Without Blacks, America would be a nice place to live…

[Mike_Yates]

~~~


Shhhh...(that Blacks generally test 15% lower on IQ tests is a trade secret!)

(ami) I'm small and hiding...(NOT) smiles

So do Hispanics.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Whether you acknowledge it or not, people have a right to be racist if they so choose.
amicus

Correct for once.

You have every right to be a racist bigoted misogynist piece of shit.
And we have every right to ridicule you for your backward-assed opinions.
Just because you have a right to express your opinions does not mean that anyone else has to respect them, or you.

 

[lustatopia]

"Myth #3: Lincoln championed equality and natural rights. His words and, more important, his actions, repudiate this myth."I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races," he announced in his Aug. 21, 1858, debate with Stephen Douglas. "I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position." And, "Free them [slaves] and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this. We cannot, then, make them equals."

"In Springfield, Ill., on July 17, 1858, Lincoln said, "What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." On Sept. 18, 1858, in Charleston, Ill., he said: "I will to the very last stand by the law of this state, which forbids the marrying of white people with Negroes."

"Lincoln supported the Illinois Constitution, which prohibited the emigration of black people into the state, and he also supported the Illinois Black Codes, which deprived the small number of free blacks in the state any semblance of citizenship. He strongly supported the Fugitive Slave Act, which compelled Northern states to capture runaway slaves and return them to their owners. In his First Inaugural he pledged his support of a proposed constitutional amendment that had just passed the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives that would have prohibited the federal government from ever having the power "to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State." In his First Inaugural Lincoln advocated making this amendment "express and irrevocable."

"Lincoln was also a lifelong advocate of "colonization" or shipping all black people to Africa, Central America, Haiti--anywhere but here. "I cannot make it better known than it already is," he stated in a Dec. 1, 1862, Message to Congress, "that I strongly favor colonization." To Lincoln, blacks could be "equal," but not in the United States."

Let's put myths to rest by Thomas Dilorenzo

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo44.html

Let's not create new myths, either:

The Emancipation Proclamation is an executive order issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, during the American Civil War under his war powers. It proclaimed the freedom of 3.1 million of the nation's 4 million slaves, and immediately freed 50,000 of them, with the rest freed as Union armies advanced.

On September 22, 1862, Lincoln announced that he would issue a formal emancipation of all slaves in any state of the Confederate States of America that did not return to Union control by January 1, 1863. None did return and the actual order, signed and issued January 1, 1863, took effect except in locations where the Union had already mostly regained control. The Proclamation made abolition a central goal of the war (in addition to reunion), outraged white Southerners who envisioned a race war, angered some Northern Democrats, energized anti-slavery forces, and weakened forces in Europe that wanted to intervene to help the Confederacy.

Total abolition of slavery was finalized by the Thirteenth Amendment which took effect in December 1865.

Lincoln was a politician and a man of his times. His ultimate actions speak louder 150 years later than anything he said within the social milieu in which he had to abide. It's the fact that Lincoln's ultimate results were so far ahead of his age that's outstanding, not the fact that he also appeased the dominant paradigm of the day in order to maintain popular support while pursuing a higher agenda.

Don't be fooled by literalism. Lincoln WAS an emancipationist.

The pathetic thing here is that Amicus in 2011 imagines sharing the worst ideological aspects great Americans held over 150 years ago some how imparts moral authority down through the years.

But it only proves that Amicus is a reactionary fruitcake.

 

[The_Trouvere]

There has been little if any effort to refute amicus' arguments. In the United States conservatives find these arguments embarrassing, but liberals find them impossible to refute.

I am a Democrat, and a social democrat. I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 with hope. I will vote for him in 2012, but without enthusiasm. He has been a disappointment.

During the 1960s Lyndon Johnson signed three civil rights bills, and declared war on poverty. His, and the Democrats' reward, was five years of black ghetto riots, and more durable increases in black social pathology. Although the Kerner Commission of 1968 blamed the riots on white racism, they happened after the civil rights bill of 1964 was signed. They did not happen in the South. Whites noticed that they ended abruptly with the inauguration of Richard Nixon.

Those riots made the United States a Republican country. During the 1960s the Democrat Party went out on a limb to help the blacks. Blacks cut off the limb.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Amicus is a reactionary fruitcake.

Insults like those do not advance an intelligent discussion of serious social problems. You have said nothing about amicus, lustatopia. You have revealed your inability to debate rationally.

 

[Ishmael]

Let's not create new myths, either:



Lincoln was a politician and a man of his times. His ultimate actions speak louder 150 years later than anything he said within the social milieu in which he had to abide. It's the fact that Lincoln's ultimate results were so far ahead of his age that's outstanding, not the fact that he also appeased the dominant paradigm of the day in order to maintain popular support while pursuing a higher agenda.

Don't be fooled by literalism. Lincoln WAS an emancipationist.

The pathetic thing here is that Amicus in 2011 imagines sharing the worst ideological aspects great Americans held over 150 years ago some how imparts moral authority down through the years.

But it only proves that Amicus is a reactionary fruitcake.

No, he was a pragmatist.

Ishmael

 

[lustatopia]

Insults like those do not advance an intelligent discussion of serious social problems. You have said nothing about amicus, lustatopia. You have revealed your inability to debate rationally.

We were NOT having "an intelligent discussion" about social problem. RTFT. Amicus was pretending social problems were a moral justification for racism. I deconstructed his justification and then he came back with Jefferson, Madison, et al (Founding Fathers), had a plan to ship blacks back to Africa after the civil war. That's fruity tooty in my book. How 'bout yours?

There has been little if any effort to refute amicus' arguments. In the United States conservatives find these arguments embarrassing, but liberals find them impossible to refute.

Really? Please explain how my arguments fail? I thought I wiped the floor with his racist rhetoric. And, Uh, I doubt Liberals really require your assistance in this matter.

I am a Democrat, and a social democrat. I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 with hope. I will vote for him in 2012, but without enthusiasm. He has been a disappointment.

Normally, when rational people are shown to have been mistaken they alter their opinions to accommodate reality. But no, you declare you'll vote for the worse President since at least Jimmy Carter before even knowing who the competition is. Way to keep an open mind, Mr. Social Democrat...

During the 1960s Lyndon Johnson signed three civil rights bills, and declared war on poverty. His, and the Democrats' reward, was five years of black ghetto riots, and more durable increases in black social pathology. Although the Kerner Commission of 1968 blamed the riots on white racism, they happened after the civil rights bill of 1964 was signed. They did not happen in the South. Whites noticed that they ended abruptly with the inauguration of Richard Nixon.

Those riots made the United States a Republican country. During the 1960s the Democrat Party went out on a limb to help the blacks. Blacks cut off the limb.

That's actually the most unusual interpretation of the civil right movement I've ever heard. For that you get a gold star for originality. In fact, it took until the Clinton years before it was widely accepted that the perverse incentives inherent in our welfare system had destroyed the black family structure and led to increases in black social pathology. But Clinton did too little too late, by then a generational cycle of dependence had been established. The sad part is that democrats are so intellectually bankrupt they plan to continue to inject more of the same poison into the patient as the cure.

Why am I not surprised that the extreme Left and the extreme Right have more in common with each other than with those of us in the middle?

Pathetic. Go sit in the corner with the reactionary fruitcake.

 

[lustatopia]

No, he was a pragmatist.

Ishmael

That's exactly what I said. The Emancipation was pragmatic, even if at a higher level it was also the right and moral thing to do.

Why do you goons imagine that pragmatism and the right thing to do are always mutually exclusive? Watch much Tee Vee, do you?

Amicus earlier called the Bill of Rights and the Constitution "idealistic" as if to mean that the idea that all people having the inalienable right to be judge by their individual merit rather than class or group is just an abstraction. But that's not what the founding fathers were about. They wanted to create a pragmatic foundation for a Republic. Very pragmatic. Very morally right. The two combined are where we rise as a people to meet the challenges of our age.

 

[fair_warning]

Amicus is a reactionary fruitcake.

This reactionary fruitcake is a pretty nasty recipe.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Emancipation Proclamation freed nobody. In 1857 the Sopreme Court ruled that blacks were not citizens and had no rights under the Constitution. So, at the end of the Civil War blacks remained slaves because their legal status never changed, war or no war. If a President can snap his fingers and make you free, he can snap his fingers and make you anything. Recall that the Emancipation Proclamation freed no slaves in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware.

Lincoln reasoned it this way: If slaves are property the law gave him the authority to dispose of property however he wanted. In most cases Lincoln gave the army responsibility for slaves, and the army forced them to work.

In the South Union cavalry frequently slaughtered slaves who refused to leave their plantations. The army reasoned it like Lincoln: IF A SLAVE IS PROPERTY THE LAW GIVES THE ARMY AUTHORITY TO DESTROY ENEMY PROPERTY AND LIVESTOCK. General Grant generally hanged black rapists in full view of Southern soldiers.

Southern soldiers rarely took black prisoners.

The South wasnt too upset about the 13th Amendment that officially ended slavery. A woman in Florida said it for all: THANK GOD! NOW I ONLY HAVE TO FEED THE ONE'S WHO WORK! Children and geezers and cripples were a serious expense planters were no longer responsible for.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Taken together blacks are a huge drag on the American economy. Every statistic confirms it. Theyre largely self-destructive, and our liberals encourage it.

