Ask the Dom/mes Thread

[Ebonyfire]

If dealing with manipulation is unfamiliar ground for you, it can be difficult to spot, especially if a person is *good* at manipulating.

One way to recognize manipulation is to know what manipulation is and understand why it is done.


What:
Manipulation is using any means to persuade a person (you) to meet the manipulator's needs/desires other than clearly asking to have these needs/desires met. (There is both a negative/damaging and postive/reinforcing way of manipulating, but that is another discussion.)


Why:
In general, manipulation is done to get something without coming out and directly asking for it. People often try to get their needs met by manipulating, because they think that asking for something directly:

1. has a higher risk of being refused.

2. would sound too selfish/greedy/demanding.

3. would spoil the illusion that the idea originated with you.

4. would ruin the effect of controlling on the sly and force them to acknowledge that they are attempting to control you or get their way regardless of how you feel about it.

Once you understand what manipulation is and why is it done, it becomes easier to spot.

Another way to recognize manipulation is to pay attention to your feelings. If you are feeling pressured, stressed, and/or frustrated or feeling heavily flattered, extraordinarily special/unique, or all-powerful during a conversation chances are good that the other person is trying to manipulate you.

Be aware that many people are not aware that they are manipulating. We are all taught, especially females, that manipulation is the way to get what they need and want, so it can be quite difficult to see that one is not being straightforward, but is indeed, manipulating.

For example, how often have you heard someone say:

The way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Pretty packaging sells the product.
You won't get a man dressed like that.
A little honey (sex) makes the medicine (money, gifts) go down.
If you love me, you will do this for me.

Of course, these platitudes can also be used to mean other things, but they can also be understood as suggesting that you should not deal with things head on, rather you should find an indirect way to get what you want.

~there are several threads here that deal with manipulation, if you have the interest in searching for them~

Yup, Ms Worthy, the subject seems to be utmost on our minds!

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

9 levels

Another view of the same thing.

9 Levels

 

[Ebonyfire]

Thanks Everyone

for keeping this post lively and interesting.

The majority of you have stayed on topic, and given us all a lot of information to digest. I for one appreciate it. This forum is alive and kicking.

Now let's keep up the good work. I am sure there are others who have legitimate questions that relate to D/s and/or BDSM.

Let's hear from you.

Ebony

 

[zipman]

Thank you EB

For developing and guiding such a great thread!

 

[UCE]

Re: ok Question no 1 is..

"What are some suggestions ,if any, for a new submissive to do to be able to 'properly be 'serving Her/his Master/Mistress in an LDR /online WHERE IT IS SO HARD FOR THE submissive to FEEL she/he is doing a good job?"I am VERY serious here....

If you are doing everything your master tells you and being as honest as with him as you can, especially when problems arise, I would think you're doing a great job. What else would you expect from yourself?

Unda

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: ok Question no 1 is..

If you are doing everything your master tells you and being as honest as with him as you can, especially when problems arise, I would think you're doing a great job. What else would you expect from yourself?

Unda

Thanks for posting Unda.

Eb

 

[A Desert Rose]

This is a great thread and contains a lot of great information. Thank you Eb and to all who have contributed.

One thing though, do you as Dom/me and in a current LDR, give your subs sexual tasks to perform? And can you only rely on the trust you have for your sub, that the task is performed? How do you go about deciding on the task you want them to perform?

(I know this question and answers, ~smiling~ but I also know there are many lurkers and I think it might be helpful for them to hear this.)

 

[Guest]

This is a great thread and contains a lot of great information. Thank you Eb and to all who have contributed.

One thing though, do you as Dom/me and in a current LDR, give your subs sexual tasks to perform? And can you only rely on the trust you have for your sub, that the task is performed? How do you go about deciding on the task you want them to perform?

(I know this question and answers, ~smiling~ but I also know there are many lurkers and I think it might be helpful for them to hear this.)

I do not know about other LDRs, but since proud and I are moving toward a24/7 skin-to-skin TPE, it is important to keep him busy and give him progressive tasks to keep his mind on Me and My control of him. I do give some him choices, but within his choices he has a series of tasks that are meant to reinforce his submission to Me.

