Would you be ok with this?

[EmeraldKitten]

I'd be fine with it- just for the fact that I'd consider myself bisexual.
My mom is a hairdresser also, and so I've been around gay guys all my life.
She pretty much taught me that it was okay to be gay! Yay! Let's get a parade goin!

But, my senior year of highschool, my best friend told me she was a lesbian.
Me, being the groovy person I am, didn't give a rats ass. lol. Now, me, being the kid that told her mom evvverything, informed my mother, and she flipped out. After that, she cringed every time I said that my friend was going to stay the night.
Mom and I got into numerous fights, that ended up with me in tears and with her pissed off.
Finally, I said, "Okay, what would you do if I came home one day and said 'Hey mom, I'm a great big dyke?'"
She said that she'd take all my pictures off the walls and refuse to speak to me.
(This from the woman that calls me her curly haired angel sent straight from Heaven.)
I got up and left.
When I got home, she did say she'd do that, but she'd get over it, and put my pictures back up.
But, because of that conversation, I'll never tell her that I've had lesbian encounters.

Anyways, I ramble a lot, lol. I say, as far as my kids go, the only thing I'd worry about if they would end up being gay- is all the bullshit they'd have to deal with. The discrimination and gay-bashing and just the shitty ass treatment that comes with the lifestyle.

~K

Good topic. Nice and thought-provoking, lol.

 

[McKenna]

About twelve years ago my sister "came out" to me, and me alone. I was the first person she ever told outside her partner and other lesbian friends.

Twelve years ago, I thought she was a terrible sinner destined for hell.

I've come a long, long way in the past twelve years. Actually, I came a long way in the first two or three years after she came out. I have to explain that I was raised on the stricter side of religious fanaticism; homosexuality was strictly forbidden, as was about anything related to sex or vice, including coffee, tea, alcohol, pre-marital sex, ...and the list continues.

At the time my sister told me she was a lesbian, I was attending a church-run college. I was very into my religion and the way of life it prescribed. I was also, however, very close to my sister and loved her dearly.

At first I accepted it on the level of "she's my sister, I love her, I just don't like the choices she's made." At that time I thought her homosexuality was a choice, a perversion.

Over the years I've become a lot more tolerable and a lot less "religious." I couldn't make sense of a judgmental God, among other things. I learned my sister was happy with her sexuality -and I also witnessed how she tried to be hetero and was miserable. I'd rather have her happy and sane than hetero and seriously fucked up.

I accept who she is now, kit and kaboodle, and I love her dearly, no restraints.

If my son or daughter (I don't have kids, so hypothetically,) "came out" to me, I'd be ok with it, simply because I've lived through it once with my sister. I was the one who had to change my perspective and learn a little something about tolerance and unconditional love. I think that lesson was invaluable.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I think I'd end up being alright with it, but I'm very controlling... so if it were my son telling me "I think I'm gay" or "I'm gay", I'd probably highly encourage him to still be a manly-man.

I'd want him to be not-the-prototypical-little-skinny-effeminant-gay-guy. Football. Tall, proud, masculine. Etc.

'Course, I don't know how I'd react if he simply wasn't into being that guy. No moreso than I'd know how I'd react if it were a girl who wanted to be particularly "non-feminine". I am, regrettably, old fashioned.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . I'd want him to be not-the-prototypical-little-skinny-effeminant-gay-guy. Football. Tall, proud, masculine. Etc...

But , Joe, that IS the new stereotypical gay guy.

 

[minsue]

But , Joe, that IS the new stereotypical gay guy.

Damn, you beat me to it.



I have no intention of ever having kids, but I simply cannot imagine feeling any differently based on the sex of the person they love. The rest of my family, though, would be a bit difficult.

The first thing that popped into my head reading this thread was when I was a teenager watching TV with my friend and my father and having him ask to speak to me in the other room. He was disturbed by the way my friend "kept touching me" and how her hands were "always on me" and wanted to be sure I wasn't uncomfortable because he'd be glad to step in and tell her to stop if I was. I was laying on the couch with my legs in my friend's lap. Where the hell did he expect her hands to be?

That was the day I decided I'd made the right decision in not saying a thing about my own attraction to women. It'd be different now, but as a kid his reaction to a simple friendly touch shocked the hell out of me and, to be honest, frightened me a bit.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Virtual_Burlesque
But , Joe, that IS the new stereotypical gay guy.

Not in my neck of the woods.

 

[Belegon]

Maybe this needs a thread of it's own, but I am wondering just how under-reported physical abuse by the female partner is. The reason is because here we have stories from 3 or 4 people already and guess what? I'm number 5.

