You can't? Fuck you!

[Netzach]

I guess I have far less problem with prescribed limits. I really don't care if I've gotten you past thinking there's something you can't do - whatever sandbox you DO want to play in, though, will be played to its dirtiest.

I really don't have an issue with an earnest reservation or problem, but this is largely because I pick people who are closely on the same mission to do that with. Also I have a slave in H, the sense of self-abasement and love of the absurd is mutual, so I'm probably a lot easier on my SO in that regard than a lot of the folks here.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm intrigued by the planning. I really can't imagine -- and of course, I always forget how much men think about sex, on average -- thinking to myself ok, I want my partner to get to x, and I will lead him/her there by requesting first this, and then this, etc. Are we talking a new sexual position? Or some mental feat?

What is the God speaking to Abraham stuff, Marquis?

Is it purely for your enjoyment? Some sort of spiritual or intellectual growth you think she needs?

Maybe it just boils down to how much management a PYL wants to do.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Im always intriqued by how Sir takes me to the places he does.. I dont ever tell him no... I always show him the respect he deserves and attempt what he would like... His Motto has always been with me, Where do you want to go? Tell me where you want to go , and let me decide how your going to get there... He tells me none of our encounters are ever planned.. He just lives for the moment.. .thats one of the many things I love about him..

 

[JMohegan]

I'm intrigued by the planning. I really can't imagine -- and of course, I always forget how much men think about sex, on average -- thinking to myself ok, I want my partner to get to x, and I will lead him/her there by requesting first this, and then this, etc. Are we talking a new sexual position? Or some mental feat?

No, no, no. "X" is specific to an individual, and not something I know until I get to know the individual herself. And of course it shifts and stretches as time goes on.

Netzach hates ice and gets all girly-squeamish about small rodents. You're the same way about bugs. Just hearing about that type of thing makes my inner sadist sit up and take notice! So many possibilities - some planned, others impromptu, to press the buttons associated with those types of fears and aversions.

And then there's checklist type of stuff. Ever notice how often new subs are instructed to fill one out, declaring what they will & won't do? I really hate those things, which I consider to be as sexy as tax returns, contradictory to my role as the one in charge, and insulting to my interpersonal judgment to boot.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i luv to say "i can't" simultaneously while trying to do whatever it is that "i can't" do. i like getting punished for saying it and sometimes i even enjoy looking a little silly or stupid if it makes him happy. i need to complain and whine a little to make sure he is who he says he is to me and i enjoy finding out each and every time. As soon as someone starts taking me too seriously and stops pressing, the "i can't"'s only increase rather than decrease in frequency. The more consistently "i can't" is not accepted the less it is heard.

 

[JMohegan]

I guess I have far less problem with prescribed limits. I really don't care if I've gotten you past thinking there's something you can't do - whatever sandbox you DO want to play in, though, will be played to its dirtiest.

We've had this conversation before, I think.

If I take her there, it's infinitely sweeter than if she just shows up. This is really all about control for me.

 

[Netzach]

No, no, no. "X" is specific to an individual, and not something I know until I get to know the individual herself. And of course it shifts and stretches as time goes on.

Netzach hates ice and gets all girly-squeamish about small rodents. You're the same way about bugs. Just hearing about that type of thing makes my inner sadist sit up and take notice! So many possibilities - some planned, others impromptu, to press the buttons associated with those types of fears and aversions.

And then there's checklist type of stuff. Ever notice how often new subs are instructed to fill one out, declaring what they will & won't do? I really hate those things, which I consider to be as sexy as tax returns, contradictory to my role as the one in charge, and insulting to my interpersonal judgment to boot.

I find checklists really interesting, because I can spin the interests in so many directions. Liking something and liking it in some utterly new bizzare and unplanned way are two different things. But like you, what I want does depend so much on the quirks and personality of the person I'm looking at. It's all a part of paying attention.

I know the power of my own aversion, I know that making me empty a mousetrap for my own good will literally erode the relationship if if were with God himself incarnate.

There is a point, I'm saying where a D can end up going "whoops, shit, I broke it" and NOT get to brush it off and feel like you're cool and they're just stupid. I laud those of you who are willing to take that kind of risk with your primary partnership - I can't see it happening here. If I'm hearing a real, scared, hell no from M, I need to listen to it and figure out what's up.

 

[Netzach]

i luv to say "i can't" simultaneously while trying to do whatever it is that "i can't" do. i like getting punished for saying it and sometimes i even enjoy looking a little silly or stupid if it makes him happy. i need to complain and whine a little to make sure he is who he says he is to me and i enjoy finding out each and every time. As soon as someone starts taking me too seriously and stops pressing, the "i can't"'s only increase rather than decrease in frequency. The more consistently "i can't" is not accepted the less it is heard.