I control his sexuality. I control his body, and his modes of sexual satisfaction.

I decide how often he may pleasure himself if at all, and I decide how he does it. I require him to confine his manhood in different ways to remind him of the chastity belt he will soon wear. I have him wear buttplugs to remind him that his ass belongs to Me.

I use tasks that are close to what I would do if we were in the same room.

The buttplug represents my strap on. The Gates of Hell reminds him of chastity confinement, etc.

There are more things, but you get the picture.

Ebony

 

[Ebonyfire]

whoops

That was Me I timed out.

Ebony

I do not know about other LDRs, but since proud and I are moving toward a24/7 skin-to-skin TPE, it is important to keep him busy and give him progressive tasks to keep his mind on Me and My control of him. I do give some him choices, but within his choices he has a series of tasks that are meant to reinforce his submission to Me.

I control his sexuality. I control his body, and his modes of sexual satisfaction.

I decide how often he may pleasure himself if at all, and I decide how he does it. I require him to confine his manhood in different ways to remind him of the chastity belt he will soon wear. I have him wear buttplugs to remind him that his ass belongs to Me.

I use tasks that are close to what I would do if we were in the same room.

The buttplug represents my strap on. The Gates of Hell reminds him of chastity confinement, etc.

There are more things, but you get the picture.

Ebony

 

[SexyChele]

EB, this is more a question for me to try to understand fully the relationship of Domme and submissive male. I'm not passing judgement and mean no disrepect, but I do hope to hear your take on things.

I know that you are currently working towards a 24/7 relationship, and personally I'm very happy for you and hope all works out well. But I also know that you have two submissives that you have had relationships for a number of years. Would those relationships continue? And, if so, how does it work if you are involved in a 24/7? I'm guessing the relationship you have with proud would be more service oriented? (Please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm just interested in how this all works together, and can fully understand if you are still working that out for yourself.

As far as I know, you are the only one on this board in this unique position. But if anyone else has an opinion, or has lived this type of situation, I would like to hear input on it.

Thank you...

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: PBW..

Ah, Dream that is where Your Master and I vary a great deal.

I do not give a rat's ass about intentions. Intentions are not measurable from a behavioural standpoint.

I care about my submissives behaviour. I mold their behaviour and the affective behaviour follows it over time. In other words, their service becomes a habit, and second nature to them.

I leave the mindreading to others.

Ebony

{PBW edited out}

Delurks for a moment. Belongs to a Domme with much the same philosophy, and it was difficult at first. I wanted Her to understand my intentions, and felt misunderstood... this doesn't mean she does not care about or listen to my feelings, and take them into account, but obedience comes first with Her, without if', ands or buts - and that truly is about behavior bottomline.

Sometimes you just have to "suck it up", that's submission at it's most basic at times. No one claimed it was always going to be easy, but one really does need to begin somewhere, and stop wallowing in indecision and discomfort and actually submit. Sometimes you may be gritting your teeth, but if you focus on your behavior, the attitude does eventually align, if the relationship is a good one. Completely agrees with Ebonyfire about molding behavior until it becomes second nature... and as a submissive you have to let go, and submit to find that comfort.

Of course your feelings and thoughts count, but this is a power exchange... in simple terms, you have to give, to get... this means you might often have to please your Dom/me first, and have a bit of patience about your needs and wants. When your behavior is in line with their expectations, you may find them much more receptive to listening to you. That may also include when you are feeling insecure about your service to Them. If you are struggling with your own insecurities, perhaps step back and review the things that your Dom/me has asked of you and feel secure in the knowledge that you are doing it, or re-focus your energy into complying with those known ways. one can tire their Dom/me out at times in trying to be too pleasing or worrying at every turn... sometimes you might have the urge to please them in ways that really aren't that pleasing to Them personally

In my relationship, sometimes I think I have a valid point and a flawless argument for something I want or don't want, or have a complaint about, and She thinks it's utter BS. Other times, I'm not sure and bring something up, and She validates it. Guess who gets the final decision even on my own thoughts and feelings in regards to my behavior? Yes, She does. And if I try to discuss something without proper respect as her submissive, forget it! No one is perfect and we all make mistakes, but you have to make the leap, without letting yourself slide backwards... starting with your behavior can be a great learning tool. You needn't change your personality, but it should help to bring out the best in you, and that which Your Dom/me values.

