You can't? Fuck you!

[ataxia.girl]

Agreed, letting it be what it is should be enough. While the roles are not equal in power it is still above all else a partnership. Nobody should be looking to be fixed or trying to fix another. IMO

i much prefer to be exploited rather than fixed. If i wanted fixed i would have done it already.

 

[madetotakeit]

i much prefer to be exploited rather than fixed. If i wanted fixed i would have done it already.

Here, here!

 

[ataxia.girl]

And there is one more reason why i am fond of protesting. Irritated and pissed off Dominants "helping" me do what they ask make me kinda wet "down there" Not necessary all the time but pretty regularly i just like the rush of seeing what will happen if i don't do just as i'm told without complaint. Refusal is one of the few cards i have and sometimes i want to play it and see if you can still win because when you win, i win and it doesn't count if i am always just letting you win.

 

[Netzach]

I like this.

And this is where I get as straightforward as JMo.
No one's twisting your arm, there's the door, hope you meet someone who will do what you like, not me.

I like "no"

then an hour later
"I'm sorry, I was being unreasonable, of course I will."

Without me having to do a damn thing, other than let the implications of "no" defrost in that frosty little brain of his. It works well for us. The spirit of the agreements he makes with himself is much more persuasive than my bitch slap.

 

[twysted73]

That night, as we were returning to the conference hotel, I stopped at a 7-11 and bought a bag of ice, which I put into a styrofoam cooler that I had brought from home. My girls had no idea what was going on.

When we got to the dungeon, I took lo to the blood play area and had her strip. Then I went up to the Master I spoke to earlier, and asked if he would care to help me in a mindfuck.

I explained to him that my subs basically know that I'm crazy and capable of doing anything. Still, if my sub was going to believe that I intended on cutting her nipple off, having a surgeon on hand promising to sew it back on would add some credibility to the threat. I told him his lines and he agreed gladly.

We walked closer to the horse lo was perched on and began discussing how we were going to do this, cut her nipple off safely, that is. Naturally, she began freaking out. Like, really freaking out. It drew a considerable crowd.

I assured her that this guy was a pro and he promised that he had reattached dozens of nipples. In any case, if there were any complications we would simply put the nip in a ziploc, throw it in the ice and head to the nearest hospice.

C, meanwhile, was chained to a cross with a blindfold on and ear plugs in. lo was cut off from all help, and shaking like a leaf, a look in her eye that swore a debt that could never be repaid, she allowed me to calm her down enough to get her back on the horse and in position.

I laid out my medical equipment, bandages, etc. True to our plan, the good doctor advised I begin by piercing her nipple, so I have something holding it in place to cut from. I order her to keep her eyes closed, and I pierced her nipple with a .25 gauge hypo tip, the kind that are often used in needle play.

Then I brought out a scalpel and made a few practice cuts on her areola. By this time, she is sobbing like I just drowned her poppy in the kitchen sink. I am squeezing her tit, milking it of blood. I tell her to open her eyes.

I have put some vanilla ice cream into a crystal bowl, all of which I had kept in the cooler. the blood is dripping onto the vanilla ice cream... like... a red sauce. I look her right in the eye as I put the first spoonful in my mouth. We spent the next few minutes feeding each other bloody vanilla ice cream until I knew everything was ok. I let her finish off the bowl while I unchained C for her scene.

*applauds* That was beautiful.

What a fruitful thought process!
Ok, sleeping now.

It's been a long fucking day.
And I have noone to beat for it.

 

[Adakgirl]

Again, I join the thread after you all have already chewed on the topic, swallowed it and digested it. So please have patience with me. Humor me a moment if you will.

What is the essence of a Master/slave relationship?

The slave doing anything the Master says, correct?

No I do not agree that the above statement is completely correct.
I say the essence of a M/s relationship is
The slave is WILLING, to do anything the Master says.

As your nipple surgery scene so vividly shows. Your girl laid back on that table, believing you were actually going to cut her nipple right off, trusting in you that the fake Dr. would sew it back on. She was willing to submit to that because you told her you were going to do it. You didn't have to even tell her TO do it. She was willing to do anything. That is the essence, that is what it boils down too, trust and the willingness of a slave to submit completely to her Masters wishes.

