Women of Lit: A Safe Place To Share

[Strixaluco]

These results don’t seem quite believable to me
Who conducted the research, and where, and with what methodology?

Finland, questionnaire research ordered from Dagmar insight. Randomised sample, between 18-79 years old men, and it has been weighted to correspond to the age structure of men in the country. (The report is in Finnish, and automatic translation from Finnish tends to be very poor.)

What seems unbelievable to you? I have to say this all corresponds to what I'm seeing around me, and to violence statistics. (The 1/3 of women is not from this research.)

 

[MiaBabe23]

Finland, questionnaire research ordered from Dagmar insight. Randomised sample, between 18-79 years old men, and it has been weighted to correspond to the age structure of men in the country. (The report is in Finnish, and automatic translation from Finnish tends to be very poor.)

What seems unbelievable to you? I have to say this all corresponds to what I'm seeing around me, and to violence statistics. (The 1/3 of women is not from this research.)

Thank you, I’ll have a look, maybe I can find a decent translation

I struggle to believe that a quarter of <35s think violence against women is acceptable, especially for such reasons
I admittedly know very little about Finland and Finnish society, but I struggle to believe it’s so different from any other democracy
Obviously there’s the awful influence of the likes of Tate and incels etc, but that on its own couldn’t explain such a deterioration in attitudes, only exacerbate it
Disturbing if accurate
And just reread about how many women have experienced ipv there, that’s very disturbing

 

[Strixaluco]

I struggle to believe that a quarter of <35s think violence against women is acceptable, especially for such reasons

Even this research shows there's the visible conflict of thinking both "violence is not acceptable" (90%) and yet blaming the victim when it happens (25% of young men, 20% of all men). And I see that not just in Finland, but in many other places as well.

 

[MiaBabe23]

Even this research shows there's the visible conflict of thinking both "violence is not acceptable" (90%) and yet blaming the victim when it happens (25% of young men, 20% of all men). And I see that not just in Finland, but in many other places as well.

Absolutely, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance is a thing, and can seem compounded by the way a question is asked
But Dagmar’s expertise is marketing/ brand building? Not been able to find the report as yet

Either way, it’s a stark reminder that there’s a lotta work that needs to be done to undo some really worrying mindsets and assumptions

 

[Strixaluco]

Absolutely, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance is a thing, and can seem compounded by the way a question is asked
But Dagmar’s expertise is marketing/ brand building? Not been able to find the report as yet

Either way, it’s a stark reminder that there’s a lotta work that needs to be done to undo some really worrying mindsets and assumptions

It seems they asked first about if a woman may have earned the violence, and only then if violence is justified, to get the cognitive dissonance visible.

The research was ordered by a cooperation organisation of women's organisations, which may have participated in formulating the questions. Their incentive is to find the background of violence, to be able to find ways to intervene.

 

[MiaBabe23]

It seems they asked first about if a woman may have earned the violence, and only then if violence is justified, to get the cognitive dissonance visible.

The research was ordered by a cooperation organisation of women's organisations, which may have participated in formulating the questions. Their incentive is to find the background of violence, to be able to find ways to intervene.

Hopefully maybe it might have prompted some thought in those who condoned it initially

Sounds really useful, hope they have the necessary impact

 

[JennyCapricorn]

Totally tangential but speaks to the anger… Some time back on the “did aging make sex more of a priority” thread I posted my experience on how turning 48 and menopause really hitting pushed my sex drive/bisexuality into overdrive. In the last week someone - profile not filled out but no profile pic and just initials and numbers for a name so odds are good a man - started asking me to drill into that for him since so many see their libido drop at that age/time

And my response was not “this is casual curiosity in a sex site” but “fuck you random man for asking me anything! How do you not know all women are different?! Why do you think you can question me you ignorant ass!?!” got so livid. And I don’t think this guy actually deserved the anger. Don’t know why he was posting that. I don’t know him at all. So I didnt respond there and I don’t intend to tear into him.

But the anger is so there. Just under the surface. I feel like a bag full of sharks.

