2012 Survivor Discussion Thread

[Kaishaku]

If the category exists as a story category on Literotica, then it's going to be a category for the contest. The whole point of the survivor contest is to write new & original stories in every category possible. It would be going against the spirit of the contest to remove four categories from the contest that exist as separate categories on Literotica because a participant wants to put stories in non-illustrated or non-audio categories and count them as part of their score.

You are free to add an illustration or audio to your stories if you wish and request they be put in whatever other category, but if the site owners grant your wish, that story counts for whatever category it gets put in, and you still have to either write something for the audio & illustrated categories or get an immunity for them. Odds are you will win at least 2 immunities in the space of a year, and making audios or illustrations for those categories are really not as difficult as people sometimes try to make them out to be.

The point is not to eliminate the illustrated or audio category from the contest but to simply allow adding illustration or audio to other categories... ie. submitting an entry to BDSM enhanced with audio or illustration. We would still have the illustrated and audio categories to fill for the contest, but if a contestant wants to take the extra steps to provide illustration or audio to an entry in a non-illustrated or non-audio category why not allow it?

Based upon your response above (highlighted in bold by me) it appears they would be accepted as contest entries provided they are posted that way. I think that is fair.


K.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

The point is not to eliminate the illustrated or audio category from the contest but to simply allow adding illustration or audio to other categories... ie. submitting an entry to BDSM enhanced with audio or illustration. We would still have the illustrated and audio categories to fill for the contest, but if a contestant wants to take the extra steps to provide illustration or audio to an entry in a non-illustrated or non-audio category why not allow it?

Based upon your response above (highlighted in bold by me) it appears they would be accepted as contest entries provided they are posted that way. I think that is fair.


K.

You might get the site owners to put an illustrated story in a normal category, but odds are, the audio stories are going to go in the audio category. I could be wrong, but I personally have never come across a story in the regular categories that had audio included. Regardless, as I said, if the site owners will put it in the category you wish, I don't see any issue with it. You just can't count the one story for both categories for points.

The part I posted about removing categories from the contest was in response to theravenfox's post.

 

[Tara Cox]

OK, back to the chapter issue for a moment.

My reasons for competing this year or even continuing to post to Lit at all is simple...to build readership for my paid work. In order to do that effectively, I feel that chapter stories are more effective than simply posting the beginning of the story and leaving everyone hanging.

With more authors now utilising Kindle and ebooks to publish their works independently, I believe that I am not alone in this motivation. For this reason, I would like to see one small modification to the the chapter rules...the first chapter of any series can count, but not subsequent ones.

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

OK, back to the chapter issue for a moment.

My reasons for competing this year or even continuing to post to Lit at all is simple...to build readership for my paid work. In order to do that effectively, I feel that chapter stories are more effective than simply posting the beginning of the story and leaving everyone hanging.

With more authors now utilising Kindle and ebooks to publish their works independently, I believe that I am not alone in this motivation. For this reason, I would like to see one small modification to the the chapter rules...the first chapter of any series can count, but not subsequent ones.

Nope, I disagree with allowing chapters, even the first chapter, in the Survivor contest.

I can't see how the Survivor contest will allow you to build an audience and hype your work. Just posting your chaptered stories on Literotica should do that.

The way that I see it is, just like having sex, either you go all the way or you don't. Either we have chapter stories or we don't.

I prefer the idea that has been tossed around for a separate chapter story category. Moreover, I'm in favor of returning the contest to the way that it was with ten stories in each category, instead of 3 and 2 story caps.

Lastly, if you're posting your stories for publication, why would you post them to Literotica for free first? Maybe you do, but I don't know of a publisher who would publish a story that's already been published and by posting your story to Literotica, you are, indeed, publishing it for free.

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

I am sick of seeing shitty little 800-1,200 word nonsensical stories, stories with no beginning, no middle, no ending, no plot, no dialogue, no character development, and no sex being dumped in the Surivor contest just to score a lousy point in the contest.

Yes, of course, this contest is about the most stories written in the most categories wins, but some of what I've read on players scorecards are hardly deemed as stories.

