2009 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

[KarennaC]

I agree with FieryJen and Darkniciad.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

So I say no points for the immunities, but they count toward category bonuses to give them a bit more value and relevance.

Ditto. No points, but they should count toward category bonuses.

(Why I'm even "voting" I don't know... do I really think I'm going to be competing next year, while I'm running eXcessica and nursing a newborn? Am I out of my freakin mind??)

 

[Darkniciad]

*Laugh* I'll never compete either, Selena. In a way, that gives us a bit more of an objective opinion. We don't have a horse in the race.

 

[fieryjen]

I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll compete.

The rule changes may very well influence my decision, but I don't think that makes my opinion any less valid.

 

[starrkers]

I like the lottery aspect of the immunities having some point value - adds a bit of fun and luck to the contest - but I don't really care what they're worth, as long as they count as "category filled".

I'd like to throw another question into the mix.

Should past winners be ineligible for entry?

If so, to what degree? Should all cash winning place getters be deemed ineligible or just the first place getter? Should ANY prize winner (cash or gift certificate) be ineligible? Should the ineligibility be for one year, a couple of years or permanent?

 

[Darkniciad]

I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll compete.

The rule changes may very well influence my decision, but I don't think that makes my opinion any less valid.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that -- at all.

On the positive side, I now know that I need new shoes. I can see the soles pretty well with it stuck in my mouth

If so, to what degree? Should all cash winning place getters be deemed ineligible or just the first place getter? Should ANY prize winner (cash or gift certificate) be ineligible? Should the ineligibility be for one year, a couple of years or permanent?

I think a year would be long enough, and only for the top money places. That give some of the people who almost made it another run at the top.

 

[fieryjen]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that -- at all.

On the positive side, I now know that I need new shoes. I can see the soles pretty well with it stuck in my mouth



I think a year would be long enough, and only for the top money places. That give some of the people who almost made it another run at the top.

Don't worry, no offense taken.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Personally, I like the idea of not allowing the winner or top winners to participate the following year, BUT... it's impossible to enforce. All the winner has to do is create an alt.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I like the lottery aspect of the immunities having some point value - adds a bit of fun and luck to the contest - but I don't really care what they're worth, as long as they count as "category filled".

I'd like to throw another question into the mix.

Should past winners be ineligible for entry?

If so, to what degree? Should all cash winning place getters be deemed ineligible or just the first place getter? Should ANY prize winner (cash or gift certificate) be ineligible? Should the ineligibility be for one year, a couple of years or permanent?

Ah that's a good question to raise, indeed. I imagine we'll get lots of interesting opinions on this one.

My personal opinion is that I think the top winner should be ineligible for the following year. I know the year I competed and won 2nd I was too tired to compete the next year! lol

But everyone else, aside from the top winner, should be able to compete for the top place the next year. That seems fair to me.

Personally, I like the idea of not allowing the winner or top winners to participate the following year, BUT... it's impossible to enforce. All the winner has to do is create an alt.

Damn. That's true.

Although I imagine there's a way Laurel/Manu could tell it was an alt. *shrug* It might get too complicated to enforce?

Perhaps in the prize collecting phase - i.e. if the check was being sent to the same person/place? I dunno...

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'd be all for the top winner not competing in future years. I'm a little biased of course

There is the issue with alts but would someone who won be so desperate for the money that he or she would create an alt? And if that happened they would be the type to try to get around other rules anyways right?

I wonder if the mods can ask Laurel if it's possible to identify (by IP?) Survivor contestants, to help rule out the alt-creation thing?

I like the idea... just want to know if it's actually do-able.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I can ask Laurel, but personally, I don't agree with banning previous winners from entering the competition. Not only is it too easy to fool the system, but what would be the point? Survivor is supposed to be an inclusive challenge, one which everyone should enjoy participating.

 

[KarennaC]

At this point, I'm not planning to participate next year because I burned myself out this year trying to post a story a day or so, and ended up with a case of writer's block that still hasn't completely resolved. So I don't know that I'd be able to write anything, or at least write enough to make it into even the top 15 next year. I'm also looking at moving two hours south (moving in with my boyfriend ) and having to find a new job, getting my kids settled in new schools, etc., so 2009 is going to be a horrendously busy year for me.

