Any Christians out there?

[Recidiva]

When I said vitriol I meant a lot of people's reactions to the mere word "Christian."

I don't know what people *really* think of me, but when M points me out as his wife I'm usually adopted as the coolest thing that ever was.

The most vitriol toward Christians I've seen come from the Pagan community.

And if you're one of those people who personally remember the burning times, it's sorta...intense.

 

[Netzach]

The most vitriol toward Christians I've seen come from the Pagan community.

And if you're one of those people who personally remember the burning times, it's sorta...intense.

I've also gotten the "you killed the Goddess" thing out of that demo sometimes. Ick.

 

[Recidiva]

You stole my Jesus Fish! [/puddy]

When I see a Jesus Fish I just think of it as a sideways Yoni.

It makes me smile.

I always think "I'm Christian! I am using a sideways fertility symbol! Ask me about sex!"

It's just kinda funny. Sorta like when Easter Eggs are given out at Easter. "Here kids! Have a fertility symbol! Ask me about sex!"

 

[WriterDom]

My clique is the most liberal media loving group of secular humanists in the world and we have one unspoken law about jokes. If it's not YOUR tribe it's off limits. Those with redneck roots among us get to make those jokes only.

When it comes to my own family, whose PC quotient is negative - you'd think WASPS and shiksas and whatnot would be the ongoing brunts of jokes told by Jews, or even Poles, you'd think we'd LOVE Polish jokes. Or maybe, conversely, blacks, someone else to beat up on and my family are pretty racist - Nope, not that either. Jew jokes go into the catalogue.

My hunch is that a lot of redneck jokes and jokes dependent on thinking Baptists really insane have their origins among WASPS rather than among Jews, blacks, Italians, and the typical brunts.

The only real vitriol I've ever seen has been in the GLBT community. And frankly I'm not going to tell those people not to be fed the flying fuck up and done with nice. How poilte are you supposed to be with members of the same institutions that are calling actively for your destruction daily? At a certain point you need to change your club membership for me to think you really mean you don't think the way the rest of them do. And if you don't feel that way, but love giving them your money, um, hello?

It's a big club, there are lot of options, tons of Churches, thousands of variations.

I wasn't really talking about jokes per say among people, but rather what's considered fair game on television and what's off limits. There are no consequences to making fun of southerners while with other "groups" such things would be hate speech. Career ending stuff. And could get you killed in some circles. I won't say their name, but they fly planes into buildings.

My favorite joke is from the Presbyterian minister in "A river runs through it."

When someone brings up Methodists he calls them "Baptists who can read."

Now that's humor.

 

[JMohegan]

You stole my Jesus Fish! [/puddy]

I've got this image in my head of a giant wall in an Oral Roberts frat house, all covered in stolen fish.

And females tapping their feet indignantly on the front steps, demanding return of the fish and fuming at the request for physical favors in exchange.

 

[satindesire]

What's a shocking number of non-Christians?

Well, in the town I lived in when I was in High School, very few kids my age called themselves Christians, went to church, celebrated religious holidays in a religious way (Christmas was about presents, not about Jesus, et al) or were very nice to Christian kids like the TFC group I was in. So, that's pretty shocking to me, since Oklahoma is in the middle of the bible belt.

See I also have the perspective of the weird cultural-religio phenomenon wherein all I have to do is pop out of a designated womb. The kids beating you up *are* in fact Christian, most likely, albeit not actively practicing. They don't like how much you practice, why you do, how you do, or something, but chances are allll these people go to weddings and funerals in churches of some kind or another.

Going to a church to celebrate a wedding doesn't designate someone as Christian, honestly, does it?! I thought you had to believe in God the Father/Jesus as the Son of God/Crucifixion/Resurrection/ and actually Love and want to Emulate God (ie be a good, kind and giving person, keep the commandments, etc etc) to be a Christian??

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe someone that loves Jesus and tries to emulate God would beat up a 15 year old girl on her way home from school because she goes to church on Sundays.