If these stories were submitted in a college creative writing class, they'd be given a failing grade. If these stories where shared for discussion in a creative writing workshop, the writer, along with his or her story, would be torn to shreds. If what you are hoping for is to publish, you'll never publish by writing shitting little, nonsensical stories

I don't know about some of the people here posting stories, but I write the best story that I can. I don't post a story, until I'm proud to read it myself, before sharing it with others.

Have some of you no pride? If you were as passionate about writing as I am, you'd write better stories. Forget about the contest. Fuck the contest. Write for you. You are your first audience, then write for your audience.

Yeah, sure, why write one 8,000 word story, when I can write six shitty little nonsensical stories that have no beginning, no middle, no end, no dialogue, no character development, no plot, and no sex? This is the Survivor contest, who really gives a shit? You're so wrong.

You are cheating yourself as a writer by not writing the best story that you can write. By competing in Survivor since 2007, I've grown as a writer. My writing improves every year. If I were to post shitty little stories. forget about the contest, even if I won, the biggest loser would still be me.

Having posted so many stories under AndTheEnd, BostonFictionWriter, CarBuffStuff, SuperHeroRalph, PositiveThinker, and WmForrester, those writers who continue to post shitty, little stories, don't develop as writers. Is that what you want, just to post a lot of shitty, little stories in the hopes of winning a few dollars?

Before I was a writer, I was a reader and I've read many of the Survivor story submissions and even though there are some very good writers submitting stories to the contest, others are making a sham of the contest and only hurting their art as a writer by posting stories that are beneath their talent.

I encourage everyone to write the best story that they can for the 2012 Survivor contest.

 

[sr71plt]

I am sick of seeing shitty little 800-1,200 word nonsensical stories, stories with no beginning, no middle, no ending, no plot, no dialogue, no character development, and no sex being dumped in the Surivor contest just to score a lousy point in the contest.

They do it because the Byzantine rules permit it and their goal is more winning money and recognition and on upping each other than developing their writing skills (a defense many make for the survivor contest). It's a major reason I think a stake should just be driven through the heart of this contest. It's not constructive.

And, no, not entering it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect writers here who don't enter it and that they should have no part of the discussion of the contest. Site energy and money is going to this that is being denied to other, more creative and constructive, possibilities--and the infighting going on within this contest is helping to drag the whole writing community down.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

They do it because the Byzantine rules permit it and their goal is more winning money and recognition and on upping each other than developing their writing skills (a defense many make for the survivor contest). It's a major reason I think a stake should just be driven through the heart of this contest. It's not constructive.

And, no, not entering it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect writers here who don't enter it and that they should have no part of the discussion of the contest. Site energy and money is going to this that is being denied to other, more creative and constructive, possibilities--and the infighting going on within this contest is helping to drag the whole writing community down.

I'm going to disagree with the "not constructive" part of your post. I find it highly constructive IF it is used as a tool for a writer, which is how I use it. I see it as a place to hold myself "accountable". It gives me a place to track what I've done for the year. Each goal broadens my experiences in writing, so for that reason alone I enjoy Survivor. I try hard not to pay much attention to the folks that are submitting work that isn't up to my standards and I try to not become overly involved in the backdoor drama. I write and submit.

Win or lose - I know how I played the game and I know how I performed. If someone out plays me and I slide down to the bottom of the pack - that's the price I pay - but I go in with the blinders raised, where I think those who know what lies ahead refuse to remove theirs; instead of not participating they join in and complain the entire year even though they know they aren't going to be satisfied.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm going to disagree with the "not constructive" part of your post. I find it highly constructive IF it is used as a tool for a writer, which is how I use it.

I was responding to the premise Freddie gave. One or two folks using it for constructive purposes doesn't justify the expense and effort that goes into this, I don't think. And whereas you might think folks, in general, are using it for creative development--which I don't think a quantiity rather than quality program does to much extent anyway--I don't. What I see is maneuvering to grasp for money and recognition and one-upping and backbiting of each other. So, we disagree on this.