But one never knows; things might change and I might have a bunch of ideas once the new year starts, and might even find time to write them.

I think the top winner should be eligible to compete the following year; it gives the rest of the competitors a reason to try to write more.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Survivor is supposed to be an inclusive challenge, one which everyone should enjoy participating.

Well, things do change.

The whole structure of this contest has changed considerably during the course of this discussion. And the top winner in Survivor completes a huge, daunting and rather exhausting task to win. Most are too tired to compete the following year anyway, unless they're using previously written, shelved stories. Which sort of circumvents the point of the contest, right?

And the rule changes are going to make it even harder to keep up. We all know chaptered stories, without having to create/develop characters and give background in each one, are easier to write than full, complete stories. I imagine final winning scores are going to go down considerably (or the number of 750 word shorts are going to increase... probably both).

Making the big winner eligible for one year doesn't seem unfair to me. They can try again in a year.

Especially since we do have a history of the ultimate first place winner (and of course, who knows if it's the same individual or not? ) coming in, signing up at the last possible minute (October now) and peppering the site with the minimum possible in terms of length and effort in order to claim the big prize - just because "it looks feasible" to surpass the current winner who has been working their ass off all year writing in the true spirit of Survivor, giving readers good stories in different categories throughout the entire length of the competition.

I don't know that the rest of the Survivor competitors "enjoy" that sort of thing year after year...

 

[scouries]

from the frozen north....

QUOTE CM would those immunity filled categories still count towards the total category filled bonuses?

While I don’t think the category filled bonuses would be required under the proposed system, if you do decide to keep them I’d say allow the immunity filled categories to still count towards them.

I would allow previous years winners to compete.

I’d move up the cut off date for entry into the contest to preclude future MUNGO-ing.

I loved an idea freddie proposed some time ago. He suggested lowering the first place prize (to $100 I think). I believe de-emphasizing winning and putting more emphasis on completing the full ring of categories might make the contest more fun. Perhaps every writer who wrote a story in every category might get a small prize (a T-shirt, a baseball cap) and/or be allowed to display an OFFICIAL 2009 SURVIVOR logo in their signature. Or whatever…

james r scouries

 

[Lauren Hynde]

And the top winner in Survivor completes a huge, daunting and rather exhausting task to win. Most are too tired to compete the following year anyway, unless they're using previously written, shelved stories. Which sort of circumvents the point of the contest, right?

That's really the key, then, isn't it? To write as many new and original stories as it takes to win Survivor is exhausting, therefore one could assume that the following year, the winner will not be competing at the same level, thus making the ban irrelevant. But if there is a ban, that winner will be forced to sit it out; and if he/she isn't quite burnt yet, he/she will have a whole year to write stories and store them in wait for the following year, which sort of circumvents the point of the contest.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

therefore one could assume that the following year, the winner will not be competing at the same level, thus making the ban irrelevant. But if there is a ban, that winner will be forced to sit it out; and if he/she isn't quite burnt yet, he/she will have a whole year to write stories and store them in wait for the following year, which sort of circumvents the point of the contest.

You could assume that, but ya know what they say about assumptions. *shrug*

I would say that whatever negative possible consequences to the winner taking a break for one year - i.e. the possibility they could be squirreling stories away - would be far outweighed by the benefits to all the rest of the Survivor contestants and the contest itself as a whole.

Have to look at the bigger picture, I guess.

 

[Tzara]

I wonder if the mods can ask Laurel if it's possible to identify (by IP?) Survivor contestants, to help rule out the alt-creation thing?

I like the idea... just want to know if it's actually do-able.

All someone would have to do is trot down to their local library or Starbucks to connect in and create their alt, submit stories, etc. Hey, presto, different IP (assuming they normally have been connecting from home through their own ISP).

There are so many places offering Wi-Fi access (airports, libraries, schools, coffee shops, hotels, etc.) that it's quite easy to come in through different IP addresses.

For that matter, they could cancel service from one provider and subscribe to a different provider.

That seems like a pain in the ass to me just to win a contest, but I don't doubt that some people would do that.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

All someone would have to do is trot down to their local library or Starbucks to connect in and create their alt, submit stories, etc. Hey, presto, different IP (assuming they normally have been connecting from home through their own ISP).

