Advice!

[alice_underneath]

OK, it isn't often that I do a massive cut and paste, and apologies to all those annoyed by such things; but here is a great article dealing with this issue from the best self-defense site I've ever seen: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/.

That was an excellent piece, Mr. Rathbone. Thank you very much for posting it.

What happened to the Waco whacko guy?

 

[3113]

Exactly the point!

But quite frankly, if you are going to strip down to your underwear while alone in a house with a group of testosterone loaded drunk men...I am not saying she asked for it, but once she got there and saw the situation, she may have wanted to rethink.

But this gets the point across in a very apt way. A submissive...or in this case, a girl in a hazing, who is suppose to be submissive to her sisters and do as she's told to prove herself, attempts to please, and TRUSTS that the situation she's being sent into is safe.

Otherwise, she wouldn't be being sent into it, right? In the sorority situation, she well might have thought that her sisters had friends at the Fraternity who knew she was coming and would look out for her. That would be a reasonable assumption--especially on the part of a new girl. She might well have assumed she'd have a rough time of it (whistles and catcalls and vulgar comments) but rape?

And any Fraternity worth it's salt would have made sure that there were responsible, sober guys there to make sure nothing untoward happened--whether or not they knew a girl was coming and going to strip down. And any Sorority worth it's salt would have...well, thought of some other hazing, but if it had to be that one, would have let someone responsible at the Fraternity know so that the girl was unmolested and got home safe OR hired their own muscle man to guard her.

I have a hard time ladeling much blame on a...what? 18 year old girl? Shy? First time away from home? On her own? Wanting friends? Told this sorority was good and safe? You see what I'm getting at? This isn't quite as it said in that very long post about responsiblity, et al, a situation where the girl went recklessly into a biker bar and decided to strip down. This was girl who thought she was doing a hazing ritual...and in that instance, she could assume that there might be safeguards in place.

The whole idea of D/s is that the sub surrenders control to the Master. Granted, the Sub is not a passive doormat and can think for themselves, and can certainly say "no." But if they can't trust the Dom's judgement, if they have to constantly "rethink" whether they should do what they've been ordered to do, why bother being in that sort of relationship at all? Or in any relationship for that matter? Even in the plainest of vanilla relationships, you'll do what your partner asks because you trust them and assume they've considered your well-being when they asked you to do what they asked you to do. If a husband tells his wife to take a certain route to someone's house, she's going to do so on the assumtion that it's down safe streets, not though a crime-ridden neighborhood.

If Jack is the Dom, then he has to think of these things and make sure the situation is safe for his sub. That's part of his job. Why he gets to be the Dom. His sub trusts him and is going to do what he tells her to do in some cases, such as this one, willingly, eagerly, even enthuiastically. It's not quite the same as the "common sense" rules put it. In this relationship, control has been transfered. And so has some responsibility.

 

[Kajira Callista]

But this gets the point across in a very apt way. A submissive...or in this case, a girl in a hazing, who is suppose to be submissive to her sisters and do as she's told to prove herself, attempts to please, and TRUSTS that the situation she's being sent into is safe.

Otherwise, she wouldn't be being sent into it, right? In the sorority situation, she well might have thought that her sisters had friends at the Fraternity who knew she was coming and would look out for her. That would be a reasonable assumption--especially on the part of a new girl. She might well have assumed she'd have a rough time of it (whistles and catcalls and vulgar comments) but rape?

And any Fraternity worth it's salt would have made sure that there were responsible, sober guys there to make sure nothing untoward happened--whether or not they knew a girl was coming and going to strip down. And any Sorority worth it's salt would have...well, thought of some other hazing, but if it had to be that one, would have let someone responsible at the Fraternity know so that the girl was unmolested and got home safe OR hired their own muscle man to guard her.

I have a hard time ladeling much blame on a...what? 18 year old girl? Shy? First time away from home? On her own? Wanting friends? Told this sorority was good and safe? You see what I'm getting at? This isn't quite as it said in that very long post about responsiblity, et al, a situation where the girl went recklessly into a biker bar and decided to strip down. This was girl who thought she was doing a hazing ritual...and in that instance, she could assume that there might be safeguards in place.

The whole idea of D/s is that the sub surrenders control to the Master. Granted, the Sub is not a passive doormat and can think for themselves, and can certainly say "no." But if they can't trust the Dom's judgement, if they have to constantly "rethink" whether they should do what they've been ordered to do, why bother being in that sort of relationship at all? Or in any relationship for that matter? Even in the plainest of vanilla relationships, you'll do what your partner asks because you trust them and assume they've considered your well-being when they asked you to do what they asked you to do. If a husband tells his wife to take a certain route to someone's house, she's going to do so on the assumtion that it's down safe streets, not though a crime-ridden neighborhood.

