What pissed you off today?

[WriterDom]

Well, 25 million + the fact that his opponent is a total fucking whackjob.



Nobody asks the President, or senatorial candidates in Nevada, whether it's wise for Catholics to build churches two blocks from elementary schools in this country. Nobody polls Americans asking them if placing clergy members so close to little boys would be insensitive. From Obama, on Friday:

[/I]

More school employees molest kids than the Catholic church. I guess by your logic we should end the school system.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

More school employees molest kids than the Catholic church. I guess by your logic we should end the school system.

There are significantly more school employees than there are priests, etc. Therefore, logic would suggest that more school employees molest kids than do priests. However, for your suggestion above to make any sense, you would have to provide evidence that the *percentage* of school employees molesting children is statistically and significantly greater than the percentage of priests doing so.

And JM wasn't suggesting that the Catholic Church be "ended," but merely that placing a church two blocks from an elementary school could be considered insensitive by the same "logic" being promulgated by the protesting parties.

 

[WriterDom]

There are significantly more school employees than there are priests, etc. Therefore, logic would suggest that more school employees molest kids than do priests. However, for your suggestion above to make any sense, you would have to provide evidence that the *percentage* of school employees molesting children is statistically and significantly greater than the percentage of priests doing so.

And JM wasn't suggesting that the Catholic Church be "ended," but merely that placing a church two blocks from an elementary school could be considered insensitive by the same "logic" being promulgated by the protesting parties.

Where is the proof that priests molesting children is statistically and significantly greater than any other segment of population who deals with kids? Yes, it happens and I'm not condoning the efforts over the years of the church covering it up no more than I do teachers who are either shuffled to desk jobs or able to get other employment in teaching after sexual misconduct and you have to know that goes on as well.

I'm surprised the abortion clinic bombers haven't been brought into the argument yet. God knows more abortion clinics are bombed in one day than all the Muslim bombs combined over the last nine years.

It's the argument of a child and it's so predictable when anyone raises an eyebrow over our peaceful Muslims brothers who stone homosexuals and imprison women for BEING raped, and put to death anyone who converts. And this is what their governments do. The radical element takes it to a whole new level. Like flying planes into buildings.

So put me and Reid down as part of the seventy percent who say build it somewhere else. Pretty stupid for the president to even chime in about it.

 

[Homburg]

I'm boggled that it is even a problem. Islam as a whole is no more at fault for 9/11 than christianity is for abortion clinic bombings.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Where is the proof that priests molesting children is statistically and significantly greater than any other segment of population who deals with kids? Yes, it happens and I'm not condoning the efforts over the years of the church covering it up no more than I do teachers who are either shuffled to desk jobs or able to get other employment in teaching after sexual misconduct and you have to know that goes on as well.

I'm surprised the abortion clinic bombers haven't been brought into the argument yet. God knows more abortion clinics are bombed in one day than all the Muslim bombs combined over the last nine years.

It's the argument of a child and it's so predictable when anyone raises an eyebrow over our peaceful Muslims brothers who stone homosexuals and imprison women for BEING raped, and put to death anyone who converts. And this is what their governments do. The radical element takes it to a whole new level. Like flying planes into buildings.

So put me and Reid down as part of the seventy percent who say build it somewhere else. Pretty stupid for the president to even chime in about it.

A question; do you know exactly where it's being built?

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

A question; do you know exactly where it's being built?

At the Burlington Coat Factory! YEA!

 

[WriterDom]

A question; do you know exactly where it's being built?

Yeah it was close enough to get hit by the fucking landing gear of one of the planes. Let the relatives of the 3000 or so people who were killed there decide if they want it. There is enough real estate on sale in America right now to where they can put a mosque on every street corner if they want. They don't have to put one there.

 

[cathrynb]

.....

 

[chy_girl]

I swear to all that is holy in the world, if I hear "...and I'm *not* going to play with *you* *ever* again!" I will ensure that little miss. bossy boots doesn't play with *anyone* for the next week!"

School can not start soon enough.

 

[LaSalsa]

Today I burnt my self, blisterings, pain, hate it when I don't pay attention.

 

[SisterDear]

my lap top for work got a fucking virus!

 

[intothewoods]

Well, 25 million + the fact that his opponent is a total fucking whackjob.




"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there."

If you mean that quote, it doesn't bother me a bit. (Though press coverage characterizing that as a "retraction" certainly does.)