That's my husband's MO to a degree. No and then yes seems to be a big happy thing for him, in really silly little ways. It's fine by me.

 

[Homburg]

I know the power of my own aversion, I know that making me empty a mousetrap for my own good will literally erode the relationship if if were with God himself incarnate.

There is a point, I'm saying where a D can end up going "whoops, shit, I broke it" and NOT get to brush it off and feel like you're cool and they're just stupid.

This is my take on it as well. If I know that someone is fiercely and utterly afraid of something, it is not a good thing to fuck with that fear. Nor is it my job to "help her move past it", as this is usually just an excuse to fuck with the fear.

Moving past minor fears is cool, don't get me wrong, but I'm just not going to put a claustrophobic in a coffin. Not my style.

 

[JMohegan]

I know the power of my own aversion, I know that making me empty a mousetrap for my own good will literally erode the relationship if if were with God himself incarnate.

For god's sake, woman! There *is* such a thing as subtlety!

But this really gets to the heart of it. Figuring out a way to push those buttons, without driving a partner away (or making her batshit crazy) is a challenge I really enjoy.

 

[intothewoods]

No, no, no. "X" is specific to an individual, and not something I know until I get to know the individual herself. And of course it shifts and stretches as time goes on.

Netzach hates ice and gets all girly-squeamish about small rodents. You're the same way about bugs. Just hearing about that type of thing makes my inner sadist sit up and take notice! So many possibilities - some planned, others impromptu, to press the buttons associated with those types of fears and aversions.

And then there's checklist type of stuff. Ever notice how often new subs are instructed to fill one out, declaring what they will & won't do? I really hate those things, which I consider to be as sexy as tax returns, contradictory to my role as the one in charge, and insulting to my interpersonal judgment to boot.

I hate the checklists!

There's a difference between satisfying your sadistic urge because it's fun or you want to, and, in your example, forcing me to touch a spider because you think it would be good for me. The latter is really the head space that confounds me, come to think of it.

And I have to remember not to keep that spider thing on the d.l.

 

[Netzach]

For god's sake, woman! There *is* such a thing as subtlety!

But this really gets to the heart of it. Figuring out a way to push those buttons, without driving a partner away (or making her batshit crazy) is a challenge I really enjoy.

True. If someone wanted to make it the project for 08-09, well, I laud their rodent fetish then.

I've used this analogy before too, I like to make my toast in a toaster and use a cross-cut saw for my cross cutting.

And most of why I like checklists is because I get in ruts and looking at giant lists makes me go aha and make connections. It's a lateral-thinking thing for me, not a "you can do X or Y this hard" manual.

 

[Marquis]

I'm intrigued by the planning. I really can't imagine -- and of course, I always forget how much men think about sex, on average -- thinking to myself ok, I want my partner to get to x, and I will lead him/her there by requesting first this, and then this, etc. Are we talking a new sexual position? Or some mental feat?

What is the God speaking to Abraham stuff, Marquis?

I'm glad you asked. I'm feeling loquacious today, so you'll pardon me if I start "navel gazing" again. Hopefully I'll still be able to say something worthwhile, re: the sig line, it has never changed.

A little bit of background on me. I am a really intense person. Intensely horny, intensely emotional, intensely.... everything. I'm not a low key person. When I walk into a room, I take it over or I leave.

When I'm feeling intense feelings, I want other people to feel intense feelings too. Otherwise, I feel like I have not communicated myself sincerely, I feel stifled.

It can indeed be something as simple as a new sexual position. Maybe one that my sub feels is uncomfortable or embarrassing. Whatever the case, she doesn't want to do it, and is hoping I will just drop it.

I will not drop it. I will make a HUGE issue out of it. Because I really care that much about the position? No, because I want to share my energy and connect with her on that level.

I start a lot of fights for no reason. I come home feeling intense, and I know I want to provoke a strong reaction. She needs to cry, laugh, whatever, loudly, for me to feel satisfied. Usually, I am able to bring them back, so that the ride, while..... intense (I can't think of another word) is sort of an alls well that ends well sort of thing.

OK, enough generalization. Although many of these "scenes" do not involve much or any planning, here is an example that was highly premeditated:

A few weeks ago, my girls and I went to a BDSM conference with national presenters, held by people in our local scene.

In any case, I took a class on knife play and got along really well with the presenter, who was a short Indian man from Oklahoma who spoke about his love of knives with a passion that really infected me.

That night, as we were returning to the conference hotel, I stopped at a 7-11 and bought a bag of ice, which I put into a styrofoam cooler that I had brought from home. My girls had no idea what was going on.

