why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?

[BoyNextDoor]

Ignorant answer.

Why?

Suicide is generally the result of a person coming to a conclusion. Making a decision. A rational decision from their point of view. Mental illness is not a majority determinant. Rational people are the ones killing themselves.

Of all suicides half are by firearms. I am sure that many of them would find their way to suffocation and poisoning, but not all.

The goal of suicide prevention is to teach people that there is a better choice to be made because there is no social circumstance where suicide is the best option for anyone. There may be other circumstances - as in someone in chronic pain may choose to be euthanized. BUt that is physical and not social.

Given that the US of A stats skew to:

The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals.
Men die by suicide 3.53x more often than women.
On average, there are 123 suicides per day.
White males accounted for 7 of 10 suicides in 2016.
A firearm is used in almost 50% of all suicides.
The rate of suicide is highest in middle age—white men in particular.

So I am not saying take the guns. I am not saying anything bad about people that went to defend the nation. I am not judging.

But access to weapons clearly influences the numbers of suicides towards people that when in a moment of despair have easy access to a firearm.

 

[bellisarius]

Why?

Suicide is generally the result of a person coming to a conclusion. Making a decision. A rational decision from their point of view. Mental illness is not a majority determinant. Rational people are the ones killing themselves.

Of all suicides half are by firearms. I am sure that many of them would find their way to suffocation and poisoning, but not all.

The goal of suicide prevention is to teach people that there is a better choice to be made because there is no social circumstance where suicide is the best option for anyone. There may be other circumstances - as in someone in chronic pain may choose to be euthanized. BUt that is physical and not social.

Given that the US of A stats skew to:

The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals.
Men die by suicide 3.53x more often than women.
On average, there are 123 suicides per day.
White males accounted for 7 of 10 suicides in 2016.
A firearm is used in almost 50% of all suicides.
The rate of suicide is highest in middle age—white men in particular.

So I am not saying take the guns. I am not saying anything bad about people that went to defend the nation. I am not judging.

But access to weapons clearly influences the numbers of suicides towards people that when in a moment of despair have easy access to a firearm.

You have NOTHING to back that up with, nothing.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

You have NOTHING to back that up with, nothing.

All suicides

Number of deaths: 47,173
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.5
Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides
Number of deaths: 23,854
Deaths per 100,000 population: 7.3

Suffocation suicides
Number of deaths: 13,075
Deaths per 100,000 population: 4.0

Poisoning suicides
Number of deaths: 6,554
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.0

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Let's talk about the number of failed, attempted suicides.

Which two of the three (suffocation, poisoning, gun) have a failure rate above 1%?

 

[dagdag]

Over all this is a very sad subject, and makes me sad...

I would have guessed that starting the car in the garage, and leaving the garage door closed would be the highest percentage on those suicides. carbon monoxide poisoning :-(

 

[bellisarius]

All suicides

Number of deaths: 47,173
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.5
Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides
Number of deaths: 23,854
Deaths per 100,000 population: 7.3

Suffocation suicides
Number of deaths: 13,075
Deaths per 100,000 population: 4.0

Poisoning suicides
Number of deaths: 6,554
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.0

You still have nothing to back your statement up with.

Yes, the male suicide rate is higher than females. This has been true for as long as they've kept statistics. And there's a reason, women attempt suicide, men follow through. There is a ton of research out there on the reasons by accredited psychologists, look it up.

Suicide is NOT a spontaneous event 99% of the time. It's not a case of, "Oh, look, there's a gun. I think I'll blow my brains out."

But more importantly virtually all of the left is all in for assisted suicide. As if getting a physician involved makes it alright. But if they see an opportunity to advance a political agenda by feigning being horrified at the thought of suicide, well, they're down with that too. So what is it, are you outraged by suicide, or just by the means?

 

[jomar]

And the modern body armor too.

That shit saved a LOT of lives, without it our KIA and wounded numbers would have been significantly higher.

Yes. Like helmets don’t get penetrated like they used too, but they get dented so less death but more tbi.

They have easy access to the means.

True. I recall hearing a circumstance where troop suicide rates were alarming so they (forgot where) didn’t let soldiers take their guns home over the weekend and rates dropped dramatically.

I think another layer is the mentality you should suck it up. Solders are notorious for under reporting injuries and whatnot so that probably acts as a barrier for some reaching out for help.

 

[Gypsytag]

You still have nothing to back your statement up with.

Yes, the male suicide rate is higher than females. This has been true for as long as they've kept statistics. And there's a reason, women attempt suicide, men follow through. There is a ton of research out there on the reasons by accredited psychologists, look it up.

Suicide is NOT a spontaneous event 99% of the time. It's not a case of, "Oh, look, there's a gun. I think I'll blow my brains out."

