Sean
We'll see.
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Will Obama issue and executive order to "forgive" all student debt?
- Thread starter AlexVega
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Yikes, looks like someone has a new stalker. Julie, be nice you know what happens when you get angry. Little Napoleon comes out and that is never good for you. Would it help if I told you how awesome you are?
Sean
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I understand the anger you have. Clearly, the sooner you discover the root and accept responsibility then you can go on and achieve things in life. You want that, don't you? To take pride and become a winner? ... ken/Julie?
Sean
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Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Then school becomes exclusive to the rich. We tried this and it was such a failure no country has ever gone back.
They wouldn't, but why shouldn't a person with a degree in underwater basketweaving qualify for a job at McDonalds is the assertion you have made.
Nearly every big tech company you can name off the top of your head resides in California. This is because California (especially in the 70's and 80's less so today) had a socialist system that provided us with an incredibly educated workforce. Basically you built Netflix in California not because you wouldn't be smarter (taxwise) to build your company out of Bumfuck Alabama but because you can't find programmers in places with shitty education.
richard_daily
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I understand the value of competition.
I also understand the limitations of capitalism.
Do you?
Please, you hate capitalism and fear competition. Pretty simple.
Liar
now with 17% more class
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richard_daily
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It was a rhetorical question.
Then why are you against competition? For the most part, you are a closet socialist. nuff said as that speaks volume to your lack of character and moral fiber.
Sean Renaud
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What part of what I posted was wrong? Most of the big tech companies are out of California or do you have another explanation?
As for competition you need the government to maintain competetion. Otherwise you have a winner who is unlikely to ever lose.
As for competition you need the government to maintain competetion. Otherwise you have a winner who is unlikely to ever lose.
See, this is the part of what you fail to understand about business. This is why I know, with out a doubt, you are not self employed.
Sean Renaud
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If you understand it please explain it, otherwise stop claiming that I don't understand. To be fair this is a lesson you learn by reading up on your history and less by running a business. In business you mostly know what the big guys are doing and other than UPS occasionally wanting to knock my dick in teh dirt and if they ever get serious they'll take me out this isn't huge for my industry.
Lord Pmann
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I'll address each one of these remarks because they are pretty absurd. The one by Richard isn't so absurd as naive.
Should education be ONLY about ROI? No. Should it be a big part of it? Yes. I've taken classes before that have been for my own betterment. Not classes that apply to my career. However, I take them with the knowledge and expectation that that money is spent for me.
What would YOUR idea of education and cost be for people who want a degree in women's studies? Should they get paid the same as a programmer? The job market determines someone's worth. It's very simple. People who get paid little get paid little because their skills are less desirable or because there is an abundance of people in that field. If everyone starts becoming a programmer and they're good, then the pay for programmers will lower.
What sciences? There are a lot of sciences that just aren't employable on any major scale. Physics. Chemistry. Biology. There are very few jobs (relatively speaking) that exist for people with just a bachelor's in those and, apparently, even those with doctorates. And if you consider the soft sciences, then forget it. If you're going to get a doctorate in physics or chemistry, you need to be prepared to ask if you would like cream with your coffee. Why on earth would someone go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a degree that doesn't have jobs? Because you like it? I like music. I'm actually pretty well trained. But I didn't go to school for it because I didn't want to be poor.
So why should someone be able to get a job with a degree in women's studies? Or anthropology? Because they have a piece of paper that says they worked hard? The market determines what jobs are worth. If you get a degree in medicine, you'll be employed. If you get a degree in engineering, you'll be employed. If you get a degree in nursing, you'll be employed.
I can't deny if Obama paid off his debts. I don't really care. If he just recently paid off his debts, then he's a shit money manager.
There is personal responsibility. If you choose to go to a school that costs $50k a year and major in liberal art or some other low paying degree, don't cry foul when you're in debt. The information about average starting pay is plastered all over the Internet.
Should education be ONLY about ROI? No. Should it be a big part of it? Yes. I've taken classes before that have been for my own betterment. Not classes that apply to my career. However, I take them with the knowledge and expectation that that money is spent for me.
What would YOUR idea of education and cost be for people who want a degree in women's studies? Should they get paid the same as a programmer? The job market determines someone's worth. It's very simple. People who get paid little get paid little because their skills are less desirable or because there is an abundance of people in that field. If everyone starts becoming a programmer and they're good, then the pay for programmers will lower.
What sciences? There are a lot of sciences that just aren't employable on any major scale. Physics. Chemistry. Biology. There are very few jobs (relatively speaking) that exist for people with just a bachelor's in those and, apparently, even those with doctorates. And if you consider the soft sciences, then forget it. If you're going to get a doctorate in physics or chemistry, you need to be prepared to ask if you would like cream with your coffee. Why on earth would someone go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a degree that doesn't have jobs? Because you like it? I like music. I'm actually pretty well trained. But I didn't go to school for it because I didn't want to be poor.
So why should someone be able to get a job with a degree in women's studies? Or anthropology? Because they have a piece of paper that says they worked hard? The market determines what jobs are worth. If you get a degree in medicine, you'll be employed. If you get a degree in engineering, you'll be employed. If you get a degree in nursing, you'll be employed.