The danger for blacks is this: As the economic pie shrinks folks are gonna do the math homework and discover that a huge chunk of our tax money preserves a black subculture thats self destructive and antagonistic to the rest of the nation. The money's better spent on Hispanics, and once the Democrats conquer the Hispanics they'll cut blacks loose as good money thrown at bad.

 

[lustatopia]

Taken together blacks are a huge drag on the American economy. Every statistic confirms it. Theyre largely self-destructive, and our liberals encourage it.

Please move over into the reactionary racist fruitcake corner with Amicus, Busybody and his pals. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Please move over into the reactionary racist fruitcake corner with Amicus, Busybody and his pals. Thank you for your cooperation.

I suspect most Americans already think blacks are a luxury the nation can no longer afford. Its a reality polite folks dont wanna talk about but the meter keeps running. Time will tell if I'm right.

 

[lustatopia]

I suspect most Americans already think blacks are a luxury the nation can no longer afford. Its a reality polite folks dont wanna talk about but the meter keeps running. Time will tell if I'm right.

Well, maybe those Americans will just have to default on their Negros...the banks will have to repossess their Negros and sell them on at a loss to new owners.

Gosh, that must bust the shit out of your cotton-pickin' credit rating, though.

 

[Powertone]

Amicus,

Racism is the irrational discrimination of people based upon the colour of their skin. It always manifests itself on a personal level.

You have in the past rejected any attempt to pigeon hole your identity with generalisations about what people who believe what you believe are like. Yet now you claim that a statistical derived generalisation about a whole race is a moral justification for racism towards individuals?

Your hypocrisy reveals the weakness in your argument. Each and every human being commands the dignity to be judged on their own individual merits rather than those of someone's stereotype.

Don't even try to slip out with the "some one my best friends are black..." shit. ALL racism is racism because racism must manifest itself at the individual personal level.

Racism=hate. Justify that with statistics.

but only whites can be racist cuz they / we have all the power...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, maybe those Americans will just have to default on their Negros...the banks will have to repossess their Negros and sell them on at a loss to new owners.

Gosh, that must bust the shit out of your cotton-pickin' credit rating, though.

Youve already lost the debate cuz you cant face the reality of politics. I mean, America slaughted Indians till they got with the program. I'm pointing out how things pretty much remain the same.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Normally, when rational people are shown to have been mistaken they alter their opinions to accommodate reality. But no, you declare you'll vote for the worse President since at least Jimmy Carter.

Jimmy Carter was a better president than Ronald Reagan. In addition, he was a decent human being, while Reagan was a scoundrel who propagated the delusion that tax cuts generate more tax revenue than tax increases.

Despite the rise in the price of petroleum and the resulting inflation, for which he was not responsible, Carter paid down the national debt; Reagan nearly tripled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

There was more job creation per year under Jimmy Carter.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

Unemployment was higher under Reagan.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

 

[Powertone]

Jimmy Carter was a better president than Ronald Reagan. In addition, he was a decent human being, while Reagan was a scoundrel who propagated the delusion that tax cuts generate more tax revenue than tax increases.

Despite the rise in the price of petroleum and the resulting inflation, for which he was not responsible, Carter paid down the national debt; Reagan nearly tripled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

There was more job creation per year under Jimmy Carter.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

Unemployment was higher under Reagan.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

^ Democrats uber Alles !

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Racism is a slur against a person, but what if prejudice against a racial group is justified by statistics? If you read the documentation below, you will discover that Black Crime, Drug use, school drop outs, bastard children and prison time, tops the statistics in every field.

Now I know the bleeding hearts will blame slavery and poverty, and there is a case to be made for that, but an appreciable number of African Americans have overcome the past and are productive law abiding citizens. But still, those who commit crimes are mainly Black and Hispanic, which means....?

http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NHSDA/Ethnic/ethn1006.htm

http://archives.drugabuse.gov/STRC/Forms.html

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64





http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/



http://www.newcoalition.org/Article.cfm?artId=152



.
http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?...4&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=9R7Zf.iNVskHK8mQjqn7_g--

http://blackamericans.com/blogs/new...0-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx







http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html




http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d04/tables/dt04_107.asp

