Why are middle-aged white Americans dying/killing themselves?

[Sean Renaud]

Considering the scope of things I don't really see the problem...

It's not a "problem" I'd rank this somewhere below black lives matter and somewhere above we found water on Mars. It's a fact and something that I don't mind knowing more about.

But I thought it was because they were people? LOL

Middle class white guys are by far the least liked people on/by the left. They are nothing but a bunch of no good oppressive racist shit stains.

Nope.Com. Middle class white guys are the bulk of the less. The 1% are oppressive, the middle class may not always be helping but they aren't the problem. And the "white trash" are simply too stupid to help themselves. Either that or they hate us so much they're willing to suffer if it fucks us over. I really want to believe it's stupidity/lack information but every election cycle I'm forced to question if the South is just filled with economic suicide bombers.

Any other day of the week the left wouldn't piss on that dumb redneck joe the plumber to put out a fire. Now all of a sudden concern troll from the left when some of them off themselves because they didn't get to be an astronaut even tho mommy promised? LOL whatever.

Dumb rednecks =/=white middle class. I do hate dumb rednecks, but it's not really about economics at that point, or even politics. Call me a crazy racist. I simply have a hard time looking past Confederate Flags and in a general sense I extend that to people from the South as a whole. But they do get the benefit (on a state level) of being judged primarily on their individual merits. But yeah if you've got a bumper sticker that reads "Union :1, Confederate 0; Half time is over" you might have to do something damn impressive for me to think you're not an evil moron.

Then why are they such hostile over the top control freaks seemingly doing everything they can to strangle them into China's hands???

Mostly because we care about people and the environment. The air in China is thick enough to eat with a spoon and every so often they have a factory burn down with people trapped inside. Forgive me for thinking that's unnacceptable.

IDK, I didn't read the whole thing either...I find it amusing this is even a topic, much less one discussed by this group of people.

It reeks of concern troll.

I agree it is mostly amusing. Somewhere this an article where scientists aren't entirely ruling out that we found aliens! (Which is rare, they generally shoot down that kind of nonsense out the gate) But some star out there keeps dimming and way too much for it to be a planet getting in the way.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The left hates industrial manufacturing, family farming and small business?

With a passion.

What do you base that on?

15/hr!!!! There goes that factory, off to China!

Obama is Monsanto's BFF.....he and a number of other dems hate family farms.

The left routinely pushes for more and more arbitrary cost incursion upon food production that are peanuts for bigger farms but strain the shit out of family farms.

They send LAPD after farmers markets for raw milk because people are too stupid to choose what they eat, more hate for the family farm.

Small business? 15/hr!! Full HC!! Child care and tuition re-reimbursement!!

Maybe big-bizcons and neoliberal globalizers are contemptuous of those sectors, but those are both very different things from the left.

I'll believe that as soon as you admit the GOP is very different from the right.

They aren't because the neolibs are who the left sends to represent them....the left will be the one who puts Hillary, Wall St. Dick sucking neolib Clinton in office instead of Sanders.

See Angry White Men: American Masculinity at the End of an Era, by Michael Kimmel. Kimmel's thesis is that AWM have bad reasons to be angry (a sense of "aggrieved entitlement") and good reasons to be angry (economic marginalization/dispossession), but in either case their anger is misdirected -- they are "sending their mail to the wrong address"; whoever or whatever is to blame for their troubles, it is not minorities or immigrants or feminists or liberals or biggummint.

Who cares? Fuck them and their masculinity.

And cut the bullshit, from Hollywood to DC white masculinity has been demonized since I was a kid and it was minorities, feminist and liberals who were doing it. There is no bigger an asshole, self entitled and over privileged demographic than the white male.

Now suddenly concerned for their feeling of self worth? LMFAO gimmie a break man.....grow a pair and own the accomplishment, have some follow through, fuck em more for everyone else.

Then why are you here?

Entertainment.....

Middle class whites are a threat?

Did the GOP get diversified or something?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yes 15 an hour. FUCK YEAH. And while we're at it tarrif China if necessary.

