why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?

[LadyFunkenstein]

Suicide, in the US, has increased across virtually all demographics and in every state. From 2000 to now the average increase in 30%. Among women, it almost doubled from 2000 to now. (Career women, are the most troubled. 25% are on anti-dressants.) Young people, veterans, men, girls and boys. I attribute it to the general demoralization of society due to lies, deceit, cynicism, about what is simple and good, and the rise of atheism (and by that I mean the lack of a higher power at all... so I would guess a Wiccan would not be suicidal as would not a Christian nor HIndi or what have you.)

 

[heathergives]

Suicide, in the US, has increased across virtually all demographics and in every state. From 2000 to now the average increase in 30%. Among women, it almost doubled from 2000 to now. (Career women, are the most troubled. 25% are on anti-depressants.) Young people, veterans, men, girls and boys. I attribute it to the general demoralization of society due to lies, deceit, cynicism, about what is simple and good, and the rise of atheism (and by that I mean the lack of a higher power at all... so I would guess a Wiccan would not be suicidal as would not a Christian nor HIndi or what have you.)

Fixed that for you.

I've never bee prescribed antidepressants, even though I endured a tough divorce at a young age and struggling to pay off (small, compared to these days) student loans while making car and mortgage payments.

As far as church...screw them, i was a regular churchgoer until i was chastised for cohabitating , while probably 20% of the older people in my church had been through multiple marriages, adulterous affairs, or were even closeted gay people (not that there's anything wrong with that). That was a hypocrisy that i would not tolerate.

I disagree with your statistics and opinions, lady, sorry about that.

 

[TJX]

Consider this also, I read once that during WWII the average soldier spent 30 days in combat. Move forward to Viet Nam where the average soldier had a 12 month tour of almost daily combat. Move on past the peace dividend to Iraq and Afghanistan where our soldiers were deployed 2-3-4 times.

 

[heathergives]

Consider this also, I read once that during WWII the average soldier spent 30 days in combat. Move forward to Viet Nam where the average soldier had a 12 month tour of almost daily combat. Move on past the peace dividend to Iraq and Afghanistan where our soldiers were deployed 2-3-4 times.

I don't know about the 30 day WWII statistic I thought that soldiers in Europe spent months in combat with little relief, however I have read that our soldiers in the mentioned later wars were required to deal with such extensive time under fire, or the threat of same.

 

[Jada59]

In a nuitshell, because they're getting screwed! When my ex retired, things were so backlogged, it took almost three years for him to get his retirement or disability pay. He wound up having to move somewhere else to get a full time job so we'd have money.

Also, the medical care is a joke. He had kidney cancer that progressed so badly that it pushed all of his organs upwards until he was choking. The military Drs. just prescribed allergy pills. He was finally allowed to see a civilian ENT. Only way she found out what it was, was because the XRay tech screwed up and took the pic too far down. Dr. was like... Uh... There's a mass there....

 

[heathergives]

In a nuitshell, because they're getting screwed! When my ex retired, things were so backlogged, it took almost three years for him to get his retirement or disability pay. He wound up having to move somewhere else to get a full time job so we'd have money.

Also, the medical care is a joke. He had kidney cancer that progressed so badly that it pushed all of his organs upwards until he was choking. The military Drs. just prescribed allergy pills. He was finally allowed to see a civilian ENT. Only way she found out what it was, was because the XRay tech screwed up and took the pic too far down. Dr. was like... Uh... There's a mass there....

I can't disagree with you there, Jada, in a nutshell, our government's treatment of our military veterans is; in a word; deplorable.

 

[Ziggins]

Many soldiers, college grads, farmers, etc. can't pay their bills. It's a choice of eat a bullet today or die of homelessness months or years later.

 

[BotanyBoy]

In a nuitshell, because they're getting screwed! When my ex retired, things were so backlogged, it took almost three years for him to get his retirement or disability pay. He wound up having to move somewhere else to get a full time job so we'd have money.

Also, the medical care is a joke. He had kidney cancer that progressed so badly that it pushed all of his organs upwards until he was choking. The military Drs. just prescribed allergy pills. He was finally allowed to see a civilian ENT. Only way she found out what it was, was because the XRay tech screwed up and took the pic too far down. Dr. was like... Uh... There's a mass there....

