Why do you hate Sarah Palin?

[Netzach]

Biden brings the pro abortion catholic vote. It's kind of a wasted pick for developing new talent. Biden got what? 32 votes in the primary? He'll be older than McCain in 8 years. Robinette is his middle name? Robinette? How quaint!

What new talent should they go for?

They're not going to convince anyone who is voting single issue against choice. Obama doesn't connect the way Bill does with that Iron Range kind of demo. They have the young who aren't voting single issue against choice. They're starting to swing the independents who are beginning to wonder if this "they're gonna take away your paycheck" is really letting them keep any more of their check after all. I mean here we are, the party is over, and now the gov't needs your paycheck after all. I'd rather have some of it skimmed so that my meds might not be something I have to bust my ass extra hours for as much, or so that there's not a new demographic of renters driving up my rent and making it harder to find apts if I want to move.

Crazily enough some people seem to be coming around to that, and realizing this doesn't magically turn us into the USSR, maybe something more akin to Iceland or Australia, those godless non-democracies.

 

[midwestyankee]

Biden brings the pro abortion catholic vote. It's kind of a wasted pick for developing new talent. Biden got what? 32 votes in the primary? He'll be older than McCain in 8 years. Robinette is his middle name? Robinette? How quaint!

Speaking of primary votes, how many delegates did Ms. Palin earn while presenting her case to the American people? Oh, that's right....not a flipping one. Of course, John Sidney McCain III knew that after using the new 5-minute Veepamatic from Ronco (not available in stores; buy now for three easy payments of only $850 Billion).

 

[WriterDom]

Just over one-third of voters (34%) say tonight’s vice presidential debate is Very Important to how they will vote.

So it all comes down to a debate that for 200 years we didn't think was necessary.

And I'm already locked in. If she cries I'm fucked.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I'm posting this entire article so y'all won't have to follow a link to it, but if you really want to, I'll post the source link at the bottom.

Skepticism of Palin growing, poll finds
Fewer than half of voters think she understands 'complex issues'

By Jon Cohen and Jennifer Agiesta
updated 2 hours, 52 minutes ago

With the vice presidential candidates set to square off today in their only scheduled debate, public assessments of Sarah Palin's readiness have plummeted, and she may now be a drag on the Republican ticket among key voter groups, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Tonight's heavily anticipated debate comes just five weeks after the popular Alaska governor entered the national spotlight as Sen. John McCain's surprise pick to be his running mate. Though she initially transformed the race with her energizing presence and a fiery convention speech, Palin is now a much less positive force: Six in 10 voters see her as lacking the experience to be an effective president, and a third are now less likely to vote for McCain because of her.

A month ago, voters rated Palin as highly as they did McCain or his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, but after weeks of intensive coverage and several perceived missteps, the shine has diminished.

Nearly a third of adults in a new poll from the Pew Research Center said they paid a lot of attention to Palin's interviews with CBS News's Katie Couric, a series that prompted grumbling among some conservative commentators about Palin's competency to be the GOP's vice presidential standard-bearer. The Pew poll showed views of Palin slipping over the past few days alone.

In the new Post-ABC poll, Palin matches the Democratic vice presidential candidate, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., on empathy, one of McCain's clear deficits against Obama, while fewer than half of voters think she understands "complex issues."

But it is the experience question that may prove her highest hurdle, particularly when paired with widespread public concern about McCain's age. About half of all voters said they were uncomfortable with the idea of McCain taking office at age 72, and 85 percent of those voters said Palin does not have the requisite experience to be president.

The 60 percent who now see Palin as insufficiently experienced to step into the presidency is steeply higher than in a Post-ABC poll after her nomination early last month. Democrats and Republicans alike are now more apt to doubt her qualifications, but the biggest shift has come among independents.

In early September, independents offered a divided verdict on Palin's experience; now they take the negative view by about 2 to 1. Nearly two-thirds of both independent men and women in the new poll said Palin has insufficient experience to run the White House.

Obama was able for the first time to crack the 50 percent mark, albeit barely, on whether he has the experience to be president following Friday's presidential debate, and the question is one of Palin's central challenges as she prepares to face Biden in prime time before a national television audience.

More than two-thirds of voters in the Pew poll said they plan to watch the debate, far more than said they were going to turn on the vice presidential debate four years ago.

