fuckin' Earth to get shit on the other guys shoes, fuck the kids and their god damn education, RIGHT GUYS?!??!?

LOL fucking douche bags.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Why do you think that?

What kind of system do you think we should have?

Because the parents who live in the shit neighborhoods with the shit schools are not going to be able to take the time out of their two jobs to drive their kids to a school outside their immediate area. If they HAD that kind of time and money they wouldn't live in those neighborhoods. They would also be educated themselves and thus better able to contribute. While I'm a strong believer that the schools and teachers and facilities are important having people at home who are educated is a huge plus.

However we don't invest in our schools, we don't pay for our schools. We pretend we do because we judge it sheerly by dollars, not dollars including inflation, percent of the GDP or anything else meaningful.

International test scores suggest otherwise.....and our primary education system is the fucking laughing stock of the 1st world, much like our HC system.

But I am an overly critical asshole and being 30th something place in the world is kind of disappointing for me *shrug* I would rather be No.1.....or at least in the top 10 because M'uricuh gawd damn it. Ranked down in LOSERVILLE just ain't good enough for me, it's fuckin' embarrassing actually, much like our HC system.

I think it's important to dig up the scores amongst other things and compare and contrast. I'd much rather be top 10 BUT here's snag. What precisely here is the difference between in this case? I've never seen it properly quantified other than sheer, you're not getting into college in a competition ways.

How much difference there is makes a huge difference.

I think this problem stems largely from our politics.....people like vette get put in power and want to make creationism science and dismantle the education system in the most broken/destructive ways because freedumb n' stuff and the only people they have to work with making policy? A bunch of Robs....10,800/kid/yr is too much to spend on a private school should parents decide to seek an alternative, but no where close enough for a public students education. MMMmmmm no sir that's not even enough to teach them how to read and the ONLY answer they will accept to any problems? Moar

I think that's MOSTLY something that can be chalked up to America being the only real country that hasn't basically sent religion packing. The Right really buys that crap but the reality is the LEft in this country isn't atheist/agnostic. We're still Christian and very reluctant to do what needs to be done and say, that's retarded. Back of the buss bitch.

We also might want to consider cheating on our test scores the way much of the rest of the world does. Many places do kindly escort you to vocational training when it's obvious you're not getting it.

Neither of them give a rats fuckin' ass about the kids education....partisan politics above all else and nothing good comes of it because both sides are just itching to scorch the fuckin' Earth to get shit on the other guys shoes, fuck the kids and their god damn education, RIGHT GUYS?!??!?

LOL fucking douche bags.

I think they both care deeply about kids education, just that they disagree on how best to get there. Vette agrees with you for the most part and Rob agrees with me for the most part.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Why do you think that?

What kind of system do you think we should have?



True...the results would deff take time to manifest.



International test scores suggest otherwise.....and our primary education system is the fucking laughing stock of the 1st world, much like our HC system.

But I am an overly critical asshole and being 30th something place in the world is kind of disappointing for me *shrug* I would rather be No.1.....or at least in the top 10 because M'uricuh gawd damn it. Ranked down in LOSERVILLE just ain't good enough for me, it's fuckin' embarrassing actually, much like our HC system.

I think this problem stems largely from our politics.....people like vette get put in power and want to make creationism science and dismantle the education system in the most broken/destructive ways because freedumb n' stuff and the only people they have to work with making policy? A bunch of Robs....10,800/kid/yr is too much to spend on a private school should parents decide to seek an alternative, but no where close enough for a public students education. MMMmmmm no sir that's not even enough to teach them how to read and the ONLY answer they will accept to any problems? Moar funding.....

Neither of them give a rats fuckin' ass about the kids education....partisan politics above all else and nothing good comes of it because both sides are just itching to scorch the fuckin' Earth to get shit on the other guys shoes, fuck the kids and their god damn education, RIGHT GUYS?!??!?

LOL fucking douche bags.

I'd love to know the name of this international test you're talking about so we could actually discuss it. My initial response is that it's something that probably compares apples to oranges.

I will agree with you that politicians will screw up any educational system we choose.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I'm just saying, mostly to the knee jerk reaction lefties like rob, there are countries using similar voucher systems that are whipping our ass's in academia so maybe we shouldn't cast the idea aside as evil GOP nazi bullshit before we even give it a chance to work.

We should just be glad people are willing to try something than the same tired ol' fail....and if a state or district w/e wants to give that kind of system a spin, why the fuck not? We should all try and make it the best possible...

But I fear as usual politics and money will trump getting our kids the best education we can for the buck we got.



Been a long time....and that's largely been their undoing.

Countries with homogenous populations tend to do better on standardized tests. The USA has one of the most diverse populations of all time. Vouchers have little or nothing to do with it.