I can't disagree with you there, Jada, in a nutshell, our government's treatment of our military veterans is; in a word; deplorable.

It's not always the best possible, but it's not bad.

Better than what most countries do for their vets.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Fixed that for you.

I've never bee prescribed antidepressants, even though I endured a tough divorce at a young age and struggling to pay off (small, compared to these days) student loans while making car and mortgage payments.

As far as church...screw them, i was a regular churchgoer until i was chastised for cohabitating , while probably 20% of the older people in my church had been through multiple marriages, adulterous affairs, or were even closeted gay people (not that there's anything wrong with that). That was a hypocrisy that i would not tolerate.

I disagree with your statistics and opinions, lady, sorry about that.

I am pretty sure people understood my fast typing, but thanks for the fix in case someone didn't.

You should not have been prescribed antidepressants. Good for you that you weren't. It's normal to feel bad during a tough time.

Where did I say anything about church? I just re-read my post, church isn't there. The key to my point is "higher power." You can be a wiccan and dance around a tree because that tree is more powerful that you... that isn't church, yet that counts as a plus in my opinion.

My statistics are real and not my own. You can look up suicide rates and demographics if you are curious. It's time consuming though, you have to read dry articles.

My opinions are real and are my own, so you are free to disagree of course. I don't konw why you apologize nor do I understand the rolleyes, but I left the Lit culture

 

[PaxNurgle]

You are right about the Vets Health care system. The problem is that it is run by the government. Good thing we don't have them running all the health care like they want to. Then the suicide rate would go way up across the board.

But your second reason gave me pause. Do you believe that being an American is so stressful that it would result in high numbers of suicides or were you just making a leftist joke about other peoples tragic deaths?

I take it that you are not an American otherwise you would have killed yourself. So, may I ask which wonderful country you are from?

(Note to readers: Please do not expect real answers to my questions. Whoever made this disgusting comment is no doubt a withering coward)

...spoken by someone who is not an American herself.

We all know what wonderful country you are from. I have no disrespect to the veterans of your country's wars, and I realize that serving in Ukraine, Afghanistan, and whatever other conflicts Russia/USSR have been involved with over the past 30/40 years has probably caused the same issues with your people. Please do not disrespect us and our country. Because you may not be a "withering coward" but I do not think you are a very honest or kind person either.

 

[Conager]

Oh, look! Reds under his bed!

Nothing gets past him.

 

[Tigersman]

I'm a Vietnam vet. I served in the Navy aboard a hospital ship. Every day I saw the horrors that war ravaged on our men. Every day I heard the helos bringing in our wounded. I lost a close buddy to a mortar attack. When I came home I thought I was normal as I had been before going to Nam. I found out decades later that the experiences I went through after coming home was caused by PTDS. I still have a reaction to the sound of helos passing overhead. I still feel guilt for surviving while my buddy died. From time to time I contemplate suicide. I even have a plan for it. I'm just tired of trying to survive.

 

[TJX]

I'm a Vietnam vet. I served in the Navy aboard a hospital ship. Every day I saw the horrors that war ravaged on our men. Every day I heard the helos bringing in our wounded. I lost a close buddy to a mortar attack. When I came home I thought I was normal as I had been before going to Nam. I found out decades later that the experiences I went through after coming home was caused by PTDS. I still have a reaction to the sound of helos passing overhead. I still feel guilt for surviving while my buddy died. From time to time I contemplate suicide. I even have a plan for it. I'm just tired of trying to survive.

Tiger, welcome home.

 

[TJX]

My uncle was marine who served 1 year in Viet Nam starting in Feb 68. He suffers PTSD. He says he doesn't have it as bad as some others but I know for a fact he wakes with nightmares on a weekly basis to this day. It's a horrible price to ask of our young people in the military. They deserve every EVERY piece of support we can provide.