If Jack is the Dom, then he has to think of these things and make sure the situation is safe for his sub. That's part of his job. Why he gets to be the Dom. His sub trusts him and is going to do what he tells her to do in some cases, such as this one, willingly, eagerly, even enthuiastically. It's not quite the same as the "common sense" rules put it. In this relationship, control has been transfered. And so has some responsibility.

she has the responsibility to make sure she is safe too. and always had the option to back out if she didnt feel safe.
if you all arent into this type of play that is fine but dont overanalyze something that was fun for two ppl who wanted to do it and nothing bad happened as a result. im really getting tired of everyone elses idea of bdsm getting shoved down other ppls throats. *steps off soap box*

 

[A Desert Rose]

she has the responsibility to make sure she is safe too. and always had the option to back out if she didnt feel safe.
if you all arent into this type of play that is fine but dont overanalyze something that was fun for two ppl who wanted to do it and nothing bad happened as a result. im really getting tired of everyone elses idea of bdsm getting shoved down other ppls throats. *steps off soap box*

Very well said. But you forgot to mention "everyone else's idea (with little or no experience) of bdsm..."

 

[Netzach]

she has the responsibility to make sure she is safe too. and always had the option to back out if she didnt feel safe.
if you all arent into this type of play that is fine but dont overanalyze something that was fun for two ppl who wanted to do it and nothing bad happened as a result. im really getting tired of everyone elses idea of bdsm getting shoved down other ppls throats. *steps off soap box*

What? Do you mean that being submissive doesn't remove the part of your brain where the common sense is stored?

There go my plans.

 

[Lady Kouka]

It's surprising the various responces this thread has taken since it began and tangents it has taken along the way. Jack, your question, the way you worded and phrased it I believe was somewhat sincere, albeit misguided. You want to find ways to keep your "submissive" interested and excited, there is nothing wrong with that, it's part of what people in relationships are supposed to do, keep things alive and growing.

However, part of her thing is exhibitionism. Many have pointed out the potential risks, they are all valid, in fact, more then a probablity at times. The opposing opinion that you both are adults and can do as you please is also valid. That just because she is "teasing" doesn't mean she is "asking for it". No matter that other people may not view it that way.

The problem with sexual games like that, within the D/s community particularly, is that as her Dominant, you are placing her in potential harms way. As the Dominant, part of your job is to not only ensure her safety, but to cherish, nurture and respect her. If you were both togther in real life, and you were nearby watching all this, making sure no one attacks/hurts her, the risks involved are minimized. But you are sitting safe, sound and horny however many miles away, while she goes out flaunting her stuff.

Yes, she is an adult and can choose. Yes, she has a mind of her own to decide what she will and won't do. After so many years in the lifestyle, I do know something else though, many submissives are easily led, willing to do almost anything just to please their Dominant. Their own personal safety isn't taken into consideration, just the thrill and love of pleasing, serving their Dominant. This by no means indicates that all submissives are this way, but there are a lot of them that are.

You can not sit back and assume everything is going to be fine just because she is willing to do it. You have to take the responsibility you signed up for to make sure she is not in harm's way.

You also mention something about giving a blow job to a stranger, yet. I find that an odd thing on several levels, not just the obvious potential rape area, but the sexually transmitted diseases, the potential of family/friends finding out and the degradation you are willing to consider her going through. Not an online game in a chat room, but a real life one, where the stakes are very very high.

I'm not trying to be the moral police, different strokes for different folks. But you claim to be her Dominant, which by definition means you have to keep her safe, out of harm's way, even if what she wants and is willing to do is the thing that will do her harm. It's your job. That's part of what you signed up for. Sometimes that means thinking past your nether regions. Not giving into the lust but forcing yourself to do what's right, for her.

 

[3113]

What? Do you mean that being submissive doesn't remove the part of your brain where the common sense is stored?

Well, there's common sense and there's common sense. Common sense says that it's a pretty stupid idea to say, go snowboarding. You risk breaking bones, etc. Common sense says "why take that risk at all?"

But some do take that risk for the thrill it gives them. They ignore common sense. On the other hand, the snowboarder might not ignore the common sense of wearing a helmet to minimize injuries he may incure.

I think what's being discussed here is not about shoving an idea of BDSM down people's throats, but rather advice (requested advice) on ways of getting a thrill (snowboarding) with common sense caveats from those who know how to minimize potential injuries (wear a helmet)--so that thrilling things can be enjoyed and done again, not regretted.

Now I'm too new and ignorant to say with any certainty, but from what I've been reading, it's would seem to the Dom's job to say "Wear a helmet," when he sends his sub snowboarding. Yes? It's not that the sub's common sense is gone, but that the sub is suppose to trust that if the Dom says, "No helmet" they've a good reason for saying that.

I think the advice here is to remind Jack that if he tells his sub to do something she might do it without using her common sense because she might assume, rightly in this relationship, that he knows more than she does about what's going to happen. That, in short, he knows more about snowboarding than she does. The advice is simply to do some research about snowboarding before you send someone down a hill with no helmet.

At least, that's what I'm distilling from this thread. I could be totally off base.

 

[Kajira Callista]

What? Do you mean that being submissive doesn't remove the part of your brain where the common sense is stored?

There go my plans.

you can remove part of my brain if you want Ma'am

 

[Kajira Callista]

Very well said. But you forgot to mention "everyone else's idea (with little or no experience) of bdsm..."

hi dolly

 

[Kajira Callista]

Well, there's common sense and there's common sense. Common sense says that it's a pretty stupid idea to say, go snowboarding. You risk breaking bones, etc. Common sense says "why take that risk at all?"

