2009 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

[CrimsonMaiden]

I would really like to know how we plan to dictate the difference between a Chapter and a sequel. Is the Matrix one, two or three movies? I would honestly claim that it's two movies. The Matrix is one movie capable of standing alone, then Revolutions and Reloaded are one big movie. For the purposes of the contest though what would that be considered?

It's very simple. If the story will stand alone on its own merits, then it's not a chapter. As long as you can understand what is going on without having to go back and read a previous entry, it's not a chapter. We are trying to get back to the beginning spirit of the contest which was to write as many "original" stories in as many categories as possible. Writing a gazillion chapters in one series really doesn't fit the spirit of the contest.

We're still hammering out the details with the immunities.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So again specifically. How many stories is The Matrix? What defines stand alone? I would argue that Batman Begins aside no Batman story in the last thirty years stands on its own. It's assumed that you're American ergo Batman needs no introduction. It really isn't enough to say that if it stands alone because Batman doesn't stand alone.

That rule just sounds like it will inevitably cause more heart ache than it solves. As has been pointed out earlier, just don't actually attach a number to a story and you'll probably effectively bypass this rule. I'll admit I haven't followed the contest particularly closely the years when I wasn't involved personally. And while I have plenty of stories that are definitely building towards something most of the chapters make sense alone.

I guess I'll not raise to much of a fuss, doesn't seem like it does much good anyway.

Since we are still figuring out the immunities thing I'd like a clarification of how things have functioned in the past. When the lottery brings up your number you gain an immunity correct? Are these retroactive? I imagine these things happen once a month if you join in September is the price you pay for joining mid race is that you've missed out on 9 immunities. Even if you would have been entitled to them? So there is a benefit to joining the contest officially in January?

 

[Darkniciad]

The definition is that you have to be able to take the story and understand what's going on without reading what's before.

Daughter of the Wood is a sequel to Steward of the Wood. You can read either of them, and they're complete stories. When read in order, you know more about Xantina and Daniel when you read Daughter, but the story in Daughter is really about Xanbrina. The other two become supporting characters in the second story.

If you look at the second chapter of Blackhawk, there's a big difference. Here's the first few paragraphs.

The Duke and Duchess had just dressed after bathing when Arilee walked into the bath room. She marveled for a moment that there was no evidence of the battle that had occurred here only a short time before. She found that she had to concentrate to maintain her composure in light of Christi wearing only a thin nightshirt and Cerebus clad in only a pair of cotton pants.

"Excuse me — Ashtar wishes to speak with you."

Mindblind grunted and nodded his head. "That's a good sign for you, Ari. If Ashtar recognized that you're taking over for Gwen, you've got to be on the right track."

"Ari... I like that, Dear. How about you, Arilee?"

Arilee smiled. "It was always my nickname, but it has been a long time since anyone used it. I was always fond of it."

Christi smiled back at her. "Good. Do send Ashtar in, Ari. You might want to stay if he hasn't spoken to you about what happened. He's very thorough and he'll want to talk to us both about what we saw."

Duke and Duchess of where? What battle? Ari who? Where'd she come from? What is she doing here? Ashtar who? Who's Gwen, and what did she do?

You get the picture. None of these questions are answered later, because they were answered in chapter one.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Fair enough I suppose. I would argue that every single James Bond movie (and Book) starts out at the end of a previous (and often untold or unrelated) story) but I guess basically it's a combination of use your own common sense and if the story makes sense alone.

I pity the mods on that. Still whatever, just lets me attempt to plot a strategy.

 

[AH_Librarian]

Immunities are awarded on a weekly basis right now. That part will not change. They are not retroactive. You only have a certain amount of time to claim an immunity. Once that time is passed, if you didn't claim it, you lost it. For a full understand of how the current immunity rule works simply click on the December immunity thread and read the comments at the bottom of the first post.

(This is Crim btw. Didn't feel like switching IDs just to answer a question and then switch back.)