Oh yes, it's "shocking" when people resist the dominant culture. Eyeroll indeed.

That was heartless and unkind. Thanks for that.

 

[Recidiva]

I wasn't really talking about jokes per say among people, but rather what's considered fair game on television and what's off limits. There are no consequences to making fun of southerners while with other "groups" such things would be hate speech. Career ending stuff. And could get you killed in some circles. I won't say their name, but they fly planes into buildings.

My favorite joke is from the Presbyterian minister in "A river runs through it."

When someone brings up Methodists he calls them "Baptists who can read."

Now that's humor.

Well, let's face it, being American can get planes into buildings. At least you're male.

I see that fat people and the mentally challenged and the sexually "different" are much more easily ridiculed without anyone defending them.

I rarely see that "nobody's around" to defend a Christian.

But that's more my personal perception of who I think is the most disenfranchised in this society.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've got this image in my head of a giant wall in an Oral Roberts frat house, all covered in stolen fish.

And females tapping their feet indignantly on the front steps, demanding return of the fish and fuming at the request for physical favors in exchange.

I have an Oral Roberts U. ballcap. I wear it all the time. Ironically.

 

[MisterSir]

Why? Because it's cute and I like the way they look.

And yes, it is a sign displaying that I am a Christian.

Works for me. Like I said, I was curious because I've wondered before and never been in a position to ask why.

 

[JMohegan]

That was heartless and unkind. Thanks for that.

You're the one who said it, not me.

 

[satindesire]

You're the one who said it, not me.

I didn't imply that they were breaking my nose because I was forcing them to be Christian.

YOU were.

Works for me. Like I said, I was curious because I've wondered before and never been in a position to ask why.

Glad to help sweetheart.

 

[JMohegan]

I have an Oral Roberts U. ballcap. I wear it all the time. Ironically.

And yet you wander around NYC without incident. Right?

Where the heck did you get it?

 

[Netzach]

Well, in the town I lived in when I was in High School, very few kids my age called themselves Christians, went to church, celebrated religious holidays in a religious way (Christmas was about presents, not about Jesus, et al) or were very nice to Christian kids like the TFC group I was in. So, that's pretty shocking to me, since Oklahoma is in the middle of the bible belt.




Going to a church to celebrate a wedding doesn't designate someone as Christian, honestly, does it?! I thought you had to believe in God the Father/Jesus as the Son of God/Crucifixion/Resurrection/ and actually Love and want to Emulate God (ie be a good, kind and giving person, keep the commandments, etc etc) to be a Christian??

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe someone that loves Jesus and tries to emulate God would beat up a 15 year old girl on her way home from school because she goes to church on Sundays.

If you think Christianity is limited only those those who are practicing and those who are doing so in a good way you're missing the ethnic component that includes the very definition for a lot of non-Christians.

M is an atheist, but he was raised by Methodist/Lutherans. Sorry duder, no matter what you do, from where I sit you're Christian. Your worldview is going to come out of that even if it's entirely in opposition to it.

 

[satindesire]

It's not meant to be heartless and unkind nor a dis on anything - if you think Christianity is limited only those those who are practicing and those who are doing so in a good way you're missing the ethnic component that includes the very definition for a lot of non-Christians.

So tell me what I'm missing then because I am seriously confused here.

I don't think that just because you're born in a community or even a FAMILY that calls themself a Christian that you're automatically a Christian. I must be dense, what am I not getting?

 

[JMohegan]

I didn't imply that they were breaking my nose because I was forcing them to be Christian.

YOU were.



Glad to help sweetheart.

No one said anything about nose breaking and no one said anything about force.

The fact that you're reacting this way shows that you have no idea what it's like to live as a minority in an overwhelmingly majority culture. Which is, essentially, my point.

 

[Netzach]

And yet you wander around NYC without incident. Right?

Hipster irony.