(of course you may have unknowingly tipped her off that you weren't really serious..with a certain twinkle in your eye or a slight curve if the lips.)

 

[ataxia.girl]

I like "no"

then an hour later
"I'm sorry, I was being unreasonable, of course I will."

Without me having to do a damn thing, other than let the implications of "no" defrost in that frosty little brain of his. It works well for us. The spirit of the agreements he makes with himself is much more persuasive than my bitch slap.

i like this too; being made to argue with myself. i think what i test for more than anything else is capitulation. Being made to stew all by myself, definitely not the same thing. What i generally want more than anything is to please...or rather to get attention by pleasing. When i play the "i'm not sure i can" card and am faced with "well that's what i want so figure out if that's what you want" i am both reassured by not successfully manipulating the situation and am not rewarded with the thrilling angry attention i was seeking.

 

[Etoile]

*rubs head up into Etoile's palm*

I'll take it any way I can get it, baby.

Awwww...okay, that was adorable.

 

[Etoile]

You're the same way about bugs. Just hearing about that type of thing makes my inner sadist sit up and take notice! So many possibilities - some planned, others impromptu, to press the buttons associated with those types of fears and aversions.

OMG, total relationship-ending hard limit!! Never thought about this before, but unless we're talking ladybugs, I'm SO not going there. I believed butterflies could bite me until I was 21, and I don't let my wife watch anything on TV about bugs. I hate bugs. If you told me to eat one of those cricket lollipops I would totally flip out and have a panic attack. I've been a vegetarian for 15 years, but it's not related to that...if I were ordered to eat meat I could probably do that, but doing anything with a bug is a surefire way to make me hate the person REAL fast.

And then there's checklist type of stuff. Ever notice how often new subs are instructed to fill one out, declaring what they will & won't do? I really hate those things, which I consider to be as sexy as tax returns, contradictory to my role as the one in charge, and insulting to my interpersonal judgment to boot.

Oh, I think those are fun, but more in a "here's what I'm interested in, here's what I really love" way, not as a will or won't do type thing.

 

[Homburg]

Checklists are a tool, and can be dead useful. I won't have a casual one-time bottom fill one out. Not worth the time, as we are mor elikely to discuss a given activity, and then not deviate outside those lines. For a repeat bottom, it is a handy thing, for ideas as Netz said, or just a simple idea of where the bottom is. Yes, I can get all of the information there in negotiation, but I've found that checklists can help a bottom order their thoughts. It makes the bottom think a bit about their experience, likes, dislikes, etc. There's other, more subtle, psychology that sometimes goes on with those checklists, but it is individual specific and not germane.

Negotiation and judgement is fine and good, but it doesn't really help when dealing with irrational triggers that just hadn't come up in comversation yet. Sure, you can imagine that many a bottom is afraid of spiders, and handle that topic carefully, but how about a rope bottom that is deathly afraid of open-hand spanking? I've had this happen. Tying a girl that had never bottomed aside from being a rope bunny, and she decided that she wanted to get into a little painplay. I start working things and discover one swat in that open-hand spankings make her break down. Not fun, and not something that she'd thought about prior to asking for some pain, for whatever reason. A checklist would've ordered her thought processes, and she would have warned me. As is, I asked if she had any problem with any sorts of pain, etc, and just had not specifically asked about spanking.

 

[JMohegan]

OMG, total relationship-ending hard limit!! Never thought about this before, but unless we're talking ladybugs, I'm SO not going there. I believed butterflies could bite me until I was 21, and I don't let my wife watch anything on TV about bugs. I hate bugs. If you told me to eat one of those cricket lollipops I would totally flip out and have a panic attack. I've been a vegetarian for 15 years, but it's not related to that...if I were ordered to eat meat I could probably do that, but doing anything with a bug is a surefire way to make me hate the person REAL fast.

There's a whole hell of a lot of ground in between that which makes someone girly-squeamish, and phobias inducing panic attacks.

