2009 Survivor Literotica Poetry Challenge: Planning & Plotting

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My original idea was this: OK, I'm sitting down to write a poem for Poetry Survivor. I look at the list of forms, and I pick one - let's say it's the sonnet. Now I look at the list of triggers, and I pick "Poem's title is The Cat is Out". So, I write a sonnet called The Cat is Out. Then I decide to write some free-verse, and I look at the list of triggers and pick "Poem must include the words crystal and nuclear", so I write a free-verse poem about the Inaugural Ball (which somehow includes the words crystal and nuclear). Next, I look at the list of triggers and I see one that sounds like fun, "Poem must be based on a news report on CNN.com", so I look at the list of forms to see if there's anything that grab me, and end up writing a ballad about the life of the oldest woman in the world, who died a couple of days ago.

The idea of the triggers is to guarantee, in some way, that these poems are all being written now, this year, and that people aren't just going to go through their notebooks and post that one terzanelle they once wrote in high school. If we don't have these control triggers, or if we have too many "poet's choice" things, what's the point of the game? They can just write whatever they choose outside the scope of the challenge. The point here, I think, would be write in all themes or forms, not to skew the contest into those areas where each is better at. If anything, this should be an opportunity for each of us to try the areas we are not good at. Does that make sense?

My fingers are too cold. :(
I'd agree with most of this, I guess, now that I better understand the intent of the triggers, though I am not sure that they'll do all that much to guarantee people aren't recycling poems.

For example, say you're Literotica member Bill_Worthwords and you pick the trigger "Poem's title is The Cat is Out". You rummage through your old portfolios for something to re-use and come up with
The Cat is Out
Tom Strolls the Hills of Cumbria

I wandered lonely as a cat
That tramps on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a plat,
Or host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

etc.
My idea for Poet's Choice was to assuage, a bit, those leery of the form and theme requirements. You're absolutely right that if I want to write something else I can still do it—it just won't apply to PS.

I mean, it is a game. Theoretically. :rolleyes:
 
But surely if you are going to write something you know nothing about or absolutely hate (grrrrrrr the dreaded sestina... who's got the spreadsheet by the way?) chances are you are going to end up with something atrocious. I didin't mind trying out the teach ins but I wasn't trying to win anything then. Personally I've never heard of half of these
 
But surely if you are going to write something you know nothing about or absolutely hate (grrrrrrr the dreaded sestina... who's got the spreadsheet by the way?) chances are you are going to end up with something atrocious. I didin't mind trying out the teach ins but I wasn't trying to win anything then. Personally I've never heard of half of these

There's a great little book that has become my poetic bible for trying forms - The New Book of Forms (A handbook of poetics) by Lewis Turco. Don't be put off by the huge variety of forms, all the familiar ones are in there too. If you are serious about trying to write form poetry it is worth the investment.

:rose:
 
But surely if you are going to write something you know nothing about or absolutely hate (grrrrrrr the dreaded sestina... who's got the spreadsheet by the way?) chances are you are going to end up with something atrocious.
And if you do, so long as it conforms to the form requirements, why do you care?

I'm not trying to be contrary here, but any particular form is merely a set of rules. You write something that satisfies the rules, you should be fine, regardless of whether it is a "good" poem or not. This is why I am against including forms in which satisfying the rule of the form is a matter or style or judgment.

Perhaps I just write so much awful poetry that it doesn't bother me to write something in a form that I find uncongenial—you just do your best and move on. Part of the challenge of the contest is to attempt things you normally wouldn't do.
I didin't mind trying out the teach ins but I wasn't trying to win anything then. Personally I've never heard of half of these
I expect there will be rules and examples posted for all forms. None of the ones I've mentioned are particularly unusual, I don't think, though there are some (acrostic and sestina) I've never tried. Perhaps we should start a thread of form definitions as a kind of preliminary (unofficial, of course, both because we don't know what forms will be involved nor what the contest definition of a particular form will be) reference for PS. Would that help?

Or would a series of practice threads be better? Start something like "The Triolet Practice Thread", which starts with a definition and example of a triolet, where you can plunk down an atttempt and perhaps have people say "Yep, looks good," or "Well, not quite, because..."
 
That's what we were doing with the teach ins but they have dried up now which is a great pity I found them so helpful as long as nobody made disparaging remarks about our lack of prowess. I say bring back the teach ins then at least we have some idea without plunging headlong into something unknown.
 
There's a great little book that has become my poetic bible for trying forms - The New Book of Forms (A handbook of poetics) by Lewis Turco. Don't be put off by the huge variety of forms, all the familiar ones are in there too. If you are serious about trying to write form poetry it is worth the investment.