I was in a relationship in the late 80's that was physically abusive on her part. And I am not exactly a small guy or non-violent or any of that.

She took advantage of the fact that I had been raised in such a manner that I would not hit her back under any circumstances.

It happens. A lot. I still think it is probably less common than the traditional view of an abusive relationship. But it is also a very real problem.

 

[cantdog]

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.038.gif

I have had both experiences. My daughter's pretty darn opportunist, although she insists on human partners, so far. She's the same person she has been all along. Labels are nothing to get excited over.

And a very close friend is chuggin hormones to bring about a match between her body and her perceived gender identity. Her parents (who had named him Matthew when he was born) were incredibly level-headed about it, and I am fascinated and happy to see her blooming like she is after the disaster of the marriage. It's a risk and a leap. I worry sometimes. But she's still a close friend, and I don't go halfway about my friends.

Love is the important thing.

cantdog

 

[Pure]

SF: //How many women come home drunk and beat up their husbands? //

Another interesting question is how many women come home drunk and beat up their lovers (possibly female). Answer: Female to female violence, abuse in lesbian relationships is not unknown, just seldom mentioned until the last few years.

 

[minsue]

Maybe this needs a thread of it's own, but I am wondering just how under-reported physical abuse by the female partner is. The reason is because here we have stories from 3 or 4 people already and guess what? I'm number 5.

I was in a relationship in the late 80's that was physically abusive on her part. And I am not exactly a small guy or non-violent or any of that.

She took advantage of the fact that I had been raised in such a manner that I would not hit her back under any circumstances.

It happens. A lot. I still think it is probably less common than the traditional view of an abusive relationship. But it is also a very real problem.

I think it's probably even more underreported than male abuse of a female. How much more is impossible to know. Both are grossly underreported.

 

[minsue]

SF: //How many women come home drunk and beat up their husbands? //

Another interesting question is how many women come home drunk and beat up their lovers (possibly female). Answer: Female to female violence, abuse in lesbian relationships is not unknown, just seldom mentioned until the last few years.

Sadly, it's only recently that reporting abuse in a lesbian relationship stopped being an open invitation for even more abuse.

 

[Party Girl]

I think it's probably even more underreported than male abuse of a female. How much more is impossible to know. Both are grossly underreported.

Indeed. And what makes it even more sad yet is that the absolute vast MAJORITY of cases of domestic abuse are never reported ... be they perpetrated by a male OR a female.

 

[cantdog]

Impossible to know, but we all have our prejudices to help us decide what really is the most common.

Psychological abuse, physical abuse-- power is a drug. Humans want it. It's part of our flawed nature. We do have the potential to rise above. Once you have developed, spiritually, you become less capable of that sort of violence, but so few do.

Even the arch-Likudnik seems to have matured into a new understanding, if you've been following the news from Israel/Palestine lately. His rank-and-file Likud members are just livid about his program, which seems to imply that the Palestinian has a right to live.

But I see it as a ray of hope that anyone can see things in a new light. Good for him, you know? But at the same time, what a pity we had to put up with the un-evolved version for so long, at the cost of so much misery. And there are still many thousands who still can hate, always and everywhere, and who hear the call of power.

I guess this thread is about two different subjects, mixed.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Personally I'm hoping for a gay or lesbian child whenever I do have children. I don't know why I hope this. Perhaps it's my belief that I can be sympathetic with them or my belief that a child who is not of the norm is less likely to grow up a fuckwit. Or maybe it's a hope that I can add the P to my PFLAG credentials. Who knows? It's probably just because I'm a freak of nature.

Regardless of how they turn out, I will likely teach any daughters softball and any sons cooking. And all of the above how to read and enjoy reading. Well-rounded individuals are always good.

My parents would probably be okay with a homosexual grandchild now that they have lesbian friends of their own.

The other half will have to wait till I have kids.



Domestic violence. I'm against it. I don't often see women use violence as a subjugation ploy like abusive men do, but that's just me, reality may differ.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

So, what do the rest of you, especially those with kids think? I suspect that most of the crowd here, being pretty liberal, would be ok with it. But what about your significant other? And your family?

Comments?

If my daughter comes home and tells me she's a lesbian, I'll look at my woman and wonder how the hell that happened. Appalled, of course, and angry as hell. *snicker*

I'm fine with it (obviously) and recently found out that several of my family members are fine with it. Worry for the judgment and criticism I may face seems to be their main concern, but my happiness wins out with them and that's very comforting to know.