What's interesting to me about this discussion is that I don't really consider myself to be an emotional or mental sadist. For example, Etoile, I remember reading about your experience with a partner who once entertained himself by telling you it's over, e didn't love you, etc., and later saying don't worry, it was just a game. That's a good example of the type of thing that I would never do.

But there is an element of emotional sadism in refusing to accept "I can't." Clearly nothing's purely physical when it comes to SM.

 

[Anne_Prospere]

It reminded me of the castration scene but of course taken about three steps further. I can honestly say I would have freaked out long before the scalpel came out.

I did feak out. Images of what the inside of my nipple looked like flashed across my eyes.
I freaked out, hard.

 

[Anne_Prospere]

I like no.
"No" is exciting, as I'm very much a "yes" kind of girl these days. Of course I dont mean NO.
What I mean is "make me" (well I mean, please make me.)

 

[Netzach]

There's a whole hell of a lot of ground in between that which makes someone girly-squeamish, and phobias inducing panic attacks.

What's interesting to me about this discussion is that I don't really consider myself to be an emotional or mental sadist. For example, Etoile, I remember reading about your experience with a partner who once entertained himself by telling you it's over, e didn't love you, etc., and later saying don't worry, it was just a game. That's a good example of the type of thing that I would never do.

But there is an element of emotional sadism in refusing to accept "I can't." Clearly nothing's purely physical when it comes to SM.

It's funny - I'd be on board if my top wanted to fuck with my head in the latter form, in serious and for-keeps kind of ways - just subjecting me to unpleasant shit in a ha ha kind of vein or a very public look how freaked out I can make her about a body part way and it's a good way to lose me fast.

I guess I'm happy to feed someone's dark side, but not interested in feeding their ego. I think it's like, I don't mind being laughed at, but if the joke isn't sufficiently sophisticated, I lose respect for the movie.

ETA this is in no way a dis on M's I'm gonna cut yer nipple off headfuck, which is by far one of the best accounts of the "I'm gonna lop off your..." headfuck out there.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I did feak out. Images of what the inside of my nipple looked like flashed across my eyes.
I freaked out, hard.

LOL, been there done that a couple of years ago when he did a similar thing....fortunately it was before I joined BME and saw some videos of nipples coming off and being swallowed...can see that totally appealing to him when he is in the right mood which is why I am pleased he hasn't expressed an interest in checking out the site!!

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

It's funny - I'd be on board if my top wanted to fuck with my head in the latter form, in serious and for-keeps kind of ways - just subjecting me to unpleasant shit in a ha ha kind of vein or a very public look how freaked out I can make her about a body part way and it's a good way to lose me fast.

I guess I'm happy to feed someone's dark side, but not interested in feeding their ego. I think it's like, I don't mind being laughed at, but if the joke isn't sufficiently sophisticated, I lose respect for the movie.

ETA this is in no way a dis on M's I'm gonna cut yer nipple off headfuck, which is by far one of the best accounts of the "I'm gonna lop off your..." headfuck out there.

If an insect-squeamish woman sees a spider, jumps and pulls up her hand, and I tell her to put her hand back on the railing and hold it there, which she does, and the spider slowly approaches and crawls up over her knuckles..... I'm not laughing. I think that's hot, in a commitment-validating and sadist-satisfying kind of way.

It's not about a spider fetish or a need to assert the joke's on her. It's about overcoming an individual's resistance, in ways large and small. It's about control, and what I can get her to do or endure solely 'cause I want her to. Yes, it feeds my ego, but with the right kind of person it also tightens the bond.

But you're right, I'm not a sophisticated mindfuck player. Not a deep dark side, mental or physical, edge player either. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Someone who seeks those things would bored out of her mind with a guy like me.

Oh - and you're also right about Marquis. The nipple tale was smokin'!

 

[Netzach]

If an insect-squeamish woman sees a spider, jumps and pulls up her hand, and I tell her to put her hand back on the railing and hold it there, which she does, and the spider slowly approaches and crawls up over her knuckles..... I'm not laughing. I think that's hot, in a commitment-validating and sadist-satisfying kind of way.

It's not about a spider fetish or a need to assert the joke's on her. It's about overcoming an individual's resistance, in ways large and small. It's about control, and what I can get her to do or endure solely 'cause I want her to. Yes, it feeds my ego, but with the right kind of person it also tightens the bond.