Comment: That statistic gives me a little bit of optimism, that more people are actually becoming engaged enough in the process to watch and pay attention to the VP candidates as well as the standard-bearers.

The expectations are that Biden, a six-term senator, will win: Voters by a 19-point margin think he will prove to be the better debater.

In the new Post-ABC poll, majorities of conservatives and Republicans maintain that Palin has the necessary experience to step in as president, though those numbers are also down somewhat from early last month.

But a third of independent voters now indicate they are less likely to support McCain because of Palin, compared with 20 percent who said so in an ABC poll a month ago. Palin now repels more independents than she attracts to McCain. The share of independent women less apt to support McCain because of the Palin pick has more than doubled to 34 percent, while the percentage more inclined to support him is down eight points.

White Catholics, another important group of swing voters, also are now more likely to say that Palin dampens their support for McCain.

Still, nearly half of both white Catholics and independents said she does not affect their votes. Even more, about six in 10, said Obama's pick of Biden did not change their chances of voting Democratic.

The history of vice presidential picks suggests they are rarely consequential, and in a July Post-ABC poll, the nominees' choice for No. 2 was last on a list of 17 items voters said might sway their decisions.

The reaction to Palin, however, has been uncharacteristically strong.

Nearly three in 10 independent women have intensely unfavorable opinions of her, more than twice the proportion holding such views of Biden. And a majority of Democratic women now have "strongly unfavorable" views of Palin, up sharply from just after she accepted the nomination.

Among all voters, 29 percent have "strongly favorable" views, and an exactly offsetting number hold intensely negative ones. Attitudes toward Biden are more subdued.

Overall, 51 percent of voters view Palin favorably; for Biden, that number is a bit higher at 57 percent.

The vice presidential hopefuls run about evenly among all voters and among independents on the question of whether they "understand the problems of people like you." That is an important factor for the GOP ticket, as McCain continues to trail Obama as the candidate more in tune with the financial problems Americans face.

White married women are particularly likely to see Palin as in touch, as three-quarters said she understands their concerns. At the same time, a majority of such women do not think Palin has enough experience to be a good president. (White married women support the GOP ticket by a 20-point margin.)

Palin runs far behind Biden on another important attribute: About three-quarters of those surveyed said he understands complex issues, compared with 46 percent who said so of her.

On the eve of the presidential election in 2000, 76 percent said Al Gore had a solid grasp of hard issues; 60 percent said so of George W. Bush. Comment: WTF???

Despite Palin's slip in public assessments, the boost she has provided among some core segments of the GOP base has not faded. Enthusiasm for McCain's candidacy among Republicans, conservatives and white evangelical Protestants climbed sharply after the party's convention in St. Paul, Minn., where Palin made her debut, and it has held relatively steady since.

But even within these Republican strongholds, questions about Palin's experience are fairly common. About four in 10 conservatives and white evangelical Protestants, three in 10 Republicans and a quarter of GOP women said she does not have the necessary experience.

The Post-ABC poll was conducted by telephone Sept. 27 to 29 among a random sample of adults nationally, including interviews with 1,070 registered voters. The results have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points. Error margins for subgroups are higher.​

The promised source link.

 

[Netzach]

Just over one-third of voters (34%) say tonight’s vice presidential debate is Very Important to how they will vote.

So it all comes down to a debate that for 200 years we didn't think was necessary.

And I'm already locked in. If she cries I'm fucked.

I actually saw something really telling, when they did the daily schlep thing on the Daily Show (I know I know) believe it or not.

Their comedic bit really encapsulated the Jewish Oldster scene, faked or unfaked.

Zadie and Bubbe really WANT to vote McCain, they hate Obama, but they're appalled by Palin except for one who's a rabid fan. One of them is like"why is he doing this???" Two or three of them are Obama voters. Most are tepid on her.

That's a loss there. Some of 'em may sit home. Yes, it's very important, but that may not always be a good thing.

And everyone wants those voters. McCain's been push-polling them after wringing his hands that Romney was stooping to push-polls against him.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Just over one-third of voters (34%) say tonight’s vice presidential debate is Very Important to how they will vote.

So it all comes down to a debate that for 200 years we didn't think was necessary.

And I'm already locked in. If she cries I'm fucked.