I have a large family so it will take a while, and I'm hopeful that everyone will find a way to accept it. However, I am realistic and know this is not likely. I don't see the sense in disowning someone for being who they are, but I'd be just as selfish as them if I set up ultimatums or demands on their feelings. I haven't heard many good reasons NOT to be okay with it, where the opinionated isn't totally absorbed in their own needs.

This leads me to a query for Joe: Is it always all about you? Your post leads me to believe that your image/comfort level would come before your son/daughter's happiness and overall well-being. Old-fashioned is all fine and good until you break the most old-fashioned thing of all, the bond of family.

My biggest concern is that my kids will be judged on the basis of MY orientation. Mean People Suck! Of course, I never let them get me down and I have a feeling my kids won't either.

One small aside, but I feel it's pertinent. The first time I held my daughter in my arms, I knew there would NEVER be a day that she'd have to beg acceptance from me. It's called unconditional love.



~lucky

 

[Svenskaflicka]

One of my sons is bi, the other seems straight so far (they're 25 and 29). I and my family and friends would not have given it special thought if either or both were gay.

Perdita

How cute! For some reason, I find it ADORABLE to see two guys together.

 

[Weird Harold]

Maybe this needs a thread of it's own, but I am wondering just how under-reported physical abuse by the female partner is. The reason is because here we have stories from 3 or 4 people already and guess what? I'm number 5.

If you're number five, then I'm probably numbes six and seven -- I've lived with TWO women who periodically indulged in violent fits of rage -- one of them I actually paid to live with me for six months in spite of the fact that she tried to kill me five times (making up after the fights was a LOT of fun.)

Onthe maintopic of this thread, I raised both daughters to make their own decisions. If they choose to be lesbians, bisexual, or poly-amorous, that's their decision and I don't have a problem with it as long as they're happy with their life-style choices.

PS: I have more trouble accepting that one of my daughters is a <gsp> <shudder> Karaoke Singer than I do with whoever she might be sleping with.

 

[cantdog]

Good for you, Weird! The transsexual I spoke of sweated bullets before she told anyone, and in every case she was agreeably surprised. Love is love.

You have to be taught whom to hate, I think. Hate breeds more hate. And hate is in essence fear. They don't call it homophobia because it is a matter of righteous wrath, but because it is an irrational fear.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I have to admit, that if she told me as a young teen-especially if she said she was bi- I would have to wonder if this was some new thing she was doing because she thought it was cool or in or some way to attract guys.

On the other hand if she told me she was completly gay, I would 1) breath a sigh of relief that she probably *wouldn't* repeat mom's actions and get pregnant at 17 and 2) start lobying on behalf of gay adoption.

IF it where my son, pretty much the same (except her already told me he wanted to be the uncle and not the dad, cause dads have to do the work)

I would tell them both that I loved them and accepted them and that I wished them hapiness.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I have to admit, that if she told me as a young teen-especially if she said she was bi- I would have to wonder if this was some new thing she was doing because she thought it was cool or in or some way to attract guys.

On the other hand if she told me she was completly gay, I would 1) breath a sigh of relief that she probably *wouldn't* repeat mom's actions and get pregnant at 17 and 2) start lobying on behalf of gay adoption.

IF it where my son, pretty much the same (except her already told me he wanted to be the uncle and not the dad, cause dads have to do the work)

I would tell them both that I loved them and accepted them and that I wished them hapiness.

How old is he? And where did he learn that dads do all the work?
Hopefully, he'll grow up to WANT to do atleast 50% of the work before he has any kids of his own.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

One of the only things that would give me pause about my daughters being lesbian is how society would treat them. I almost hope that they would hold off on a public comming out until they were out of highschool. Not because I care what the other people in town think but because kids of that age can be so cruel.

I think that college life is more accepting other peoples beliefs/races/orientations/etc. but that may only be perception. There is certianly enough hate in the world to go around and no one area or group has a monopoly on it.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I think that college life is more accepting other peoples beliefs/races/orientations/etc. but that may only be perception.

Try attending a Baptist College.

Acceptance shmeptance.

~lucky

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Being hetero isn't all that much easier if you're dating someone of another race than your own.

2004...AD!!!

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Being hetero isn't all that much easier if you're dating someone of another race than your own.

2004...AD!!!

No it's not.

~lucky

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Try attending a Baptist College.

Acceptance shmeptance.

~lucky

OK, you got a point there. Religous Colleges are probablly the least accepting of anyone. 'Love thy neighbor, as long as he's just like you.'

But what I really meant was that overall, the college environment is probablly more accepting than highschool.

But again, that's just my opinion, I could be way off base.