 

[lovetoread]

Re: Re: Re: PBW..

You needn't change your personality, but it should help to bring out the best in you, and that which Your Dom/me values.

Please delurk more often.

That was wonderfully written.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Good questions, chele

I will try to do your questions justice.I want to try to do them justice...

EB, this is more a question for me to try to understand fully the relationship of Domme and submissive male. I'm not passing judgement and mean no disrepect, but I do hope to hear your take on things.

What you ask is very valid, and no offense is taken.

I know that you are currently working towards a 24/7 relationship, and personally I'm very happy for you and hope all works out well.

Thank you.

But I also know that you have two submissives that you have had relationships for a number of years. Would those relationships continue?

I have two part-times submissives. sissy & bitchboy [not their true slave names]

I have had sissy almost since I arrived here from the pacific northwest. The parameters of our relationship were discussed from day one. He has never been under consideration for 24/7. His magic is elsewhere and he and I both know it. Our agreement (verbal) allows for him to look for other Dommes who may meet his needs. I am also assisting him in that effort because he is under my protection. He knows I will release him one day. He also knows that he may contact me anywhere I am.

bitchboy is also not a 24/7 candidate and he is also well aware of my intentions. he is busy with his career, and does not want permanent relationships.

I do not abandon my subs, once they come under my protection. My first sub, glen and I chat almost every week. He is still under my protection, and I am assisting him in his search for his magic.


And, if so, how does it work if you are involved in a 24/7? I'm guessing the relationship you have with proud would be more service oriented? (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I hesitate to mention my 24/7 because it is a very private affair.

It is a 24/7 consentual slavery TPE relationship. proud knows what this means. The criteria for this relationship is much more comprehensive, and it is meant to be for a lifetimes. He will be my lifetime slave. I will not go into it much deeper that this. I like to keep O/our relationship private.

There is a mistaken notion that service oriented D/s is not as deep, and fulfilling as sex based D/s relationships.
Service is all incompassing. It is erotic and non-erotic. Sexual and domestic. And that is all I will say about that!

I hope this answers your questions.

Ebony

 

[SexyChele]

EB -
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm getting a little better handle on the Domme/male sub thanks to you.

I apologize if it seemed as though I were prying into your relationship with proud. I do know that you have stated that you wanted to keep that area of your life private. (and I can certainly understand that and respect it!) But thank you for sharing what you did.

Trying to learn and understand all aspects of this lifestyle can be mind-boggling!

 

[Ebonyfire]

EB -
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm getting a little better handle on the Domme/male sub thanks to you.

I apologize if it seemed as though I were prying into your relationship with proud. I do know that you have stated that you wanted to keep that area of your life private. (and I can certainly understand that and respect it!) But thank you for sharing what you did.

Trying to learn and understand all aspects of this lifestyle can be mind-boggling!

You are welcome.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

You are welcome. And no need to apologize.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: PBW..

Delurks for a moment. Belongs to a Domme with much the same philosophy, and it was difficult at first. I wanted Her to understand my intentions, and felt misunderstood... this doesn't mean she does not care about or listen to my feelings, and take them into account, but obedience comes first with Her, without if', ands or buts - and that truly is about behavior bottomline.

Sometimes you just have to "suck it up", that's submission at it's most basic at times. No one claimed it was always going to be easy, but one really does need to begin somewhere, and stop wallowing in indecision and discomfort and actually submit. Sometimes you may be gritting your teeth, but if you focus on your behavior, the attitude does eventually align, if the relationship is a good one. Completely agrees with Ebonyfire about molding behavior until it becomes second nature... and as a submissive you have to let go, and submit to find that comfort.