 

[suurfer]

You are taught to go to war trained for it no one is trained to come home living in a war zone you deal with a very different set of problems not getting killed etc. but when you get home it’s how do I pay my bills what due next etc. it’s the small thing that’s hard to deal with Walmart noises loud bangs that a month ago meant sudden death for you now it’s everyday life worlds outside of war zones changes quickly while you are gone thing that seemed easy before you left is very hard when you get back it took me years to grasp technology that had changed. I pray every day for these young men I can’t explain it but death in a war zone is easy sounds hard but it’s true i went through very tough times when I came home at time you just want to say fuck it but you have to chive on it’s really hard for civilians to understand this PRAY FOR THEM god bless y’all

I'm a Vietnam vet. I served in the Navy aboard a hospital ship. Every day I saw the horrors that war ravaged on our men. Every day I heard the helos bringing in our wounded. I lost a close buddy to a mortar attack. When I came home I thought I was normal as I had been before going to Nam. I found out decades later that the experiences I went through after coming home was caused by PTDS. I still have a reaction to the sound of helos passing overhead. I still feel guilt for surviving while my buddy died. From time to time I contemplate suicide. I even have a plan for it. I'm just tired of trying to survive.

Those mirror the few vets that I listened to online, and who struggled with the same hurdles.

Suicide, in the US, has increased across virtually all demographics and in every state. From 2000 to now the average increase in 30%. Among women, it almost doubled from 2000 to now. (Career women, are the most troubled. 25% are on anti-dressants.) Young people, veterans, men, girls and boys. I attribute it to the general demoralization of society due to lies, deceit, cynicism, about what is simple and good, and the rise of atheism (and by that I mean the lack of a higher power at all... so I would guess a Wiccan would not be suicidal as would not a Christian nor HIndi or what have you.)

Those are MY experiences too. Raised in a semi-atheist household, yet despite that felt loved and accepted in my homeland. But the moment I emmigrated and my worldview got turned upside-down: boom.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

They have easy access to the means.

 

[HisArpy]

They have easy access to the means.

So does anyone. There are more ways to commit suicide than anyone should care to list (nor Laurel allow). That you don't know that, or won't acknowledge it because it doesn't go along with your personal agenda, means that your post contributed NOTHING to the thread.

Which, considering it's from you, isn't that surprising.

 

[Takentwice]

As a Canadian Army veteran released with PTSD following a tour in Afghanistan, perhaps I might toss in a couple of things from my point of view.

First off, permit me to apologize for Gypsytag’s arrogance. I am not 100% enamoured with the US (nor with my own country, if that matters), but I do not think he represents the opinion of very many Canadians. He certainly doesn’t represent the views of any Canadian veteran I’ve ever met.

Moreover, he’s simply wrong. If the veteran suicide rate were simply due to living in the Excited States, there would be no vet suicide problem north of the border. As it happens, Canada has just about exactly the same issues with its own veterans. Ergo, his analysis is not only puerile, but totally, foolishly, pathetically wrong. Oh, and smug too, if that matters.

As for somebody’s statement that PTSD stems from no longer being able to ‘do cool shit’, well, some may enlist in adolescent hopes of doing ‘cool shit’ and being able to ‘smoke some baddies’, but that generally gets belt-sanded off you right quick. Oh, there may be the odd psycopath wandering around in uniform who enjoys killing and destruction, but from what I’ve seen, they’re anything but common. Most soldiers are trying to do their best under nasty conditions. Fun is of course always in demand, but generally consists of getting a real shower, food that comes on a plate and eight hours straight sleep. Getting shot at? Not so much.

The loss of membership in a group is, I think, a very serious factor. We are gregarious critters, we humans, and being expelled from our tribe or group is always stressful.

That’s complicated by the fact that veterans have a different worldview, something they can no more describe to a civilian than a mother can fully explain the experience of childbirth to anybody who hasn’t birthed one of her own. (And, paradoxically, the latter doesn’t need to be told.)

I remember getting out-of-theatre leave, just me by myself in a civilian society; peaceful, nice place, friendly - and beer! But you know that old story about really deep sea fish exploding when they’re hauled up to the surface? That’s what it felt like, like the only thing holding me together - the pressure - had been taken away.

HisArpy is right about building walls. They suck, as does waking up hung over every morning. You know what? Sometimes those things seem to be the least-unreasonable ways of coping and they’re certainly better than swallowing a shotgun muzzle. You do what you gotta do to survive.

Sheltered lives? Yeah, maybe, some of it. Good training helps.

Survival guilt? Absolutely.

As a layman, my personal thoughts as to why we are seeing more PTSD. First, the higher rate is in part due to better capturing; we’re better at recognizing it. Vets who once would’ve been simply told stop wussing out are now recognized - and counted - as the casualties they are. (It’s physiological as much as psychological, for brains scans clearly show that the PTSD-sufferers’ brain has rewired itself.)

