Why are some rape stories allowed, some arent?

[MightyZor]

Ok, we all know that rape stories arent allowed here because they depict crime. But what about the stories where a woman is raped by a monster or some non-human creature? Those stories are in the database. If you search for word "monster" you find them.

How can this contradiction be explained?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Don't know. What's the current American law on mytyhological beasts, demons, and monsters?

I think it's the whole dichotomy between fantasy and reality and more importantly in this site between erotic horror and the rest of the community. You can get away with a lot on the erotic horror section as long as there are no real animals or children in the sex.

 

[Liar]

Generally, the dictinction of what is allowed or not when it comes to rape-stories on Lit is wether the victim ends up enjoying the action. I haven't read any raped-by-monster stories, it's not my bag, but maybe that is what happens in the stories you found?

 

[snooper]

I think it has a lot to do with which of the board's staff members reads your story. Maybe also, which side of the bed they got out of that morning.

I keep on being told that every story is checked by Laurel personally, but the sheer volume dictates that it must be a team.

 

[oggbashan]

It is allowed if it is tasteful.

My monster rape story The Giant Squid is in the best possible taste and anyway the squid's intention wasn't rape. It just seemed to be.

Ironic Og

 

[Colleen Thomas]

If you checked the description of non-Concent when I first arrived here it was described as fantasies of control. The key being fantasy. I do not know what the cat reads now, since it was changed to add reluctance, but the idea of it being fantasy probably still holds true for the harder content stories.

Many people have a fantasy of being raped, but the key to that fantasy is, since it is a fantasy, they have complete control. Within that fantasy frame work, they are going to enjoy the action, since they control every aspect, including their "attackers" words & deeds. This translates into a general guideline that the victim in lit N/C stories has to enjoy it.

In Non human, the action is clearly fantasy. From the first time Count dracula takes a sip or the six foot tall bug eyed alien with dripping tentacles enters stage right.

-Colly

 

[Weird Harold]

How can this contradiction be explained?

The distinction has always been rape fantasies are permitted, but Rapist fantasies are not.

There is a bit more to it than the "victim has to enjoy it" -- the rapist has to intend that the victim enjoy it. But even that explanation falls short of predicting the subjective judgement of the editor.


As to the specifics of monsters commiting "rape:" monsters seldom get off on the "rape" and monster stories are usually not about "power trips," degradation, and deliberate humiliation -- i.e. they aren't "rapist fantasies."

 

[Pure]

Hi Mighty one,

//Ok, we all know that rape stories arent allowed here because they depict crime. But what about the stories where a woman is raped by a monster or some non-human creature? Those stories are in the database. If you search for word "monster" you find them.

How can this contradiction be explained?
//

No one has to 'explain'. It's a private site, run for profit. They can pull all stories with red-heads if they want, and do so on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. And have a 'redhead' porn forum on the other days.

Depiction of crime is not fatal. Many classics of literature depict crimes, e.g., Macbeth. Lots of lit stories do.

I don't agree with Weird H., about 'rapist' fantasies NOT being permitted. There is no requirement that the rapist intend enjoyment.

Further, while Colly is right about the *concept* and why 'rape fantasies' appeal to some women, she does not accurately describe the actual 'nonconsent' stories, which are quite various.
Some have a purely 'nominal' cum. I.e, mostly brutality.

As several have said, though, the 'horror' category sorta nullifies all the supposed (pro forma) literotica objections to brutality, torture, murder etc. It's a vague replica of the old 'extreme' category.

So you're right there's a seeming contradiction. But in practice, "nonconsent" includes rape; the 'horror' rapes may go a bit further.

Keep in mind that no censorship (or [restriction]) program can be consistent! Especially one with areas of liberality. Lit folk simply do what they think would help, in internet related 'obscenity' cases which have never happened. And those laws are so flawed, the restrictions may never become legal, i.e., the 'harmful to minors' criterion.

With a little care, other than underage stuff that's stupid {How I did my 14 year old sister}, you can write and post most anything that's literate if you label it right; depending, as one poster said, on the mood, and also the 'carefulness' of the person approving.

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't agree with Weird H., about 'rapist' fantasies NOT being permitted. There is no requirement that the rapist intend enjoyment.

No, there is no requirement about intent, but the distinction between "Rape fantasy" and "Rapist fantasy" is Laurel's distinction, not mine. The "intent to please clause" is only my feeble attempt to explain Laurel's stated critieria for rejecting a non-consent story.

 

[Pure]

Hi, WH, please quote her (L).

BUT

1) Does the distinction make sense?

2) To what extent to the stories in 'nonconsent' reflect that distinction.? Are you saying there are no 'rapist fantasies', so called?

