What's going on here?

[AG31]

@EmilyMiller said, "I really do wonder what some people are doing on a site that claims to be sex positive and includes Gay Male and Lesbian Sex as categories. The ill-informed anti-queer rhetoric is kinda pathetic, to say nothing of rude."

What does this mean?

I happen to have acquired a strong appreciation for male physicality very late in life. This ranges from their genitals to the subtle signals men of all persuasions and identities can give that tells me they're male. It helped me isolate those qualities when I found them in gay or cross dressing males.

When I first came to erotic web sites, and settled on AH, I kept looking for like minded females. I found almost none. I do find an acknowledgement of the reverse attitude, a liking for female physicality on the part of cis males. It's sort of taken as a given and mentioned in throwaways in a lot of threads. After a while I gave up looking.

I've certainly learned a lot about different ways of being sexual, and people have been, for the most part, very accepting of my ignorance based curiosity.

But I wonder if the (to me) small representation in AH of an appreciation for male physicality might have something to do with EmilyMiller's sentiment that I quoted above. When society broadens its acceptance of previously marginalized populations, is it still OK to celebrate what used to be the public norm? Celebrate without even mentioning other groups?

Edit: For the purposes of this post, I realize I'm treating gay men and lesbians as non-marginalized groups. Times they are a-change'n.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I like men - I live with one!

I don’t feel oppressed in my current, ostensibly heterosexual, bubble. Even when I was in lesbian relationships, both parties were kinda femme. So the worst we got was the occasional muttered comments while holding hands in public.

Some queer people suffer much more, which is kinda the point of standing up for queer rights.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

When I first came to erotic web sites, and settled on AH, I kept looking for like minded females. I found almost none. I do find an acknowledgement of the reverse attitude, a liking for female physicality on the part of cis males. It's sort of taken as a given and mentioned in throwaways in a lot of threads. After a while I gave up looking.

I've also found zero people in the AH who enjoy the same type of stories as I do. And I've encountered very few people who share my morals and critical thinking.

And that's all fine. I'd rather share this place with people who think differently than with those who agree with me. It would be a boring AH for sure, and one where little new could be learned. Although I do regret not meeting anyone who shares my kinks/types of stories.

But I wonder if the (to me) small representation in AH of an appreciation for male physicality might have something to do with EmilyMiller's sentiment that I quoted above. When society broadens its acceptance of previously marginalized populations, is it still OK to celebrate what used to be the public norm? Celebrate without even mentioning other groups?

The simple truth is that people should just stop with the political shit, regardless of their place in the spectrum. The sanctimonious activism is tiring, and it often kills the sometimes interesting discussions. There is no need for it here. No one here, in the AH at least, is being oppressed. Well, aside from the few of us who dare to criticize Lit, but that's also fine. It comes with the territory, so to speak, and it's barely half of what it used to be just a few years back.

People should just chill the fuck out and stop being offended by everything.

 

[AG31]

I like men - I live with one!

I don’t feel oppressed in my current, ostensibly heterosexual, bubble. Even when I was in lesbian relationships, both parties were kinda femme. So the worst we got was the occasional muttered comments while holding hands in public.

Some queer people suffer much more, which is kinda the point of standing up for queer rights.

Why do you object to lesbian and gay categories? I didn't mean to suggest anything about your own preferences.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Why do you object to lesbian and gay categories? I didn't mean to suggest anything about your own preferences.

You are losing me I’m afraid. Where did I say I object to Lesbian and Gay categories?

I don’t read or write Gay Male as it’s neither of interest or relevant to my lived experience. But I have friends and colleagues who are gay men. And I know bisexual men here. Some of the nicest people here are bisexual men.

I both read and write Lesbian Sex as it’s both of interest and relevant to my own sexuality.

I think there is some confusion here.

I’m not sure where I said heterosexual attraction is wrong. I read and write hetero sex very frequently; it’s also relevant to my sexuality.

I just want homosexual attraction to have the same standing. That’s not a political stance (in most of the developed world) it’s a humanistic one.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I've also found zero people in the AH who enjoy the same type of stories as I do. And I've encountered very few people who share my morals and critical thinking.

