Who can clearly state the current Democrat position on Iraq?

[garbage can]

You can't be serious? If this was a "political war" We would not need our military. Political war is, you know, sanctions, and the like.

Of course it's a political war, just like vietnam.

Just ask NBC, NYT, WP, They know it's a political war.

 

[unregistered]

 

[zipman]

Babes in the woods they are. All parameters of the war are governed by politics.

Instead of trying to be cute, how about addressing any of the issues that I've raised in this thread.

Or would that require you to actually substantiate a position for which there is no evidence to support it?

 

[unregistered]

 

[woody54]

It's very obvious from the statements of his own Parliament (what's left of it) that the Iraqi government is on the verge of collapse. Very little political progress has been made on key legislation and several political parties have given that as the reason for their departure.

If Maliki can't pull a fucking miracle out of his hat and get the delegates who have left the parliament (the largest Sunni political bloc, some Shia loyal to Moqtada al-Sadr, and now three secular delegates) back in there he is going to be facing a very tough go of it.

It matters very little what any of our politicians say about the matter, Maliki's own Parliament is revolting against what they call his divisive leadership style.

If you translate your critique into on-the-ground reality. we have the iraqi government neutered by overbearing US political control at every level. They can't even accept a foreign dignitary's visit without first clearing it with the US military and then seeking approval from the US embassy. So much for political credibility and independence.

In this we have the proof that the US is totally responsible for the quagmire of Iraqi politics.

To expect Maliki to pull a rabbit out of the hat to suit US policy is just a measure of how distanced from reality that US politicians are. They forget that Iraqi dont fucking want to be told how to run their own country and especially not how to divest themselves of their oil wealth bexause a greedy occupier sees it as a good idea for their own long term interests.

The longer the Iraqis keep the unstable security state going, the better their long term outcome will be. You Americans keep sending your sons over and they will keep blowing them up ad infinitum. If you cant see that, you do not understand your target. Just buy your oil like real people and everyone wins.

 

[Lost Cause]

This grade school shit made me laugh!

It's too bad the originator is serious~

http://duffmaru.freeservers.com/timecover.jpg

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

LOL, okay, let's look at facts.

1) In Quebec (on August 21st) Bush said the following "President Bush acknowledged a mood of "frustration" hanging over Iraq's fractious, paralyzed government Tuesday. Speaking at a news conference in Canada where he was meeting with the leaders of Canada and Mexico, Bush said Iraqi leaders had made some progress. But he said the government has "got to do more."

"The Iraqi people made a great step toward reconciliation when they passed the most modern constitution in the Middle East, and now their government's got to perform.

"And I think there's a certain level of frustration with the leadership in general, inability to work -- come together to get, for example, an oil revenue law passed or provincial elections," Bush said.

He said the "fundamental question" facing Iraqis is, "Will the government respond to the demands of the people?"
"If the government doesn't demand -- or respond to the demands of the people, they will replace the government," he said. "That's up to the Iraqis to make that decision, not American politicians."

First off, there is no oil sharing revenue as you proclaimed recently. Secondly, Bush is not calling on the Iraqi people to stand behind Maliki, but to throw him out if he doesn't do more.

2) John Warner (republican) "I really, firmly believe the Iraqi government, under the leadership of Prime Minister (Nouri) al-Maliki, let our troops down," Warner said."

Doesn't sound like democrats but republicans criticizing his performance.

3) A powerhouse Republican lobbying firm with close ties to the White House has begun a public campaign to undermine the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, CNN has confirmed.


I'm sure it's not surprising that your comments blaming democrats completely ignores republican criticism of Maliki. Do you really think anyone doesn't see through your partisan bullshit?

I just did a simple search on "Iraq Oil Revenues." Three of the articles pointed out that oil revenues go into a fund controlled by the United States of America. The only real reason they need get a deal in place, it is so international business will feel confident in doing business with them and not partaking in the perception that the US is lining its pockets...

When they get their deal in place is none of the business of the US Congress although they could be making sure they get the fraud out at our end, but they're not. It's easier to fuck up the weak than to take on the strong.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Instead of trying to be cute, how about addressing any of the issues that I've raised in this thread.

Or would that require you to actually substantiate a position for which there is no evidence to support it?

I'd be looking for more evidence to bolster my position there zip...

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

When you single out a particular person for blame, you just play inito their hands. Now you want to blame Maliki. It's Maliki's POLICIES!

The hell it is. It's the fucking heretics...

When I was still a member of what is probably best termed the British Jihadi Network, a series of semi-autonomous British Muslim terrorist groups linked by a single ideology, I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy.

By blaming the government for our actions, those who pushed the 'Blair's bombs' line did our propaganda work for us. More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2115832,00.html

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And, it's the PARLIMENT trying to hammer out a deal.

He's not the strong man in this government, just the figurehead. When you take him down, score another victory for the heretics of Islam, because they, again, escape all the blame...

