Anyone out there who is into BDSM but your partner/spouse is NOT?

[Johnny Mayberry]

Oh, just go and cheat on your SO...being a worthless, lying, cheating slimeball is what BDSM is all about, right?

 

[Pure]

I think the point here is a lot less dramatic than Johnny M makes it: one's character (including honesty, etc.) and one's favorite perversions are two completely separate issues (with a couple standard qualifications, such as that the perversion is not sadistic murder; pedophilia, etc....). There are dishonest 'vanilla' folks, as well as dishonest pervs; and the same for exploitation of the partner.

How, if at all, to integrate a perverse taste into a marriage is, in fact a complicated issue. There's something to be said for 'Let it all hang out' and 'See if you can get your spouse in on it.'

Just as there's something to be said for 'Talk out every problem with your spouse, and if something too big cannot be settled, then propose a separation."

It should be remembered, Francisco, that consequences attach to all available alternatives. For instance, as you say, occasionally a women who's taken a secret lover gets murdered. It's also true that your 'recommended' path is sometimes followed: occasionally a faithful woman says to hubby, "Let's go our separate ways," separates, quite openly starts a new relationship..... and gets murdered.

So I'd like to hear not just an ideal formula for 'handling a marital sexual difference (in tastes)' but actual experiences and admittedly partial or not-so-good solutions, besides the wonderfully apt, morally correct, and satisfying-for-all solutions that some posters here have found (taking their word for it).

J.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Let me rephrase...Instead of working within your marriage, or getting out of your marriage, you should think with your genitals...after all, sexual satisfaction justifies any lies or deciet you may come up with. If you are kinky, it is ok to cheat on your spouse, right Pure?

 

[Pure]

Hi Johnny,
I'm not telling anyone what to do, how to conduct themselves, including extramarital contacts--as I've specified, be they virtual or r.l.; and if r.l., sexual or not, intercourse or not. I asked about what was actually happening, as problems are dealt with, perhaps in a less than ideal fashion.

If someone wants your opinion on their morals--whether they are 'slimeballs' or not-- I'm sure they'll ask.

J.

 

[Lady Emerald]

Oh my goodness!!!!! I can see a lot of people feel very passionately about this topic. I suppose we all bring our own pasts, our own experiences, and our own betrayals or disappointments to bear on this discussion. I am interested in what people are doing or feeling to reconcile the different aspects of their lives.
Because we explore things in discussion--on the boards, because we can say "what if...." does not mean people are cheating. I guess folk who are into BDSM and live the lifestyle are going to be like any other group of folk---from the fundamentalist to the liberal and everything in between.
Being married to and having a family with someone who does not now share one's sexual proclivities is only a dilemma for those of us who value what we have in our c urrent relationships and families. If I didn't love my husband or care about the impact of a breakup (for my own sexual satisfaction) on our children--it would be so simple and straightforward, get a divorce immediately. Most lives, I believe, are more complex, most people have grey areas---what else is compromise? one of the cornerstones of democrtic negotiation?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

They get my advice free of charge...they ought to pay you not to share your views, frankly. Isn't fucking up your own marriage enough?

 

[Lady Emerald]

When I posed the question that started this thread it was with the idea of inviting people in similar situations to share thoughts, feelings and/or experiences if they wished. i would like to keep that open feeling here and not condemn individual contributors in a personal way........Lets keep the flow.....

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

When I posed the question that started this thread it was with the idea of inviting people in similar situations to share thoughts, feelings and/or experiences if they wished. i would like to keep that open feeling here and not condemn individual contributors in a personal way........Lets keep the flow.....

Party pooper...

 

[Lady Emerald]

----just thought you might be the kind of guy who would love someone to poop on your party!

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

----just thought you might be the kind of guy who would love someone to poop on your party!

HEY!! The only person doing the pooping around here is me...





...oh, wait, that's not right...

 

[redelicious]

Maybe someone needs an enema?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Maybe someone needs an enema?

How would you like to suck my balls?!?

 

[redelicious]

How would you like to suck my balls?!?

Depends...

Where have they been?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Depends...

Where have they been?

The important question is, where have they NOT been? Specifically, they have never been to the doctor to be treated for any nasty diseases...*relieved sigh*

 

[Lady Emerald]

Johnny, I'm so happy for you! Did Red. do the deed for you. Hope you didn't do any more pooping though!!

 

[Venomous Rain]

sublimate it (write stories, etc.)

I suppose this is the option I have taken. And as far as online relationships, it's also considered cheating for us since we met online.

Don't get me wrong, we have an otherwise perfect relationship. We understand each other deeply and as I posted before at times he tries in our love making to dominate me but we all know you have to be a true Dom at heart.