"Quick fix" dingleberries like BotanyBoy see vouchers as a way to quickly solve a problem, the ole "I gots mine, fuck you!" mindset. They're not willing to invest the time or effort into fixing what they perceive as fundamental flaws in the existing system.

but...but...Teacher Unions!

 

[KingOrfeo]

What's happening in the public schools is the affliction we know as Liberalism.

How, exactly?

 

[unregistered]

 

[CandiCame]

It's quite obvious. The anti-Americanism, the anti-male female domination of education, the failure to teach American exceptionalism, the Constitution, the founding principles of country, the concentration on social justice, the education industry backing every liberal scheme known to man, are all indicators they suffer from the same liberal mental affliction you do.

You mean the anti-Americanism where we force small children to stand up and chant rhymes before class every day for 12 years in a manner that, once you explain it to an outsider, really, really makes you feel like you're in a cult.

Alltogether now.

I pledge allegiance,
To the flag,
Of the United States of America
And to the republic for which it stands-

Now somebody else pick up. Pick up so we can show that we all know it by heart because they made us do it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It's quite obvious. The anti-Americanism, the anti-male female domination of education, the failure to teach American exceptionalism, the Constitution, the founding principles of country, the concentration on social justice, the education industry backing every liberal scheme known to man . . .

. . . would not, even if real, explain a single thing the OP was complaining about. Would it?

 

[RjThoughts]

What's happening? Lazy fucking parents!!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Because the parents who live in the shit neighborhoods with the shit schools are not going to be able to take the time out of their two jobs to drive their kids to a school outside their immediate area. If they HAD that kind of time and money they wouldn't live in those neighborhoods. They would also be educated themselves and thus better able to contribute. While I'm a strong believer that the schools and teachers and facilities are important having people at home who are educated is a huge plus.

There is so much assumption and bullshit with this I could write a grad school term paper on what a load of shit it is.

Just because can't afford baller house means can't afford the time to take kids to school....RIGHT.

However we don't invest in our schools, we don't pay for our schools. We pretend we do because we judge it sheerly by dollars, not dollars including inflation, percent of the GDP or anything else meaningful.

I'm sorry what? I was too busy looking at the fact that we spend a fucking GRIP.
https://polisonic.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/education20spending.jpg

2nd place spending...35th place results. Someone is full of fucking shit and it's not the folks saying "Something is fuckin' BROKEN with this situation."

*sniff*

The shit is to the left with the "There is nothing wrong except never enough funding, EVER!!" crowd as they stand in their High School football stadium that would put the Dallas Cowboys to shame hiding their test scores.

I think it's important to dig up the scores amongst other things and compare and contrast. I'd much rather be top 10 BUT here's snag. What precisely here is the difference between in this case? I've never seen it properly quantified other than sheer, you're not getting into college in a competition ways.

How much difference there is makes a huge difference.

It's not the system it's the TESTING!

I think that's MOSTLY something that can be chalked up to America being the only real country that hasn't basically sent religion packing. The Right really buys that crap but the reality is the LEft in this country isn't atheist/agnostic. We're still Christian and very reluctant to do what needs to be done and say, that's retarded. Back of the buss bitch.

Real talk right here^^

We also might want to consider cheating on our test scores the way much of the rest of the world does. Many places do kindly escort you to vocational training when it's obvious you're not getting it.

Or maybe we should quit trying to take every fucking retards retard fuck trophy and throw billions at them until they are astro fuckin' nauts and brain surgeons because it AINT FUCKING HAPPENING YOU FUCKING RETARDS!

So stop dragging Jimmy/Suzy Q with an I.Q. of 250 down to derpina's level to compensate.

God damn liburhulz....always the first to race to the lowest common denominator Jesus titty fuckin' christ send them to ITT fuckin' TECH there is nothing wrong with vocational training.

But we can't have that because it's not fair.....so dumb down the whole god damn country.

I think they both care deeply about kids education, just that they disagree on how best to get there. Vette agrees with you for the most part and Rob agrees with me for the most part.

Really because it seems like both of them are WAY the fuck more concerned with the money, who's getting it and making sure they toe their party line like good little lemmings.

Not what will improve graduation rates and raise STANDARDS to a level that is competitive with the rest of the 1st world....

I'd love to know the name of this international test you're talking about so we could actually discuss it. My initial response is that it's something that probably compares apples to oranges.

It's called google Sgt....search 'international education rankings' and you should get about 38,000,000 hits telling you that the US's primary education system is in fact embarrassing, unless bat shit psycho lefty.

Then they just ignore reality and never shut the fuck up about how fucking amazing it is and that those ranking systems are bias apples to oranges bullshit anyhow.

Countries with homogenous populations tend to do better on standardized tests. The USA has one of the most diverse populations of all time.

So we couldn't stand to improve our education system? At least TRY something that other people are getting better results with?