Now I better hide or I'll get my ass kicked for that, in a non SM way.

 

[Netzach]

So tell me what I'm missing then because I am seriously confused here.

I don't think that just because you're born in a community or even a FAMILY that calls themself a Christian that you're automatically a Christian. I must be dense, what am I not getting?

That you are.

You're not a Jew. You're not a Hindu. Unless you do some active act of conversion. You're not necessarily a good Christian nor even one who knows anything about their own religion. But if you're one of the majority of only semi-engaged people in the US who show up for weddings and funerals at churches, whose ecumenical collegiate pastor actually works for you, then you're census Christian and your reality and that of Hindus, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Ba'hai and "what the fuck is that?" are different.

I'm talking about this in a census capacity. Although my personal ideology is kinda of taken off the buffet of zen buddhism and tao, I would never actually consider myself those things in a census.

 

[satindesire]

No one said anything about nose breaking and no one said anything about force.

The fact that you're reacting this way shows that you have no idea what it's like to live as a minority in an overwhelmingly majority culture. Which is, essentially, my point.

Well, I think you're a jerk. I don't know what it's like to live as a minority because I'm Caucasian, Christian and middle class. Whoops for me to be BORN in a way I cannot control. You implied that the kids that were cruel to my friends and myself were simply 'resisting' a norm. No, they were not. They were cruel because they wanted to be, they WANTED to be. There's no excuse for that level of physical and verbal abuse that we got in school. We weren't doing anything bad to those kids. We were just little teenagers who were passionate about our religion! After seven years the TFC group voluntarily broke up so that they'd stop being harassed so much in their own freaking school.

Go ahead and get on your high horse and pretend you know what happened. You DON'T. You weren't there, you didn't know the kind of shit I saw. My best friend was attacked in the HALL between classes, asshat, because she was in the same group as me. Did she deserve that because she was a certain faith? Because she was part of the norm?! What the hell is wrong with you!?

That you are.

You're not a Jew. You're not a Hindu. Unless you do some active act of conversion.

I'm talking about this in a census capacity. Although my personal ideology is kinda of taken off the buffet of zen buddhism and tao, I would never actually consider myself those things in a census.

So you don't have to believe in something to be part of that faith?!

I had no idea. I thought you had to actually believe in Christianity to be a Christian.

 

[Recidiva]

Well, in the town I lived in when I was in High School, very few kids my age called themselves Christians, went to church, celebrated religious holidays in a religious way (Christmas was about presents, not about Jesus, et al) or were very nice to Christian kids like the TFC group I was in. So, that's pretty shocking to me, since Oklahoma is in the middle of the bible belt.

Going to a church to celebrate a wedding doesn't designate someone as Christian, honestly, does it?! I thought you had to believe in God the Father/Jesus as the Son of God/Crucifixion/Resurrection/ and actually Love and want to Emulate God (ie be a good, kind and giving person, keep the commandments, etc etc) to be a Christian??

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe someone that loves Jesus and tries to emulate God would beat up a 15 year old girl on her way home from school because she goes to church on Sundays.

That was heartless and unkind. Thanks for that.

Logic doesn't have much to do with hate being defended by faith.

It's hard to believe someone bombing an abortion clinic either who is a follower of Jesus. But that's invariably who bombs clinics.

What surprises me is you see only the good of your faith and refuse to admit (even as a side effect) the bad part of what happens when faith is subverted.

There are negative aspects to Christianity, thoughts that some Christians are prone to believe and can be preyed upon by the unscrupulous. Some of those people make it out into the world and do harm.

You're not responsible for them, no. But are you even aware of them? Can you really blame people for holding a group responsible for what's considered exclusively a Christian activity?

This is not to pin you to a board and make you squeal. It's an observation that you appear to be sheltered and think everything is perfectly good and right in the world of perceived Christendom.

 

[JMohegan]

That you are.

You're not a Jew. You're not a Hindu. Unless you do some active act of conversion.

