Any Christians out there?

[Recidiva]

I never even implied that my faction was the most persecuted. Someone else said that. Go back and reread the fourth page.

And I'm responding to that and other comments.

 

[satindesire]

And I'm responding to that and other comments.

So you should ask that person, not me. You quoted my saying in your passage about complaining about my scars. So I'm going to obviously think you were speaking to me.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, unfortunately a member of a group becomes subject to all the external malice and ignorance available. It reminds me of a clip from "Ghandi."

Indian guy: Are you Christian, Sahib?
Priest: Yes, yes, I'm a Christian.
Indian guy: I know a Christian. She drinks blood. The blood of Christ - every Sunday!

See, I'm not even offended by that.

I don't see why that assumption should not be made and I'm only too happy to correct it. No problem, assuming I'm talking to halfway rational people. If the assumption is that I'm cheering airstrikes it unfortunately has basis in reality. If the assumption is that I secretly run Time Warner, MSNBC and I have horns, we're on another level.

 

[Recidiva]

So you should ask that person, not me. You quoted my saying in your passage about complaining about my scars. So I'm going to obviously think you were speaking to me.

Okay. I'm really not sure what you want from me here. You've pretty much ignored my sympathy and addressed only my attempt to provide context.

So I'm out of ideas.

 

[Recidiva]

See, I'm not even offended by that.

I don't see why that assumption should not be made and I'm only too happy to correct it. No problem, assuming I'm talking to halfway rational people.

Well, I've had to deal with people wondering why I worship Xenu. I don't even know who Xenu is.

 

[WriterDom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach
The persecution thing seems more like "everyone has to be really really politically correct to us toooooo even if we're the majority of every single institution in the US."


I wouldn't call it persecution but it is politically correct to hurl any insult or joke at Christianity. Better yet if they are Southerners. Then the jokes don't even have to be religious based. I'm not that sensitive to it because I've been exposed to it forever. I'm not bitter. I cling to my guns because I've had one since I was 12.

 

[Recidiva]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach
The persecution thing seems more like "everyone has to be really really politically correct to us toooooo even if we're the majority of every single institution in the US."


I wouldn't call it persecution but it is politically correct to hurl any insult or joke at Christianity. Better yet if they are Southerners. Then the jokes don't even have to be religious based. I'm not that sensitive to it because I've been exposed to it forever. I'm not bitter. I cling to my guns because I've had one since I was 12.

I don't think it's politically correct. And my family's Southern.

I try to stand up for what I believe and I'll discuss it freely. I'll get insults as well as praise hurled.

Putting anything out there will do that for you. It's why many people choose to conceal their faith, I'm just not one of them.

I'm sure you garner support as well from having it known that you're Christian, and that's the good bit.

If I kept it all inside I would be afraid of the bad, but I'd never see the good in people that defend me or take the time to listen. So it's been worth the spattered mud.

 

[satindesire]

Okay. I'm really not sure what you want from me here. You've pretty much ignored my sympathy and addressed only my attempt to provide context.

So I'm out of ideas.

I'm not meaning to sound rude, honey, or that I don't appreciate your sympathy, and I am really really sorry that I've given you that idea. I didn't mean to upset you and for that I sincerely apologize!

I rarely EVER get genuinely upset during these kinds of discussions, and if my posts made you think that I was upset or mad at you, I'm very sorry for that too.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not meaning to sound rude, honey, or that I don't appreciate your sympathy, and I am really really sorry that I've given you that idea. I didn't mean to upset you and for that I sincerely apologize!

I rarely EVER get genuinely upset during these kinds of discussions, and if my posts made you think that I was upset or mad at you, I'm very sorry for that too.

Woot!

Good. I really am trying to sympathize. I'm not upset, just wanted to make sure if it all possible I could yank on the reins and not go any further off course than I'd appeared to go. Pull over and check the map so to speak.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes - it's made a huge impact in that I won't play or have sex until I'm married. After that, I don't believe God cares what I do sexually with my husband, as long as it's just the two of us.

As far as the hypocrite thing goes, I've tried for years to love my neighbor. Problem is, when that neighbor finds out you're a Christian, he accuses you of judging him, when you have done nothing but be his friend. Talk about judging Christians! And that's all I'll say since it's pretty clear that most everything in life is tolerated except for Christians.