Secondly, as noted, the amount of time the troops are actually in danger has greatly increased. Take the worst Medieval battle - horrific casualties maybe, but then it was over for a while, with time to recover. The US Civil War started seeing what was called ‘soldier’s heart’ once the fighting became extended (eg the overland campaign). General Sherman, Grant’s right hand, probably suffered from PTSD. Even in WW1, units were routinely rotated out of the trenches to relatively safe locations. Now it’s month grinding into month into year, always having to be alert, on your toes.

Thirdly, in the old days, once back in a safe zone, soldiers could engage in group mourning for Poor Old Smitty, who just joined the Pink Mist Club. That’s is a critical part of healing. Not so these days and ramp ceremonies don’t cut it.

Shift gears for a moment. Something to think on. When a 747 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988 by Libyan agents, the first on the scene were members of the local emergency services - cops, firemen and so forth. The Army was quickly called in to help, barracked in church basements, school gyms and such.

Which group had the highest PTSD rate? Was it the cops, on their own turf, sleeping in their own beds? Or was it the squaddies, living in crowded and austere quarters and away from their wives and families? Counterintuitively, it was the former. The troops could talk it out amongst themselves, come to terms with it. The young police constable on the other hand couldn’t just go home at end of shift and talk to his young bride about what it felt like to have to pull an empaled toddler’s body off a steel post. It left them defenceless and they paid the price.

Enough, but for one thing. Gypsytag? You don’t speak for Canada, sunshine, nor for Canadians, nor especially for Canadian veterans.

Remembrance Day is three days away. Why don’t you try growing a pair and repeat some of that slime you’re so safely (and, of course, anonymously) spouting here to any of the aged vets in your local Legion. We’ll see who’s a ‘snowflake’ - you or those trembling, bald octogenarians with their walkers.

As a Canadian, as a veteran, as somebody who knows the real cost of our democracy, it grieves me that the English language lacks sufficiently ugly enough words for me to properly express my contempt.

 

[silver gurl]

They have easy access to the means.

Ignorant answer.

 

[Gypsytag]

As a Canadian Army veteran released with PTSD following a tour in Afghanistan, perhaps I might toss in a couple of things from my point of view.

First off, permit me to apologize for Gypsytag’s arrogance. I am not 100% enamoured with the US (nor with my own country, if that matters), but I do not think he represents the opinion of very many Canadians. He certainly doesn’t represent the views of any Canadian veteran I’ve ever met.

Moreover, he’s simply wrong. If the veteran suicide rate were simply due to living in the Excited States, there would be no vet suicide problem north of the border. As it happens, Canada has just about exactly the same issues with its own veterans. Ergo, his analysis is not only puerile, but totally, foolishly, pathetically wrong. Oh, and smug too, if that matters.

As for somebody’s statement that PTSD stems from no longer being able to ‘do cool shit’, well, some may enlist in adolescent hopes of doing ‘cool shit’ and being able to ‘smoke some baddies’, but that generally gets belt-sanded off you right quick. Oh, there may be the odd psycopath wandering around in uniform who enjoys killing and destruction, but from what I’ve seen, they’re anything but common. Most soldiers are trying to do their best under nasty conditions. Fun is of course always in demand, but generally consists of getting a real shower, food that comes on a plate and eight hours straight sleep. Getting shot at? Not so much.

The loss of membership in a group is, I think, a very serious factor. We are gregarious critters, we humans, and being expelled from our tribe or group is always stressful.

That’s complicated by the fact that veterans have a different worldview, something they can no more describe to a civilian than a mother can fully explain the experience of childbirth to anybody who hasn’t birthed one of her own. (And, paradoxically, the latter doesn’t need to be told.)

I remember getting out-of-theatre leave, just me by myself in a civilian society; peaceful, nice place, friendly - and beer! But you know that old story about really deep sea fish exploding when they’re hauled up to the surface? That’s what it felt like, like the only thing holding me together - the pressure - had been taken away.

HisArpy is right about building walls. They suck, as does waking up hung over every morning. You know what? Sometimes those things seem to be the least-unreasonable ways of coping and they’re certainly better than swallowing a shotgun muzzle. You do what you gotta do to survive.

Sheltered lives? Yeah, maybe, some of it. Good training helps.

Survival guilt? Absolutely.

