Why do we forgive others?

[rgraham666]

I offer forgiveness because I hope to get it myself. Do unto others and all that.

That said, I'm not good at it. But I'm only human and forgive myself for it.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I forgive.

To me, forgiveness is not an abstract, singular passiveness. It's not a spoken word, and then there it is. I don't believe I have that power - to say to someone " You're forgiven" and everything will miraculously be ok, again.

Forgiveness is a process - firstly, of acknowledging that I have been done wrong, secondly of sharing that with the person involved, and thirdly, working through the issues, either on my own, or with this person. The last process for me, involves much reflection, as well as working with how I feel, and whatever else I need to do to find my balance, whether it be anger, resentment, sadness, disappointment.

To me, "I forgive" means - I acknowledge that something has happened, I have dealt with you, and now I am dealing with me. I take responsibility for my emotions. I won't look back at this, and blame you for how I feel. I choose to feel hurt or disappointed or angry. If I don't take responsibility, I give you the power, to hurt me with what you did.

And what it means in terms of YOU, is that I don't deny that you wronged me, but don't resent you, I don't condone what you did now, or in the future - I acknowledge it, but I won't allow what you did to have that power over me any longer.

Forgiveness is fundamentally about about ME and My peace, MY balance, MY " being ok" once I decide that I am ready for it.

And about it happening again in the future - it is my responsibility to ensure that it doesn't happen again, just as much as it is the other person's responsibility. If I trust enough to let that happen, it is my responsibility to deal with it - again.

I agree that the relationship will never be the same again, because conflict issues have impacted on it. That does not mean that things are worse - it could be a learning experience for both parties, and both grow - not only as individuals, but also together.

 

[rgraham666]

Well said, Vana.

 

[Pure]

i think only rg has mentioned reciprocity. should one's forgiveness policy reflect what one would like to be on the receiving end of?

so, are you hardliners (never forgive) content that you not ever be forgiven? that once you've made a mistake (in relation to someone), the person always remembers it and half expects it to be repeated, in which case severe consequences will follow.

 

[jomar]

I forgive.

To me, forgiveness is not an abstract, singular passiveness. It's not a spoken word, and then there it is. I don't believe I have that power - to say to someone " You're forgiven" and everything will miraculously be ok, again.

Forgiveness is a process - firstly, of acknowledging that I have been done wrong, secondly of sharing that with the person involved, and thirdly, working through the issues, either on my own, or with this person. The last process for me, involves much reflection, as well as working with how I feel, and whatever else I need to do to find my balance, whether it be anger, resentment, sadness, disappointment.

To me, "I forgive" means - I acknowledge that something has happened, I have dealt with you, and now I am dealing with me. I take responsibility for my emotions. I won't look back at this, and blame you for how I feel. I choose to feel hurt or disappointed or angry. If I don't take responsibility, I give you the power, to hurt me with what you did.

And what it means in terms of YOU, is that I don't deny that you wronged me, but don't resent you, I don't condone what you did now, or in the future - I acknowledge it, but I won't allow what you did to have that power over me any longer.

Forgiveness is fundamentally about about ME and My peace, MY balance, MY " being ok" once I decide that I am ready for it.

And about it happening again in the future - it is my responsibility to ensure that it doesn't happen again, just as much as it is the other person's responsibility. If I trust enough to let that happen, it is my responsibility to deal with it - again.

I agree that the relationship will never be the same again, because conflict issues have impacted on it. That does not mean that things are worse - it could be a learning experience for both parties, and both grow - not only as individuals, but also together.

Yes, well said and I agree. But I don't think think you always have to talk to the other person for the process of forgiveness to occur. It probably helps, but isn't nesessary.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Has anyone actually answered the 'Why?'

Yeah, I did in my first post here, and others have said the same thing: It sucks up a lot of enegy to stay mad. Forgiving frees you to focus on other, better things. Like Dar and Imp - they can focus on fucking each other, one having forgiven the other for callign her a bitch.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Originally Posted by elsol
And I would argue that many times, we allow forgiveness to be an enabler.

Because we do not have enough pride to say, "You will not do this to me again."... and the world is not a better place for it.