NAWWW too progressive for you hua? Big (D) has it's dick balls deep in that honey pot and NOTHING should be allowed to upset that

Vouchers have little or nothing to do with it.

How the fuck would you know you're not even willing to try and see if it works....you somehow already know it will crash and burn right??

All those retard Europeans that spank us academically don't have a clue now do they??

"Quick fix" dingleberries like BotanyBoy see vouchers as a way to quickly solve a problem, the ole "I gots mine, fuck you!" mindset.

How is that even related? I gots mind fuck you? Are you also hysterically flopping about as you make this random shit up?

They're not willing to invest the time or effort into fixing what they perceive as fundamental flaws in the existing system.

but...but...Teacher Unions!

We have invested decades and trillions and it hasn't been working so well....at what point are you willing to try something new that's working better for other people there Mr.So progressive???

I don't think you will....I think you're such a partisan turd you would gladly dumb down america to fit your narrative.

The left LOL, progressive until education or gun control comes up.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The bottom line is: Rats beget rats, snakes beget snakes, and niggers beget niggers. Its a fools errand to try and make them what they aint.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So we couldn't stand to improve our education system? At least TRY something that other people are getting better results with?
NAWWW too progressive for you hua? Big (D) has it's dick balls deep in that honey pot and NOTHING should be allowed to upset that
How the fuck would you know you're not even willing to try and see if it works....you somehow already know it will crash and burn right??
All those retard Europeans that spank us academically don't have a clue now do they??
How is that even related? I gots mind fuck you? Are you also hysterically flopping about as you make this random shit up?
We have invested decades and trillions and it hasn't been working so well....at what point are you willing to try something new that's working better for other people there Mr.So progressive???
I don't think you will....I think you're such a partisan turd you would gladly dumb down america to fit your narrative.
The left LOL, progressive until education or gun control comes up.

I'm more than happy to "try something new" that will benefit society as a whole. Vouchers do not meet t that test. They bifurcate public education into winners and losers by diverting scarce resources (Public education money) to the advantage of a select few. Hence, "I gots mine, fuck you". See? That wasn't so hard to understand!

Although it doesn't fit your "if I can't shrink it down to a bumper sticker, it's wrong" mentality, there are plenty of societal changes in Murica that adversely impact education. We as a country have essentially outsource a significant portion of child raising to public education.

We've got a ton of single parent households and two earner households where time spent with children is often at a premium. We've got millions on public assistance and free breakfast and free lunch. IEPs (Individual Education Plans) for the "mentally challenged". All of this costs money and a significant drain on public education dollars.

Yet people like you think spluttering "but but vouchers" is gonna make everything better? You're delusional.

 

[CandiCame]

I'm more than happy to "try something new" that will benefit society as a whole. Vouchers do not meet t that test. They bifurcate public education into winners and losers by diverting scarce resources (Public education money) to the advantage of a select few. Hence, "I gots mine, fuck you". See? That wasn't so hard to understand!

Although it doesn't fit your "if I can't shrink it down to a bumper sticker, it's wrong" mentality, there are plenty of societal changes in Murica that adversely impact education. We as a country have essentially outsource a significant portion of child raising to public education.

We've got a ton of single parent households and two earner households where time spent with children is often at a premium. We've got millions on public assistance and free breakfast and free lunch. IEPs (Individual Education Plans) for the "mentally challenged". All of this costs money and a significant drain on public education dollars.

Yet people like you think spluttering "but but vouchers" is gonna make everything better? You're delusional.

I agree that we need more sweeping reforms so that the vouchers won't be necessary and that all schools should be good schools, but I don't know how we would accomplish that. I wouldn't agree that the issue is a society where parents shy away from childrearing, however. Especially since trends in parenting show that parents have increased the time they spend with their children, steadily since child advocacy groups began recording it in the 1960s. Fathers, in particular, spend 7 times more time fathering than they did 40 years ago.

But the main issue I have is that I don't know how to fix the education issues that we face as a people. I have no idea.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm more than happy to "try something new" that will benefit society as a whole.

This is about getting american children the best possible education and training to embark on life with as having the best trained and most competitive students in the world is a benefit in and of it self.

I'm not really sure why you're running from that for 'benefit society as a whole' because it's kinda the same thing.

Vouchers do not meet t that test.

A number of 1st world European nations who whip our ass regularly in academia would disagree.

They bifurcate public education into winners and losers by diverting scarce resources (Public education money) to the advantage of a select few. Hence, "I gots mine, fuck you". See? That wasn't so hard to understand!

Scarce? They got jumbo trons and NFL style stadiums at high schools across M'uricuah bro...we spend a grip we just spend it on the dumbest shit possible, then ask for moar.