:rose:


Yes, I have it as well. It's the book I always consult to learn new forms although I can almost always find more explanation and examples online. :)
 
Yes, I have it as well. It's the book I always consult to learn new forms although I can almost always find more explanation and examples online. :)

Just call me a Luddite. :) I prefer to hold the info in my hot little hand.

I think it was you who first told me about TNBOF way back when we was young. :heart:
 
OK, so we need to start putting together a list of forms. Just a list for now, then we'll take care of the explanations and examples. Could you go through that book and pick us a wide enough selection of the classics? :D
 
omg! What a pleasant surprise to stumble on this thread this morning. Am I not awake yet, or was it indeed a tad confusing?

And so nice to see SB!!! (((SB)))

Anyway, I'm in! Please include villanelles on the list of forms! (as I receive glares from the other dear poets)
 
OK, so we need to start putting together a list of forms. Just a list for now, then we'll take care of the explanations and examples. Could you go through that book and pick us a wide enough selection of the classics? :D
Here's an initial list, more or less of the top of my head with some assist from Turco. I don't think all are desirable for the contest, but I assume we'll all discuss that later. Y'all feel free to add onto this list--it is in no way definitive.
Specific Forms

Acrostic
Cento
Cinquain
Clerihew
Double Dactyl
Ghazal
Glosa
Haiku
Limerick
Onegin Stanza (Pushkin Sonnet)
Pantoum
Renga
Rondeau
Rondeau Redoublé
Rondel
Rondine
Roundelay
Rubliw
Senryu
Sestina
Sonnet (could be separated into English, Italian, Spenserian, etc.)
Tanka
Terzanelle
Triolet
Tritina
Villanelle
Zappai

Stanza Forms

Ballad
Blank Verse
Couplet
Ottava Rima
Prose Poem
Quatrain
Rubáiyát
Syllabic Verse
Terza Rima​
I separated the stanza forms because they often control the form of poems of indeterminate length. For example, while a couplet can be a stand-alone poem, like Pope's
I am His Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?​
it is usually the basis for a much longer poem (e.g., Pope's The Rape of the Lock).

Also, many of these forms are closely related—Rondeau/Rondel/Rondine/Roundelay, for example, or Villanelle/Terzanelle (and possibly Triolet).

ETA: Suggestions by Champie.
ETA: Suggestions by SRS
 
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I'm not sure where a rubaiyat sits but I think they're fun to explore. Perhaps the tritina could find a home here, too. As a challenge to those of us with lousy rhythm, blank verse needs a place.

If free verse is chosen as a formula, then we need to explore prose poems however, if we exclude free verse from the required formulae then it follows that prose poems be counted as a sub-genre of free verse.
 
I'm not sure where a rubaiyat sits but I think they're fun to explore. Perhaps the tritina could find a home here, too. As a challenge to those of us with lousy rhythm, blank verse needs a place.

If free verse is chosen as a formula, then we need to explore prose poems however, if we exclude free verse from the required formulae then it follows that prose poems be counted as a sub-genre of free verse.
These are good additions, Champ. The rubáiyát appears to be a stanza form, like the ballad. The tritina looks interesting (and easier than a sestina). I should have added blank verse originally.

I think the plan was to allow 1:1 free verse to form (or some ratio, anyway).

In any case, I'll update the list with your suggestions.
 
Also, many of these forms are closely related—Rondeau/Rondel/Rondine/Roundelay, for example, or Villanelle/Terzanelle (and possibly Triolet).

You really think the villanelle and terzanelle are that close?
 
What are you confused about?

Many things! Perhaps confused isn't the right word ........ should I try intimidated instead? I will be here till a month next Christmas (2009) trying to read up on how to do the majority of those!
 
Danger! Danger! Large mouthful coming! Can we swallow it?
That is a provocative metaphor to use on a porn site, m'dear. Just sayin'.

But I don't think the idea is to use every form we can possibly think of. As I've said before, I think the Japanese forms (e.g., haiku) aren't well-suited for the game as conformance to those forms is not a matter of objective judgment and I think we should avoid arguments of the form That's not a haiku! Yes, it is. No, it's not. Yes, it is....
 
Many things! Perhaps confused isn't the right word ........ should I try intimidated instead? I will be here till a month next Christmas (2009) trying to read up on how to do the majority of those!
Part of the resources for the game will include definitions and examples (I presume) of the form. Most can simply be googled. I'll try and go back and put in links to form definitions for those in the list when I can.

Also, many of these forms are, as I said, more or less variations on a theme. If you can write a rondeau, for example, a rondine isn't that much different conceptually.
 
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