.... More than two-thirds of voters in the Pew poll said they plan to watch the debate, far more than said they were going to turn on the vice presidential debate four years ago.​

So 68% or more plan to watch the debate, and half of those (34%) say it will be very important to their vote. Interesting. Voters actually thinking about the possibility of a President dying in office and who would succeed him. Is our nation actually getting (a little) smarter?

 

[JMohegan]

Just over one-third of voters (34%) say tonight’s vice presidential debate is Very Important to how they will vote.

So it all comes down to a debate that for 200 years we didn't think was necessary.

And I'm already locked in. If she cries I'm fucked.

She's not gonna cry. She'll be the same smiling attack dog that she was on her convention night.

WD, you're the only person I know who describes himself as fiscally conservative & socially non-right wing, yet is still pro McCain.

The conservatives I know saw the Palin pick as an appalling betrayal by McCain - and one they can not forgive unless & until she's removed from the ticket. Why? Because they HATE the culture wars and the Limbaugh/Dobson anti-intellectual vitriol crowd. And they genuinely believe that McCain is more qualified than Obama to be POTUS from a foreign policy perspective, but also believe that having Ms. "I saw Putin's head floating over Alaska so I get Russia" as a heartbeat away is too great a risk to take.

Finally, they don't buy this "oh she's a real person who understands your problems" crap. First of all, there's absolutely no evidence that Palin understands all that much about what life is like in the Lower 48 - outside of places like Idaho or Montana, perhaps. And more importantly, these conservatives don't believe that understanding the problems of the average person is an adequate substitute for understanding the pros & cons of complex *solutions* to those problems.

 

[intothewoods]

I actually saw something really telling, when they did the daily schlep thing on the Daily Show (I know I know) believe it or not.

Their comedic bit really encapsulated the Jewish Oldster scene, faked or unfaked.

Zadie and Bubbe really WANT to vote McCain, they hate Obama, but they're appalled by Palin except for one who's a rabid fan. One of them is like"why is he doing this???" Two or three of them are Obama voters. Most are tepid on her.

That's a loss there. Some of 'em may sit home. Yes, it's very important, but that may not always be a good thing.

And everyone wants those voters. McCain's been push-polling them after wringing his hands that Romney was stooping to push-polls against him.

When did all Jewish grandparents go Republican? I'm so confused.

Speaking of religion, I am praying that Biden is just methodical tonight. Someone said, he needs to ignore Palin and speak to McCain. Yes. Let Palin implode.

 

[Netzach]

When did all Jewish grandparents go Republican? I'm so confused.

Speaking of religion, I am praying that Biden is just methodical tonight. Someone said, he needs to ignore Palin and speak to McCain. Yes. Let Palin implode.

I'm not the right person to ask the former, as mine didn't "go" they were. Got me. Great grampa was a union organizer, I must have those genes.

Anyone want to make predictions?

Here's mine.

She'll hold her own. Not enough to WIN HUGELY in the eyes of anyone but rabid fans, but she's not going to melt down. The bar is low. It will help her personal popularity ratings, but the Russia/Montenegro stuff emerging on McCain I think has some legs, the economy is still the economy and McCain is going to need as much camp and coaching and then some to become remotely attractive and less cantankerous and fuddy in his presence. I think the bleed is over, but I don't think the bounce is going to be what it was last time. Even if there is a bounce/lift it's going to take a talk show or two to trash it again. Plus - troopergate. It's time to talk about this shit - she may be impeached in her own state, really.

Biden may say something dumb, but I doubt it. His advantage in this is I think he's got enough knowledge to be fluid - she has one song to sing here. He's got a repertoire. He can shift in tone and detail and play to *just* a hair above her level if he's smart.

 

[WriterDom]

She's not gonna cry. She'll be the same smiling attack dog that she was on her convention night.

WD, you're the only person I know who describes himself as fiscally conservative & socially non-right wing, yet is still pro McCain.

The conservatives I know saw the Palin pick as an appalling betrayal by McCain - and one they can not forgive unless & until she's removed from the ticket. Why? Because they HATE the culture wars and the Limbaugh/Dobson anti-intellectual vitriol crowd. And they genuinely believe that McCain is more qualified than Obama to be POTUS from a foreign policy perspective, but also believe that having Ms. "I saw Putin's head floating over Alaska so I get Russia" as a heartbeat away is too great a risk to take.