And that's all fine. I'd rather share this place with people who think differently than with those who agree with me. It would be a boring AH for sure, and one where little new could be learned. Although I do regret not meeting anyone who shares my kinks/types of stories.



The simple truth is that people should just stop with the political shit, regardless of their place in the spectrum. The sanctimonious activism is tiring, and it often kills the sometimes interesting discussions. There is no need for it here. No one here, in the AH at least, is being oppressed. Well, aside from the few of us who dare to criticize Lit, but that's also fine. It comes with the territory, so to speak, and it's barely half of what it used to be just a few years back.

People should just chill the fuck out and stop being offended by everything.

Well said. Unfortunately, as the OPs quote makes clear, there are people who can't comprehend being around things they disagree with, hence the constant performative outrage.

As a wise man said:

 

[Britva415]

When society broadens its acceptance of previously marginalized populations, is it still OK to celebrate what used to be the public norm? Celebrate without even mentioning other groups?

Did you think that you were who she was referring to?

 

[Britva415]

Why do you object to lesbian and gay categories? I didn't mean to suggest anything about your own preferences.

I can tell that she's not objecting to those categories, I can tell that she's calling out people who are, paradoxically, here at Literotica and who DO vocally object to those categories and those people.

I don't know how you get from seeing her calling out "ill-informed anti-queer rhetoric" to simultaneously believing that she objects to the queer content, herself.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

When society broadens its acceptance of previously marginalized populations, is it still OK to celebrate what used to be the public norm? Celebrate without even mentioning other groups?

Unfortunately, some people do seem to see it as a zero sum game, and choose to be offended by things. Tennessee decided to designate a "Nuclear Family Month" and people came out of the woodwork to complain.
We have to be careful what choices we celebrate, in the name of tolerance... don'tcha know!

 

[Britva415]

there are people who can't comprehend being around things they disagree with, hence the constant performative outrage

Boy, doesn't that knife cut both ways.

Fred Phelps: "God doesn't really hate fags, that's just performative rhetoric. C'mon guy!"

And same with the Tennessee thing. That's performative AF, and absolutely motivated by outrage.

 

[EmilyMiller]

to simultaneously believing that she objects to the queer content, herself.

Or - given I make no secret of being in a monogamous heterosexual relationship (see my BlueSky profile FFS) - why I would object to women appreciating men . I do.

 

[CalBishForNow]

Unfortunately, some people do seem to see it as a zero sum game, and choose to be offended by things. Tennessee decided to designate a "Nuclear Family Month" and people came out of the woodwork to complain.
We have to be careful what choices we celebrate, in the name of tolerance... don'tcha know!

Are you serious? Tennessee didn't "just happen" to want to celebrate nuclear families; people supporting it are literally saying "homosexuality has no place in America." And they're doing it in June, to compete with Pride Month? Ignoring the obvious ways this is intended to slight LGBT people would be moronic.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Are you serious? Tennessee didn't "just happen" to want to celebrate nuclear families; people supporting it are literally saying "homosexuality has no place in America." And they're doing it in June, to compete with Pride Month? Ignoring the obvious ways this is intended to slight LGBT people would be moronic.

How does it "slight them"?
If you don't want a Nuclear Family celebration, don't have one.
No one is forcing you to do anything.

 

[NotWise]

Are there multiple levels of misunderstandings on this thread?

But I wonder if the (to me) small representation in AH of an appreciation for male physicality might have something to do with EmilyMiller's sentiment that I quoted above. When society broadens its acceptance of previously marginalized populations, is it still OK to celebrate what used to be the public norm? Celebrate without even mentioning other groups?

It is still OK to celebrate the norm. In AH, it isn't okay to scorn other people because their tastes are different, and I don't see that behavior as much as Em apparently does. I would love to see that concept applied on a broader scale, but the population doesn't seem to be up to that yet.

I'm confused, I guess, by @AG31's failure to find other women who appreciate male physicality. My failure to understand exactly what she means may be responsible for my confusion. I understand that het women (most women) have a fairly keen appreciation for masculine characteristics. Their appreciation is usually a little guarded because of the need for personal security, and jaded by the behavior of some men.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Boy, doesn't that knife cut both ways.

Fred Phelps: "God doesn't really hate fags, that's just performative rhetoric. C'mon guy!"

