What pissed you off today?

[JMohegan]

Fine, build it. Can we get a permit for a Christian center in Mecca you think? You really want to rally conservatives you should build the biggest mosque in the world right on ground zero.

Why did Harry say basically fuck you, Obama? Because his switchboard was lit up with calls 10-1 against the mosque. I mean Jesus, I realize Obama is the least experienced president in modern history but doesn't he know when to stick to "it's a local issue" line?

Build it a mile away and the story would fade into nothing. That would seem to me to be in your best interest.

Most churches here have family centers and basketball courts but they don't have room for 2000 to pray. And they aren't called community centers, but churches. Leave off the 2000 seat prayer room or call it what it is. A mosque.

Reid wimped out because it is more important to him to get reelected than to stand up for the principles on which this nation was founded.

And his switchboard lit up because 9/11 turned a huge percentage of Americans into terrified weenies, so scared of a bunch of middle eastern thugs that they'd rather piss on the Constitution than stand up and defend it.

Christ, this is embarrassinng. Guaranteed bin laden, if he's still alive, is laughing his ass off.

 

[JMohegan]

Remember Matthew Shepard? The gay student who was killed in Wyoming? What if a conservative Baptist church wanted to build a church on the site where he died? Would that be a first amendment right or too insensitive to gay people? After all, they could build a church anywhere.

As long as 6 out of 10 New Yorkers want it gone, then they can move it down the road. They are the ones who had to watch over 100 people leap to their death and the ones who buried friends and relatives. It's not a lot to ask if you think about it.

Why do you persist with this "on the site" crap? Are you deliberately trying to spread the lie, or do you just not understand the facts?

 

[WriterDom]

Why do you persist with this "on the site" crap? Are you deliberately trying to spread the lie, or do you just not understand the facts?

You are correct. My bad. 200 miles away. Oh wait, no, 20 miles away. No, 2 miles away. Wait, could this be right? Two blocks away? I can hit a golf ball two blocks. A wedge with a good bounce even. Parts of the fucking plane even hit the building.

 

[JMohegan]

You are correct. My bad. 200 miles away. Oh wait, no, 20 miles away. No, 2 miles away. Wait, could this be right? Two blocks away? I can hit a golf ball two blocks. A wedge with a good bounce even. Parts of the fucking plane even hit the building.

Did you know there's a Staples even closer? A Staples.... where they sell box cutters!

Also true (but on a more serious note) - WD, did you know that the Islamic Center is being planned by moderate Muslims, hated by the radicals, and NOT by radicals themselves?

 

[Stella_Omega]

No. But then again...Mecca isn't in the US, and therefore, isn't subject to US laws. They don't have the nifty Church-State separation thingie that we do.

And Mecca IS a church, in essence. It isn't a big multi-cultural city, that was Multi cultural from day one. (1)

 

[satindesire]

You are correct. My bad. 200 miles away. Oh wait, no, 20 miles away. No, 2 miles away. Wait, could this be right? Two blocks away? I can hit a golf ball two blocks. A wedge with a good bounce even. Parts of the fucking plane even hit the building.

As I said before about this subject....this isn't about feelings. Or being sensitive. Or being 'right' morally.

Is it legal?

Yes?

Then we have NO RIGHT to EXPECT the GOVERNMENT to stop it.

We can protest with signs, with can whine about it on the intertubez, but it's still legal. Until 'good taste' becomes a non-subjective thing that can be defined easily by vast numbers of people that all agree on the same thing, the law's gonna stay as is.

 

[WriterDom]

Did you know there's a Staples even closer? A Staples.... where they sell box cutters!

Also true (but on a more serious note) - WD, did you know that the Islamic Center is being planned by moderate Muslims, hated by the radicals, and NOT by radicals themselves?

Did you know the main guy behind the center, I won't call it a mosque since it only seats 2000 in the prayer room to keep ITTWs happy, wants sharì'a law to apply? That means you get to protest both gay marriage denial and stoning on the same day!

And I didn't say it was on site, I said you could build the biggest mosque in the world on site and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Maybe if the people of New York wanted it, you'd be against it. Since you love nanny government and want to tell Texas how big to build their football stadium and Arizona how to deal with illegals, and Alaskans what they can do with their oil.

I just wonder why republicans are only up 12 points on the generic congressional ballot these days with how things are being run in Washington. If you think you are better off today than you were five and half years ago when these clowns took office, then vote democrat. You deserve it.

 

[WriterDom]

600 feet from ground zero. When liberals avoid facts and start talking about Target, you know the facts aren't happy ones. Two football fields away.

 

[intothewoods]

It's just nonsensical, WD. Have you ever been to downtown Manhattan? Ground zero? It's a busy, bustling place. New Yorkers I've met who lived through 9/11 were profoundly changed, but the city moves on. Two blocks away is another universe, although even the site itself doesn't feel so "hallowed" because nothing is really there as a memorial.