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Proposed New Rules:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exceptions to this rule are:
   --- a) the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain;
   --- b) the Novels and Novellas category, where submissions can either be standalone stories with 7500 words or more, or chapters of a larger work, as long as each chapter has 7500 words or more.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on. This is only verified at the end of the year, as always, and as happens to all aspects of Survivor. The order in which stories are written is irrelevant. By the end of the year, the 4th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 3 submissions or 1 immunity on all categories. The 6th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 5 submissions or 2 immunities on all categories. The 7th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 6 submissions or 3 immunities on all categories.
   
   
3. Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that cap level to any further submissions. That immunity will be worth no points. For example, if you use an immunity, the first cap level is filled (first cap level being 3 submissions.) If your cap is then raised to 5 submissions, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth no points or by writing two stories. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity or story; and so on, a new immunity or story for each cap level. A cap level can only have either one immunity or the required number of stories but not both. Immunities will not count for points, regardless of the cap level. Categories filled by immunities will still count towards the total number of categories filled bonuses.
   
   
4. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies; the bonuses for having submissions/immunities in 10, in 20, in 30 and in all categories, remain as this year's edition.
   
   
5. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.

 

[starrkers]

Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that cap level to any further submissions. That immunity will be worth no points. For example, if you use an immunity, the first cap level is filled (first cap level being 3 submissions.) If your cap is then raised to 5 submissions, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth no points or by writing two stories. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity or story; and so on, a new immunity or story for each cap level. A cap level can only have either one immunity or the required number of stories but not both. Immunities will not count for points, regardless of the cap level. Categories filled by immunities will still count towards the total number of categories filled bonuses.

I'd like an amendment to this to make it concrete and crystal clear that any stories for a category in which an immunity has been used must be written AFTER the immunity was awarded to apply to the higher cap level.

 

[fieryjen]

I'd like an amendment to this to make it concrete and crystal clear that any stories for a category in which an immunity has been used must be written AFTER the immunity was awarded to apply to the higher cap level.

But, as previously mentioned, Lauren has said several times that it is impossible for the mods to verify all story submission dates.

Does it really matter that much whether or not they were written before or after the immunity was applied?

 

[starrkers]

It's not that difficult to check three or four story submission dates, they're on everyone's member page after all. It would only apply to immunised categories that have extra stories in them, that's unlikely to be many.

I think it matters. As I've said before, without that proviso it is possible to use an immunity to leapfrop a cap level.

 

[fieryjen]

True, though I have to say that part doesn't bother me much, personally. I'll leave it to others to make that decision.

 

[KarennaC]

I agree with Starrkers; if an immunity is used at a given cap level in a given category, then any stories in that category will have to have been submitted AFTER the immunity was used. If a story was submitted before the immunity, then however many other stories are needed to fill the cap level will have to be submitted before an immunity can be used.

I know that some things won't be verified until the end of the contest, and I know that some people don't update their scorecard until the end, but maybe there should be a requirement that people put the date each story is posted on their scorecard? That would address being able to determine whether someone leapfrogged the immunity rule. (I know some people already put the dates on their scorecard; personally, I didn't.)

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[MungoParkIII]

I'd like an amendment to this to make it concrete and crystal clear that any stories for a category in which an immunity has been used must be written AFTER the immunity was awarded to apply to the higher cap level.

It's not that difficult to check three or four story submission dates, they're on everyone's member page after all. It would only apply to immunised categories that have extra stories in them, that's unlikely to be many.

I think it matters. As I've said before, without that proviso it is possible to use an immunity to leapfrop a cap level.

There is a difference between when person writes a story and when the story is submitted. If there is a rule requiring the immunity to be won and declared before stories can be posted on top of the cap then you will be encouraging the hoarding of stories while the contestant awaits immunities.

Additionally, while it is not difficult to check the three or four story submission dates for a single writer, remember, the official score cards are not required to be completed until January 4th or so and the winner is announced just a day or two later. I don't think the moderators will have the time in those few days to check every contestant, or even just every contestant competing for prize levels and still have time to finalize the results.