I'm talking about this in a census capacity. Although my personal ideology is kinda of taken off the buffet of zen buddhism and tao, I would never actually consider myself those things in a census.

As an agnostic who was raised sans religion of any kind, I really object to the idea that you HAVE to be SOMETHING.

 

[rosco rathbone]

And yet you wander around NYC without incident. Right?

Where the heck did you get it?

The Oral Roberts U. website online store, of course!

 

[JMohegan]

Well, I think you're a jerk. I don't know what it's like to live as a minority because I'm Caucasian, Christian and middle class. Whoops for me to be BORN in a way I cannot control. You implied that the kids that were cruel to my friends and myself were simply 'resisting' a norm. No, they were not. They were cruel because they wanted to be, they WANTED to be. There's no excuse for that level of physical and verbal abuse that we got in school. We weren't doing anything bad to those kids. We were just little teenagers who were passionate about our religion! After seven years the TFC group voluntarily broke up so that they'd stop being harassed so much in their own freaking school.

Go ahead and get on your high horse and pretend you know what happened. You DON'T. You weren't there, you didn't know the kind of shit I saw. My best friend was attacked in the HALL between classes, asshat, because she was in the same group as me. Did she deserve that because she was a certain faith? Because she was part of the norm?! What the hell is wrong with you!?

This is quite a string of ad hominem attacks.

If and when you calm down and become interested in discussion, let me know.

 

[satindesire]

Logic doesn't have much to do with hate being defended by faith.

It's hard to believe someone bombing an abortion clinic either who is a follower of Jesus. But that's invariably who bombs clinics.

What surprises me is you see only the good of your faith and refuse to admit (even as a side effect) the bad part of what happens when faith is subverted.

There are negative aspects to Christianity, thoughts that some Christians are prone to believe and can be preyed upon by the unscrupulous. Some of those people make it out into the world and do harm.

You're not responsible for them, no. But are you even aware of them? Can you really blame people for holding a group responsible for what's considered exclusively a Christian activity?

This is not to pin you to a board and make you squeal. It's an observation that you appear to be sheltered and think everything is perfectly good and right in the world of perceived Christendom.

I don't really know where you got that idea from, that I only see the good in it. I know there are bad people out there calling themselves Christians that do terrible things. I don't have my head stuck in the sand. I also don't think that Muslim people who kill others for 'the sake of their beliefs' are really Muslims...evil people will use the guise of anything to do evil things.

What I am objecting to...and what I have been objecting to this whole thread, is the automatic belief that so many people seem to have that all Christians should be painted with the same brush, and therefore deserve the same treatment as the BAD PEOPLE who, calling themselves Christian, did bad things.

I don't think that's sheltered, although that's just my opinion. I think that rejecting the idea that logical, thinking, good hearted people wouldn't do terrible things in the name of their religion is a good personality trait to have. If I believed that these murderers were REALLY part of the religion I shared, or the religion that other people have, then I would totally lose my faith in all of humanity and all religion. I'd have no reason to believe that what path I was on was the right path.

This is quite a string of ad hominem attacks.

If and when you calm down and become interested in discussion, let me know.

You are the third person on the BDSM board to enjoy the silence of my ignore list. When YOU get over your blinders and stop being so spiteful when it's not necessary, let ME know.

 

[JMohegan]

The Oral Roberts U. website online store, of course!

Haha - of course!

 

[00Syd]

As an agnostic who was raised sans religion of any kind, I really object to the idea that you HAVE to be SOMETHING.

There is also the cultural aspect of it. Religiously I was raised agnostic but culturally I was raised Jewish, and my family is Jewish, so that's who I identify with even though I don't believe in god.

Unless the kids at satindesire's high school were actively Atheist or something else, I'd assume that if asked what they were they would ID as Christian because that's how they were raised and that's what their family is.

Although the culture/religion gap does seem to be wider in Christianity than in Judaism.