Sharia law likely means no pork served, closed for certainholidays, etc. Just like halachic law applies at a JCC.

 

[WriterDom]

It's just nonsensical, WD. Have you ever been to downtown Manhattan? Ground zero? It's a busy, bustling place. New Yorkers I've met who lived through 9/11 were profoundly changed, but the city moves on. Two blocks away is another universe, although even the site itself doesn't feel so "hallowed" because nothing is really there as a memorial.

Sharia law likely means no pork served, closed for certainholidays, etc. Just like halachic law applies at a JCC.

So the world record holder at 200 meters could run from the mosque and I'm sorry but we have churches with swimming pools and basketball courts but we still call them churches, in less than 20 seconds. That should put things into perspective. 19 seconds away by foot. Might take you two minutes to walk over at a leisurely senior pace. That might not be AT ground zero but about as close as humanly possible. And that's the whole point right? To be at ground zero?

I'm just saying lets be honest about it. It is pretty much at ground zero, no?

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

having to be tested for cancer

 

[JMohegan]

Did you know the main guy behind the center, I won't call it a mosque since it only seats 2000 in the prayer room to keep ITTWs happy, wants sharì'a law to apply?

Link, please.

Here's one of mine.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/index.html


Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims, but serving the community as a whole.

"It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."

The need for the center is twofold, Khan said, because it will support the needs of the growing Muslim community.

"The time for a center like this has come because Islam is an American religion," Khan said. "We need to take the 9/11 tragedy and turn it into something very positive."

 

[intothewoods]

So the world record holder at 200 meters could run from the mosque and I'm sorry but we have churches with swimming pools and basketball courts but we still call them churches, in less than 20 seconds. That should put things into perspective. 19 seconds away by foot. Might take you two minutes to walk over at a leisurely senior pace. That might not be AT ground zero but about as close as humanly possible. And that's the whole point right? To be at ground zero?

I'm just saying lets be honest about it. It is pretty much at ground zero, no?

I have no reason to be anything but honest.

Having been to plenty of Jewish community centers in large cities that are EXACTLY LIKE THIS, it seems perfectly normal to me to call it a center. A synagogue is a place that is primarily a house of worship. Same with a mosque. I personally wouldn't care if it were just a mosque, since Islam did not attack us on 9/11, radical Muslims did. It just makes the arguments on the other side seem even more prejudiced, since one of the missions of the Cordoba Center is to create and maintain dialogue with other religions and cultures. If this were a mosque run by Anwar al-Awlaki, then the critics would have a point. But it's very clear that this center is the antithesis of radical, separatist Islam.

As far as the location goes, I don't know how else to explain this to you. NYC is jam-packed. Ground zero is one spot -- once you step away from it, you've got eight zillion other things that have nothing to do with ground zero or keeping its memory. New Yorkers walk by on their way to work every day without a second thought about it. Frankly, a center like this could be an excellent source of dialogue and healing -- much better than a strip club, Staples, lingerie store, knife shop, etc etc etc. The arguments based on its location are just unfounded because (1) there are eight zillion other things in the same space that have nothing to do with respect for "hallowed ground," (2) we weren't attacked by Muslims but radical Muslims, (3) this is a center that has clearly distanced itself from radical Islam.

The American reaction to this is one of the most troubling things I've experienced in a very, long time. I cannot believe this is America 2010. It has shaken me to my core -- I don't normally spend a lot of time crying about politics (though I will say that satin's posts really made my day - she gets it). This is just fucked up shit. It's racism, xenophobia, prejudice and hatred. It wasn't so long ago that this was directed at Jews. I can only hope that in 50 years American Muslims will be treated like American Jews are today. Far from perfect, but all in all we do pretty darn well.

 

[intothewoods]

Link, please.

Here's one of mine.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/index.html


Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims, but serving the community as a whole.

"It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."

The need for the center is twofold, Khan said, because it will support the needs of the growing Muslim community.

"The time for a center like this has come because Islam is an American religion," Khan said. "We need to take the 9/11 tragedy and turn it into something very positive."

I'm telling you, it means they're not serving pork in the cafe. If you rent out a hall for a party, your caterer will need to serve halal meat. Stuff like that.

 

[JMohegan]

600 feet from ground zero. When liberals avoid facts and start talking about Target, you know the facts aren't happy ones. Two football fields away.

You're missing the point, WD.

The point is that I honestly don't see the Islamic Center (mosque + pool, etc.) as any more threatening or insulting than a synagogue or a church. I don't believe that the 9/11 murderers represent all of Islam, and I don't believe that Muslim Americans are any more likely to be murderers than Catholic Americans, Protestant Americans, Jewish Americans, agnostic Americans, or anyone else.