Quite frankly, with the new cap system I think they will be so busy confirming all the cap levels are scored correctly they simply won't have time to check the dates on all immunities and still validate all the results, unless you don't mind having the results for the contest being announced a month or two after the contest closes.

MPIII

 

[MungoParkIII]

I think it matters. As I've said before, without that proviso it is possible to use an immunity to leapfrop a cap level.

I thought that was kind of the point behind the immunities now, to skip over a cap level without needing to write the stories.


MPIII

 

[MungoParkIII]

I did have a question regarding the selection of immunities. Must the cap level be filled for all other categories before you add a second or third level of immunities?

In other words, if a lucky contestant won immunities in each of the first seven weeks of the competition could they simply pick a category, say non-erotic for example, and fill in the cap level 3, and then fill in the cap level 5, and then 6,7,8,9,10 for non-erotic stories during those first seven weeks and then fill in the story levels for all other categories during the rest of the year? Or must they simply fill in cap level three in non-erotic, then write up to level three for all other categories before they can then stack a second immunity in the non-erotic category?

The above scenario seems almost impossible to verify.

MPIII

 

[fieryjen]

I did have a question regarding the selection of immunities. Must the cap level be filled for all other categories before you add a second or third level of immunities?

In other words, if a lucky contestant won immunities in each of the first seven weeks of the competition could they simply pick a category, say non-erotic for example, and fill in the cap level 3, and then fill in the cap level 5, and then 6,7,8,9,10 for non-erotic stories during those first seven weeks and then fill in the story levels for all other categories during the rest of the year? Or must they simply fill in cap level three in non-erotic, then write up to level three for all other categories before they can then stack a second immunity in the non-erotic category?

The above scenario seems almost impossible to verify.

MPIII

I don't think so. From what I understand, I could stack immunities wherever I want to.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I did have a question regarding the selection of immunities. Must the cap level be filled for all other categories before you add a second or third level of immunities?

In other words, if a lucky contestant won immunities in each of the first seven weeks of the competition could they simply pick a category, say non-erotic for example, and fill in the cap level 3, and then fill in the cap level 5, and then 6,7,8,9,10 for non-erotic stories during those first seven weeks and then fill in the story levels for all other categories during the rest of the year? Or must they simply fill in cap level three in non-erotic, then write up to level three for all other categories before they can then stack a second immunity in the non-erotic category?

The above scenario seems almost impossible to verify.

MPIII

I believe the discussion has been to use them wherever you wish. It's not going to matter if you stack a category, because it's not going to help you that much in the end. You won't get any points for those immunities, and there is no longer the 5 point bonus for filling a category with 10 submissions, so stacking is not going to gain you much in the long run (in other words, it's not going to give you an unfair advantage.) You're still going to have the meet the cap level requirements for all other categories in order to proceed to the next level.

 

[DirtyGeisha]

I've never done this, but I want to is there official sign up/rules?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I've never done this, but I want to is there official sign up/rules?

Not yet. The sign up thread will be posted sometime after Christmas.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Proposed New Rules:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exceptions to this rule are:
   --- a) the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain;
   --- b) the Novels and Novellas category, where submissions can either be standalone stories with 7500 words or more, or chapters of a larger work, as long as each chapter has 7500 words or more.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on. This is only verified at the end of the year, as always, and as happens to all aspects of Survivor. The order in which stories are written is irrelevant. By the end of the year, the 4th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 3 submissions or 1 immunity on all categories. The 6th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 5 submissions or 2 immunities on all categories. The 7th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 6 submissions or 3 immunities on all categories.
   
   
3. Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that cap level to any further submissions. That immunity will be worth no points. For example, if you use an immunity, the first cap level is filled (first cap level being 3 submissions.) If your cap is then raised to 5 submissions, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth no points or by writing two stories. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity or story; and so on, a new immunity or story for each cap level. A cap level can only have either one immunity or the required number of stories but not both. Immunities will not count for points, regardless of the cap level. Categories filled by immunities will still count towards the total number of categories filled bonuses.
   
