Are slaves......

[FungiUg]

Just to toss something a little different in....
What are the differences between a dominant and a Master/Mistress, what does the word Master/Mistress mean to you? Is it different from dominant or the same...or maybe a step above dominant? Just interested in everyones take on this.

I think it's a question you will get a different answer to, depending on who you speak to. So far as I know, the common answer is something like "a Master owns a slave, a Dominant plays with a submissive", so the difference is in the type of relationship. But again, the words are what you make of them.

For me personally, there's little to no difference. I prefer being called Sir, because I think it sounds sexier. But with my partner, it ends up being Master and Mistress, as Sir and Ma'am doesn't sound as good, and my partner hates being called Ma'am.

 

[Etoile]

To me those titles mean nothing, I am a Dominant, I am not going to call myself master or any other popular title.

I've noticed Catalina calling you Master and other titles - does this bother you at all? I think sometimes it's a convenient way of reference.

In the US there was a movement called old guard, in that movement according to legend and myth the title was earned and given as an honorary title to those who deserved to be called such.

Does anybody remember who our old guard expert was? I know we had somebody around here who was very, very well versed in these things.

In Greece according to popular legend the place where modern BDSM came from. The title was passed on by a Master to his most promising slave on his dead bed.

I had no idea BDSM was said to come from Greece. The idea of passing on the role of Master seems totally absurd...they're roles, and unless the most promising slave happens to be a switch, I don't see how that could work! *shrug*

There are many stories and popular myths; however the sad truth of the matter is that in current days anyone can call himself master and get away with it.

Interestingly, it's possible that these people are masters...as far as their purposes require, anyway. Who's to say that anyone's way of practicing kink is any more or less valid than anyone else's? Just a thought.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Etoile,

Always nice to see our second most beautiful moderator.

I am sure that a search on google will find you most answers to your questions.

About Catalina calling me Master, she actually calls me most of the time Amo, which is Spanish for Master but has also other meanings.

Like I said before I am not going to call myself master . If my property wants to call me Master because she feels I deserve that title that is a different story. It is not a title though that I expect or welcome from others as I am not their Master.

Francisco.

 

[Etoile]

Francisco,

Thank you for your explanations - you're always so precise and eloquent! I had forgotten that she calls you Amo although she's mentioned it in the past. I love the way the word has multiple meanings.

And yes, I am the Google search queen! (At least over in How-To, and sometimes elsewhere.) I just remembered that we had someone around here who was familiar with old guard traditions, but I can't recall who that is. As for the Greek history, I'll have to look that up sometime when my girlfriend doesn't need to use the phone line.

- Etoile

 

[catalina_francisco]

Like I said before, Greece according to popular legend is he place where modern BDSM came from. In any case not that I am agreeing with that statement and what i said came from club stories but in any case some history for the interested.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Basement/9560/torturehist.html
http://www.wylde.com/sextoyguide/history.htm
http://www.libida.com/content/timeline/home.php?id=1157479761&source=snd
http://ncbdsm.tripod.com/flogginghistory.htm

Francisco.

 

[Etoile]

Ah, thank you for doing the legwork for me, Francisco! I never did get back to the computer last night. I definitely owe you one - don't let me forget.

 

[JooJoo]

in answer to ur question KC i dunno why i find them scary, i just.... do.....my evil {explitive deleted X many} master just {more explitives...} dumped & humiliated me, so i'm now looking for a new dom.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Hi OSG,

I believe that BDSM D/s is what the people involved make of it. You and your Master seem to be two happy people so all the power to the two of you.

Your definition to me is more that of an alfa male than that of a Dominant. I do not happen to believe that is the same, yes there are common characteristics but they are not identical.

Of course a Dominant is not a stone and of course a Dominant has feelings and emotions, but a Dominant in my book tries to control the emotions, the more animal instincts, and yes sometimes the control might slip but slipping is not letting go.

Francisco.