White masculinity demonized? ((Goes to watch the Avengers. . .oh wait they do have some black guys! They are totally there just to claim the team isn't all white males but it is a start. I'ma go watch Batma. . . Superm. . .The X-Men, they have a black chick!)) LEts not even get started on hispanics or non-ninja Asians.

Lets go look at government. . .oh wait.

No, sorry, that dog don't hunt. The concept that other people can be just as good as a white male does not equal white males being demonized.

No, the GOP did not diversify. That's kind of the beauty of being white christian in this country. You make up by any measure 50% of the nation and by most counts 70ish. You get to divide yourself further than that based on whatever arbitrary BS you want.

Unlike Asians who are generally spoken of as a group. Or Hispanics (trust me, calling a Cuban Mexican or a Mexican Cuban isn't a healthy life choice.) or Muslims. Muslims in America don't seem to keep very good track of that Sunni, Shite, Kurd when they get to the ballot box. They cannot. They lack the numbers. Sure perhaps one day if they get the numbers we'll see the Sunni South California Muslims vs the Shiite South Carolina Muslims but that simply isn't how things are NOW.

Maybe one day whites will be such a small group that ALL whites will vote in one direction to defend their interests. Instead of one group being made up entirely OF whites.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, that would be the 1%. Remember who OWS targeted -- and OWS had a lot of middle-class whites in it. (The 1% is, of course, almost entirely white, but the protest was focused on class, not race.)

OWS had a bunch of poor whites in it, the middle class were too busy working 70 hrs a week to go fuck around with OWS.

Rising rates of death from suicide and drug abuse among the middle-aged white working class do not please me. This is symptomatic of something seriously wrong with this society, and anything that seriously wrong is bad for all classes and races and generations.

Meh...sounds like a bunch of entitled white boys not dealing with the fact that not everyone can be a rock star very well.

. It's a fact and something that I don't mind knowing more about.

Nope.Com. Middle class white guys are the bulk of the less. The 1% are oppressive, the middle class may not always be helping but they aren't the problem.

Fair enough.

So Republicans aren't the problem? Because there are a fuck ton of them and they are almost all white and largely male and middle class.

Dumb rednecks =/=white middle class.

So what do you call Joe the plumber? And the other millions of Republicans?

Mostly because we care about people and the environment. The air in China is thick enough to eat with a spoon and every so often they have a factory burn down with people trapped inside. Forgive me for thinking that's unnacceptable.

So if you care about people and the environment then why support leaders who encourage sending all our manufacturing and even pressuring agriculture to China where all this nasty shit is happening so we can enjoy rock bottom prices here in the USA?

It's good for our economy that's why....at the end of the day we care more about our wallets than those poor Chinese folks or the environment. Yes even democrats...

I agree it is mostly amusing. Somewhere this an article where scientists aren't entirely ruling out that we found aliens! (Which is rare, they generally shoot down that kind of nonsense out the gate) But some star out there keeps dimming and way too much for it to be a planet getting in the way.

Dude I read about that, it's fuckin' crazy....how could would it be to be alive when mankind spots another civ? So totally fuckin' cool.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes 15 an hour. FUCK YEAH. And while we're at it tarrif China if necessary.

The problem is we DON'T tarrif China, big company says fuck 15/hr and buys an army of Chinese slaves doing their work for them for practically nothing while mom/pop gotta pay some nose picking spoiled American brat 15 fucking dollars an hr. Squeezing mom/pop ever harder.

No, sorry, that dog don't hunt. The concept that other people can be just as good as a white male does not equal white males being demonized.

You're right but that's not the concept.

What demonizes the white male is that his is the face of the enemy. Because 1% is white male all white males have life on E Z mode because born white male = oppressing everyone around him. So everyone else's woes are his fault/responsibility. I may have taken some nastier comments about eating rice for breakfast and the old man's funny eyes. But I've always been far far far more ashamed of my Caucasian than of my Asian.