 

[lil_jenni]

Totally tangential but speaks to the anger… Some time back on the “did aging make sex more of a priority” thread I posted my experience on how turning 48 and menopause really hitting pushed my sex drive/bisexuality into overdrive. In the last week someone - profile not filled out but no profile pic and just initials and numbers for a name so odds are good a man - started asking me to drill into that for him since so many see their libido drop at that age/time

And my response was not “this is casual curiosity in a sex site” but “fuck you random man for asking me anything! How do you not know all women are different?! Why do you think you can question me you ignorant ass!?!” got so livid. And I don’t think this guy actually deserved the anger. Don’t know why he was posting that. I don’t know him at all. So I didnt respond there and I don’t intend to tear into him.

But the anger is so there. Just under the surface. I feel like a bag full of sharks.

I'm not up to being angry. I may get there, but I have too much shit going on in my life to have the energy for anger right now. Having said that, I can feel it simmering, especially when I think about my girls growing up with bullshit like this.

On a different but related note, my sometimes FWB is a stripper in California. She said she left the club early last Tuesday night because the late crowd was getting rowdy and full of assholes. She didn't even go in on Wednesday, but heard that the bouncers had to eject several customers for touching or harassing dancers. She did work this weekend and said it was maybe a bit more alpha type assholes than normal, but not as bad as she heard Wednesday was.

She's seriously considering quitting and going back to finish her last year of college. She asked my Hubby if being an ex stripper would be a problem if she wanted to go to law school and become a lawyer, and he assured her it would not. So she thinks she's going to do it. She is pissed off and fierce as fuck, so the misogynistic fucks better watch out when she does become a lawyer.

 

[Zrosey]

She is pissed off and fierce as fuck, so the misogynistic fucks better watch out when she does become a lawyer.

She sounds just like the type of person needed in that position! Able to channel her anger into putting the hurt on these fascists

 

[stickygirl]

Apologies for a slight digression to kids, but as this article states 'Once you see it you can't unsee it' with respect to kid's clothes. I'd add 'You get what you wish for!'
Predator vs Prey

ETA to save viewing the link, it points out that boys clothes feature T-Rex, sharks and wolves, where girls have rabbits and kittens. So predator vs prey.

 

[Strixaluco]

Apologies for a slight digression to kids, but as this article states 'Once you see it you can't unsee it' with respect to kid's clothes. I'd add 'You get what you wish for!'
Predator vs Prey

Totally in line with how boys are encouraged to become strong and powerful, girls are assumed to be cute and pretty.

 

[stickygirl]

Not just in the US
This video from East Germany popped up, bemoaning the loss of women in the region. I found it all interesting but the topic of political radicalisation is raised at 3:20. Seems like it's worldwide and Margaret Atwood is a prophet... like we didn't know already.

 

[Zrosey]

Not just in the US
This video from East Germany popped up, bemoaning the loss of women in the region. I found it all interesting but the topic of political radicalisation is raised at 3:20. Seems like it's worldwide and Margaret Atwood is a prophet... like we didn't know already.

Sadly you might be on to something...I have a Canadian friend I check in with often and she is concerned about a potential right wing shift in their politics also.

I'd love to understand why this is happening. Of course many have raised this question and here in the states the answer often is given as economic reasons. If the numbers are compared here in the states we are doing better with Biden Harris admin.
But the prolific right wing mis-information that gets passed as news, Fox news and others, maintains things were better under the previous orange dictator admin.
This doesn't account for other countries authoritarian shifts tho.

 

[Desiree_Radcliffe]

Just got a message from a person who asked me what my orgasms are like and insisted oral sex is a lot to try to understand. I asked him what he was talking about, though I think he was alluding to a comment I made about not liking to receive oral sex. No, internet man, you are not going to change my mind by shaming me through critiques of the quality of my orgasms.

I give all my orgasm to me and I am damned good at it. You're not helping here.

 

[stickygirl]

Just got a message from a person who asked me what my orgasms are like and insisted oral sex is a lot to try to understand. I asked him what he was talking about, though I think he was alluding to a comment I made about not liking to receive oral sex. No, internet man, you are not going to change my mind by shaming me through critiques of the quality of my orgasms.

I give all my orgasm to me and I am damned good at it. You're not helping here.

Maybe he could cure you? It works for lesbians all the time...