Francisco, yes i suppose i do think of a Dominant man as one who is the alpha male type. one who is not Dominant, who cannot help but be Dominant, throughout general life, does not fit my own perception of Dominant. if it is alright, may i ask what is your own definition/idea of Dominant?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello OSG,

You ask a difficult question to answer in a couple of words, so here I go off again on one of my long boring essays...I have often been told that they are the best medicine against insomnia. You have all been warned if you read this and fall asleep, you will not be able to sue me.

The term Alpha refers to the leader of any given pack (family or group). Animals (and humans are animals) which fancy themselves as the Alpha are generally pushy, manipulative, demanding and dominant. They like to call the shots in any relationship, and expect others to follow their lead. Being the pack leader does not mean acting like an ogre with your partners. In fact it's your responsibility as a dominant to treat your partner humanely and fairly, and to protect him from physical and emotional harm which is not part of the agreed ‘harm’ between the members involved in the relationship.

It is my believe that Dominants have a strong alpha element in their character, they want to be the dominant factor in their pack, however they do not feel the need to dominate outside their pack and have grown towards a more sensible and adult approach to dominance. IMHO dominance is an innate trait, like homosexuality, it is hard to explain to those that are not Dominant or do not have a Dominant bone in their body. I believe that dominance and submission are the two extremes of a spectrum in which the switch lies somewhere in the middle and the vanilla simple can not see or feel the spectrum. The day I discovered my dominant nature it was as if a curtain that had been covering an understanding, feelings and desires, was removed. I had known all of my life I had these feelings I just did not know what it was. So what makes a Dominant what are some of the characteristics of a Dominant.

It is common in the D/s community to downplay the sadistic characteristics of a Dominant, although I agree with the idea that a Dominant does not need to be a Sadist IMHO it is very probable that he is. I am a Sadist and get sexually aroused by the pain I give my partner, I have found sadism to be very common in the lifestyle like masochism but that being more a submissive trait.
A Dominant is one who has self-knowledge; he has learned the flaws in his character and has found ways to control those.
Dominance comes from within and not from the opinions of others; a Dominant knows he is a Dominant and does not need the affirmation by others although he might enjoy adoration.
A Dominant can only be worthy of controlling others if he can control himself, no he is not a saint and he can have flaws but like mentioned before he will fight those and needs to learn how to control his lesser more animal instincts.
A Dominant knows the value of trust and honesty and will not go back on his word or break earlier agreed agreements.
A Dominant does not need to continuously demonstrate or show his dominance, it is there always.
Integrity, character, honesty, fairness, consistency and honour are all an integral part of his characteristics.

I am sure that there are many more characteristics but I hope this will give you an idea.

Francisco.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Francisco,

thanks for getting back to me. i agree with much of what you said about Dominance. i guess i'm not seeing how/where we disagree in this matter, except perhaps you may see Dominant as a bit more of a title, something to be earned, than i do, although i could be wrong there also. in my description of a Dominant, i simply described my Master, as in my experience in this lifetime, he better fits that state of being than any other human being i've ever encountered. i hope i am very wrong here, but it sounded a bit like you were saying that you felt my Master was flawed in his Dominance, or not a true Dominant, because he "lets go" at times. although i was clear to say that my Master has never allowed himself to release as much as he may wish to/have the urge to at times, which imo makes him that much more true a Dominant. like you, i do not feel that a Dominant is one who always has the need to prove to the world that they're head honcho. that would be more my definition of an immature fool, not a Dominant. at the same time, i do not feel that Dominant equals perfect courtly gentleman, with a heart of gold either. a Dominant can be good or bad and everything in between.

i don't completely share your idea of the alpha personality. i look at the animal kingdom...wolves for instance. usually the leader of the wolf pack is born into his position. his father was the head before him....he's part of a long line of leaders. his dominance is innate. it's a given, a fact that doesn't need to be constantly reiterated or proven...it's just understood by all, that it is. that is how i view a Dominant...it's simply how one is born, not something one can become or try to be.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello OSG,

Well since you have asked me if I think your Dominant is flawed in his dominance, yes he is, like I am and every other Dominant on this planet. We are humans and we are not flawless. What makes the difference between being a ‘true’ Dominant and an alpha male is the way you handle your imperfections. I do feel that controlling one’s anger is of the extreme importance, letting go of it even in the slightest instance is dangerous, very dangerous.