Want to know why they are killing themselves? Because they either embrace hating and shaming themselves for being born white male and the bane of human existence or they are racist shit stains. Fuck I'd probably kill myself too if I had to live in that reality.

 

[PoppingTom]

So if you care about people and the environment then why support leaders who encourage sending all our manufacturing and even pressuring agriculture to China where all this nasty shit is happening so we can enjoy rock bottom prices here in the USA?

Is this a matter of the government? Or of the business?

Tell me why General Motors closed factories in America and rebuilt them in Mexico because of the wage, while at them same time, German brands built factories in America and payed even higher wages than GM and still don't close their fabrications in Germany ?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Is this a matter of the government? Or of the business?

Yes.

Tell me why General Motors closed factories in America and rebuilt them in Mexico because of the wage, while at them same time, German brands built factories in America and payed even higher wages than GM and still don't close their fabrications in Germany ?

Because when you employ Americans to build your cars we cut your car company a deal, when you try to mail us your products we fuck you in the ass with taxes.

We don't do that to China....China does that to us.

We SHOULD be fucking China up and offering them incentives to stop if they quit polluting so much and start taking care of their people.

But that would mean prices of goods in the US would be going UP big time....Gotta pay m'uricans with benefits and 'living wages' and environmental costs and employee safety cost and on and on and on instead of just buying slave labor at stupid cheap prices from the Chinese Iphones are going to cost 5,000 fuckin' dollars....and we can't have that.

So we are going to elect Hillary or Maybe some establishment pub and keep on exporting our slavery/pollution to China.

 

[PoppingTom]

Because when you employ Americans to build your cars we cut your car company a deal, when you try to mail us your products we fuck you in the ass with taxes.

We don't do that to China....China does that to us.

Maybe you can't do that to China, as China doesn't build cars seriously.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Maybe you can't do that to China, as China doesn't build cars seriously.

Cars, dildos, shoes, Tshirts.....doesn't matter.

Goods are goods.

 

[Sean Renaud]

-snip-​

You're right but that's not the concept.

What demonizes the white male is that his is the face of the enemy. Because 1% is white male all white males have life on E Z mode because born white male = oppressing everyone around him. So everyone else's woes are his fault/responsibility. I may have taken some nastier comments about eating rice for breakfast and the old man's funny eyes. But I've always been far far far more ashamed of my Caucasian than of my Asian.

Want to know why they are killing themselves? Because they either embrace hating and shaming themselves for being born white male and the bane of human existence or they are racist shit stains. Fuck I'd probably kill myself too if I had to live in that reality.

His is the face of quite literally everything but rap and professional sports! The fact that all the bad guys in Bond films are white (except that one Asian guy in the movie that ended the Bronsnan era) doesn't change the fact that Bond is still white! Nor politiclaly does a bunch of Republicans (of varying levels, they weren't all terribad) make up for the fact that most of the major leaders of the Dems are white as well.

No, not all whites are born on EZ street and nobody is saying that. Just that all things else equal it is "easier" there is a difference. And yes some of what's wrong does fall collectively to whites.

I don't see how anybody could ever be ashamed of being white save in very specific contexts. You basically conquered the goddamn world? The fuck else do you want?

Again they have such a broad pool that "You know I didn't mean you" actually applies. Nobody asks whites to apologize every time a white person does something wrong. (A white COP yes, but not whites in general) nobody asks why some white guy shot up a school or tried to blow up the a building. The concept that it's because he's white doesn't even exist. Blacks? C'mon if something goes wrong the first thing we have to state is "Whatever JEsse Jackson said he doesn't speak for me. That includes the sun came up." Nobody brings up the concept that Bush did things in the Middle East because he's a Chrsitian or asks Christians to aplogize but all we hear all day is how moderate muslims need to do this that and the other so that we don't persecute them all.

So yeah. . sorry not buying that crap.

 

[BotanyBoy]

His is the face of quite literally everything but rap and professional sports! The fact that all the bad guys in Bond films are white (except that one Asian guy in the movie that ended the Bronsnan era) doesn't change the fact that Bond is still white! Nor politiclaly does a bunch of Republicans (of varying levels, they weren't all terribad) make up for the fact that most of the major leaders of the Dems are white as well.