But you're right, I'm not a sophisticated mindfuck player. Not a deep dark side, mental or physical, edge player either. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Someone who seeks those things would bored out of her mind with a guy like me.

Oh - and you're also right about Marquis. The nipple tale was smokin'!

I think I'm even less sophisticated. Nothing says I love you like emptying the catbox so I can work 15 more minutes.

 

[im_a_voyeur]

I'll bite.

Why is that, my little one?

Well, you stated this earlier:

Let's keep this simple people.

What is the essence of a Master/slave relationship?

The slave doing anything the Master says, correct?

Correct.

On the most brutally simplistic of terms, is this not what it boils down to?

And yet, little girls all too happy to call themselves "slaves" are constantly refusing commands, on the basis of "I can't."

Since I don't label myself as a slave, then I should retain my right to refuse by your definition.




Yeah, I have to say I'm not a fan of impossible tasks either.

 

[Netzach]

I think there are certain types that thrive on being set up to fail at least once in a while, people who need to be reminded that perfectionism isn't possible, and things like that. People who feel the ego thing is off kilter in their favor a lot of the time tend to love this.

I think there are other people, perhaps from hypercritical backgrounds, who do not need to have their nose rubbed in failure to feel humble, and whose patience with annoyance is slim - I know I've experienced "wtf, you know I'll jump off a cliff for you, why do you need to rub that in my face?" and it shuts down that willingness to do anything at all, let alone cliffs.

It's funny, it's almost like I go from "yes yes yes" to "do it yourself then, jackoff" bypassing "make me" altogether.

 

[Marquis]

I think there are certain types that thrive on being set up to fail at least once in a while, people who need to be reminded that perfectionism isn't possible, and things like that. People who feel the ego thing is off kilter in their favor a lot of the time tend to love this.

I think there are other people, perhaps from hypercritical backgrounds, who do not need to have their nose rubbed in failure to feel humble, and whose patience with annoyance is slim - I know I've experienced "wtf, you know I'll jump off a cliff for you, why do you need to rub that in my face?" and it shuts down that willingness to do anything at all, let alone cliffs.

If I told you that one of those people was C and one of those was lo, would you know who was who?

I know which one is your husband and which one is your slave.

 

[Marquis]

Since I don't label myself as a slave, then I should retain my right to refuse by your definition.

Quite right my love, but logic will not save you from the sheer unrelenting brutality of the tickle attack you will receive when you get here!!!!!

MUAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!

 

[Marquis]

*applauds* That was beautiful.

What a fruitful thought process!

ETA this is in no way a dis on M's I'm gonna cut yer nipple off headfuck, which is by far one of the best accounts of the "I'm gonna lop off your..." headfuck out there.

Oh - and you're also right about Marquis. The nipple tale was smokin'!

Thanks guys.

I'd be lying through my teeth if I said that I don't appreciate a little recognition.

 

[BiBunny]

I think there are certain types that thrive on being set up to fail at least once in a while, people who need to be reminded that perfectionism isn't possible, and things like that. People who feel the ego thing is off kilter in their favor a lot of the time tend to love this.

I think there are other people, perhaps from hypercritical backgrounds, who do not need to have their nose rubbed in failure to feel humble, and whose patience with annoyance is slim - I know I've experienced "wtf, you know I'll jump off a cliff for you, why do you need to rub that in my face?" and it shuts down that willingness to do anything at all, let alone cliffs.

It's funny, it's almost like I go from "yes yes yes" to "do it yourself then, jackoff" bypassing "make me" altogether.

I'm the person in the part I bolded. It takes very little stupid jumping-through-hoops shit for me to say, "You know what? Have fun doing it by yourself, asshole."

 

[rosco rathbone]

jackoff" .

One of my faves, pronounced "jegoff", NYC style.

Couple of "gibrones" and a "fucko" and you are good to go.

 

[Netzach]

One of my faves, pronounced "jegoff", NYC style.

Couple of "gibrones" and a "fucko" and you are good to go.

Of course, who would ever pronounce it phonetically?