Finally, they don't buy this "oh she's a real person who understands your problems" crap. First of all, there's absolutely no evidence that Palin understands all that much about what life is like in the Lower 48 - outside of places like Idaho or Montana, perhaps. And more importantly, these conservatives don't believe that understanding the problems of the average person is an adequate substitute for understanding the pros & cons of complex *solutions* to those problems.

Well, it's not like I have a McCain sign in the yard or anything. Mitt Romney was my first choice but I doubt any other republican could pull off a victory except for McCain.

Sarah is very popular here, even with people who lean to the left. Only two guys on the local board hate her and they'd fit in nicely here. A journalism professor and his disc golf blogger buddy.

 

[Netzach]

However part 2 of my prediction is that Ms. Affirmative Action Special Olympian of course you're a winner is going to be hailed as a genius in the media, because they don't want to be trounced as biased or sexist by the right no matter what she does. If they spank her any more the news cycle's going to dry up a little. Can't have that.

Look for Biden jokes on SNL - I'm serious.

 

[Netzach]

Well, it's not like I have a McCain sign in the yard or anything. Mitt Romney was my first choice but I doubt any other republican could pull off a victory except for McCain.

Sarah is very popular here, even with people who lean to the left. Only two guys on the local board hate her and they'd fit in nicely here. A journalism professor and his disc golf blogger buddy.

As you know we may be blue but we're really independent purple. MN is a Sarah Palin kinda state in a way.

Ron Paul signs are still more plentiful than McCain.

 

[Netzach]

I also think that while they're busy complaining about Gwen Ifil whose publisher probably chose her book title because "Obama" anything sells books, duh, they should be sighing relief. She's a very gentle, poker-faced, fair moderator and a class act and they KNOW it. No one complained when she did Edwards/Cheney.

If she were a white woman who wrote a book titled "feminism on the frontier, women in rural political landscapes" no one would be saying jack.

 

[JMohegan]

Well, it's not like I have a McCain sign in the yard or anything. Mitt Romney was my first choice but I doubt any other republican could pull off a victory except for McCain.

Sarah is very popular here, even with people who lean to the left. Only two guys on the local board hate her and they'd fit in nicely here. A journalism professor and his disc golf blogger buddy.

Vote Republican is not a mantra that my conservative friends are willing to embrace in this election.

They don't see this a personality contest or a love/hate thing. This is about grasp of issues, range of experience, and intellectual competence. Most of all, this is about what the selection of Sarah Palin says about John McCain.

 

[bambikiller]

I can't believe I looked at this thread again.
God I hate slow work periods.

OK you guys you win you convinced me that Palin is inexperienced, almost as much as Obama is. Isn't he the one running for president

 

[Netzach]

I can't believe I looked at this thread again.
God I hate slow work periods.

OK you guys you win you convinced me that Palin is inexperienced, almost as much as Obama is. Isn't he the one running for president

Governor of a state with a fragment of the population of Chicago for a year. Go back to work.

 

[JMohegan]

I also think that while they're busy complaining about Gwen Ifil whose publisher probably chose her book title because "Obama" anything sells books, duh, they should be sighing relief. She's a very gentle, poker-faced, fair moderator and a class act and they KNOW it. No one complained when she did Edwards/Cheney.

If she were a white woman who wrote a book titled "feminism on the frontier, women in rural political landscapes" no one would be saying jack.

The sudden objection to Ifill is an obvious Rovian ploy, to get the moderator second guessing herself and the rest of us distracted from the real question at hand. The existence of the book is not news. If the objection is sincere, why wasn't it made months ago?

Here is an article from Sept. 4, talking about Ifill as a journalist, the book she is writing, and other things. An excerpt from that piece:



As Barack Obama was claiming the Democratic nomination in Denver, Ifill says, a white television reporter asked her: "Aren't you just blown away by all of this?" She said she was not.

"Aren't you in the tank?" the reporter wondered.

On one level, Ifill says, she views this moment as the daughter of a black minister who marched in civil rights demonstrations and who she wishes were alive to see what Obama has achieved. But as a journalist, she says: "I still don't know if he'll be a good president. I'm still capable of looking at his pros and cons in a political sense." Besides, Ifill says, "no one's ever assumed a white reporter can't cover a white candidate."