Whatever you think, forgiveness is not a weakness. It is a strength.

Taking someone back into your trust - co-worker, lover, spouse, even child, after a betrayal requires the sole attribute of love.

If you really, truly believe, if you you really,truly love, you will forgive whilst honesty survives. If honesty is gone, who would you trust to control the life-supprt machines

I'm with elsol. Sorry, but I can't help feeling this is just nice sounding words.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I forgive.

To me, forgiveness is not an abstract, singular passiveness. It's not a spoken word, and then there it is. I don't believe I have that power - to say to someone " You're forgiven" and everything will miraculously be ok, again.

Forgiveness is a process - firstly, of acknowledging that I have been done wrong, secondly of sharing that with the person involved, and thirdly, working through the issues, either on my own, or with this person. The last process for me, involves much reflection, as well as working with how I feel, and whatever else I need to do to find my balance, whether it be anger, resentment, sadness, disappointment.

To me, "I forgive" means - I acknowledge that something has happened, I have dealt with you, and now I am dealing with me. I take responsibility for my emotions. I won't look back at this, and blame you for how I feel. I choose to feel hurt or disappointed or angry. If I don't take responsibility, I give you the power, to hurt me with what you did.

And what it means in terms of YOU, is that I don't deny that you wronged me, but don't resent you, I don't condone what you did now, or in the future - I acknowledge it, but I won't allow what you did to have that power over me any longer.

Forgiveness is fundamentally about about ME and My peace, MY balance, MY " being ok" once I decide that I am ready for it.

And about it happening again in the future - it is my responsibility to ensure that it doesn't happen again, just as much as it is the other person's responsibility. If I trust enough to let that happen, it is my responsibility to deal with it - again.

I agree that the relationship will never be the same again, because conflict issues have impacted on it. That does not mean that things are worse - it could be a learning experience for both parties, and both grow - not only as individuals, but also together.

Vana is wise and beautiful.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

Vana is wise and beautiful.

You're slow today

-- Forgiveness? I'm not too sure. I can forget until im cued that i was wronged (those are relatively small wrongdoings of course) by a person. Depending on the degree of hurt i can forgive.

If it is a reoccuring theme and i feel i have done everything within my power to stop it being thus, but it hasnt worked, then i cannot forgive or forget. Of course, i'm the fool for allowing it to re-occur but as i said, having done what i thought was in my power.

That person who wrongs me continuously is not worth my effort- yet i do suupose there is some effort required to forgive and forget- a level of analysis to be undertaken- of myself, the situation, the future implications- the like.

I agree that relations are altered- negatively so in such instances. However, various influences impact upon relationships constantly, so in actual fact, i think any relationship that you are a part of is 'different' on some level every day. Perhaps the impact of a situation that calls for the assessment of forgiveness can be taken in stride?

I don't however agree that the forgiving process is for the self and the self alone. I very much find that forgiveness is about the other person too- but by no means is it an equal weighting. Once a verdict to forgive has been given, the internal drives and emotions are of course ones own. But until that point the wrong doer is a focus of consideration in swaying the verdict. After that point it is up to the wronged to internalise the incident, sort through it, study it if they so choose, disect it- discard it or retain it.

If it is chosen that a person or an act cannot be forgiven then the wronged person can do one of a few things- act as though nothing happened, allow it to fester having cut all ties, or allow the storm to pass but retain the knowledge of the incident in the forfront of their conciousness.

I think forgiveness can occur without forgetting. I think that no one ever truly forgets they just make the concious effort to never allow it to resurface. Though one cannot be held accountable if it resurfaces as a result of something out of their sphere of control.

However, i think such judgements are very very relative to the level of deception suffered. If it were a small incident of minor significance there may not even be a need for forgiveness as such, but if it were a bigger incident then level of thought and length of time thinking as well as potential verdict either way is potentially much longer.

 

[Liar]

If I held a grudge, I'd only have one hand left to do useful stuff with. If I held two, I couldn't even jerk off in peace.