But more importantly virtually all of the left is all in for assisted suicide. As if getting a physician involved makes it alright. But if they see an opportunity to advance a political agenda by feigning being horrified at the thought of suicide, well, they're down with that too. So what is it, are you outraged by suicide, or just by the means?

A simple, 'sorry, you're correct' would have sufficed.

 

[jomar]

...

Yes, the male suicide rate is higher than females. This has been true for as long as they've kept statistics. And there's a reason, women attempt suicide, men follow through. There is a ton of research out there on the reasons by accredited psychologists, look it up.

...

Because men tend to use more lethal means, is why. If that’s what you mean by attempt vs follow through then I suppose so.

 

[BotanyBoy]

As for somebody’s statement that PTSD stems from no longer being able to ‘do cool shit’, well, some may enlist in adolescent hopes of doing ‘cool shit’ and being able to ‘smoke some baddies’, but that generally gets belt-sanded off you right quick.

Some for sure, but I loved being a grunt and so did a lot of my buddies who I worked with.

My old man is a retired fighter pilot, he misses it every day and it still brings him to tears knowing he'll never get to go rag an F-15 out like he stole the sum' bitch.

Fun is of course always in demand, but generally consists of getting a real shower, food that comes on a plate and eight hours straight sleep. Getting shot at? Not so much.

It's not for everyone I suppose.

In every unit I was ever with it was generally expected of you to forgo comforts in favor of a fight with great enthusiasm and a smile if not a hard on.

Enough, but for one thing. Gypsytag? You don’t speak for Canada, sunshine, nor for Canadians, nor especially for Canadian veterans.

Remembrance Day is three days away. Why don’t you try growing a pair and repeat some of that slime you’re so safely (and, of course, anonymously) spouting here to any of the aged vets in your local Legion. We’ll see who’s a ‘snowflake’ - you or those trembling, bald octogenarians with their walkers.

As a Canadian, as a veteran, as somebody who knows the real cost of our democracy, it grieves me that the English language lacks sufficiently ugly enough words for me to properly express my contempt.

https://i.imgur.com/JPBTwh8.gif?noredirect

Thanks Take2x....I'll roll a fatty in your honor right now.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes. Like helmets don’t get penetrated like they used too, but they get dented so less death but more tbi.



True. I recall hearing a circumstance where troop suicide rates were alarming so they (forgot where) didn’t let soldiers take their guns home over the weekend and rates dropped dramatically.

I think another layer is the mentality you should suck it up. Solders are notorious for under reporting injuries and whatnot so that probably acts as a barrier for some reaching out for help.

Yup.

I've never heard of soldiers or Marines taking their service weapons home.

 

[Tigersman]

My uncle was marine who served 1 year in Viet Nam starting in Feb 68. He suffers PTSD. He says he doesn't have it as bad as some others but I know for a fact he wakes with nightmares on a weekly basis to this day. It's a horrible price to ask of our young people in the military. They deserve every EVERY piece of support we can provide.

Thank you for welcoming me home. The first time I heard that was in the early 90s while on vacation. I didn't realize what was being said to me. My wife had to explain. In 68 I was serving aboard the hospital ship patrolling from Danang to the DMZ. You uncle most likely was part of the Tet Offensive which was the North throwing everything they had at the South. As fast as we pulled meat from the meat lockers body bags were taking its place. The wards were full so patients were placed on gurneys and set against the bulkheads.

 

[bellisarius]

Yup.

I've never heard of soldiers or Marines taking their service weapons home.

Under special circumstances only, Military is weird that way. I had permanent orders that allowed my to carry government weapons in my POV. While on post my personal firearms had to be stored in the arms room. I had to sign them in and out and carry the receipts until I got off post. Upon returning I had to declare my personal weapons at the gate and was given a temp. pass to transport until they could be signed back in the arms room. No such problem with the government issue. Like I said, strange.

The other soldiers on post had to check their weapons in and out all the time, every time. A weapon unaccounted for in the arms room brought everything to a standstill until that weapon was accounted for. They were quite anal about that.

 

[With_David_Bowie]

I read the first post, as I should....

Because they have gotten older

 

[BotanyBoy]

Under special circumstances only, Military is weird that way. I had permanent orders that allowed my to carry government weapons in my POV.

Of course!! There are always special circumstances, exceptions and waivers! Always.

The other soldiers on post had to check their weapons in and out all the time, every time. A weapon unaccounted for in the arms room brought everything to a standstill until that weapon was accounted for. They were quite anal about that.

Or night vision goggles/destructive devices....sensitive items, everyones favorite shit show.

That's how it was for us.

We had to go find a Kiowa pilots night vision once, apparently the Sir was too good to tie his shit down like the rest of us and it fell out of the fuckin' bird.