I can't deny if Obama paid off his debts. I don't really care. If he just recently paid off his debts, then he's a shit money manager.
There is personal responsibility. If you choose to go to a school that costs $50k a year and major in liberal art or some other low paying degree, don't cry foul when you're in debt. The information about average starting pay is plastered all over the Internet.
Lord Pmann
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Translation: changes keyboards out for the people at Comcast
Yeah, but didn't want to piss him off. Oh wait
Sean Renaud
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Because you shouldn't need a degree in the first place to get a job ffs. If you do then we should change our education system so that you have one by the time you are expected to make it on your own.
And again Obama and my sister are lawyers. School costs are rediculous no matter what the fuck you do.
Lord Pmann
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You do not need a college degree to get a job. There are a lot of trades that do not require college degrees. Mechanics make a hell of a living and they are not degreed individuals for the most part. Welders. Electricians. Plumbers. Cops. Fireman. What you mean is you can't get a white collared job without a degree.
And why shouldn't you need a degree to do a job? According to whom? You? I think that is up to the judgment of the person paying for their employee.
There are certain jobs that you need a degree in order to do. Certain jobs require you to have a degree by law in order to be called the title of your position. But I suspect they should just hand those out evenly amongst everybody? You know, to make it fair.
I get that Obama and your sister are lawyers. But did they not sign up for one of the most expensive schools in the nation? Were they tricked into the pricing? I am pretty sure I can go on Harvard's website tonight and find the cost. I can also find out what the average salary of a lawyer is. If it doesn't make sense to put myself in several hundred thousand dollars worth of debt then maybe I shouldn't do it. Just because I want a law degree doesn't mean I should get one. Or it doesn't mean that I can afford it. Obama's law degree sure paid off for him. The problem is with so many, is they get their degree in something like a law or medicine and they automatically start living to the maximum capacity of their salaries. Their student debt linger for 20 years all while they're living in a half million dollar home.
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Sean Renaud
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No. Given the number of reported college grads who are unemployed I mean a job. Not a white collar one which is why I specifically mentioned McDonalds above and not just once.
And the jobs you mention are nearly all credentialed/accredited/licensed whatever their profession chooses to call it with the possible exception of mechanic. Not sure there.
Nobody is talkinga bout fair.
Nobody was tricked but the prices are still completely rediculous. The rest of your point is only accurate in a world where you would make MORE money with less education which isn't the world anybody lives in right now.
Lord Pmann
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Again, show me people with engineering degrees, computer science degrees, medical degrees who are unemployed. It has to do with what kind of degree you get. There is this notion that if you go to college and get a degree you will automatically get a well-paying job. That sounds fantastic. But there has to be a need for that particular type of job otherwise they will be unemployed. It is simple supply and demand. If you produce 1000 widgets and the market only calls for 500, then there are going to be 500 useless widgets at the unemployment office. You cannot create jobs where they are not needed. We don't need more people with bachelors degrees in psychology.
I believe that every one of those professions I listed can be entered into without any schooling. They are typically apprenticeship programs. You do not have to have a college degree for them. They're on the job training.
Why are the prices for that school ridiculous? Why didn't your sister go to another law school that was more affordable? The prices are what they are because people will pay them. If people stopped going to Harvard in the price wouldn't be that high. Your notion of how supply and demand works is very elementary. Do you know why people don't pay $300,000 to become a mechanic? Because there is no possibility that you were going to make $500k/year. However, going to Harvard Law you are exposed to very high in firms and you make a lot of connections. It is why people take on that risk. Or it is an element of pride. The option to go to any other law school is there. Law schools are cheap in general. But there are much more affordable ones that Harvard.
snugglestruggle
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"Thank you for calling 1-800- telefono, My name is Sean , How may I be helping you this morning lady Ma'am".
I couldn't resist *snickers
Lord Pmann
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"Did you try turning your computer off and rebooting?"
Sean Renaud
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I shouldn't be able to show you a person with a degree PERIOD who is unemployed. Not a well paying job, but a job period. If your degree is in basketweaving you should have no problem finding a job and if you do the system is broken.
I would qualify apprenticeship as school in all but the most formal manner. On that point I'm not disagreeing with you mind you.
The prices in that case are high because prestige matters and why not go somewhere else, because you get paid less if you go someplace else. Prestige matters, also who you know matters and you don't meet future presidents (not that she's old enough to know Obama nor am I but 6 presidents have come out of that place and 4 VPs.
If people stopped going to Harvard they wouldn't make money, it's the same attitude as that email that goes around everytime gas prices go up about if we boycott so and so gas prices all gas will go down as the market takes hold. If you want the big bucks you pay the big bucks, that's how it works.
I would qualify apprenticeship as school in all but the most formal manner. On that point I'm not disagreeing with you mind you.
The prices in that case are high because prestige matters and why not go somewhere else, because you get paid less if you go someplace else. Prestige matters, also who you know matters and you don't meet future presidents (not that she's old enough to know Obama nor am I but 6 presidents have come out of that place and 4 VPs.
If people stopped going to Harvard they wouldn't make money, it's the same attitude as that email that goes around everytime gas prices go up about if we boycott so and so gas prices all gas will go down as the market takes hold. If you want the big bucks you pay the big bucks, that's how it works.
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