Of course your feelings and thoughts count, but this is a power exchange... in simple terms, you have to give, to get... this means you might often have to please your Dom/me first, and have a bit of patience about your needs and wants. When your behavior is in line with their expectations, you may find them much more receptive to listening to you. That may also include when you are feeling insecure about your service to Them. If you are struggling with your own insecurities, perhaps step back and review the things that your Dom/me has asked of you and feel secure in the knowledge that you are doing it, or re-focus your energy into complying with those known ways. one can tire their Dom/me out at times in trying to be too pleasing or worrying at every turn... sometimes you might have the urge to please them in ways that really aren't that pleasing to Them personally

In my relationship, sometimes I think I have a valid point and a flawless argument for something I want or don't want, or have a complaint about, and She thinks it's utter BS. Other times, I'm not sure and bring something up, and She validates it. Guess who gets the final decision even on my own thoughts and feelings in regards to my behavior? Yes, She does. And if I try to discuss something without proper respect as her submissive, forget it! No one is perfect and we all make mistakes, but you have to make the leap, without letting yourself slide backwards... starting with your behavior can be a great learning tool. You needn't change your personality, but it should help to bring out the best in you, and that which Your Dom/me values.

Thanks for posting.

Your post gives a point of view that needs to be heard.

I think that a submissive journal, is an excellent place for a sub to write about feelings, intentions, etc.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

For the new folks!

A good thread to bump!

 

[Freya]

I have a quick question, if I may.

I see titles being said by both Dom/mes and subs here. Master, Mistress, Himself etc. Are these a unconditional form of expression usually for everyone? What I mean is, once you are involved in this type of relationship, is calling him Master a regular part of it - does everyone do it - is it a mandatory thing?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear - my mind is not working at its usual rate of speed today. I hope someone weeds through my gibberish and gets what I mean.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I have a quick question, if I may.

I see titles being said by both Dom/mes and subs here. Master, Mistress, Himself etc. Are these a unconditional form of expression usually for everyone? What I mean is, once you are involved in this type of relationship, is calling him Master a regular part of it - does everyone do it - is it a mandatory thing?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear - my mind is not working at its usual rate of speed today. I hope someone weeds through my gibberish and gets what I mean.

I think it's up to people involved Freya. Some are very strict about the terms they use. Some only use the terms while in "play" mode. Some never use them. Some have other pet names. I think it really comes down to what you and your partner choose.

Hope that helps.

PBW

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have a quick question, if I may.

I see titles being said by both Dom/mes and subs here. Master, Mistress, Himself etc. Are these a unconditional form of expression usually for everyone? What I mean is, once you are involved in this type of relationship, is calling him Master a regular part of it - does everyone do it - is it a mandatory thing?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear - my mind is not working at its usual rate of speed today. I hope someone weeds through my gibberish and gets what I mean.

I personally do not allow anyone other than my own male submissives call me Mistress.

To them I am their Mistress or Ma'am. Others call me Ebony or my given name if they are friends. Other dominants may do things differently.

Eb

 

[Azathoth'sPet]

I do call my Master Master all the time unless conditions dont allow for it (like family is around or something like that). Around his friends that know our relationship I will still call him Master. He calls me Pet in the same way. His friends are not allowed to call me Pet because I am only his pet and thats the way he wants it (and me too ). When we cant use those terms we use our real names. I hope that helps a little .

 

[Grvdigger]

Usually it is Ones own sub that addresses them as Master or Mistress. That is considered proper form, but there is nothing written in stone that you must do it. Again like most things, it is up to the couple to decide, but I instruct My gem not to adress anyone else with those titles.

 

[redelicious]

Hi Freya!

I don't call Nav Master because we don't have that kind of relationship. To us it signifies a level of committment that we are not able to give each other.

I do call him Sir when I am addressing him, however.

I imagine there are as many variations as there are degrees of relationships.

 

[Goddess Helena]

My boy calls me "my Mistress" or "my Lady". The latter can be used in public and people think it's sweet. He rarely calls my the latter while in private.

As the others have mentioned, I think that this is something that varies by relationship.


Helena