But some do take that risk for the thrill it gives them. They ignore common sense. On the other hand, the snowboarder might not ignore the common sense of wearing a helmet to minimize injuries he may incure.

I think what's being discussed here is not about shoving an idea of BDSM down people's throats, but rather advice (requested advice) on ways of getting a thrill (snowboarding) with common sense caveats from those who know how to minimize potential injuries (wear a helmet)--so that thrilling things can be enjoyed and done again, not regretted.

Now I'm too new and ignorant to say with any certainty, but from what I've been reading, it's would seem to the Dom's job to say "Wear a helmet," when he sends his sub snowboarding. Yes? It's not that the sub's common sense is gone, but that the sub is suppose to trust that if the Dom says, "No helmet" they've a good reason for saying that.

I think the advice here is to remind Jack that if he tells his sub to do something she might do it without using her common sense because she might assume, rightly in this relationship, that he knows more than she does about what's going to happen. That, in short, he knows more about snowboarding than she does. The advice is simply to do some research about snowboarding before you send someone down a hill with no helmet.

At least, that's what I'm distilling from this thread. I could be totally off base.

If you dont wanna take risks then that is fine and dandy. Many of us in this world desire that risk being there. It is actually a turn on.
Do you really suppose if you tell a person who likes the thrill of the danger that it is dangerous to do something that they are not going to want to do it more? It was fun, they both got off on it and everyone is happy...so where exactly is the problem? (btw im betting his pm box is full of new and fun things he and his sub could try by now anyway)

 

[Netzach]

I don't see it as my job to run around taping foam on all the sharp objects in the world so that M doesn't bump into them.

Call me a shitty mommy if you must. I guess I don't value the nurturing portective thing as much as I do the nurturing nature of "go ahead, take a risk, survive something you are afraid of, court someone's disapproval if you must."

 

[Kajira Callista]

I don't see it as my job to run around taping foam on all the sharp objects in the world so that M doesn't bump into them.

Call me a shitty mommy if you must. I guess I don't value the nurturing portective thing as much as I do the nurturing nature of "go ahead, take a risk, survive something you are afraid of, court someone's disapproval if you must."

i would think that most subs actually look for just that in a Dominant.

 

[RJMasters]

From my 1st post - Unless you are both prepared to deal with the consequenses of what could happen, maybe you should post pone doing this sort of thing till you are both ready to accept the risks involved. Then if this is something you both decide you want to do, then good luck and I hope nothing bad happens.

From my 2nd post - If you are preapred to live with the consequences if said trouble comes, then fine...at least you know the risks.

Doesn't sound like I am saying don't do this anywhere. It does sound alot like me saying I think this kind of play can be dangerious and they should learn more about it and be ready to accept the risks involved before they continue. I don't see that as shoving my view down anyone's throat

My First piece of advice would be don't do this as IMO this type of play is too dangerious and the consequences can be to great.

My Second peice of advice, if you two are going to do this anyways, then stay clear of places that has alchol or drugs being used which can effect people's judgement. And pick places where children will not be exposed to it.

As to advice on how to go about doing what you are doing....I don't have a clue as I wouldn't ever do anything like this.

 

[Kajira Callista]

hi RJ

 

[Slutacus]

This strikes me as funny on a board where half the guys express their sexuality through power and control (and rage as well; but that's one of our closet skeletons).

In agreement! Sex is about power, rage, and control (at least the kind I like). Unk! Unk!

It was a very good article and thanks for another book reference.

 

[CuriousJack]

Well this is the last time i ever ask for advice on this bloody forum.

I hope all the people who abused me in this thread are happy, you've really put me off learning anything more about the dom/sub thing, as i'd rather not be abused the shit out of for simply asking a question.

 

[ShyGuy68]

Well this is the last time i ever ask for advice on this bloody forum.

I hope all the people who abused me in this thread are happy, you've really put me off learning anything more about the dom/sub thing, as i'd rather not be abused the shit out of for simply asking a question.

You know it's only your own fault that you got "abused". If you treat people badly like you did, you should expect to be treated that way yourself.

 

[alice_underneath]

Well this is the last time i ever ask for advice on this bloody forum.

I hope all the people who abused me in this thread are happy, you've really put me off learning anything more about the dom/sub thing, as i'd rather not be abused the shit out of for simply asking a question.

Gracious.

It's been a few days, so perhaps you have forgotten what you wrote in your initial post on this thread:

First off i want to know whether what i told her to do was any good (considering it was her 1st time doing anything like this, my 1st time ordering her and delibrately started out safe) and second off if anyone can give me some advice on what else i should get her to do.

You asked whether what you had done "was any good".

People gave you honest responses to your question. Some said ooooo that sounds hot, and some said that sounds very unsafe.

No one "abused the shit out of" you.

Sorry to say you don't get to say who posts to a thread or in what way, but more than that, your response sounds more like you want ego stroking than legitimate ideas and thoughts from people.

Indeed.