 

[Lost Cause]

The first thing they did in 1974 was to give a no confidence vote to the the President of S. Vietnam......just before cutting the funding...and condemning a few hundred thousand to die.


Same formula, different day~

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

The Democrats have a problem.

No roadmap to success and an impending deadline of their own when they have to face up to the people they are ignoring in order to defeat Bush, and if that means losing Iraq and instigating a blood-bath, BRING IT ON!

 

[Ishmael]

The Democrats, and some Republicans, have long been harping about the nature of 'oil revenue sharing' in Iraq. I suspect that many get the impression that this merely involves how the monies are divied up and that the Shi'ah and the Kurds are trying to screw the Sunnis. The truth is far more complicated.

Iraqi oil revenue sharing

There is an entire framework of law to be put in place. The possible formation of a Iraqi National Oil Company, and a host of smaller details. To presume that revenues be shared assumes that there is a mechanism in place to collect those revenues and to ensure that that mechanism is protected and sustained. No such mechanism exists. That's what the Iraqi Council of Representatives is working on creating.

Today the projected oil revenues are thought to be $20bln/yr. The Iraqi governments budget is $18bln/yr. That would leave $2bln/yr to be 'shared.' Notice that the government budget DOES NOT include any monies for the maintenance and/or developement of the oil resources. Saddam allowed the oil infrastructure of the country to rot while he lined his own pockets. The Iraqi oil infrastructure is decrepit and getting worse daily. There are those that want to use the 'profit' to improve the peoples living conditions. And it's hard to argue against that goal, but that goal would be achieved by allowing the infrastructure to degrade even further meaning that less 'profit' would be available in the future while the costs of infrastructure repair/upgrade would continue to soar.

What the Iraqis are struggling with is by no means a simply resolved problem. And while their representatives, like ours, like to hear themselves talk on the floor of their respective legislative bodies, they aren't oil field experts, economists, infrastructure specialist, or any of the other experts that will be needed to review and comment on the proposed solutions.

Ishmael

 

[Lost Cause]

"f that means losing Iraq and instigating a blood-bath, BRING IT ON!"

We will never be forgiven if we lose this one~

http://www.johnmurphyforcongress.org/images/child%2520running2.jpeg

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And zip seeks to simplify it as if the Democrats could move in and get it done overnight, but if we were to base that on the ability of their current leadership to get anything done, then zippy's protests are the ones which seem hollow and partisan.

Because they won the right to change the course and that meant obviously giving up on legislation in favor of endless charges, speculations, and investigations.

It's a big deal to have one guy, Warner, on the team, but meaningless that Leiberman left long ago and Hillary is in the process...

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Aye LC.

If we had stuck up for South Vietnam, Lebanon, the Kurds, Somalia, pick one, a lot of this may never had come to pass, but we again, and again, signaled weakness and decadence, and it was a Siren's call the the worst elements of Islam.

 

[Lost Cause]

It's funny that people say that we can't change the history of the area with tribes, and are so willing to desert those that dream of a better day.

They forget that all modern civilizations began as tribes, clans, and alliances- Japan was one in recent history that we brought into the future through conflict.

The formula works if given time and is properly managed between force and diplomacy.

I don't want to walk away from the ones we can change forever to embrace peace over killing and death.

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~cdhall/img/GirlFlag.jpg

 

[Lost Cause]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/unite1776/Armysoeasyacaveman.jpg

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Aye aye and Semper Fi!

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

That's funny, grunt.

 

[Ishmael]

And zip seeks to simplify it as if the Democrats could move in and get it done overnight, but if we were to base that on the ability of their current leadership to get anything done, then zippy's protests are the ones which seem hollow and partisan.

Because they won the right to change the course and that meant obviously giving up on legislation in favor of endless charges, speculations, and investigations.

It's a big deal to have one guy, Warner, on the team, but meaningless that Leiberman left long ago and Hillary is in the process...

Yeah, well the 'intellectuals' are like marketing people. They see these staightforward and seemingly simple solutions and, generally speaking, don't have a fucking clue as to how to get there, the resources required, or the cost.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

It's almost panic-time at the DNC.

Maybe if they move some more primaries up...

 

[unregistered]

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

The Dem-o-Gags are long on criticism and short on alternatives except for bugging out over the horizon with afterburners aflame.

Should I give the answer to the question?

Official Democrat Position on Iraq: Whatever he [Bush] says, I'm opposed to, but I won't know what I'm opposed to until I hear it...




It's like porn. I know it when I see it, but don't ask me to define it.

 

[Jimi]

Fawk ME!

It's an Exaltation of Libertarianz!

Good Morning, Gentlemen, and Bowtie.

Even though you warmongerin' killers of innocent ragheads are WRONG, most of the time, I must agree, Andy_Jack.


The Dems are about as in touch with reality as Dick Cheney's veracity.