His point, forcefully made Friday, is that they've got the right to build a religious center - same as Christians and Jews and anyone else. And the decision on whether to build it there, or at some other legal location, is none of the government's business.

Nobody asks the President, or senatorial candidates in Nevada, whether it's wise for Catholics to build churches two blocks from elementary schools in this country. Nobody polls Americans asking them if placing clergy members so close to little boys would be insensitive. From Obama, on Friday:

"The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure."

I don't think it was a necessary clarification. He had to know it would be perceived as backtracking. The way he phrased it is as if there might be some question to the decision to have a community center there. So maybe criticisms based on the "hallowed ground" of two blocks away, with the strip club and trashy shops, are valid. It opens that door.

I'm actually laughing out loud here. Not at what you said, but at the fact that I ended my post with a paragraph on "Release of Liability" forms and deleted it before posting because I wasn't 100% solid on how solid my handle on the relationship between the two concepts was. Glad to see that I was in the right area.

Some release of liability forms are fine, but you can't appreciate and give meaningful consent to a couple of sentences printed on the back of a ticket.

I was handed to us as a combination of law and best practices. The instructors made the distinction clear, but made certain that we knew that best practices was to err very much on the side of legality.



I agree that there is no Constitutional protection here. But I do think that there are definite legal protections. As you said above, much of what is listed in that note would result in charges of assault, robbery, etc.

There are legal protections. It's just not probable cause, unless there is a local law that says security guards must have probable cause to detain a person.

Oh, yeah, VERY familiar with security guards behaving badly. I've been called in the middle of the night to go out and replace someone who shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Ugh.

They're the worst, I personally think.

 

[JMohegan]

Where is the proof that priests molesting children is statistically and significantly greater than any other segment of population who deals with kids? Yes, it happens and I'm not condoning the efforts over the years of the church covering it up no more than I do teachers who are either shuffled to desk jobs or able to get other employment in teaching after sexual misconduct and you have to know that goes on as well.

I'm surprised the abortion clinic bombers haven't been brought into the argument yet. God knows more abortion clinics are bombed in one day than all the Muslim bombs combined over the last nine years.

It's the argument of a child and it's so predictable when anyone raises an eyebrow over our peaceful Muslims brothers who stone homosexuals and imprison women for BEING raped, and put to death anyone who converts. And this is what their governments do. The radical element takes it to a whole new level. Like flying planes into buildings.

So put me and Reid down as part of the seventy percent who say build it somewhere else. Pretty stupid for the president to even chime in about it.

Where is the proof that visitors to Muslim community centers are more likely to commit murder than any other Manhattan residents?

Also, WD, does this mean you'd like to repeal the 1st Amendment?

 

[faye20]

my family like they always do

 

[intothewoods]

Yeah it was close enough to get hit by the fucking landing gear of one of the planes. Let the relatives of the 3000 or so people who were killed there decide if they want it. There is enough real estate on sale in America right now to where they can put a mosque on every street corner if they want. They don't have to put one there.

Right down the street from the strip club. And the mosque that's been there since before 9/11. It's a community center. Like a YMCA. I would be fine with leaving this up to New Yorkers. Plenty of 9/11 families are supportive of the Cordoba Center. My main beef is that the arguments made by folks like Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich and others are not at all rational and are based on inaccurate information.

 

[WriterDom]

Where is the proof that visitors to Muslim community centers are more likely to commit murder than any other Manhattan residents?

Also, WD, does this mean you'd like to repeal the 1st Amendment?

Fine, build it. Can we get a permit for a Christian center in Mecca you think? You really want to rally conservatives you should build the biggest mosque in the world right on ground zero.

Why did Harry say basically fuck you, Obama? Because his switchboard was lit up with calls 10-1 against the mosque. I mean Jesus, I realize Obama is the least experienced president in modern history but doesn't he know when to stick to "it's a local issue" line?

Build it a mile away and the story would fade into nothing. That would seem to me to be in your best interest.

Most churches here have family centers and basketball courts but they don't have room for 2000 to pray. And they aren't called community centers, but churches. Leave off the 2000 seat prayer room or call it what it is. A mosque.

 

[satindesire]

Fine, build it. Can we get a permit for a Christian center in Mecca you think?

No. But then again...Mecca isn't in the US, and therefore, isn't subject to US laws. They don't have the nifty Church-State separation thingie that we do.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

There are legal protections. It's just probable cause, unless there is a local law that says security guards must have probable cause to detain a person.

When I went through security guard training, we were told that we could not detain a person, search a person or their belongings, chase anyone, or even stop anyone.