And I see crazy and Byzantine rules and nonexistent facility.

You may see the survivor contest as a call to creative instincts; I don't. I see it as a call to baser instincts and as a nonconstructive use of opportunity funds by the website. (I'd say it was a waste of website energy too, except that I don't see any website energy--or official facilitator energy--going into it.)

 

[Boxlicker101]

I just ran across something that has not been addressed before. What should be done about an entry in the Novels & Novellas category that does not meet the 7,500 word category? This is just a requirement for the Survivors' contest; there is no length requirement set by Lit. for an entry in the category.

There is nothing said about this in the rules, and it doesn't seem right to give no score at all for a story or chapter that is a bit short of the requirement, so I scored three points for it. Should this be SOP? It won't happen very often, but it might happen some time again.

 

[Kaishaku]

7500 word in Novel/novella category

If you are awarding 3 points for stories shorter than 7500 words in the novel category then a 750 word novel scores higher than an immunity. I think other contestants should have had the opportunity to score with something less than 7500 words whether it is for 6 points or 3, otherwise if it is 7500 words it gets 6 points any thing less than 7500 scores zero.

K.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Isn't every submission to the Novel/Novelette category supposed to be 7500 words for the contest Survivor - I'm not talking about Lit.'s regular standards, but just for the Survivor contest and that category? I was under the impression that all submissions for that category had to be 7500 or they could not be counted.

If that is the case then a story falling short of 7500 should not be scored. It doesn't meet the requirements. It should be placed in the category it fits according to its genre.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[LOAnnie2]

Isn't every submission to the Novel/Novelette category supposed to be 7500 words for the contest Survivor - I'm not talking about Lit.'s regular standards, but just for the Survivor contest and that category? I was under the impression that all submissions for that category had to be 7500 or they could not be counted.

If that is the case then a story falling short of 7500 should not be scored. It doesn't meet the requirements. It should be placed in the category it fits according to its genre.

Wait wait wait wait

So survivor contest stories in Novells and Novellas have to be 7500 words by the Survivor Rules (even though Lit doesn't require it) yet we can't increase the word count on Survivor stories because lit allows stories of 750 words?

(And yay, someone else championing my seperate category for Chapters idea. It allows those who write longer stories that might otherwise get disqualified for being chapters when they're closer to sequels to get some benefit from it).

And also this leads me to a question I've been wondering about:

Could I theoretically list more than 3 stories under a cap, such as this way?

===Non Consent (Level 1)===
(3 pts): NC Story 1
(1 pt): NC Story 2
(1 pt): NC Story 3
NC Story 4
NC Story 5

so that way if one of the first three gets disqualified I could still get my full points for the cap?

(I'm already assuming cause I know I won't reach all the cap levels, I'm very narrow in my works)

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

Box, for a score to count in the Survivor category under Novels and Novellas, it has alway been 7,500 words. Any player who submitted a story to the novel and novella category that does not match or exceed 7,500 should not be given any points.

For the record, I've always supported the idea of increasing the word count of stories from 750 to 1,500 words. Now that I see what's happening to this contest with so may players writing shitty, little nonsensical stories, just to score a point and win a few dollars, I'd like to see the word count increase from 750 to 3,000 words.

Since this is suppose to be a Survivor contest, Literotica's year long writing contest, let's make it a marathon with 3,000 word stories instead of a sprint race with 750 word stories. This way, we rid the contest of all the pretenders. If someone can't write a 3,000 word or more story, then, guess what? They aren't a writer.

Some of my posts on the forum boards have exceeded 3,000 words (lol).

Let's all work together to make the 2012 Survivor contest a better contest, rather than a contest with the same old problems and issues.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Wait wait wait wait

So survivor contest stories in Novells and Novellas have to be 7500 words by the Survivor Rules (even though Lit doesn't require it) yet we can't increase the word count on Survivor stories because lit allows stories of 750 words?