 

[Strixaluco]

This doesn't account for other countries authoritarian shifts tho.

It indeed doesn't.

The social media and celebrities affect, though. And we have our own misinformation, some undoubtedly funded and guided from abroad. Perhaps even from 2 directions - some western, some Russian.

 

[Desiree_Radcliffe]

Maybe he could cure you? It works for lesbians all the time...

Right?


My mind was blown. The condescension there, and the idea that I, the owner of my own body, did not know how best to make use of it...and furthermore, he, a person with not even the same plumbing, knows better about my body than me. The audacity.

It's just an exaggerated way of seeing how the world works in terms of gender politics.

 

[stickygirl]

Right?


My mind was blown. The condescension there, and the idea that I, the owner of my own body, did not know how best to make use of it...and furthermore, he, a person with not even the same plumbing, knows better about my body than me. The audacity.

It's just an exaggerated way of seeing how the world works in terms of gender politics.

Maybe we have take some responsibility though?

 

[Strixaluco]

My mind was blown. The condescension there, and the idea that I, the owner of my own body, did not know how best to make use of it...and furthermore, he, a person with not even the same plumbing, knows better about my body than me. The audacity.

It's just an exaggerated way of seeing how the world works in terms of gender politics.

Exaggerated version of mansplaining.

 

[Strixaluco]

Sigh. I'm starting to suspect, that every time a man complains about all the men being bashed when a violent minority is discussed, he's actually identifying with that minority, and doesn't realise he's in the minority, despite believing himself to be a part of the majority.

(edit. Spurred this time by a fb discussion in my native language.)

 

[Desiree_Radcliffe]

Maybe we have take some responsibility though?

This woman is not wrong at all. My mother was entirely emotionally unavailable. There was no way to earn her love, and the fact that my sister and I thought that we had to speaks volumes. If we were boys, would it have been different? You have me thinking....

 

[Desiree_Radcliffe]

Sigh. I'm starting to suspect, that every time a man complains about all the men being bashed when a violent minority is discussed, he's actually identifying with that minority, and doesn't realise he's in the minority, despite believing himself to be a part of the majority.

(edit. Spurred this time by a fb discussion in my native language.)

I'd be willing to listen to the context of this, if you'd like to share or vent.

 

[Desiree_Radcliffe]

Sadly you might be on to something...I have a Canadian friend I check in with often and she is concerned about a potential right wing shift in their politics also.

I'd love to understand why this is happening. Of course many have raised this question and here in the states the answer often is given as economic reasons. If the numbers are compared here in the states we are doing better with Biden Harris admin.
But the prolific right wing mis-information that gets passed as news, Fox news and others, maintains things were better under the previous orange dictator admin.
This doesn't account for other countries authoritarian shifts tho.

It's complicated, but a lot of it has to do with education (and lack thereof). We've created a complacent populace because we've created an ignorant populace by fucking with the education system itself. This is a thing from the top, not from the bottom.

People who aren't educated about facts listen to people who sound good or trustworthy. And they also don't have as much of a voice or the tools to question things. Critical thinking is a skill that we are not born with.

So yeah, you have those working class supporters of the right...but you also have a lot of minority groups who don't know how to speak because they were never given the tools.

It's a clusterfuck.

 

[Strixaluco]

It's complicated, but a lot of it has to do with education (and lack thereof). We've created a complacent populace because we've created an ignorant populace by fucking with the education system itself. This is a thing from the top, not from the bottom.

People who aren't educated about facts listen to people who sound good or trustworthy. And they also don't have as much of a voice or the tools to question things. Critical thinking is a skill that we are not born with.

So yeah, you have those working class supporters of the right...but you also have a lot of minority groups who don't know how to speak because they were never given the tools.

It's a clusterfuck.

But it happens even in countries that have not fucked with the education system.

Many people rather believe populists than education, because they want to believe things are simple and understandable, complexity of the world scares them. Populists seem to have taken the place of superstition.

No wonder they can't understand autistic people who see systems, patterns, complexity...

 

[Strixaluco]

I'd be willing to listen to the context of this, if you'd like to share or vent.

It's just something I think of every time there's public discussion about gender based violence etc. There are always those who think all men are being bashed even when discussing a portion.