When we got to the dungeon, I took lo to the blood play area and had her strip. Then I went up to the Master I spoke to earlier, and asked if he would care to help me in a mindfuck.

I explained to him that my subs basically know that I'm crazy and capable of doing anything. Still, if my sub was going to believe that I intended on cutting her nipple off, having a surgeon on hand promising to sew it back on would add some credibility to the threat. I told him his lines and he agreed gladly.

We walked closer to the horse lo was perched on and began discussing how we were going to do this, cut her nipple off safely, that is. Naturally, she began freaking out. Like, really freaking out. It drew a considerable crowd.

I assured her that this guy was a pro and he promised that he had reattached dozens of nipples. In any case, if there were any complications we would simply put the nip in a ziploc, throw it in the ice and head to the nearest hospice.

C, meanwhile, was chained to a cross with a blindfold on and ear plugs in. lo was cut off from all help, and shaking like a leaf, a look in her eye that swore a debt that could never be repaid, she allowed me to calm her down enough to get her back on the horse and in position.

I laid out my medical equipment, bandages, etc. True to our plan, the good doctor advised I begin by piercing her nipple, so I have something holding it in place to cut from. I order her to keep her eyes closed, and I pierced her nipple with a .25 gauge hypo tip, the kind that are often used in needle play.

Then I brought out a scalpel and made a few practice cuts on her areola. By this time, she is sobbing like I just drowned her poppy in the kitchen sink. I am squeezing her tit, milking it of blood. I tell her to open her eyes.

I have put some vanilla ice cream into a crystal bowl, all of which I had kept in the cooler. the blood is dripping onto the vanilla ice cream... like... a red sauce. I look her right in the eye as I put the first spoonful in my mouth. We spent the next few minutes feeding each other bloody vanilla ice cream until I knew everything was ok. I let her finish off the bowl while I unchained C for her scene.

Is it purely for your enjoyment? Some sort of spiritual or intellectual growth you think she needs?

It is purely for my enjoyment.

Maybe it just boils down to how much management a PYL wants to do.

This is a big part of it for me. I'm not a fucking life coach. I think I'm a pretty good boyfriend and I try to be there for my girls as much as I can, but I'm not interested in taking over all the responsibility in someones life. They are both strong, mature women with their own interests that they need to have the freedom to develop independently. I am there to support them in anything they want to do, but ultimately what they want to do is largely up to them.

As long as my needs are met, I could really give less of a fuck.

I do take a more management role when it comes to decisions that affect us as a family or initiatives that I feel are important for us to move forward on. Unfortunately, they are so independent that they fight me tooth and nail if I so much as want to switch the family cell phone plan. Small price to pay for having enough free time to pursue my own interests and not having to baby incompetent and highly codependent individuals.

 

[JMohegan]

This is my take on it as well. If I know that someone is fiercely and utterly afraid of something, it is not a good thing to fuck with that fear. Nor is it my job to "help her move past it", as this is usually just an excuse to fuck with the fear.

Moving past minor fears is cool, don't get me wrong, but I'm just not going to put a claustrophobic in a coffin. Not my style.

Referencing your post 31, Homburg, what sort of "bloody difficult and complex tasks" do you assign? What sort of "goals that are exceedingly difficult" do you set?

 

[JMohegan]

There's a difference between satisfying your sadistic urge because it's fun or you want to, and, in your example, forcing me to touch a spider because you think it would be good for me. The latter is really the head space that confounds me, come to think of it.

The latter is not part of my role in a relationship. I'm not the dad, I'm the sadist!

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>
I have put some vanilla ice cream into a crystal bowl, all of which I had kept in the cooler. the blood is dripping onto the vanilla ice cream... like... a red sauce. I look her right in the eye as I put the first spoonful in my mouth. We spent the next few minutes feeding each other bloody vanilla ice cream until I knew everything was ok. I let her finish off the bowl while I unchained C for her scene.

That is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

 

[Marquis]

i luv to say "i can't" simultaneously while trying to do whatever it is that "i can't" do. i like getting punished for saying it and sometimes i even enjoy looking a little silly or stupid if it makes him happy. i need to complain and whine a little to make sure he is who he says he is to me and i enjoy finding out each and every time. As soon as someone starts taking me too seriously and stops pressing, the "i can't"'s only increase rather than decrease in frequency. The more consistently "i can't" is not accepted the less it is heard.

I like this.

 

[Marquis]

That is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

I'm fucking full of them.

 

[intothewoods]

The latter is not part of my role in a relationship. I'm not the dad, I'm the sadist!

Unless she had a fear of leather daddies.

 

[madetotakeit]

That is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

It reminded me of the castration scene but of course taken about three steps further. I can honestly say I would have freaked out long before the scalpel came out.