It is not for me to judge your Dominant or the way he controls his anger, I do not know how much effort he has to put into controlling it. If you think I made a judgement call over your Master I apologize that was not my intention, it is not my place to judge others, like I will not be judged by others. What is my intention is to make clear how important I think it is for the Dominant to be in control of his emotions, especially anger.

I feel that our main difference in how we view dominance is not our viewpoints about dominance, but it is whom we call a Dominant and who has a dominant character. Having a dominant character is not the same as being a Dominant. Maybe I can clarify with an example.

Some of us have an innate ability to run very fast. To be able to run very fast does not automatically make you a runner/athlete, lots of training, motivation and willpower makes you an athlete. This to me is what a Dominant also has to do, he might have innate dominance but that does not make him a Dominant. Training and sharpening of the mind and skills, and controlling those factors does that.

It is clear that at least at a certain level your Master has the same beliefs, he is your Dominant but he still controls his own level of anger he releases on you, he trains you and your abilities, for example he guided you into being able to drink his pee. He takes you step by step further along the road; he feeds his needs but does not try to overly damage his property in doing so. So although he has clear alpha male characteristics he does not allow them to cloud his judgement. This is in essence what a Dominant does, he controls his feelings and instincts to be able to feed them better.

Francisco.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Francisco,

i think i understand what you mean now (sometimes it takes me a while)...you are correct in that i do not differentiate between being a Dominant, and having a Dominant personality. just as i do not differentiate between being a submissive, and having a submissive personality/character. imo, one can be Dominant and not be in, or have any knowledge of, the D/s lifestyle...one can be Dominant and be an abuser...one can be Dominant and be a horrible person. the qualities you listed that make up a Dominant iyo...training, control over one's own emotions, etc...those to me are qualities of a GOOD Dominant, of a good Man/person...but not what makes one Dom. Dominance is an innate personality trait and it's there always, within a person, and imo nothing can be done to make one more true or real a Dominant...you are, or you aren't...and that's that. but when one is wise, when one does learn how to control themselves more than the average beast, when one guides and leads others with concern and thought...that to me is a good Dominant, a better Dominant. but the lout who cares nothing for anyone else and rules with fear as opposed to respect is just as much Dom imo, just not a good one.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I understand what you are saying, the innate characteristic dominance or submissiveness is not bound to morals or capacity it is just there in its raw form.

I agree with you that a dominant personality does not need to be good or bad.

Francisco

 

[TNRkitect2b]

I must admit, I have watched this thread with interest.

It does make me glad to know that people here are willing to discuss things until a mutual understanding of each others points of view is gained, and is accepted as being valid, even though there may be differences between them. This is what keeps me posting on these boards.

Kudos.

 

[MasterBear]

Slaves MUST accept

Greetings,

YES, by the very concept of being a slave; what ever your Master wants to use you for or do to you as a slave your body is a pleasure toy for him/her!

However, any half intelligent Master would never abuse or damage his slave and more than he would himself. I enjoy the pleasures I take from my slaves submission to me. Her body is mine, if I am smart I mix extrreme physical pleasure with temprary pain which releases her body to a higher level of excitement.

Pain for increased sexual arousal is good; but damage to your slave either mentaly or physicaly is plain STUPID!

 

[robhill]

just a question in all this how can i describe it...you sound like intelligent women...how can you be owned and made to suffer?

 

[Kajira Callista]

just a question in all this how can i describe it...you sound like intelligent women...how can you be owned and made to suffer?