None of that changes the fact that the one group of people you can be openly racist/sexist towards and have it be cool? White guys...fuck them.

No, not all whites are born on EZ street and nobody is saying that.

They act like it.

Just that all things else equal it is "easier" there is a difference. And yes some of what's wrong does fall collectively to whites.

PFFFT HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! no....that might be what YOU are saying but that's not the general sentiment of the left.

I don't see how anybody could ever be ashamed of being white.

You are responsible for slavery, you are responsible for genocide, you are responsible for thousands of years of patriarchy, your skin color, genitals and the privilege that come with it are why women and minorities are so oppressed.
And if you don't agree with that you're just a racist/sexist shit stain.....

I'm every bit the minority oppressing wife beater because my mom is Nordic, if I don't accept that I'm a racist shit stain.

I just go with being Asian because it's way more neutral and less offensive. Mutt privilege

White pride = racism

Male pride = patriarchy!!

Any other kind of pride?= diversity LOL

So yeah. . sorry not buying that crap.

I didn't expect you to, you don't ever buy anything that doesn't shine (D) in a holy light.

Doesn't change the fact that white boy is the only group it's ok to be racist/sexist towards, talk racist/sexist shit to and they are EXPECTED to take it.

Why stop now because the sad ones are starting to off themselves? Fuck it pile on the hate.....they are getting all the good so they might as well pay for it right?

 

[KingOrfeo]

ISTM, Bot, that you are here rather desperately and preposterously and pathetically reaching for what George Will has called "the coveted status of victimhood."

 

[BotanyBoy]

ISTM, Bot, that you are here rather desperately and preposterously and pathetically reaching for what George Will has called "the coveted status of victimhood."

No I already have that as an minority oppressed by white males.

What I'm reaching for is for you to cut the concerned act because middle class white lives don't fucking matter...they are the least cared for lives on a public level.

The more of them that can't cope with the fact that they are just low level privileged oppressors and off themselves the better it is for women/minorities.

 

[JackLuis]

This conversation points out that the oppressed assume that since A White Male picked on their shit, then ALL White Males are the same.

Just like JBJ, they transfer their feelings for one of a group to ALL of a like group.

That's what the education system we have deconstructed has given us.

 

[dan_c00000]

The left hates industrial manufacturing, family farming and small business?

With a passion.

This is where you've got to completely ignore botany bitch.

Labor unions, like the UAW, give more money to Democrats.

So that destroys his case against manufacturing.

Family farming is so broadly defined even massive farms are included in government statistics. Anway, the teahadistGOP has lost them because the GOP is now owned by Wall Street and racist clowns.

So that's point number two wrecked.

Finally, small business. The supposed GOP base. Well not really because if you look at data you'll see that most small business owners try to vote for the candidates that will give their business the best deals or most money. So even though more small business owners identity as Republican 79% don't vote straight along party lines.

What's interesting is that if you look at the previous page on that survey you'll notice small business folks gave money to Democrats than to Republicans.

See because botany bitch tries to feel the news at you doesn't mean you should believe him. Because he literally knows shit about shit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

This is where you've got to completely ignore botany bitch.

Says the guy who thinks manufacturing is alive and well because a union gave money to (D).....and (D) loves heavy industry!!! Only republicans push that shit over to China.

LMFAO you're a delusional partisan idiot Dan.

 

[dan_c00000]

Says the guy who thinks manufacturing is alive and well because a union gave money to (D).....and (D) loves heavy industry!!!

I never said that. Since you clearly can't read (where's your mom doesn't she normally read this shit to you?) I'll explain it in very small words so your pencil dicked brain can understand it:

Unions -all unions- prefer Democratic candidates because unions know Dems will like them more.

See how I never said "heavy industry is doing great!" See how those words weren't in there?

That was another total ass wrecking I gave you. As always,

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/27921402.jpg

 

[BotanyBoy]

Unions -all unions- prefer Democratic candidates because unions know Dems will like them more.