If you belong to James Dobson's Focus on the Family group, then yes - that fact alone would be enough for me to judge you in a very negative way.

On the other hand, if you belong to my neighborhood Episcopal church, an organization that routinely galvanizes and organizes its members in working to oppose injustice, bigotry, poverty, and so on, then you'll have my respect.

"Christian" tells me nothing. In the first place, I've never met two Christians who believe the exact same thing. Everyone picks and chooses and self-formulates their own religious perspective, which is, of course, their right.

Whatever you imagine God to be, and whatever rules you place on your sexual self - those things are your own business. It's what you do in relation to society as a whole that frames my opinion of your character.

 

[satindesire]

Woot!

Good. I really am trying to sympathize. I'm not upset, just wanted to make sure if it all possible I could yank on the reins and not go any further off course than I'd appeared to go. Pull over and check the map so to speak.

I appreciate that very much sweetheart. I was never upset AT YOU or anything. I just get so sad when I see people saying that one certain group of people shouldn't be treated fairly because of one reason or another. It just really boils my hamster.

 

[Netzach]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach
The persecution thing seems more like "everyone has to be really really politically correct to us toooooo even if we're the majority of every single institution in the US."


I wouldn't call it persecution but it is politically correct to hurl any insult or joke at Christianity. Better yet if they are Southerners. Then the jokes don't even have to be religious based. I'm not that sensitive to it because I've been exposed to it forever. I'm not bitter. I cling to my guns because I've had one since I was 12.

A Catholic Priest, a Baptist Minister and a Rabbi are friends. They get together every Monday and golf and take walks and debate the philosophies of their respective faiths and generally don't get too heated.

One day the Minister hits a ball off into the perimeter of the course and they all have to go hunt for it. When they do, they spy a bear chilling out on a small ridge a few yards away, just catching some rays.

"I know" says the Priest, "let's have a contest and determine this once and for all! Whoever can convert that bear must have the true faith."

"We don't even convert" says the Rabbi.

"Aw come on, just this once" says the Minister.

"Eh, this once, I'll try it."

The Priest decides he wants to go first. He goes off for about a half hour. They're a bit worried, but he comes back, serene and fairly pleased looking.

"How did it go?"

"Oh it went well. I explained the Catechism, taught him the Lord's Prayer and the rosary and explained the necessity of confession. He's chosen Francis Xavier for his communion name and we're going to get together on Sunday. He'll make a fine Catholic."

The minister looks a bit ticked off and says "Let me in there!"

He goes off and it's about an hour. They're getting genuinely worried. Finally the minister comes back, looking moved, sweaty, and a little smug.

"Oh it was glorious! The bear walked with me down to the water. I laid my hands on him. I drove Satan out of the bear, and the spirit of the LORD was upon him! I baptized brother bear in the water, and he went off a born anew, carrying the word wide and far."

The rabbi shrugs. He says "I'll see what I can do."

Two hours later the others give up on him. They find Rabbi Shlomo mauled in the leg, he'll be ok but it's going to be a long, arduous recovery. "What happened, Shlomo, what?"

"Oy it was going so well. I get there the bear says "what's with those two?"

"I say I dunno. Here's how we do it."

"Ok, I'm listening. This better be good."

"Well, there's one God. Just one, no sons, nothing."

"Ok, one I can handle, kinda like that Great Spirit thing those other guys are always on about?."

"Eh, a little. Sort of. And you can't eat pork or shellfish."

"What about salmon?"

"Salmon, all you want."

"All I want? I'm in!"

"You sure?"

"I am so in!"

They all look at each other. "He didn't talk to us." Said the Minister. "What happened?"

"Well" said Rabbi Shlomo - that all went. The circumcision, on the other hand, not so good!"

 

[Recidiva]

I appreciate that very much sweetheart. I was never upset AT YOU or anything. I just get so sad when I see people saying that one certain group of people shouldn't be treated fairly because of one reason or another. It just really boils my hamster.

I know that's an expression of dismay, but that makes me laugh.

I wasn't justifying unfair treatment in any way, so we're good. I was just disagreeing that it's universally held by all that it's "okay" to pick on a Christian.