 

[James G 5]

Ok, one comment on the derail, THEN back to the thread topic

There is a HUGE difference in essential honesty and total honesty
Pure commented on all relationships being built on deceits
I am a HUGE believer in openess and honesty IN MOST THINGS
But there is a major difference in answering "Does this dress make me look fat?" It's not the dress, bitch! and saying "Honey, I'm going bowling" when you're really about to go fuck her best friend
Like most things, there're different levels of acceptability
As Catalina noted (and gods know Catalina & I have tussled over acceptable risk on some other issues), there are enormous personal and emotional risks involved in cheating on a spouse, to the point that it generally crosses the "acceptable risk" threshold (all issues of other morality other than Heinlein's base of "personal survival" aside), especially if kids are involved

I have known several women who found themselves in the position of discovering or admitting to a deep desire for BDSM
They've handled it in different ways
A few have approached their husbands and been roundly denied
At that point, a few broke the marriage off and a few of the others entered in to affairs
The ones that entered in to affairs were either eventually caught, ending the marriage in every case, or ended the marriage due to the strain of the double life, or in a few cases got the "kink" out of their system/decided BDSM wasn't for them and went back to their 'nilla lives with their hubbies none the wiser
One of the ladies in that situation carried it on for 11 YEARS, managing to maintain it until her kids were old enough to be OK when the marriage ended...but her husband made her life hell & ended up comitting suicide because of the mental strain it caused him to know he'd been cuckolded so long
Another carried on for a few years and finally let her husband in on BDSM, with him becoming her Dom without knowing what she'd been doing, but by then it wasn't enough for her and she left him anyway

I really, truly believe that a sincere desire for, and interest in, BDSM play is either part of you, or not
Some might have it more strongly or wish to carry it to a greater depth than others
But those without it wil never be able to do more than occasionaly or listlessly roleplay it
There's a good book called "When Someone You Love is Kinky" by Easton & Lizt that addresses discussing this issue and finding balance when a 'nilla partner isn't in to it...they deal with the 'nilla partner issue in both "The Topping Book" and "The Bottoming Book" as well
They all say that if someone REALLY isn't in to it, you can't MAKE them be
If you really have the desire and your partner doesn't, you can't make him feel it and yours won't go away
If that's the case (meaning he can't/won't fulfill your desires), you have 4 options
#1, Live with your desire and leave it in the back of your mind, never fully satisfied with how you live
#2, Sneak around and risk all sorts of major troubles
#3, sit with him and explain to him that you love him and want to be with him, but you NEED (not WANT but NEED) to explore this part of yourself and hope he can understand and allow you to do it opnely...there're a LOT of ways this can be done, including establishing boundaries of no sex with a partner you select for D/s
#4, end the relationship and seek what you need elsewhere

All I can say to you is weigh carefully what you WANT versus what you NEED, and what you can live with in the future when you look back on your life
No one wants regrets for things not done, but regrets for hurting others can be far worse

And I wish you the best of luck in this VERY difficult place

All IMHO, of course

 

[Pure]

Hi James G 5:

I very much liked your enumeration of outcomes, where one partner has decided to 'live out' a particular kink.


I have known several women who found themselves in the position of discovering or admitting to a deep desire for BDSM
They've handled it in different ways
A few have approached their husbands and been roundly denied
At that point, a few broke the marriage off and a few of the others entered in to affairs
The ones that entered in to affairs were either eventually caught, ending the marriage in every case, or ended the marriage due to the strain of the double life, or in a few cases got the "kink" out of their system/decided BDSM wasn't for them and went back to their 'nilla lives with their hubbies none the wiser

That sounds like a clear view of reality. It's not my interest to judge or grade those different paths, or recommend or advocate any one path.

I've admitted a relationship that failed, where adultery was involved; and a certain other person here says (or indicates) s/he's been totally honest and faithful (in one or more relationships) . Well _taking that person's statement as fact, then he or she may deserve some kind of recognition of moral superiority _according to their own account_.

Yet on a forum like this, genuine assessments are not possible; no one has the 'God-like' perspective and complete list of facts. Few of us have independent access to facts about anyone else.

-------
I want to make a slight correction, since some current posters are misrepresenting my position; maybe you James are not, I can't quite tell:


James G5:

Ok, one comment on the derail, THEN back to the thread topic

There is a HUGE difference in essential honesty and total honesty
Pure commented on all relationships being built on deceits
I am a HUGE believer in openess and honesty IN MOST THINGS
But there is a major difference in answering "Does this dress make me look fat?" It's not the dress, bitch! and saying "Honey, I'm going bowling" when you're really about to go fuck her best friend.

What I said was a bit different:
Pure said,

//Neither do the 'total honesty' and 'let it all hang out' folks have a monopoly on virtue, though it always sounds good on paper; the contrary view has much to it: every 'good'--adequate, working-- relationship is based on a number of concealments, if not deceptions (lines between passive and active become blurred.) //.

I had in mind, primarily, such things are past sexual relations and practices, for it is at least debatable whether they should ALL be placed on the table for the partner. I had in mind also, 'slips'-- like kissing a stranger at the company Xmas party.

We could try to map out what 'essential honesty' is, what is a 'white lie' or a 'black one.' (Ever try that 'essential honesty' routine with the IRS?). That's another thread, and if the aim is judgment, the effort doesn't much interest me. More important may be 'white omissions' and 'black omissions'! I defer, here, to my (self said) moral superiors in these matters.