   
4. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies; the bonuses for having submissions/immunities in 10, in 20, in 30 and in all categories, remain as this year's edition.
   
   
5. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.

Anything else anyone wants to discuss?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

We're quickly heading towards the start of the 2009 contest. If you've got any other comments or suggestions about the new proposed rules, speak up!

 

[WFEATHER]

Wow - I rarely come to the forums and so I see this about a month or so late :-|

Two things I feel need to be pointed out:
1.) The proposed scoring system is going to cause absolute nightmares for the moderators. Imagine what each Survivor participant is trying to do to track all this scoring, and then multiply that by the number of participants. I hope each moderator has a liquified form of Advil in an IV drip because it will be needed.
2.) I can understand the no multi-chapter rule, but I can say this from experience: There are times when a story is essentially done and submitted, but then later the characters start screaming for their story to be continued; or there are times when a story is rolling along quite nicely and suddenly there is a long mental block on that story before it is ever able to be picked up again and continued/finished.

I can definitely understand the desire to push participants to expand their writing horizons, and that is part of why I started participating in Survivor several years ago - and it has definitely been successful in that effort, at least with me. On the other hand, what has been proposed thus far is so damn complex that the number of participants will shrink significantly - it may not affect (much) the number of submissions to the site overall, but it will scare away potential participants, which has both good and bad effects overall.

Personally, I think the submission cap per category idea needs to be dropped to keep the scoring simple - either that, or the submission cap needs to be dramatically raised, perhaps to 10 or 15. Eliminating multi-chapter submissions will also help in that endeavor - and I will openly admit that I am one of the most guilty people on this site in terms of using multiple chapters in Survivor (look at my submission page and check the number of chapters on "Twins in College" and "Fated," for example).

I realize this post is probably rather late in terms of affecting any change, but hopefully this is food for thought for everyone here.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Speaking as a moderator, I don't think the proposed scoring change is going to be any more complex than the current system. The cap will encourage diversity. A participant must fill the cap for all categories to move on. This will strengthen the chance of an author writing in a category he/she might not ordinarily want to. Of course, the immunities still exist for that reason also, but you are no longer awarded for using them. Raising it dramatically like you suggest negates the reason for it in the first place.

As far as the multi-chaptered stories go, it's already been pointed out that you *can* continue to write about the same characters as long as each story is completely stand alone.


As far as number of participants... have you checked the scoreboard to see how many sign up that never even bother to fill out a scorecard, much less write a story? I don't think it's going to make a significant difference in the number of serious participants.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The problem I see with the chapter rule is that we keep sayig you can use the same charachters over as long as the story stands alone but on the off chance that things are at all close I see that getting challenged a lot. (IMX the top three in these things have usually won in mid July and could probably stop there not only without losing but possibly without risking rank.

I mean nobody has really answered me if about if Rocky Balboa stands alone or if you NEED to watch the first five for it to make sense. And if it's the difference between one prize and another you better believe I'm gonna scream and shout that Aliens vs Predator makes no sense if you haven't watched the Aliens Quadrilogy, both Predators, read the comics and played the video games. And I'd likely keep screaming until ten stories got boiled down to three.

It becomes a trust issue. Since I'm aiming and hoping for top twenty five or so I'm only so concerned but I see this as a major potential hazard.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I've seen Rocky Balboa. Yes, I think it stands alone. There's enough back story in that particular movie for you to understand it without having to go back and watch all of the other movies.

Bottom line is... if a submitted story does not stand alone and is clearly just a continuation of a previous story... it's not going to count for points. I think *most* people are honest enough to abide by this rule and those that don't are only hurting themselves in the long run (yes I know, there unfortunately is usually a rotten apple or two who just have to bend/break the rules). The moderators will be watching and if we see someone doing this, I can guarantee you, there will be a warning posted (just like there was this year). This way, they have time to edit said story to fix the issue.


Plus, as a participant, you always have the right to contact the moderators with any concerns you have about a story that does not follow the rules.