 

[intothewoods]

This is a big part of it for me. I'm not a fucking life coach. I think I'm a pretty good boyfriend and I try to be there for my girls as much as I can, but I'm not interested in taking over all the responsibility in someones life. They are both strong, mature women with their own interests that they need to have the freedom to develop independently. I am there to support them in anything they want to do, but ultimately what they want to do is largely up to them.

As long as my needs are met, I could really give less of a fuck.

I do take a more management role when it comes to decisions that affect us as a family or initiatives that I feel are important for us to move forward on. Unfortunately, they are so independent that they fight me tooth and nail if I so much as want to switch the family cell phone plan. Small price to pay for having enough free time to pursue my own interests and not having to baby incompetent and highly codependent individuals.

I'm kind of bitching about this lately, but I do think a healthy bdsm arrangement is not usually PYL acting as life coach, replacement for a father or God, rather two people mutually satisfying each other's needs. Same as any successful vanilla relationship, but the needs are much different. That seems to get lost so often.

 

[madetotakeit]

I'm kind of bitching about this lately, but I do think a healthy bdsm arrangement is not usually PYL acting as life coach, replacement for a father or God, rather two people mutually satisfying each other's needs. Same as any successful vanilla relationship, but the needs are much different. That seems to get lost so often.

Agreed, letting it be what it is should be enough. While the roles are not equal in power it is still above all else a partnership. Nobody should be looking to be fixed or trying to fix another. IMO

 

[Marquis]

I'm kind of bitching about this lately, but I do think a healthy bdsm arrangement is not usually PYL acting as life coach, replacement for a father or God, rather two people mutually satisfying each other's needs. Same as any successful vanilla relationship, but the needs are much different. That seems to get lost so often.

I think it gets lost because the line between "the game" and reality gets easily blurred, as it should be.

My girls call me Daddy and in many ways I play that role with them. At the end of the day, I do have a relationship with both of their real fathers, and I have spoken to both of those men about issues I considered to be worth bringing to their attention, and beyond my rights/expertise.

Here is a quick and dirty test to keep you from getting "lost".

1. Do you care if what's happening is "real" or part of the romance/seduction/game of it all? Is this an issue/instance in which that distinction is critical?

2. Do you know if what's happening is "real" or part of the romance/seduction/game?

If your answers are no and yes, no and no or yes and yes; stop worrying and have fun.

If your answers are yes and no, time to take call timeout.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm kind of bitching about this lately, but I do think a healthy bdsm arrangement is not usually PYL acting as life coach, replacement for a father or God, rather two people mutually satisfying each other's needs. Same as any successful vanilla relationship, but the needs are much different. That seems to get lost so often.

It's not my thing, but -

There are people for whom acting as life coach/father replacement/whatever *is* satisfying a fundamental need. Same thing on the other side of the coin, so the whole deal is mutually satisfying.

 

[ataxia.girl]

We walked closer to the horse lo was perched on and began discussing how we were going to do this, cut her nipple off safely, that is. Naturally, she began freaking out. Like, really freaking out. It drew a considerable crowd.

I assured her that this guy was a pro and he promised that he had reattached dozens of nipples. In any case, if there were any complications we would simply put the nip in a ziploc, throw it in the ice and head to the nearest hospice.

C, meanwhile, was chained to a cross with a blindfold on and ear plugs in. lo was cut off from all help, and shaking like a leaf, a look in her eye that swore a debt that could never be repaid, she allowed me to calm her down enough to get her back on the horse and in position.

I laid out my medical equipment, bandages, etc. True to our plan, the good doctor advised I begin by piercing her nipple, so I have something holding it in place to cut from. I order her to keep her eyes closed, and I pierced her nipple with a .25 gauge hypo tip, the kind that are often used in needle play.

Then I brought out a scalpel and made a few practice cuts on her areola. By this time, she is sobbing like I just drowned her poppy in the kitchen sink. I am squeezing her tit, milking it of blood. I tell her to open her eyes.

i do not like bloodplay. It is fun to read about, not so fun to do to me. For the right Dominant, however, i would do this. My body would comply all the while i was screaming and crying and carrying on. i would be fine afterward and yet something about this story just makes me feel like there must be something very wrong with me that i would submit to such an act.... especially knowing i would most likely be willing to submit to similar acts repeatedly. i'm not dumb though, the mindfuck would certainly get more difficult over time.

i guess that is why i have to say "i can't" over and over because 1) i don't really want anyone to know i will do the things i will do and 2) i need to know it is worth the work to him because if he isn't willing to put forth the effort to overcome my loud and persuasive but superficial blocks how do i know he will put forth the effort to take care of me and handle me when things get hard?