And we once had a paperwork issue that showed a whole case of hand grenades missing

IDK what the issue was exactly but it was a paperwork issue, XO had fucked up.

Still caused a 4-5hr fuck around until everything had been gone through and figured out. Bad time to be a PVT

 

[suurfer]

I watched quite a few "dogs welcoming returning soldiers" videos, and they were filled with young, likeable guys.
Nothing like the stereotype that I grew up with - that soldiers tend to be illiterate or brutes.

I also understand that, unlike others, US army services also offer sone sort of education.

I'm also curious: what age are they forcibly retired? And what paths do most of them choose after that?



ETA

this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/bb/b5/26bbb5ecb2ea54069f33fad1869929c2.gif

 

[bellisarius]

In the US military virtually all officers are college grads, and a high percentage of senior non-com's are also college educated. By law no one with an IQ 81 or lower are allowed to serve and the ranks cannot consist of more than 20% of those with IQ's between 81 and 93. That threshold, 20%, is rarely reached because so many of the military jobs are so technically challenging.

Forced retirement? Highly variable with a LOT of exceptions. All officers are subject to recall in time of need regardless of age, even after retirement. Non-com's are not subject to recall. Unless forced out due to a dead end career it's rare for anyone to serve more than 30 years.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I watched quite a few "dogs welcoming returning soldiers" and they were filled with young, likeable guys.
Nothing like the stereotype that I grew up with - that soldiers tend to be illiterate or brutes.

I also understand that, unlike others, US army services also offer sone sort of education.

They allow education offer the GI bill, but you still have to be literate to get in.

I'm also curious: what age are they forcibly retired? And what paths do most of them choose after that?

Depends on rank/job and the needs of the military at the time.

I've seen medical, intel analyst, JAG and various other paper pushers/low impact jobs with 35+ years in service. If they are a good asset there is no reason the military can't keep them around.

Some jobs are such a physical thrashing they limit themselves. Like pro athletes most people who do them would be lucky to get to do their job for 15 years, 20 is rare and anything beyond that is usually so high ranking they don't actually do their jobs anymore.

Fighter pilots are a great example....they just can't, the machine will do more than most healthy 20 somethings can take much less a 45 or 50 year old can. An F-16 will rip the retinas off the back of their eyeballs and give them a heart attack or brain bleed.

 

[suurfer]

In the US military virtually all officers are college grads, and a high percentage of senior non-com's are also college educated.By law no one with an IQ 81 or lower are allowed to serve and the ranks cannot consist of more than 20% of those with IQ's between 81 and 93. That threshold, 20%, is rarely reached because so many of the military jobs are so technically challenging. .

Forced retirement? Highly variable with a LOT of exceptions. All officers are subject to recall in time of need regardless of age, even after retirement. Non-com's are not subject to recall. Unless forced out due to a dead end career it's rare for anyone to serve more than 30 years.

Aah, that's why.

When I was growing up, 6 months to a year military service was mandatory. So the typical soldier looked like a hormone filled, untrustworthy, not too bright young man.

It's a totally different look - what I saw on youtube.

Interestingly enough, I googled it and see that as of 2010, more and more SE and Eastern European countries have abandoned traditional conscription.
But I doubt that their ranks are filled with the best of youth, because the army doesn't have the prestige and social standing as in the US. You guys respect your soldiers.

 

[suurfer]

ACTUALLY - almost the entire Europe abandoned conscription.
It seems to have been a pretty global trend.
I'm surprised that of all, liberal countries like Denmark, Norway, Switzerland and Finland still hang on to it. So weird.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service

 

[jomar]

Yup.

I've never heard of soldiers or Marines taking their service weapons home.

Heard it in passing on the radio so googled and it was probably citing a 2006 change in Israeli military policy resulting in a 40% reduction in suicides.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Heard it in passing on the radio so googled and it was probably citing a 2006 change in Israeli military policy resulting in a 40% reduction in suicides.

Oh Israeli military...yea.

 

[Conager]

Oh Israeli military...yea.

...or the Swiss.

My Grandfather was at a training camp in Mexico when the armistice for the World War (I) was signed. They sent him home with a brand-new Springfield '03. Told him to hang on to it that they let him know if they needed him.

 

[cowslinger64]

...or the Swiss.

My Grandfather was at a training camp in Mexico when the armistice for the World War (I) was signed. They sent him home with a brand-new Springfield '03. Told him to hang on to it that they let him know if they needed him.

Cool story, bro...



He must be rolling over in his grave at how bad you've carried on the family name.

 

[HisArpy]

Cool story, bro...



He must be rolling over in his grave at how bad you've carried on the family name.

At least he had a grandfather. Whose name is known. And which he carries. Instead of his mother's flea collar. Like some...