As a layman, my personal thoughts as to why we are seeing more PTSD. First, the higher rate is in part due to better capturing; we’re better at recognizing it. Vets who once would’ve been simply told stop wussing out are now recognized - and counted - as the casualties they are. (It’s physiological as much as psychological, for brains scans clearly show that the PTSD-sufferers’ brain has rewired itself.)

Secondly, as noted, the amount of time the troops are actually in danger has greatly increased. Take the worst Medieval battle - horrific casualties maybe, but then it was over for a while, with time to recover. The US Civil War started seeing what was called ‘soldier’s heart’ once the fighting became extended (eg the overland campaign). General Sherman, Grant’s right hand, probably suffered from PTSD. Even in WW1, units were routinely rotated out of the trenches to relatively safe locations. Now it’s month grinding into month into year, always having to be alert, on your toes.

Thirdly, in the old days, once back in a safe zone, soldiers could engage in group mourning for Poor Old Smitty, who just joined the Pink Mist Club. That’s is a critical part of healing. Not so these days and ramp ceremonies don’t cut it.

Shift gears for a moment. Something to think on. When a 747 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988 by Libyan agents, the first on the scene were members of the local emergency services - cops, firemen and so forth. The Army was quickly called in to help, barracked in church basements, school gyms and such.

Which group had the highest PTSD rate? Was it the cops, on their own turf, sleeping in their own beds? Or was it the squaddies, living in crowded and austere quarters and away from their wives and families? Counterintuitively, it was the former. The troops could talk it out amongst themselves, come to terms with it. The young police constable on the other hand couldn’t just go home at end of shift and talk to his young bride about what it felt like to have to pull an empaled toddler’s body off a steel post. It left them defenceless and they paid the price.

Enough, but for one thing. Gypsytag? You don’t speak for Canada, sunshine, nor for Canadians, nor especially for Canadian veterans.

Remembrance Day is three days away. Why don’t you try growing a pair and repeat some of that slime you’re so safely (and, of course, anonymously) spouting here to any of the aged vets in your local Legion. We’ll see who’s a ‘snowflake’ - you or those trembling, bald octogenarians with their walkers.

As a Canadian, as a veteran, as somebody who knows the real cost of our democracy, it grieves me that the English language lacks sufficiently ugly enough words for me to properly express my contempt.

I wasnt speaking on behalf of canada or canadian veterans, you long winded dipshit.

 

[coati]

Like LadyFunk said, suicide stats are up among a number of demographical groups. Reasons are being studied, and no one has all the answers about why this is taking place.

People are feeling unconnected, for one reason or another, in this rapidly changing world.

 

[oneblueye]

hey...

I grew thru the Vietnam Conflict, I enlisted in Oct1971...because of the Armies assholes, I was released in Feb 1972...General under Honorable Conditions... the Army faked my GED scores and tried to keep me enlisted. My basic training camp C.O. was a young Capt, battlefield commission. Wherever he was his eyes never stopped moving, he NEVER stopped looking for the Cong. He was physically located in Ft Knox KY, but HE---, NEVER left the rice paddies of Vietnam.
You can't teach someone how to stop fearing every movement of the hand or every anxious look or glance. They have to come to their own level of realization {"not everyone is trying to kill me"}
Sometimes the only way to make the killing stop in your mind, is to stop 'being'.

 

[TJX]

Like LadyFunk said, suicide stats are up among a number of demographical groups. Reasons are being studied, and no one has all the answers about why this is taking place.

People are feeling unconnected, for one reason or another, in this rapidly changing world.

Cell phones, computer chat, text and e-mail. Even social media. We're rapidly replacing human interaction with electronic interaction. It's a wonder anyone finds connection.

 

[oneblueye]

hey...

They knew what they signed up for and now they whine if they arent pampered and their egos arent stroked.

Bunch of snowflakes.

you sound like every fucking bully that I have ever had to put up with
ALL MY MUTHAFUCKN LIFE and I tell you what, I would love to have the opportunity to "RESET" a muthafuckrs 'bad attitude'.
If you are indeed from Canada, its a good thing that we could never meet as I am banned from your country.

 

[TJX]

To every veteran reading this, you have my utmost respect. Even those from countries that may have fought against mine. Your countries called for service and you served.

To each and every veteran out there I'd like to say welcome home.