There are so many places offering Wi-Fi access (airports, libraries, schools, coffee shops, hotels, etc.) that it's quite easy to come in through different IP addresses.

For that matter, they could cancel service from one provider and subscribe to a different provider.

That seems like a pain in the ass to me just to win a contest, but I don't doubt that some people would do that.

True 'nuff.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Proposed New Rules:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exceptions to this rule are:
   --- a) the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain;
   --- b) the Novels and Novellas category, where submissions can either be standalone stories with 7500 words or more, or chapters of a larger work, as long as each chapter has 7500 words or more.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on. This is only verified at the end of the year, as always, and as happens to all aspects of Survivor. The order in which stories are written is irrelevant. By the end of the year, the 4th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 3 submissions or 1 immunity on all categories. The 6th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 5 submissions or 2 immunities on all categories. The 7th submission by a contestant on any category will only be considered valid if that contestant has 6 submissions or 3 immunities on all categories.
   
   
3. Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that category to any further submissions and fill the 3-submission requirement. That immunity will be worth no points. If your cap is then raised to 5, you can only fill it in this category by using another immunity, which will be worth no points. If your cap is raised to 6, you will need another immunity; and so on, a new immunity for each cap level. A category can only have either regular submissions or immunities, and never both. Categories filled by immunities will still count towards the total number of categories filled bonuses.
   
   
4. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies; the bonuses for having submissions/immunities in 10, in 20, in 30 and in all categories, remain as this year's edition.
   
   
5. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.

Okay, I think the majority have said they feel immunities shouldn't count for points but should count for bonus points. I've bolded the change in the proposed immunity rule.

Okay, next up for discussion: Is the October 31 deadline for sign up satisfactory to everyone?

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I think October 31st is fine. Not a lot of people joined after September it seemed so those that are new and interested joined in enough time.

So just to clarify the story cap for each category

1st level = 3 stories = 1 immunity
2nd level = 5 stories total = 1 immunity
3rd level = 6 stories total = 1 immunity
4th level = 7 stories total = 1 immunity etc....

So if someone wanted to fill each category with say, 10 submissions, they would need to win 7 immunities if they had a category they didn't want to write any stories in.
Hmm.. interesting...

Erin

Yep, but remember, you don't get bonuses any more for 10 submissions in a category.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[fieryjen]

Immunities apply to each category's cap level. If you use an immunity on any given category, that will close down that category to any further submissions and fill the 3-submission requirement.

I'm a bit concerned with this part.

Before, one immunity closed down an entire category and that category was then never touched again, which was fine. Now, because of the caps, that is no longer the case.

It's very difficult to predict where the immunities will need to go with the new cap system, and since one doesn't have much time to decide when to use them once they are won, that sucks a lot.

If I close down one category's first cap with an immunity and then am unlucky enough not to win another one, I'm basically completely shut down after I fill every other category with five stories, because I have no way at all to reach the second cap of five stories on that category. The contest then just lost its point of getting me to write stories to earn points.

Granted the scenario above isn't overly likely, but not as far-fetched that it couldn't happen, which concerns me. So I'd like to see some safeguard or slight change to prevent it from happening.

Personally, I'd like to see immunities not close down the category by the new rules. That way, any author finding themselves in such a bind has the chance to bite the bullet and write for a category they previously excluded, and so they aren't completely screwed over.


Edited to clarify:

So, say I had won a lone immunity for Loving Wives. I use the immunity, and reach the three story cap in that category. Afterwards I write a ton of stories and reach the five story cap in every other category, but I don't win another immunity, therefore I cannot increase my "Loving Wives" cap to 5 to pull even with all other stories and get started on the next round.

I cannot use an immunity for the category if I don't have one, but I'm proposing the rules be changed so that I am allowed to write two Loving Wives stories, add those on top of the immunity I already have for that category to reach the five story cap, and move on to the next cap.

Hope that made it a bit more clear.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I understand what you mean... and I think at the beginning of the plotting, it was discussed to be done that way.

Maybe there's a compromise? Since points are no longer going to be awarded for immunities, maybe one immunity can be worth two cap levels? Either that or using an immunity doesn't close down the category. That's two possible solutions I see. Anyone have other suggestions?