Are You Grammatically Incorrect?

[Boxlicker101]

I think 'could of' or 'could have' both work

I don't think anybody writes "could of" unless they are writing in dialect. "Could've" is a contraction of "could have" and the contraction does sound rather sloppy. "Could of" is not a proper form at all; it is a sloppy way of saying "could've"

 

[A7inchPhildo]

I didn't do very goodly! I am glad to see Microsoft Word is still needed. Just wanna keep my stocks up!

 

[Seattle Zack]

Well, the test is a MicroSoft product, so whaddya expect ....

9 out of 10 and I still see nothing wrong with "He acts as if he is the coolest guy in school." The little 'explanation' says that it's an untrue statement -- how do we know that? He may be the Fonz.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Sheesh

Does 'could of' even mean anything?

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

I feel awfully for the test setter.

Apparently you can't have feelings of awe, for anything.

Only the modern usage of the word is allowed. I'd guess he thinks 10 out of 10 would be awesome.

Gauche

|
Unless you are using sandpaper on your fingertips, you
can't feel (adverb). You feel bad for the test setter,
not badly, not awfully, not bitterly.
|
I got 10/10. I *know* the right rules; using them when I'm
typing away is another matter. Every time I get a story
back from the proofreader, I kick myself.

 

[Guest]

Re: Sheesh

Does 'could of' even mean anything?

Exactly. It is used by people who have grown up mishearing the words 'could have' shortened to 'could've'. That gets me even more than the confusion of 'its' and 'it's'.

Anyway, rules is rules and I guess some are there to be taken liberties with. I try not to as muchly as I possibly can.

I didn't get question 7 wrong, I know 'were' is correct. The one I got wrong was number 3: The professor gave the most difficult problems to Andrea and _______.
I used 'myself' instead of 'me'. It did sound right, but I know I was wrong. Perhaps I've got a posh voice in my head, trying to get out.

It was a 'fun' exercise, and it's good to see us AH authors do know most, if not all, of the 'basic' grammar rules. Yes, Pure, 10 out of 10 doesn't indicate perfect grammar skills, as I said in my first post in the thread, "It tests some of the basic grammar rules."

Lou

 

[Guest]

not to hijack this thread, but it's along the same lines as what you all have been talking about. read this the other day and just about fell out of my chair laughing.

"Words and Phrases Commonly Misused by Insipid Brothers-in-Law"

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/11/10diclaudio.html/

That was good, JP. It was funny, and I can definitely relate to what the author of the piece was saying.

I literally choked myself to death on a jelly bean while reading that.

Lou

 

[Icingsugar]

9 out of 10 and I still see nothing wrong with "He acts as if he is the coolest guy in school." The little 'explanation' says that it's an untrue statement -- how do we know that? He may be the Fonz.

Mi pwoynt egg-sack-lee.


And Lauren,
"Bertram, the cheap bastard, filled a large plate with as much as he could of the luxurious buffet."

 

[Boxlicker101]

how do we know that? He may be the Fonz.

Hey, Zack. If you remember from the show "Happy Days", the Fonz was NOT the coolest guy in school. He wasn't a student because he had been expelled. Before being expelled, he may have been the coolest guy.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

And Lauren,
"Bertram, the cheap bastard, filled a large plate with as much as he could of the luxurious buffet."

I hope he eats until he bursts.

"Ah, good afternoon, sir, and how are we today?"

 

[Seattle Zack]

Yeah, I knew the Fonz wasn't a student, I just couldn't think of another example offhand.

He was over thirty, in fact, always thought that was kind of weird, hanging out with high school kids and living in a little room above a garage. We called those guys losers when I was in school.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Yeah, I knew the Fonz wasn't a student, I just couldn't think of another example offhand.

He was over thirty, in fact, always thought that was kind of weird, hanging out with high school kids and living in a little room above a garage. We called those guys losers when I was in school.

And yet, he acted as if he were the coolest... ah, fuck it. *sigh*

 

[A7inchPhildo]

And yet, he acted as if he were the coolest... ah, fuck it. *sigh*

Lauren,
That was funny!