As Emerald says, it's assumed that we are care for those around us. We are not psychopaths. Concealments lead to hurts of others). So do revelations (Honey, I think I'm gay!). A basic issue is the place of one's own wants, no matter how twisted!. If they are put aside, can be put aside, no problem-- at least for the other. Yet we all feel entitled to some of those wants. And so does one's partner.

 

[Netzach]

Anyone ever talk to a Pro or Pro of the past?

Professional ethics, legal compliance, and personal preference mean I don't fuck anyone's husband as part of this work. Many husbands, I think, come to me *precisely* because they know fucking and sucking and that crap is out of the question. It's all about the beatings. That they are administered by a pleasant looking femme of reproducing age, the memory of whom they might wank to...well, that's just icing on the cake.

Of course I could never be a safe and reputable Dominant because I am assisting people in going outside a marriage for a scene and maintaining discretion. I am probably not even trustworthy as a Top, no matter how much skill I accrue, no matter how much respect I have for the client and his kink. I am facilitating secrecy and therefore my ethics suck.

It's interesting to see a *highly* skilled and experienced subset of the scene treated in such a manner. Especially when names like Mistress Mir, Queen Cougar, Mistress Lisette, etc. conjure up such adoration in the scene...professional Dominants all. We buy their books, we want the demo, we beat off to pictures of them, but they are not "real" and the married men who see them are "lying losers"

If the women in search of outlet are at all bi and find some extra cash lying around, I would say that the vast majority of skilled pros would be thrilled to play with a woman for a change!

Now, on my own time, I am in a Top/bottom relationship with someone who's married. I have been for seven years. All my people know, none of his people know. It has not crashed and burnt nor ended in tears, and I really don't care what people think. I am rather proud to say that being the other woman can be perfectly satisfying if you do not break some basic rules.

1. Don't fall in luvvvvvv.

2. Don't sit by the phone.

3. Don't need him.

Femsubmission can be INCOMPATIBLE with these rules, though. Because it requires vulnerability, availability, adoration, and often elicits deep, epic romantic luvvvvvvv. I don't think most women are cut out to be the other woman. I think you have to basically be the kinda girl who fucks like a man. For better or for worse I have always been.

So, I'm out as a hired gun and a homewrecker, perhaps I'm more credible than Pure, but my message is similar:

Your mileage will vary.
Don't do it if you can't live with it afterwards. Whatever that is.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Pure, you are an out-and-out liar in pretty much every facet of your life that you share with us. Why should anyone listen to you, except as an example of what NOT to do? Anjd, of course, I wonder how it feels for you, to be so worthless an individual, that you can't even maintain a sliver of integrity online, where there is no risk in it?
Go ahead and tell the lie one more time, that those that claim that "honesty is the best policy" are claiming moral superiority over others. Then go edit your posts after people respond to them, so you can appear smarter than you are.

WHat I don't understand is the hostility towards those of us who suggest that there IS a higher path that one should at least attempt to stick to. No one can be perfect, but no one should abandon the effort to do the best they can with the cards they are dealt.

Oh, and you don't get cut any slack because you facillitate deception professionally, either...

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Oh, and while we're at it, can someone explain how it is that you can be so horny that you are willing to destroy other human beings? My equipment works just fine, but I haven't thought exclusively with my genitalia since I was in my early 20s. What kind of lust does it take to risk your entire way of life over, and is it a sign of some sort of mental disorder?

 

[Netzach]

Oh, and you don't get cut any slack because you facillitate deception professionally, either...

Wow. It sure sucks to be a writer.

It sucks really bad to be a lawyer.

And I think all of the magicians deserve to have their throats severed by big cats.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Wow. It sure sucks to be a writer.

It sucks really bad to be a lawyer.

And I think all of the magicians deserve to have their throats severed by big cats.

Hey, we KNOW writers are professional liars, dammit!

Save the hatred for mimes...

 

[Pure]

Johnny, Johnny,

You do go on.

I've AGREED, for heaven's sakes, that your self-proclaimed virtue FAR surpasses mine. Your self-described character is as a pile of rubies. Indeed I'll extend that to other areas you mention: Your self-said avoidance of lying, your self-attributed control of your genitals, etc. etc. FAR exceed my humble allotment!

Relative to your glowing and glorious self-assumed position in the moral universe, I'm as a miserable speck, dirt, indeed offal.

I cannot bow any lower in tribute!




--now can we move to another topic related to the thread?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Johnny, Johnny,

You do go on.

I've AGREED, for heaven's sakes, that your self-proclaimed virtue FAR surpasses mine. Your self-described character is as a pile of rubies. Indeed I'll extend that to other areas you mention: Your self-said avoidance of lying, your self-attributed control of your genitals, etc. etc. FAR exceed my humble allotment!

Relative to your glowing and glorious self-assumed position in the moral universe, I'm as a miserable speck, dirt, indeed offal.

I cannot bow any lower in tribute!

It isn't about me, or you....it is about advising other people that maybe they should seek a better road than some of the ones we have walked. Your little smartass comments aside, just because, say, I yell at my boss and lose my job, should I advise others to resolve conflict at their job by yelling at THEIR boss? Or should I maybe suggest that they try for a better solution?