And it's all assumption.....you're implying there is inherent corruption with the idea of stepping outside the "school is determined by zip code only, burn private schools, GOVERNMENT IS YOUR GOD!!"
http://www.earthlyissues.com/images/apophis.jpg
dogma you're clinging to.

And that's a total load of shit...there are a bunch of ways to set it up so parents have a choice and not have it be in the interest of a select few. IDK where the fuck you're coming up with that load of shit anyhow but assuming it was true, we don't have to build it like that.

Although it doesn't fit your "if I can't shrink it down to a bumper sticker, it's wrong" mentality, there are plenty of societal changes in Murica that adversely impact education.

Yea....what's that got to do with giving parents a choice in where their kids go to school? How does it make giving parents that choice such a bad thing as you say it is?

We as a country have essentially outsource a significant portion of child raising to public education.

And yet you WANT THAT, you promote it. Even if lil johnny performs and is smart as fuck you say fuck lil johnny....he is zip code X so he's only entitled to a shit education. No way out, and don't dare give him an out because that's just horrible, BECAUSE!! right rob?

We've got a ton of single parent households and two earner households where time spent with children is often at a premium. We've got millions on public assistance and free breakfast and free lunch. IEPs (Individual Education Plans) for the "mentally challenged". All of this costs money and a significant drain on public education dollars.

Yet they can still afford Jumbo Trons for the fooze bawllin.....

Cry me a fucking river.

Yet people like you think spluttering "but but vouchers" is gonna make everything better? You're delusional.

Never once said it would make everything better....you illiterate fucking moron. You're delusional.

I said other societies are using it and kicking the piss out of your beloved "Dumb everyone down so we ALL get gold stars and warm fuzzies!" so maybe we should try it and see if we can't improve. That's when you freaked out and went on a DNC (I can't even call it lefty, socialist love voucher systems) ascription/assumption spree. DEFEND TEH NARRATIVE ROB!!! STICK WITH THE BROKEN SYSTEM AT ALL COST CUZ PARTY IS GETTING PAAAAAID!

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

There is so much assumption and bullshit with this I could write a grad school term paper on what a load of shit it is.

Just because can't afford baller house means can't afford the time to take kids to school....RIGHT.



I'm sorry what? I was too busy looking at the fact that we spend a fucking GRIP.
https://polisonic.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/education20spending.jpg

2nd place spending...35th place results. Someone is full of fucking shit and it's not the folks saying "Something is fuckin' BROKEN with this situation."

*sniff*

The shit is to the left with the "There is nothing wrong except never enough funding, EVER!!" crowd as they stand in their High School football stadium that would put the Dallas Cowboys to shame hiding their test scores.



It's not the system it's the TESTING!





Real talk right here^^



Or maybe we should quit trying to take every fucking retards retard fuck trophy and throw billions at them until they are astro fuckin' nauts and brain surgeons because it AINT FUCKING HAPPENING YOU FUCKING RETARDS!

So stop dragging Jimmy/Suzy Q with an I.Q. of 250 down to derpina's level to compensate.

God damn liburhulz....always the first to race to the lowest common denominator Jesus titty fuckin' christ send them to ITT fuckin' TECH there is nothing wrong with vocational training.

But we can't have that because it's not fair.....so dumb down the whole god damn country.



Really because it seems like both of them are WAY the fuck more concerned with the money, who's getting it and making sure they toe their party line like good little lemmings.

Not what will improve graduation rates and raise STANDARDS to a level that is competitive with the rest of the 1st world....




It's called google Sgt....search 'international education rankings' and you should get about 38,000,000 hits telling you that the US's primary education system is in fact embarrassing, unless bat shit psycho lefty.

Then they just ignore reality and never shut the fuck up about how fucking amazing it is and that those ranking systems are bias apples to oranges bullshit anyhow.



So we couldn't stand to improve our education system? At least TRY something that other people are getting better results with?

NAWWW too progressive for you hua? Big (D) has it's dick balls deep in that honey pot and NOTHING should be allowed to upset that



How the fuck would you know you're not even willing to try and see if it works....you somehow already know it will crash and burn right??

All those retard Europeans that spank us academically don't have a clue now do they??



How is that even related? I gots mind fuck you? Are you also hysterically flopping about as you make this random shit up?



We have invested decades and trillions and it hasn't been working so well....at what point are you willing to try something new that's working better for other people there Mr.So progressive???

I don't think you will....I think you're such a partisan turd you would gladly dumb down america to fit your narrative.

The left LOL, progressive until education or gun control comes up.

And those numbers have been adjusted for busing & healthcare, right? I'm guessing it's another apples to oranges comparison.

You keep sticking your head in the sand over the fact that we've had charter schools in the US for the past twenty years. The city of New Orleans is all charter schools. Where's the data showing they're better? If this was anyone else not showing data to you, you'd be screaming "STFU" & "GTFO".