And same with the Tennessee thing. That's performative AF, and absolutely motivated by outrage.

If you have to jump all the way to an extremist like Fred Phelps... you've already lost the argument.

Unfortunately some people always need a boogeyman...

 

[CalBishForNow]

How does it "slight them"?
If you don't want a Nuclear Family celebration, don't have one.
No one is forcing you to do anything.

And if you don't want a gay relationship, don't have one. Simple!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

And if you don't want a gay relationship, don't have one. Simple!

Exactly!
If you don't want a gun, don't buy one!

 

[Britva415]

If you have to jump all the way to an extremist like Fred Phelps... you've already lost the argument.

Unfortunately some people always need a boogeyman...

My boogeyman is anyone who calls people they disagree with "performative" while not looking critically at behaviors and statements they do agree with. This isn't me saying "you agree with Fred Phelps," this is me saying anyone can be called performative and it doesn't make it true.

But the Tennessee thing is. 100%.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

My boogeyman is anyone who calls people they disagree with "performative" while not looking critically at behaviors and statements they do agree with. This isn't me saying "you agree with Fred Phelps," this is me saying anyone can be called performative and it doesn't make it true.

But the Tennessee thing is. 100%.

And it doesn't mean it isn't true...

When people respond with the same tired clichés every time...

 

[AG31]

For the purposes of this post, I realize I'm treating gay men and lesbians as non-marginalized groups. Times they are a-change'n.

 

[AG31]

You are losing me I’m afraid. Where did I say I object to Lesbian and Gay categories?

I don’t read or write Gay Male as it’s neither of interest or relevant to my lived experience. But I have friends and colleagues who are gay men. And I know bisexual men here. Some of the nicest people here are bisexual men.

I both read and write Lesbian Sex as it’s both of interest and relevant to my own sexuality.

I think there is some confusion here.

I’m not sure where I said heterosexual attraction is wrong. I read and write hetero sex very frequently; it’s also relevant to my sexuality.

I just want homosexual attraction to have the same standing. That’s not a political stance (in most of the developed world) it’s a humanistic one.

How do you explain what you said in the quote I included in the OP?

 

[AG31]

I like men - I live with one!

I don’t feel oppressed in my current, ostensibly heterosexual, bubble. Even when I was in lesbian relationships, both parties were kinda femme. So the worst we got was the occasional muttered comments while holding hands in public.

Some queer people suffer much more, which is kinda the point of standing up for queer rights.

It's clear that I'm misunderstanding what you said in the quote. But I still don't understand what you meant to convey.

 

[Seurat]

How do you explain what you said in the quote I included in the OP?

I read your quote of EM (no context as to what she was replying) to mean that she was a little irritated with people coming to a site that claims 'sex positive' and then picking fights/making rude comments about something not CIS. We used to call them trolls; is that term still used? You don't wear a Cowboys jersey to an Eagles game unless your looking for confrontation, and you don't come to a sex-positive sight and start shit about non-CIS unless you're being a dipshit.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's clear that I'm misunderstanding what you said in the quote. But I still don't understand what you meant to convey.

I really do wonder what some people are doing on a site that claims to be sex positive and includes Gay Male and Lesbian Sex as categories.

Literotica is a broad church, but one meant to be united by sex positivity. Just look at the front page. It’s also an inclusive site. It has places for stories about homosexual men and lesbian women (not bisexual men and women, but that’s another story). Why would someone be here and start pushing anti-queer rhetoric, when gay men and lesbians are welcome to read and write here? When some of our best writers are gay and - yes - bisexual.

The ill-informed anti-queer rhetoric is kinda pathetic, to say nothing of rude.

I can’t really see what is not self-explanatory about this (nor the first sentence either really, if I’m 100% honest, but ). Other people seem to have understood just fine. Hence why I say I’m lost.

 

[AG31]

I read your quote of EM (no context as to what she was replying) to mean that she was a little irritated with people coming to a site that claims 'sex positive' and then picking fights/making rude comments about something not CIS. We used to call them trolls; is that term still used? You don't wear a Cowboys jersey to an Eagles game unless your looking for confrontation, and you don't come to a sex-positive sight and start shit about non-CIS unless you're being a dipshit.

Thanks. That makes sense if one includes the bit about people trolling those sites.