Because we are intelligent women, we are aware of our needs. Being made to suffer to you is what you read here. Being made to suffer for me is not having those things.

 

[Etoile]

just a question in all this how can i describe it...you sound like intelligent women...how can you be owned and made to suffer?

You're right, we are intelligent women (and men!). Some of us happen to enjoy being owned, and what some people define as suffering is not suffering for us. Others of us enjoy the suffering itself.

You might want to check in at the BDSM Talk Library, which is a sticky at the top of this forum. There's plenty of good reads in there to teach you more about the kinky lifestyle we discuss here.

 

[FungiUg]

I have friends who are organising to go see a Steeleye Span concert -- apparently it's the 25th reunion.

Now I like a lot of music, even some that Maddie Prior has been involved with (for example, she's done backing vocals for some Afro Celt Sound System, which I love.) But a Steeleye Span concert (an English folk music -- can you say bells on trousers?) would be my idea of torture.

And yet, they love it! They are voluntarily paying money to be subjected to it!

So... it's all a matter of taste and perspective. One person's torture is another person's desire.

 

[Sirs Lady]

great metaphor, fungi

wow..what an incredible thread, and i just now found it. It would have saved you a few of you a lot of writing if I knew it was here....You guys are incredible in how you share your thoughts. I know that I appreciate it quite a bit.

I'm not sure about some of you, but for me I dont look at this "lifestyle" as just sexual behaviors. more later.

 

[Sirs Lady]

okay...i'm back to finish..


I didn't read all the posts, but i read most of them. It seems that for most people that a Dominate or Master is about the things they can force their sub or slave to do, mostly sexually....What I've found about myself, is that to get to the sexual part, the Dom has to make me feel like i'm the most precious thing to him. It doesn't even have to become sexual....

Okay, don't laugh too hard, but there are two characters that i love to death....Justin Matise (played by harry connick jr on Hope Floats) and Michael Carrington (the cool rider guy on grease 2). Their characters are strong, silent, intelligent, with just enough rebel to make the whole package sexy. Especially Connick's character, he controls the situation without force. There is that sense of knowing they will be around. When my Sir wraps his arms around me, I want to feel instantly safe. I want to know that without a doubt he will be there for me. The more I feel that way, the more of a "Master" he would become. The more that I would be willing to do for him. Hmmm, it is kind of late, i hope that all makes sense...at least I hope you get what i'm trying to say.....

 

[Etoile]

While we're disclosing lusts for characters, I totally have a thing for Spike as he was in his relationship with Buffy. Their sex scenes were so hot, they always made me wet! I think it's a combination of his awesome dominance, his accent, and the fact that he could bite at any time...I love having my neck bitten during sex. I wish he were real.

 

[catalina_francisco]

While we're disclosing lusts for characters, I totally have a thing for Spike as he was in his relationship with Buffy. Their sex scenes were so hot, they always made me wet! I think it's a combination of his awesome dominance, his accent, and the fact that he could bite at any time...I love having my neck bitten during sex. I wish he were real.

For me it was the Billy Idol resemblance.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

I actually hadn't noticed that! Or if I did, I forgot about it. But it totally doesn't help me that I've met James Marsters, and even interpreted for him at a convention...and we are not the only ones with the hots for him. There were a couple hundred girls there going crazy the moment he came out on stage. I was practically blinded by all the flashbulbs! But alas, James Marsters is not Spike, and it's that skill at topping and dominance Spike has that really makes me swoon.

(should probably [/hijack] now!)

 

[Sirs Lady]

Originally posted by Etoile
While we're disclosing lusts for characters, I totally have a thing for Spike as he was in his relationship with Buffy. Their sex scenes were so hot, they always made me wet! I think it's a combination of his awesome dominance, his accent, and the fact that he could bite at any time...I love having my neck bitten during sex. I wish he were real.

omg..laughs softly..how could i forget about him...