Yeah, I don't get that either. I figure if you can change it for one, why not all the rest. Yes, I know it is a lot of work, to check every story, but I don't believe the excuse "we have to keep it to the 750 word limit because that is what Lit.'s standards are" is a good one because the Novellas have to be 7500 or more - thus changing the standards for the contest. The reason should be the truth - "That's a hell of a lot of stories to check and we don't have the man power."

(And yay, someone else championing my seperate category for Chapters idea. It allows those who write longer stories that might otherwise get disqualified for being chapters when they're closer to sequels to get some benefit from it).

I'm still mixed on this. I like the idea of Chapters simply because I don't want to toss my whole Novel/Novelette up with three big submissions. I prefer to place stories (chapters) in the genre they are supposed to go in, but again I do see the point of not having chapters because what was mentioned earlier about being able to dump hundreds of "chapters" in to satisfy their point count. This one may be where we need to revert back to the "old" way of doing things.

And also this leads me to a question I've been wondering about:

Could I theoretically list more than 3 stories under a cap, such as this way?

===Non Consent (Level 1)===
(3 pts): NC Story 1
(1 pt): NC Story 2
(1 pt): NC Story 3
NC Story 4
NC Story 5

so that way if one of the first three gets disqualified I could still get my full points for the cap?

(I'm already assuming cause I know I won't reach all the cap levels, I'm very narrow in my works)

My only real question here is "Why would your other three get disqualified?" I can see listing the others just as a reference point to score if you are able to cap the other levels and open scoring up to those listed, but why assume you're going to have something disqualified?

 

[SuperHeroRalph]

I've always understood that stories posted on the regular Literotica board under novels and novellas had to be a minimum of 7,500 words.

I don't understand what the issue is suddenly.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

I've always understood that stories posted on the regular Literotica board under novels and novellas had to be a minimum of 7,500 words.

I don't understand what the issue is suddenly.

Ah, if that is the case; my apologies in regards to the whole word count changing thing. I thought it was a Survivor thing and it is a misunderstanding on my part.

 

[Kaishaku]

I've always understood that stories posted on the regular Literotica board under novels and novellas had to be a minimum of 7,500 words.

I don't understand what the issue is suddenly.

The 7500 word limit for Novels & Novellas, et. al. is simply a survivor requirement. Provided you have a complete work it can be posted in 750 word segments. It was a only a recent rule change that increased the point value and restricted the word count in this category for Survivor scoring only. I guess the number of 750 word segments or chapters is up to the individuAl writer.

K.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHairedandFriendly
Isn't every submission to the Novel/Novelette category supposed to be 7500 words for the contest Survivor - I'm not talking about Lit.'s regular standards, but just for the Survivor contest and that category? I was under the impression that all submissions for that category had to be 7500 or they could not be counted.

If that is the case then a story falling short of 7500 should not be scored. It doesn't meet the requirements. It should be placed in the category it fits according to its genre.

Wait wait wait wait

So survivor contest stories in Novells and Novellas have to be 7500 words by the Survivor Rules (even though Lit doesn't require it) yet we can't increase the word count on Survivor stories because lit allows stories of 750 words?

(And yay, someone else championing my seperate category for Chapters idea. It allows those who write longer stories that might otherwise get disqualified for being chapters when they're closer to sequels to get some benefit from it).

And also this leads me to a question I've been wondering about:

Could I theoretically list more than 3 stories under a cap, such as this way?

===Non Consent (Level 1)===
(3 pts): NC Story 1
(1 pt): NC Story 2
(1 pt): NC Story 3
NC Story 4
NC Story 5

so that way if one of the first three gets disqualified I could still get my full points for the cap?

(I'm already assuming cause I know I won't reach all the cap levels, I'm very narrow in my works)

The "Continued Story" category is still for discussion. Personally, I look askance on the idea of adding a category for the Survivors' Contest that does not exist in Literorica, but I would go along with the consensus. That's the reason for this thread.

Your example with the NC stories is valid. If you did not fill the first cap in all the categories, two of the stories would not be counted. If any two of those stories were to be disqualified, you would still have the first cap full and they would be worth five points. There is nothing specifically in the rules about it, but there is something about the order of the stories being posted is irrelevant, so three stories posted in a category and accepted would be worth five points.