I've experienced a ton of ignorance and silliness and even cruelty from lots of quarters of the human spectrum. I've never used it to justify making an individual responsible for more than their own actions.

I do occasionally ask people why they support this or that, but that's because I genuinely want to know, not because I'm looking for "ammunition." And my arguments against the logic or practicality of something come from my love of logic and practicality and shouldn't be taken personally.

 

[Netzach]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach
The persecution thing seems more like "everyone has to be really really politically correct to us toooooo even if we're the majority of every single institution in the US."


I wouldn't call it persecution but it is politically correct to hurl any insult or joke at Christianity. Better yet if they are Southerners. Then the jokes don't even have to be religious based. I'm not that sensitive to it because I've been exposed to it forever. I'm not bitter. I cling to my guns because I've had one since I was 12.

My clique is the most liberal media loving group of secular humanists in the world and we have one unspoken law about jokes. If it's not YOUR tribe it's off limits. Those with redneck roots among us get to make those jokes only.

When it comes to my own family, whose PC quotient is negative - you'd think WASPS and shiksas and whatnot would be the ongoing brunts of jokes told by Jews, or even Poles, you'd think we'd LOVE Polish jokes. Or maybe, conversely, blacks, someone else to beat up on and my family are pretty racist - Nope, not that either. Jew jokes go into the catalogue.

My hunch is that a lot of redneck jokes and jokes dependent on thinking Baptists really insane have their origins among WASPS rather than among Jews, blacks, Italians, and the typical brunts.

The only real vitriol I've ever seen has been in the GLBT community. And frankly I'm not going to tell those people not to be fed the flying fuck up and done with nice. How poilte are you supposed to be with members of the same institutions that are calling actively for your destruction daily? At a certain point you need to change your club membership for me to think you really mean you don't think the way the rest of them do. And if you don't feel that way, but love giving them your money, um, hello?

It's a big club, there are lot of options, tons of Churches, thousands of variations.

 

[MisterSir]

My sample of my Jesus fish being stolen off my cars is just a small taste of what I've gone through in this town.

Doing my best to not sound judgemental, why do you put a Jesus fish on your car anyway? I'm legitimately curious, is it just a sign advertising your religion?

 

[JMohegan]

Oklahoma is part of a geographical region characterized by widespread beliefs in Biblical Christianity and Evangelical Protestantism known as the "Bible Belt". Spanning the Southeastern United States, the area is known for politically and socially conservative views.

Tulsa, the state's second largest city, home to Oral Roberts University, is considered an apex of the region and is known as one of the "buckles of the Bible Belt".

According to the Pew Research Center, the majority of Oklahoma's religious adherents — 85 percent — are Christian, accounting for about 80 percent of the population.

The percentage of Oklahomans affiliated with Catholicism is half of the national average, while the percentage affiliated with Evangelical Protestantism is more than twice the national average — tied with Arkansas for the largest percentage of any state.

The fish stealers are surely annoying, but apparently not widespread.

 

[satindesire]

Doing my best to not sound judgemental, why do you put a Jesus fish on your car anyway? I'm legitimately curious, is it just a sign advertising your religion?

Why? Because it's cute and I like the way they look.

And yes, it is a sign displaying that I am a Christian.

The fish stealers are surely annoying, but apparently not widespread.

Hopefully not. Although I will say that Muskogee has a shocking number of non-Christian people my own age. Many of which I went to school with, it seems. *eyeroll*

I was in Teens for Christ when I was in high school and we were treated so badly we had to eat lunch in the Sociology room because the kids in the cafeteria were just chomping at the bit to fight with us. The teachers couldn't do a damn thing about it except to suspend the ones fighting, which didn't do a lick of good.

 

[Recidiva]

The only real vitriol I've ever seen has been in the GLBT community. And frankly I'm not going to tell those people not to be fed the flying fuck up and done with nice.

I do remember my encounter with that too. I would go with my gay guy friends and hang out at a gay club where I was part of a lip synch group with them for fun.

I remember hearing "What the fuck, seriously, she's a breeder? But she seems so nice."

I didn't do much more than laugh and apologize and show a picture of my daughter.