Yes, it's a metaphor. Go figure. Bitterness takes energy I can't afford to waste. Or like a good friend of mine once said: Such a degradation takes too much dedication.

 

[jomar]

I don't however agree that the forgiving process is for the self and the self alone.

I agree with many things you say. But what of the instance, which is actually on another thread, of forgiving someone who has died? How can that benefit the deceased?

 

[jomar]

Deleted another repeat. Bad wireless connection. Repeat earlier joke.

 

[The_Fool]

I forgive and forget and move on. Or to put it in other words, I don't have time in my life for people that have broken trust with me. They no longer exist. By the same token, I don't hold grudges or maintain anger. They no longer exist.

 

[jomar]

I forgive and forget and move on. Or to put it in other words, I don't have time in my life for people that have broken trust with me. They no longer exist. By the same token, I don't hold grudges or maintain anger. They no longer exist.

Does that include family members? Has family made mistakes? Again, not trying to be contrary, but exploring.

 

[The_Fool]

Does that include family members? Has family made mistakes? Again, not trying to be contrary, but exploring.

Sometimes, yes....

 

[elsol]

i think only rg has mentioned reciprocity. should one's forgiveness policy reflect what one would like to be on the receiving end of?

so, are you hardliners (never forgive) content that you not ever be forgiven? that once you've made a mistake (in relation to someone), the person always remembers it and half expects it to be repeated, in which case severe consequences will follow.

I don't expect to be forgiven...

I don't believe in the 'mistake thing'; I've never stuck my dick in the 'wrong' woman and had it be a mistake. I made a choice... I might not have considered all the concequences or known better, but I didn't have an accident or make a mistake.

I expect my choices will force someone else to make their choices. I'm hoping and will do what I can for the choice that will be the least negative for me.

But yeah... I'm always surprised (shocked even) when they 'forgive' me... and yes, how easy or hard it was does get weighed when I want to make the choice again.

 

[Frank Noir]

Okay, so here's my take on the Buddhist idea of karma (I probably got it all wrong, but it works for me):

We can choose to make the world a better place by adding good stuff to it, or making it a worse place by adding bad stuff.

When someone hurts us, they add bad stuff. If we hold a grudge, wallow in self-pity or plot revenge, we just add more bad stuff. The wrong cannot be undone, but we can rise above it and move on. I'm not saying it's easy - I'm as human as the next guy. But I try.

But please note: That doesn't mean I have to stay with the woman who cheated on me - or keep working for the boss who bullies me. Sometimes the only way to avoid more suffering is to get the hell outta there...

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

I agree with many things you say. But what of the instance, which is actually on another thread, of forgiving someone who has died? How can that benefit the deceased?

As i have never been deceased i cannot answer this fully

No, really i dont suppose i have solid opinion on this (no answers as no one can really know the universal truth can they?)

Forgiving someone who has died (if i were to make an attempt at taking that apart) is first and foremost a personal act- something done for yourself. Now as to how that affects the deceased depends on your religious perspective of what death signifies- does it signify and end- that's it, no further? does it signify rebirth? eternity in heaven, hell or purgatory? does it suggest a final judgement day? The results and consequences of your act of forgiveness or not as the case may be are soley a matter of what you think happens when none passes from this life.

 

[neonlyte]

I agree with many things you say. But what of the instance, which is actually on another thread, of forgiving someone who has died? How can that benefit the deceased?

I don't however agree that the forgiving process is for the self and the self alone. I very much find that forgiveness is about the other person too- but by no means is it an equal weighting. Once a verdict to forgive has been given, the internal drives and emotions are of course ones own. But until that point the wrong doer is a focus of consideration in swaying the verdict. After that point it is up to the wronged to internalise the incident, sort through it, study it if they so choose, disect it- discard it or retain it.