 

[midwestyankee]

<snip>

Anyone want to make predictions?

<snip>

And mine:

Biden will play it cool, much like he did when he was asked during a primary debate if he could discipline himself to stay on message both as a campaigner and as President. Given one minute to respond, his complete answer was, "Yes." While he will be gracious toward his rival, he will be talking to the audience and will focus the attention of his remarks on the positions (and dangers thereof) of the McCain campaign.

Palin will fill her answers with talking-points platitudes, folksy charm, and that practiced smile she learned in Beauty Pageants 100. Most of her answers will appear to be full sentences but upon video review will be revealed to be impenetrable by even the most modern weapons of grammatical analysis.

Gwen Ifill will be a moderate moderator, asking fair questions that any reasonable candidate for the Vice Presidency should answer so the people can be informed about his or her experience, world view, and capabilities.

The talking heads on Fox will declare a blowout victory for Palin as long as she doesn't puke into her shoes (she won't). They will claim that Biden made a gaffe with every breath.

The instant-response polls will show slight improvements for the Obama-Biden ticket among independents, voters over 65, and women.

 

[midwestyankee]

Governor of a state with a fragment of the population of Chicago for a year. Go back to work.

Hell, there are almost as many Green Bay Packers fans living in Chicagoland as there are people in Alaska!

 

[Netzach]

The sudden objection to Ifill is an obvious Rovian ploy, to get the moderator second guessing herself and the rest of us distracted from the real question at hand. The existence of the book is not news. If the objection is sincere, why wasn't it made months ago?

Here is an article from Sept. 4, talking about Ifill as a journalist, the book she is writing, and other things. An excerpt from that piece:



As Barack Obama was claiming the Democratic nomination in Denver, Ifill says, a white television reporter asked her: "Aren't you just blown away by all of this?" She said she was not.

"Aren't you in the tank?" the reporter wondered.

On one level, Ifill says, she views this moment as the daughter of a black minister who marched in civil rights demonstrations and who she wishes were alive to see what Obama has achieved. But as a journalist, she says: "I still don't know if he'll be a good president. I'm still capable of looking at his pros and cons in a political sense." Besides, Ifill says, "no one's ever assumed a white reporter can't cover a white candidate."

Another great moment in politics. Get the debate committee to change the very structure of the debate in your favor because your candidate is soooo suckass. Then complain because the moderator might have a personal bias not in your favor, even with a strong track record of being impartial.

 

[WriterDom]

Governor of a state with a fragment of the population of Chicago for a year. Go back to work.

What difference does population make? Wouldn't she have to run all the state agencies as California does? She still signs the checks of 15,000 workers. Obama and Biden have ZERO executive experience. Biden has only had a real job for two years before he wrapped his lips around the government teat.

 

[bambikiller]

Delaware and Alaska have pretty close to the same population and yet no one says Joe can't be V.P. Why

 

[Netzach]

Delaware and Alaska have pretty close to the same population and yet no one says Joe can't be V.P. Why

Because he's been doing this for 26 years.

This really isn't that hard.

 

[Netzach]

What difference does population make? Wouldn't she have to run all the state agencies as California does? She still signs the checks of 15,000 workers. Obama and Biden have ZERO executive experience. Biden has only had a real job for two years before he wrapped his lips around the government teat.

It makes a huge difference to me, because I live in a city not mooseburgerville. You can't just fire people and give jobs to your friends and cut taxes cut taxes cut taxes with impunity. That works in Anchorage. That does not work in NYC.

80 percent of this country lives in cities and burbs.

If she seemed remotely interested in urban issues, if she seemed inclined to listen or admit this is a knowledge gap or problem, I'd be less worried about it. No such luck. I can field dress a Moose. Great.

35 W FELL DOWN on the watch of Tim Pawlenty, the most veto pen happy asshole ever elected here, we don't need no stinkin' roads and schools. Do I need to explain further why suzie rural has no business running the whole country?

 

[Netzach]

What difference does population make? Wouldn't she have to run all the state agencies as California does? She still signs the checks of 15,000 workers. Obama and Biden have ZERO executive experience. Biden has only had a real job for two years before he wrapped his lips around the government teat.

Mc Cain was also never a Governor. Since senate is a joke, I assume that that quarter century at the Gov't teat is just as stupid.