The differences between requiring 7,500 words in Novels and Novellas and no particular minimum in the other thirty categories (poetry has no minimums) are that N & N entries count more than any others. It is much simpler to check the length of entries in that one category just by looking at them. If they are substantially longer than three Lit. pages, they are long enough. Otherwise, they can be checked. A 3,000 minimum is not that easy to verify because that is less than one Lit. page, and the total volume of those thirty other categories would be too much to deal with.

 

[LOAnnie2]

Quote:
. A 3,000 minimum is not that easy to verify because that is less than one Lit. page, and the total volume of those thirty other categories would be too much to deal with.

Get Word Perfect Office X5. Select all text on the story (if it's less than a page), copy it into word perfect then you hit one button and it gives you a word count. It's how I check if any of my stories are worth looking at the N&N category for.

But in all seriousness, it doesn't bother me the idea of adding a category that lit doesn't have to the survivor contest. As it already stands you say one rule has to stay the same because that's the way it is on lit (750 word minimum because lit allows that) and three that don't (chapter stories even though lit allows chapter stories, novels and novellas being 7500 words even though lit has N&N stories under 7500 words, only submitting one chapter to a chain story). So in my mind the concensus is if it helps the survivor contest it's better to break from lit's restrictions than not.

Checking a single story is not difficult, and it's how I checked the word count on the chapter posted in Novels & Novellas earlier. However, checking thirty or so every day is very time consuming.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

One of the reasons behind changing the word count in the Novels & Novellas category was because that category by definition is longer works. A 750-1000 word story is NOT a novella or novel. Nor is one that is 3500. Because of the longer required length, we made that category worth more points. You don't want someone to be able to post a story in the Lesbian category that has nothing to do with Lesbian sex and count it for Lesbian sex points so why allow someone to post a story in the novels & novellas category that isn't a novel and get points?

And yes, us moderators have repeatedly said outside of the fact that the Lit word count limit is 750 words, that trying to do a word count of every single story in the contest is way too much work. This quality vs quantity or length argument comes up every year. Word count has nothing to do with quality. You can have a crap 5000 story as easily as you can have a crap 750 word story. And the argument that Survivor dumps countless crappy stories every year is well...crap. I am not saying there aren't some but I guarantee you that more crappy stories are submitted every year from non-survivor participants than from the contest itself.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I just ran across something that has not been addressed before. What should be done about an entry in the Novels & Novellas category that does not meet the 7,500 word category? This is just a requirement for the Survivors' contest; there is no length requirement set by Lit. for an entry in the category.

There is nothing said about this in the rules, and it doesn't seem right to give no score at all for a story or chapter that is a bit short of the requirement, so I scored three points for it. Should this be SOP? It won't happen very often, but it might happen some time again.

The rule for the 2011 contest is Novel category stories must be at least 7500 words. If not, no points. So no, it doesn't get 3 points. It either meets the requirement in the rule or it doesn't count.

 

[LOAnnie2]

My only real question here is "Why would your other three get disqualified?" I can see listing the others just as a reference point to score if you are able to cap the other levels and open scoring up to those listed, but why assume you're going to have something disqualified?

Because I sometimes believe in writing sequels to stories that I don't define as chapters. Sequels are alright, chapters aren't. And given that it's gonna be up to a person to judge whether something is a sequel or a chapter I'd rather be safe than sorry. Granted, I don't expect to be placing top 5 regardless, but it could make a difference if I'm closer to 15th than not.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Because I sometimes believe in writing sequels to stories that I don't define as chapters. Sequels are alright, chapters aren't. And given that it's gonna be up to a person to judge whether something is a sequel or a chapter I'd rather be safe than sorry. Granted, I don't expect to be placing top 5 regardless, but it could make a difference if I'm closer to 15th than not.

Ah, okay. That whole sequel/chapter thing is a real pain in the arse. I like chapters so each one is placed in the right genre. One chapter in the right genre could hook a new reader - yeah, it could lose one too - but I like to remain positive.