I suspect it would be fairly easy to write and get accepted a story where the rapist is just a 'selfish date' and doesn't intend his 'victims' pleasure, but she's a bit kinky and gets a weird thrill out of it, and cums like crazy. Wanna bet?

J.

---
WH:

No, there is no requirement about intent, but the distinction between "Rape fantasy" and "Rapist fantasy" is Laurel's distinction, not mine. The "intent to please clause" is only my feeble attempt to explain Laurel's stated critieria for rejecting a non-consent story.


WH The distinction has always been rape fantasies are permitted, but Rapist fantasies are not.

There is a bit more to it than the "victim has to enjoy it" -- the rapist has to intend that the victim enjoy it. But even that explanation falls short of predicting the subjective judgement of the editor.

 

[bridgeburner]

I'm trying hard to think now when was the last time I read a NC story here that didn't involve the victim reaching orgasm. Before I thought about it I would have said that there were a few, but now I can't think of any.

Ah, now I must wade back into the NC section and do some research.

Fortunately perve that I am, I have a bookmark.


-B

 

[Boxlicker101]

I have written two stories in which a woman and a man or group of men role play a rape. I make it very clear in both stories that they people are just pretending, and everybody has a good time. In the gang rape, the woman is actually in charge at the end, telling the men what to do. Nobody would ever reject stories like these. I also wrote a story of a brutal anal rape by two thuggish hobos of a younger man. At the end of the story he was left for dead. I had planned a sequel of the victim being found dead by railroad detectives the next morning and the killers being hanged but the story was rejected so I never wrote the sequel. What would be acceptable is somewhere in between these two extremes. I also have submitted a N/C story involving sexual harassment at work where the woman ends up enjoying herself. This hasn't been posted yet but there should be no problem.

 

[Guest]

As far as I know Laurel lets pretty much anything go (provided they are not unreadable).

You can get a real-life murder story from a book shop. (Think)

If you want to read rape fantasy stories, don't read my stories.

 

[Weird Harold]

Hi, WH, please quote her (L).

I don't save e-mails and PMs for five years. She first told me about the distinction when I posted my first story -- which is a non-consent story -- and she had some concern about the way it starts out (It's not clear that there is a twist that changes the nature of the "rape" until near the very end.)

Laurel HAS posted that guideline several times in the forums, back when she participated more often. You can twist and weasel however you wish, but LArel's subjective determination between rape fantasy and rapist fantasy is what determines whether the story is accepted or not.

 

[Boxlicker101]

As far as I know Laurel lets pretty much anything go (provided they are not unreadable).

That's not strictly true. As I said, a rape story of mine was rejected as being too violent and brutal. I must admit, it was that allright.

 

[Guest]

I must admit, it was that allright.

I hear you, BL.

I mean, shit happens in real life, so why the stupid censourship?

Laws are crazy, and you know it (you can't kill your abusing husband, but you can rape an inocent Iraqi).

 

[angela146]

Is part of the rapist/rape fantasy distinction based on the perspective of the story?

I have a work in progress that involves a woman being raped. In the story, the reader hears her thoughts and perceptions but not the rapist's. We hear only about his behavior, not his thoughts.

If the narrator is looking up at the rapist and suffering the assault, does that make it more of a rape fantasy then if the narrator is looking down on the victim and perpetrating the assault?

 

[Pure]

well, I guess we won't know what Laurel said.

Angela, you make a good point. It's hard to see how pov could cause a story to be accepted or rejected.

here's a little sampling, maybe some readers will say how they would view these nonconsent stories.

Weird H: Are these bona fide 'rape fantasies' according to your understanding?

For some reason, the term 'nightmare' occurs in several titles. hmmm.

----

Memories of a Nightmare

by TexasAngel28

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=45639
-------

Her Defilement, ch 3 [bdsm]
TheOrchid
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=77068
-----

Kristin's Nightmare
by PAS

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=78157

--------

Restaurant Nightmare
blondefungirl
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=109463

----
A Contracting Nightmare,
by fuckdoll

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=56798
---
sexual torture of unwilling male

Andrea's Helper
AnonFineDay
[bdsm]

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=3177

 

[angela146]

Angela, you make a good point. It's hard to see how pov could cause a story to be accepted or rejected.

But the POV might put enough of a spin on a story to make the difference:

"Oh, God! Is he going to put that thing in me?"

versus

"Oh, God am I going to put this thing in her!"

 

[Boxlicker101]

But the POV might put enough of a spin on a story to make the difference:

"Oh, God! Is he going to put that thing in me?"

versus

"Oh, God am I going to put this thing in her!"