Further, I fail to see the wisdom in ostracizing, insulting, and villifying all Muslims, simply because there are some murderers who ID as such. It's not only unethical, it's just plain stupid. The more we treat them like pariahs, the more we drive Muslims on the fringe to become that which we most fear and despise.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm telling you, it means they're not serving pork in the cafe. If you rent out a hall for a party, your caterer will need to serve halal meat. Stuff like that.

I believe you. I'm just interested to see where WD's getting his information.

 

[satindesire]

It has shaken me to my core -- I don't normally spend a lot of time crying about politics (though I will say that satin's posts really made my day - she gets it). This is just fucked up shit.

*curtsey* Thank you ma'am.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So the world record holder at 200 meters could run from the mosque and I'm sorry but we have churches with swimming pools and basketball courts but we still call them churches, in less than 20 seconds. That should put things into perspective. 19 seconds away by foot. Might take you two minutes to walk over at a leisurely senior pace. That might not be AT ground zero but about as close as humanly possible. And that's the whole point right? To be at ground zero?

I'm just saying lets be honest about it. It is pretty much at ground zero, no?

No honey, it really is not at ground zero.

Have you ever been to New York?

 

[midwestyankee]

I wonder how loudly Palin and her ilk would cry if a Presbyterian church wanted to erect a worship center within two blocks of the former Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. After all, Timothy McVeigh was a Presbyterian and by Palin logic we should all be cowering in our shoes that the Presbyterians are out to bring down America.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I'm just saying lets be honest about it. It is pretty much at ground zero, no?

Along with another mosque and strip club:

Yet there is already a mosque two blocks north of the Cordoba House site, Masjid Manhattan, which has been open since 1970.

As several commentators have pointed out, there is also a strip club – New York Dolls – just one block north of the mosque site. No one has complained about that profaning of the sacred.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Why stop the mosque though? What does it prove or show?

Part of the reason for the attack was a hatred for America and America's acceptance of different religions, views, genders, cultures, ethnicities, etc.

So if it were up to me I would put a mosque there. Then I would put a synagogue next to that, a church next to that, a Jewish community center next to that, a Palestinian community center next to that, a woman's rights center next to that, a GBLT center next to that, an African American community center next to that, a Hispanic community center next to that, and so on.

That would be the best "FUCK YOU" to the terrorists and those who think that an attack on America will makes us give up and stop being who we are.

Stopping the mosque will not do that. If anything it will give the terrorists more "proof" to show new recruits that America "hates" Muslims.

 

[prnstartmntj]

Waiting inline at the RMV.

 

[WriterDom]

I wonder how loudly Palin and her ilk would cry if a Presbyterian church wanted to erect a worship center within two blocks of the former Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. After all, Timothy McVeigh was a Presbyterian and by Palin logic we should all be cowering in our shoes that the Presbyterians are out to bring down America.

What blog did you get that from? His father was Catholic and took him to mass but later he described himself as agnostic. In his own words. He also said this:



"If people say The Turner Diaries was my Bible, Unintended Consequences would be my New Testament. I think Unintended Consequences is a better book. It might have changed my whole plan of operation if I'd read that one first."

Now Obama is Muslim because of Muslim law which says you take the faith of your father but Christians and Catholics have no such belief. He was an agnostic which would have put him in fine company with liberals had he not hated the government.

It was only a matter of time before someone brought up the white guy who blew up something 15 years ago while Muslims blow someone up every 15 minutes or so.

Is this the playground? Nanny nanny neener, Tim did it too!

I'm only glad Bush was around to make sure he was dead before he could cheer 9/11 from his bunk in jail like he would have had Gore would had been in office.

 

[WriterDom]

No honey, it really is not at ground zero.

Have you ever been to New York?

Have you ever been to Home Depot? Go look at a yardstick. It's 200 yards away. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[midwestyankee]

What blog did you get that from? His father was Catholic and took him to mass but later he described himself as agnostic. In his own words. He also said this:



"If people say The Turner Diaries was my Bible, Unintended Consequences would be my New Testament. I think Unintended Consequences is a better book. It might have changed my whole plan of operation if I'd read that one first."

Now Obama is Muslim because of Muslim law which says you take the faith of your father but Christians and Catholics have no such belief. He was an agnostic which would have put him in fine company with liberals had he not hated the government.

It was only a matter of time before someone brought up the white guy who blew up something 15 years ago while Muslims blow someone up every 15 minutes or so.

Is this the playground? Nanny nanny neener, Tim did it too!

I'm only glad Bush was around to make sure he was dead before he could cheer 9/11 from his bunk in jail like he would have had Gore would had been in office.

I stand corrected on the religion of McVeigh. However, my error in no way legitimizes the notion that people of a given faith should be refused their rights as American citizens because of the political acts of others who share the same faith.

And you can take your ad hominem and stick it where it will never tan.