And how does that prove what I said was wrong?

Right it doesn't.... because libhurhuls HATE manufacturing, family farms and small business. They are totally hostile to them. OH they will take union money and smile while lying talking about all the good benefits they are going to force these companies to give them. Only to lose their job to China 6 months later because that factory just isn't, CAN'T afford that shit with the current trade agreements we have with China and a few other shit holes. No one hates the blue collared folks like Democrats, they want to send their jobs to some slave in a 3rd world hole and put them on welfare.

Hope and change!! Vote Hillary!! LOL....suckers.
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/27921402.jpg

 

[dan_c00000]

And how does that prove what I said was wrong?

Because you're always wrong and I always, with a huge amount of ease, completely ruin your asshole in every thread you've posted in.

Let's start with the recent backlash against the Trans-Pacific Partnership deal. Did Obama want it? Sure. Did a ton of Democrats vote against it? You bet. Are of major publications writing about the connection between Democrats and unions? Of course.

Even Hilary came out against it. As always, since you're a partisan hack, you try to lump all Democrats together and, as always, it fails because you know shit about shit.

Now do me a fucking favor and go jerkoff to your Guns & Ammo magazine like the pathetic piece of shit you are.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Because you're always wrong and I always, with a huge amount of ease, completely ruin your asshole in every thread you've posted in.

Cuz I said so and your continued obsession with my anus? That's it? That's all you've got?

As always, since you're a partisan hack, you try to lump all Democrats together and, as always, it fails because you know shit about shit.

I'm a democrat.... LOL fucking idiot.

Now do me a fucking favor and go jerkoff to your Guns & Ammo magazine like the pathetic piece of shit you are.

I've never owned an issue.....

Fantastic win there Dan...LMFAO

 

[KingOrfeo]

The decline and fall of White America: Inside the study that has shocked the public-health community

New research from Princeton has shown an all-but-unprecedented increase in mortality rates. Here's what to know

Paul Campos

A fascinating and disturbing paper from Princeton social scientists Anne Case and Angus Deaton reveals a shocking deterioration of health among what can be called, to echo Michael Harrington’s famous 1962 book on poverty, the Other White America.

The Other White America is made up of the approximately 55 million white non-Hispanic American adults who have no formal education beyond high school. This group compromises a little more than one third of all white non-Hispanics, and includes more than one in every five American adults. If it were an independent nation, the population of the OWA would be larger than the adult population of every European country other than Germany.

The deteriorating health of the Other White America is seen most clearly among its middle-aged residents. In a development that has almost no precedent in the public health statistics of advanced economies, the mortality rate for middle-aged whites with no more than a high school education actually increased by 22.3 percent between 1999 and 2013. This increase correlates closely with educational levels: Over this same time, the mortality rate of middle-aged whites with at least a BA degree fell by 24 percent, which is consistent with the rate of decline in mortality in the rest of the population, both in the United States and in other developed nations.

One aspect of the Case-Deaton study that has gone largely unnoticed is the extent to which it reveals an ongoing intensification of the so-called “Hispanic paradox.” The paradox is this: Normally, socio-economic status, as reflected in education levels and income, correlates well with health outcomes, as indeed it does among the whites in their study. American Hispanics have far less formal education, and make considerably less money, on average, than white Americans. Middle-aged white Americans are three times more likely to have college degrees than middle-aged Hispanics, and are 55 percent more likely to have graduated from high school. Median household income for whites is 46 percent higher than it is for Hispanics.

Despite these differences, which would ordinarily produce far better health outcomes for the more educated and wealthier group, American Hispanics now have longer life expectancies than whites. Indeed, the Case-Deaton study found that, among middle-aged Americans, this gap is growing at a fast pace, as mortality rates among Hispanics continue to drop rapidly, while they are actually rising among whites. The result is that mortality rates for middle-aged whites are now 54 percent higher than for Hispanics.