 

[Gary Chambers]

Yes, Lauren and Boxlicker, I agree that could of has no real meaning. It's totally incorrect in the technical sense, but I think I could also make a case that could've is not yet ready for beatification into the holy order of acceptable English words. When I say the test was flawed, I do not mean to devalue the effort of those who got 10/10 or something close. Congratulations all. I simply feel there's a difference between good grammar and good literature. James Joyce wrote sentences that ran on like scared chickens. Dickens made narrator's character judgments that would earn him a fuck-you-very-much for your submission slip from most modern editors. Elmore Leonard writes entire novels deleting the word 'and' wherever it appears because he evidently finds it repulsive. The Bard himself may be revered today, but in his time he condensed the language. I wonder how the purists felt about that? Writing for an audience is linguistic performance art. Please your audience and you got it right. The pedantry of the little grammar test is best applied in academic writing only, if applied at all. Having said that, I teach journalism sometimes, and when I do I stress the importance of good grammar. I just try to avoid becoming a grammar nazi.

Carol and I were good friends at school. For team sports they would pick anyone but Carol and me, but Carol and myself knew we could each rise above their insults if we tried, so it didn't matter to us very much.

I suggest there's not much wrong with that apart from being boring. No, wait a minute. It could be a leader for a lesbian love story.

 

[The_old_man]

Missed six, so why do my stories cary mid 4 vote ratings?

 

[Boxlicker101]

could've is not yet ready for beatification into the holy order of acceptable English words

This is a contraction that I would never use in narrative, unless I happened to be writing in dialect, but I might use in dialogue. If I am reading and I run across misspellings or poor word usage or really bad grammar like "but Carol and myself knew we could each rise above their", it is like a speed bump on the highway. You probably should say "we", instead of repeating the name and using a pronoun.

Missed six, so why do my stories cary mid 4 vote ratings?

You probably have interesting stories, and the grammar questions were mostly rather technical, and if you make those errors, it wou't matter much.

 

[Linbido]

Missed six, so why do my stories cary mid 4 vote ratings?

Because the reader's genitals don't know grammar either.

Me? 7/10, but that was at 4 in the morning...

 

[Gary Chambers]

Missed six, so why do my stories cary mid 4 vote ratings?

Here I was patting myself on the back for being sufficiently self effacing to admit to a 5/10 score, and next thing I know I've been outdone. But I'm not leaving the dunce's corner and that's that. You'll just have to share the space. I learned as a young boy that if you want attention, just get sent to stand in a corner. You become the main event while the instructor who sent you there is reduced to an opening act. Maybe we can get all the girls giggling by making funny faces at each other from under our pointed hats.

 

[raphy]

Yes, Lauren and Boxlicker, I agree that could of has no real meaning. It's totally incorrect in the technical sense, but I think I could also make a case that could've is not yet ready for beatification into the holy order of acceptable English words.

Could've, would've, should've, all far, far preferable to their 'of' counterparts.

When I see someone typing "I would of done that" my opinion of their intellectual ability plummets.

 

[raphy]

Re: I think 'could of' or 'could have' both work

I don't think anybody writes "could of" unless they are writing in dialect.

Or they don't know how to write

 

[Pure]

Thanks for the link, jpschust; I particularly liked this passage, even though the level of rage is a bit over the top (Note for Gary Bob, below) :

You do realize that "THAN" and "THEN" are two different words, don't you? Do you know how you can tell? Because they're spelled differently. That "a" and "e" aren't interchangeable, you callous shitwheel. You can't just spell it how you like depending upon your mood. "I'm a stupid, fucking, big-shot stockbroker who doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself and spews his moronic opinions like vomit and probably cheats on his wife, and I think I'll spell "THAN" with an 'e' today." No. That's not how it works, asshole!

"THAN" expresses comparison and "THEN" expresses a passage of time or distance! Think of it this way: I'm literally going to grab your dick and pull it farther from your body THAN you can possibly imagine, regardless of how shrilly your screams fall upon my unsympathetic ears, until your dick comes off in my hand and I shove it down your goddamned pontificating, no-good throat! THEN we'll see whether or not you start giving the simple fucking rules of English the respect they fucking deserve!
=====

Hi Gary Bob,


Having said that, I teach journalism sometimes, and when I do I stress the importance of good grammar. I just try to avoid becoming a grammar nazi.

Carol and I were good friends at school. For team sports they would pick anyone but Carol and me, but Carol and myself knew we could each rise above their insults if we tried, so it didn't matter to us very much.

I suggest there's not much wrong with that apart from being boring. No, wait a minute. It could be a leader for a lesbian love story.