In my case, which I think is what jomar is referencing, the act of forgiveness has less to do with my feelings and is more concerned with my brother-in-law. My forgiving is to understand his relationship - that there was more to their relationship than I ever saw. I was not privy to their earlier life, I only experienced the consequence of illness and witnessed the dramatic effect her illness imposed on those around her. It is easy to 'forgive' for his sake, to give him some peace of mind that his years of suffering were borne out of a love I can not begin to understand. I'm not sure I would have had his forbearance to accept the situation - and in that, we are all tested. Foregiveness is the supreme act of love in this instance and in their relationship. I don't need to be party to his forgiveness, it is self evident in the passage of years and devotion. I can forgive her for making his life hell, because she was ill. I cannot forgive/forget the malicious accusations, despite their foundation in illness, but they play no further part in moving forward. No point is served by dwelling on the past - the future is what is important.

 

[jomar]

I don't however agree that the forgiving process is for the self and the self alone. I very much find that forgiveness is about the other person too- but by no means is it an equal weighting.

As i have never been deceased i cannot answer this fully

No, really i dont suppose i have solid opinion on this (no answers as no one can really know the universal truth can they?)

Forgiving someone who has died (if i were to make an attempt at taking that apart) is first and foremost a personal act- something done for yourself. Now as to how that affects the deceased depends on your religious perspective of what death signifies- does it signify and end- that's it, no further? does it signify rebirth? eternity in heaven, hell or purgatory? does it suggest a final judgement day? The results and consequences of your act of forgiveness or not as the case may be are soley a matter of what you think happens when none passes from this life.

I should have been clearer. I wasn't really talking about the afterlife. I meant that forgiving can be done without ever talking to the other person and can be done in isolation. Looks like we agree on that.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

Forgiveness is a process - firstly, of acknowledging that I have been done wrong, secondly of sharing that with the person involved, and thirdly, working through the issues, either on my own, or with this person. The last process for me, involves much reflection, as well as working with how I feel, and whatever else I need to do to find my balance, whether it be anger, resentment, sadness, disappointment.

To me, "I forgive" means - I acknowledge that something has happened, I have dealt with you, and now I am dealing with me. I take responsibility for my emotions. I won't look back at this, and blame you for how I feel. I choose to feel hurt or disappointed or angry. If I don't take responsibility, I give you the power, to hurt me with what you did.

And what it means in terms of YOU, is that I don't deny that you wronged me, but don't resent you, I don't condone what you did now, or in the future - I acknowledge it, but I won't allow what you did to have that power over me any longer.

Forgiveness is fundamentally about about ME and My peace, MY balance, MY " being ok" once I decide that I am ready for it.

That about sums it up for me as well Vana.

Though I must admit for my future part yes I forgave but it doesnt mean I'll forget. Thats my safety trigger to keep myself from letting it happen again. I don't hold it against the person, I can still be friends with them but I won't allow the same thing to happen again.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

I should have been clearer. I wasn't really talking about the afterlife. I meant that forgiving can be done without ever talking to the other person and can be done in isolation. Looks like we agree on that.

I agree that it CAN be done without speaking to the wrong doer, but it is still very much about them- does that make sense? It's rare that the other person isnt aware that they have been forgiven or not, but it is possible to do so without them neccesarily being 'present'. Whether or not the wrong doer is present during one's thinking time is of no consequence as they are still a huge part of the forgiving process- ie. you can't just forgive the act, in effect that does nothing- the act did nothing wrong, it is the person who did the act that needs to have that judgement placed on them.

 

[scheherazade_79]

We forgive people because it gives us a sense of moral superiority - kind of like giving your ego a wank.

The only other reason I can think of is that sometimes you just can't be arsed to keep up the grudge.

 

[CharleyH]

Do we forgive others because the Bible tells us to? Because society expects us to and our parents taught us to? Or is forgiving more personal, actually a selfish act, more about ourselves than about others? What do you think?

I am not biblically inclined AT ALL, but I truly believe that we forgive because we can. We also forgive because we must - if we cannot forgive others, then we can never truly forgive ourselves.

 

[CharleyH]

should one's forgiveness policy reflect what one would like to be on the receiving end of?

Actually no, and never. I expect nothing from others. I expect from myself. It's not that I do not care about others, I do and act, but I am an existentialist on this point. If they do not forgive me? Well, I am always prepared for that. Does it matter? As a sane person it does for a while and then I realize ...in the end (death) I am alone and the only thing that matters is if I forgive myself.