Somehow, I can't imagine a rapist thinking as the last POV. It would be more like "I'm going to put this thing in her!" Actually, it would be even more like "I'm gonna put this thing in this bitch and teach her a lesson!" I say "thing" because it might or might not be his cock. It might even be another woman with a strapon or a broomstick.

Maybe if the perpetrator(s) are severely punished or the victim is able to take revenge, it might make a difference.

 

[Guest]

If the narrator is looking up at the rapist and suffering the assault, does that make it more of a rape fantasy then if the narrator is looking down on the victim and perpetrating the assault?

Silent Terror
[size=0.5]by James Ellroy[/size]

In the above novel, the narrator is a serial killer (his POV).

My point: it doesn't matter as long as the story is well written and grips the attention of the readers.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Silent Terror
[size=0.5]by James Ellroy[/size]

In the above novel, the narrator is a serial killer (his POV).

My point: it doesn't matter as long as the story is well written and grips the attention of the readers.

This thread isn't about well-written or not. It is about what is acceptable and we all know that a story doesn't have to be well-written to be accepted. A story about a serial killer who rapes his victims first woulp probably not be acceptable. This is Laurel's site and she sets the rules, as is her right.

 

[bridgeburner]

Honestly, I think the major criteria for whether or not a decently written rape story gets accepted is which editor reads it.

It occurs to me at the moment to be a little pissed off if there really were some rule about the victim having to cum in order for the story to be accepted. I just can't imagine that playing into Laurel's guidelines at all.

Think about it this way ---- you can do whatever you want to the girl but make sure she cums so that we can argue in the end that it's not really rape.

Now, that works for some people. It flatly does not for me and tends to really piss me off. What's more damaging if that's the question? Finding sexual gratification in the fantasy of an actual rape or finding sexual gratification in a fantasy of rape that underscores that it really isn't rape if she liked it --- and according to most of the stories here they ALL like it.

Call a spade a spade and take responsibility for your desires. If you get off on rape stories where the girl doesn't cum much less turn into a spunk-guzzling nymphomaniac then admit it. I do. Others do. It's sleezy to pretend you're not interested in that or to try and excuse it by tacking on some happily ever after. There is a place for those stories, certainly. Plenty of people like them that way and that's fine too, but I don't like the implications of an obligatory cum for the rape to pass muster.

Now, before anybody gets twisted please keep in mind that I don't think fiction leads to reality. I don't believe people read violence or watch violence and then DO violence who wouldn't have gotten around to it anyway and likely sooner without the media outlets.

I'm just saying, there's a point when the PC doublethink about things really does more harm than good.


-B

 

[Pure]

Hi bb,

I think those are good points. The 'fun among equals' is the PC line. The woman coming is part of the equation. Note this applies in 'nonconsent' and 'bdsm'; iow the woman may be 'maltreated'(so to say) but she has to come from it. and ultimately to want it. (in many non consent stories, she starts begging for more cock about half way through.)

Weird H would take it to an even higher level; exemplary sensitivity. Not only must the woman come, but the maltreator (so called) has to want, intend (and bring about) that. (This same holds for new-agey ssc bdsm.)

Both sexes are, in effect told: you may be kinky by don't be self-centred. There's NO licit sex where one takes advantage of the other, or gets pleasure at the expense of the other.

I hope you'll read some examples, above, and see to what extent NONtypical stories have made it (perhaps this was intended) over the PC hurdles.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hi bb,

I think those are good points. The 'fun among equals' is the PC line. The woman coming is part of the equation. Note this applies in 'nonconsent' and 'bdsm'; iow the woman may be 'maltreated'(so to say) but she has to come from it. and ultimately to want it. (in many non consent stories, she starts begging for more cock about half way through.)

Weird H would take it to an even higher level; exemplary sensitivity. Not only must the woman come, but the maltreator (so called) has to want, intend (and bring about) that. (This same holds for new-agey ssc bdsm.)

Both sexes are, in effect told: you may be kinky by don't be self-centred. There's NO licit sex where one takes advantage of the other, or gets pleasure at the expense of the other.

I hope you'll read some examples, above, and see to what extent NONtypical stories have made it (perhaps this was intended) over the PC hurdles.

I can't imagine a story about an actual rape, except a date rape sometimes, where the rapist wants his or her victim to enjoy it. One of the primary motivations for rape is to have the victim suffer. If the rape is actually a role-play then all the people involved expect to have fun.

On all my BDSM stories the woman wants to be spanked or whipped or tied up and gets off on it. I'm thinking about a story where the woman ties up the man and makes him do the things she wants to do, which are also things he wants to do.