Not much point in taking offense there. They chose to dub me honorably gay person so they wouldn't have to deal with me and that issue. I guess nobody wanted to explain me to anyone else.

But nobody told the male strippers, who figured I was lesbian and let me oil them up for the show. Not bad.

 

[satindesire]

I do remember my encounter with that too. I would go with my gay guy friends and hang out at a gay club where I was part of a lip synch group with them for fun.

I remember hearing "What the fuck, seriously, she's a breeder? But she seems so nice."

I didn't do much more than laugh and apologize and show a picture of my daughter.

Not much point in taking offense there. They chose to dub me honorably gay person so they wouldn't have to deal with me and that issue. I guess nobody wanted to explain me to anyone else.

But nobody told the male strippers, who figured I was lesbian and let me oil them up for the show. Not bad.

A BREEDER?! Christ on a Cracker, that's mean.

 

[Recidiva]

Hopefully not. Although I will say that Muskogee has a shocking number of non-Christian people my own age. Many of which I went to school with, it seems. *eyeroll*

I was in Teens for Christ when I was in high school and we were treated so badly we had to eat lunch in the Sociology room because the kids in the cafeteria were just chomping at the bit to fight with us. The teachers couldn't do a damn thing about it except to suspend the ones fighting, which didn't do a lick of good.

What's a shocking number of non-Christians?

 

[Netzach]

Why? Because it's cute and I like the way they look.

And yes, it is a sign displaying that I am a Christian.



Hopefully not. Although I will say that Muskogee has a shocking number of non-Christian people my own age. Many of which I went to school with, it seems. *eyeroll*

I was in Teens for Christ when I was in high school and we were treated so badly we had to eat lunch in the Sociology room because the kids in the cafeteria were just chomping at the bit to fight with us. The teachers couldn't do a damn thing about it except to suspend the ones fighting, which didn't do a lick of good.

See I also have the perspective of the weird cultural-religio phenomenon wherein all I have to do is pop out of a designated womb. The kids beating you up *are* in fact Christian, most likely, albeit not actively practicing. They don't like how much you practice, why you do, how you do, or something, but chances are allll these people go to weddings and funerals in churches of some kind or another.

 

[Netzach]

I do remember my encounter with that too. I would go with my gay guy friends and hang out at a gay club where I was part of a lip synch group with them for fun.

I remember hearing "What the fuck, seriously, she's a breeder? But she seems so nice."

I didn't do much more than laugh and apologize and show a picture of my daughter.

Not much point in taking offense there. They chose to dub me honorably gay person so they wouldn't have to deal with me and that issue. I guess nobody wanted to explain me to anyone else.

But nobody told the male strippers, who figured I was lesbian and let me oil them up for the show. Not bad.

I think those are partly hazing things. Some people are really that weird, and some guys are really that sexist that you think they're gay more to avoid vagina than get dick, but for most people it's a hazing thing. If you get really bent out of shape, you are not of tough enough stuff to hold up to the bitchiness of queens.

When I said vitriol I meant a lot of people's reactions to the mere word "Christian."

I don't know what people *really* think of me, but when M points me out as his wife I'm usually adopted as the coolest thing that ever was.

 

[JMohegan]

Hopefully not. Although I will say that Muskogee has a shocking number of non-Christian people my own age. Many of which I went to school with, it seems. *eyeroll*

I was in Teens for Christ when I was in high school and we were treated so badly we had to eat lunch in the Sociology room because the kids in the cafeteria were just chomping at the bit to fight with us. The teachers couldn't do a damn thing about it except to suspend the ones fighting, which didn't do a lick of good.

Oh yes, it's "shocking" when people resist the dominant culture. Eyeroll indeed.

 

[Recidiva]

I think those are partly hazing things. Some people are really that weird, and some guys are really that sexist that you think they're gay more to avoid vagina than get dick, but for most people it's a hazing thing. If you get really bent out of shape, you are not of tough enough stuff to hold up to the bitchiness of queens.

I agree. I have a history much more of "passing" in social groups as whatever. I have a talent for mimicry and accents so I can look like I belong almost anywhere you put me with practice.

It just goes to show that being a member of a minority group does not make you more understanding or tolerant. Alas.

 

[rosco rathbone]

You stole my Jesus Fish! [/puddy]