An even more startling contrast can be found between the mortality rates of Hispanics, and of whites with no more than a high school education. Since approximately 80 percent of middle-aged Hispanics never went to college, the educational credentials of this group largely overlap with those of white Americans with high school degrees or less. Yet the middle-aged members of the Other White America now have a mortality rate that is an astonishing 173 percent higher than that of their Hispanic peers.

What could account for such astounding disparities? Case and Deaton found that most of the increased mortality rates among middle-aged residents of the Other White America could be accounted for by just three interrelated factors: drug and alcohol overdoses, suicide, and chronic liver diseases that are usually a product of long-term alcohol abuse. (These factors are closely related in that the line between deaths formally classified as suicide and other forms of self-destruction can be quite fuzzy).

Middle-aged whites are now more than twice as likely to die of drug and alcohol overdoses than are Hispanics of the same age. This is in large part because middle-aged residents of the Other White America are four times more likely than Hispanics to overdose on legal and illegal drugs, including alcohol. The suicide rate among middle-aged whites is three and half times higher than the rate among middle-aged Hispanics. Among less educated whites it is five and a half times higher.

Case and Deaton have generously shared more of their data regarding this subject with me, and examining it reveals that patterns they have discovered are also becoming pronounced among younger Americans. For example, while 20 years ago the mortality rate of 35- to 44-year-old Hispanics was approximately 15 percent higher than that of white non-Hispanics of the same age, today white non-Hispanics in that age range have a mortality rate nearly 60 percent higher than same-age Hispanics.

Many explanations have been offered for the Hispanic paradox, including lower levels of smoking, stronger community networks, and the purportedly better health habits of less acculturated recent immigrants to America. Here I will offer another, which seems especially applicable to the data Case and Deaton present.

The Hispanic paradox is essentially a paradox about social class. Why are Hispanics now enjoying better health outcomes than whites, and in particular drastically better health outcomes than whites of the same education and income levels? The answer, I suggest, has much to do with the very different social trajectories of the white and Hispanic working classes.

While it is always dangerous to generalize about as diverse a group as American Hispanics, it is safe to say that much of the Hispanic working class in America is made up of families that immigrated relatively recently from Mexico and Central America. For these people, the United States is still a land of remarkable opportunity: a place where it is likely that they, and their children, will end up much better off than their families were in their countries of origin.

For working class whites, by contrast, the situation is almost precisely the opposite. The members of the Other White America live in a world that, by most standard economic and cultural measures, has gotten worse for them than it was for their parents and grandparents. Working class whites and Hispanics may have similar income and education levels, but they are communities moving in starkly different directions. The starkly different direction the literal health of these two groups is taking is, it seems, a reflection of these larger patterns.

 

[dan_c00000]

Cuz I said so

If you're not going to read my posts that's fine your ass is still going to get destroyed either way.

Anyway, your poor anus. I feel so bad for it. Tell me again how unions and manufacturing don't support Democrats?

UA Endorses Hillary Clinton for President.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151327/4482519-spongebob-butthurt.gif

 

[JackLuis]

UA Endorses Hillary Clinton for President.

[/IMG]

Those guys just want to lay pipe! I question their taste... in candidates.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

obama love murder

 

[Sean Renaud]

You know his argument (correct or not) doesn't hinge on if the unions support Hillary or not. He's part of the crowd that believes unions destroyed the American Middle class by forcing jobs to China and India. Granted a glance at Europe would tell us that Unions at least in and of themselves are not the issue. But he and I agree that America often hits some snags that are caused by our "philosophy" for a lack of better terms. UHC works for Europeans because they are willing to use the government as a club to beat big pharma into the ground and make them grateful for the crumbs they do get. In the US our "big step" (and given it's us I do think it was a big step) from the old world towards the new world was essentially a huge hand out to big pharma essentially so they wouldn't cockblock us. I mean we didn't even really get out from under them in any truly significant way so much as we just begged them not to stomp down on us.

There are lots of places where we hit similar snags. I believe it was Winston Churchill who said "Americans will always do the right thing but only after they have exhausted every other possibility."