We were taught to ask politely for them to stop. If they didn't then we were supposed to ask again firmly, but still politely for them to stop, and if they still didn't then we were told to just let them go and write up a report. We have no authority to stop, search, or detain anyone. We can ask. But we can't make them do anything.

The ONLY time you could do that was if they committed a felony (has to be a felony) literally right in front of you. If you didn't see them commit it then you couldn't do anything. But if you saw them then you could detain them so you could make a citizen's arrest. And even then the company training me was like, "ehhhhhhh. let's hope it never comes to that."

 

[Seurat]

Seems like pretty much everything.

 

[intothewoods]

When I went through security guard training, we were told that we could not detain a person, search a person or their belongings, chase anyone, or even stop anyone.

We were taught to ask politely for them to stop. If they didn't then we were supposed to ask again firmly, but still politely for them to stop, and if they still didn't then we were told to just let them go and write up a report. We have no authority to stop, search, or detain anyone. We can ask. But we can't make them do anything.

The ONLY time you could do that was if they committed a felony (has to be a felony) literally right in front of you. If you didn't see them commit it then you couldn't do anything. But if you saw them then you could detain them so you could make a citizen's arrest. And even then the company training me was like, "ehhhhhhh. let's hope it never comes to that."

Sorry, that should have said "not probable cause." I'm tired. What you write is exactly my understanding and what I described in an earlier post.

 

[intothewoods]

Fine, build it. Can we get a permit for a Christian center in Mecca you think? You really want to rally conservatives you should build the biggest mosque in the world right on ground zero.

Why did Harry say basically fuck you, Obama? Because his switchboard was lit up with calls 10-1 against the mosque. I mean Jesus, I realize Obama is the least experienced president in modern history but doesn't he know when to stick to "it's a local issue" line?

Build it a mile away and the story would fade into nothing. That would seem to me to be in your best interest.

Most churches here have family centers and basketball courts but they don't have room for 2000 to pray. And they aren't called community centers, but churches. Leave off the 2000 seat prayer room or call it what it is. A mosque.

See satin's answer below. And visit a JCC in a big city - similar set-up.

No. But then again...Mecca isn't in the US, and therefore, isn't subject to US laws. They don't have the nifty Church-State separation thingie that we do.

 

[Seurat]

When I went through security guard training, we were told that we could not detain a person, search a person or their belongings, chase anyone, or even stop anyone.

We were taught to ask politely for them to stop. If they didn't then we were supposed to ask again firmly, but still politely for them to stop, and if they still didn't then we were told to just let them go and write up a report. We have no authority to stop, search, or detain anyone. We can ask. But we can't make them do anything.

The ONLY time you could do that was if they committed a felony (has to be a felony) literally right in front of you. If you didn't see them commit it then you couldn't do anything. But if you saw them then you could detain them so you could make a citizen's arrest. And even then the company training me was like, "ehhhhhhh. let's hope it never comes to that."

Our officers get pretty much the same deal, but with a nifty self defense training program thrown in. Usually, if they are asking somebody not to leave, the police are already on the way and it is nothing more than a delaying tactic. But should they be touched/poked/prodded/etc. in an aggressive manner, they can take the person down. Cameras everywhere make for a good backup in court.

 

[WriterDom]

Remember Matthew Shepard? The gay student who was killed in Wyoming? What if a conservative Baptist church wanted to build a church on the site where he died? Would that be a first amendment right or too insensitive to gay people? After all, they could build a church anywhere.

As long as 6 out of 10 New Yorkers want it gone, then they can move it down the road. They are the ones who had to watch over 100 people leap to their death and the ones who buried friends and relatives. It's not a lot to ask if you think about it.

 

[intothewoods]

Remember Matthew Shepard? The gay student who was killed in Wyoming? What if a conservative Baptist church wanted to build a church on the site where he died? Would that be a first amendment right or too insensitive to gay people? After all, they could build a church anywhere.

As long as 6 out of 10 New Yorkers want it gone, then they can move it down the road. They are the ones who had to watch over 100 people leap to their death and the ones who buried friends and relatives. It's not a lot to ask if you think about it.

On the site or two blocks away? I wouldn't have a problem with a church two blocks away from the parking lot where that happened. I don't know what's there now on the site.

I think the folks right in that neighborhood should be heard.

 

[Lady Reiha]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs194.snc1/6560_124965254913_506309913_2300961_5133408_n.jpg