As the risk of sounding fascist . 'Myself' is usually (mis)used--especially in the subject position-- by people trying to sound formal or respectful or like the Queen (who probably avoids such use).

However, your example perhaps approaches respectability because the phrase "Carol and me" would sound awkward, repeated. Hence 'myself' is a kind of variation for style.

OTOH, since "Carol and me" has been used, the simple 'we' will avoid the repetition**.

OK, then there's lot of 'we's' so how about this, with some other pruning:

"...but we knew we could // rise above their insults, so it didn't matter much to us."

I fail to see the purpose of 'each' deleted at the point marked //.

clearly of dangerous leanings to the grammatical right wing,

J.

**I note boxlicker has stated the same preference.

 

[Gary Chambers]

Re: Re: I think 'could of' or 'could have' both work

Could've, would've, should've, all far, far preferable to their 'of' counterparts.

When I see someone typing "I would of done that" my opinion of their intellectual ability plummets.

I agree. The trouble is, it's the sort of mistake one might fall victim to when working quickly under deadline pressure, so while I agree with your first quotation above, I wouldn't go quite as far as your second.

Or they don't know how to write

A person's ability to use English well depends on education, peer influences, upbringing, plain old literary talent or a combination of these things. I was born in Britain and received good quality schooling in my early years. Then we moved to the backwoods of Canada, and as a matter of survival I quickly lost my most refined habits of speech in public. Fortunately, my father was always well spoken so I continued to be exposed to good English at home, and kept using it myself too.

These days I still speak with my natural accent at home sometimes, but even in my fifties I find it embarassing to talk that way outside the house. Since I started writing for a living at about eighteen, however, I hope I've managed to keep my English skills fairly well honed. A few stints of higher education at various stages have doubtless also helped. In the end, however, I still like to use "could have" rather than "could've", except when writing conversational dialect. If it seems stilted to some ears, well you can't please all of the people all of the time. There is nothing grammatically incorrect with using complete words rather than contractions, and provided they sound natural rather than unpleasantly jolting the reader, I think it's a perfectly acceptable way to write.

The grammatical skills of the people involved in this conversation are probably all above average, which is why we can afford to amuse ourselves by arguing these academic points, but we would do ourselves and our readers no favours by becoming so dogmatic as to actually outlaw such habits as using "could have" in place of "could've". I don't happen to like that particular contraction, but I think I said at the outset that I don't condemn others for using it. We write to entertain and inform; to communicate. When we lose sight of that basic purpose we become less than we are.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Yeah, I knew the Fonz wasn't a student, I just couldn't think of another example offhand.

He was over thirty, in fact, always thought that was kind of weird, hanging out with high school kids and living in a little room above a garage. We called those guys losers when I was in school.

In Sweden, we call them "Michael Jackson"...

 

[Gary Chambers]

(At the risk of sounding fascist . 'Myself' is usually (mis)used--especially in the subject position-- by people trying to sound formal or respectful or like the Queen (who probably avoids such use).

However, your example perhaps approaches respectability because the phrase "Carol and me" would sound awkward, repeated. Hence 'myself' is a kind of variation for style.

OTOH, since "Carol and me" has been used, the simple 'we' will avoid the repetition**.

OK, then there's lot of 'we's' so how about this, with some other pruning:

"...but we knew we could // rise above their insults, so it didn't matter much to us."

I fail to see the purpose of 'each' deleted at the point marked //.

clearly of dangerous leanings to the grammatical right wing,

J.

**I note boxlicker has stated the same preference.

You are right, of course. The example I gave was not an example I would let stand in a written work for publication (I hope). I just thought I could make a point by rattling off a short quote using we, myself, I and me where they sounded acceptable, with total disregard for whether I had the grammar correct. I think I succeeded, because in the course of this thread my brain has become sufficiently scrambled to completely forget why one word is more correct than another. One does not need alcohol or herbal intoxicants to turn one's head to mush. Just start discussing the finer points of grammar with some competent wordsmiths and your entire head will soon be suitable as nothing more than a macabre doorstop.

 

[MathGirl]

In Sweden, we call them "Michael Jackson"...

Dear Swenska,
Here, too, Swede. Now if everyone would of just read DurtGurl's Dubious Dictionary, all this fuss could of been avoided.
MG