~~~

This, in spite of quotas for Blacks, affirmative action, lower entry standards for college, free housing, food stamps, ah, that is a category that slipped my mind...in other words all the social legislation, expensive social legislation to help African Americans, seems to have failed or even worsened the problems...

Amicus Veritas

Wait a minute. Now you're saying dropping out of school is a bad thing? In the other thread you're demanding that kids be let out of school. Now, when kids get out of school the first chance they get you're holding it against them?

You're not just racist, you're looney.

 

[iwpf]

Wow, i thought ignorance had gone the way of the dinosaur but, apparently, i'm wrong. Amicus, your original post is so off base it's laughable.

To those of you who think black and hispanic crime cost our country money let's talk about the white men who have driven this country into tremendous amounts of debt. You think Wall Street is run by blacks and hispanics? The Wall Street meltdown, costing our nation billions, was precipitated by white men. The junk bond debacle with Milken and Keating and gang was all white guys raping and pillaging everyone, particularly elderly people.

 

[The_Trouvere]

In fact, it took until the Clinton years before it was widely accepted that the perverse incentives inherent in our welfare system had destroyed the black family structure and led to increases in black social pathology.

The main reason for the the increase in black social pathology was the de industrialization of the United States that began during the 1970s. From the union movement of the mid 1930s to the recession of 1974 it became possible for men with double digit IQs to earn blue collar jobs with strong unions that provided decent wages and job benefits. The decline in blue collar jobs with strong unions impacted whites and blacks, but it did more damage to blacks, because the average black IQ is 85, while the average white IQ is 100.

The de industrialization of the United States, and the decline in the union movement reduced the positive incentives for morally responsible behavior. The expansion of the welfare system that happened with the War on Poverty reduced the disincentives for morally irresponsible behavior. Millions who could no longer achieve the good live in America opted for the easy life of welfare dependency. Nevertheless, the decline in good jobs that do not require superior intelligence must be considered also.

 

[cjh]

Wow, i thought ignorance had gone the way of the dinosaur but, apparently, i'm wrong. Amicus, your original post is so off base it's laughable.

To those of you who think black and hispanic crime cost our country money let's talk about the white men who have driven this country into tremendous amounts of debt. You think Wall Street is run by blacks and hispanics? The Wall Street meltdown, costing our nation billions, was precipitated by white men. The junk bond debacle with Milken and Keating and gang was all white guys raping and pillaging everyone, particularly elderly people.

don't forget madoff.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jimmy Carter was a better president than Ronald Reagan. In addition, he was a decent human being, while Reagan was a scoundrel who propagated the delusion that tax cuts generate more tax revenue than tax increases.

Despite the rise in the price of petroleum and the resulting inflation, for which he was not responsible, Carter paid down the national debt; Reagan nearly tripled it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

There was more job creation per year under Jimmy Carter.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

Unemployment was higher under Reagan.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

Carter really wasnt a decent guy. The memoirs of folks who worked with and for him reveal his basic pettiness, shabbiness, and pathology. Few are aware that he's alcoholic and blabbered under the influence.

Clinton was a decent guy, Bush41 was a decent guy, and Reagan was a decent guy. Dubya was a pitiful asshole behind the scenes. All of their wives were harridans amd shrews.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Carter really wasnt a decent guy. The memoirs of folks who worked with and for him reveal his basic pettiness, shabbiness, and pathology. Few are aware that he's alcoholic and blabbered under the influence.

Can you document any of those assertions?

 

[The_Trouvere]

don't forget madoff.

No one worries about blacks engaging in a computer related scheme to use post Einsteinian mathematics in order to defraud the Stock Market. The fear is that a huge black man of super human strength and sub human stupidity and brutality will hit one over the head with a club and steal his wallet.