Asking him out ... finally (long, detailed); input appreicated

[eudaemonia]

Disspelling our personal beliefs is a tough haul for many of us. Maybe because there is fear of what really is inside our minds. It is a long process sometimes (other times done in the blink of an eye - depending on the stimuli), but the first step is to become willing to look at ourselves, our behaviors, thoughts, attitudes, etc. Willingness is perhaps one of the most difficult things to overcome. Overcome isn't the right word - willingness requires strength, honesty and bravery.

Yes, willingness to know one's inner self takes great fortitude, but the payoff is very high: high in self-awareness, self-image, self-confidence.

Curious notion about the possibility of fearing what's in our minds. Interesting. I'll have to chew on that awhile.

Having studied Piaget's theory of development and being a primary grade teacher I agree with his thoughts. Our brain/mind isn't capable of conceptualizing until around the age of 8-9ish given individual rates of development.

Right. Even then, it's still rudimentary. And I don't think you ever really stop until the day you die, unless you consciously choose to shut it off.

Therein is one starting place for becoming aware and challenging our beliefs. There are lots of starting places I think - no one right place. The key is to begin. I also think to do that work we need a teacher or guide. We won't hear our own beliefs, those that are so ingrainded, until another points them out for us. I've been lucky to have a few wonderful guides to help me.

Spot on! Literotic is a great place for finding guides. Or learning how to be your own guide, perhaps.

It's work too. Becoming willing is hard and maintaining the willingness when the road might get tough can be difficult too. Fortitude is needed in my opinion.

...

Each of us has the ability, in my mind we have an obligation or responsibility to grow and learn in our human existence.

I agree completely. We are each 100% responsible for our own growth and happiness.

See, you really shouldn't have got me started! I want to be in your class, you'd probably kick me out by the third class because by then I'd have blow your entire syllabus.

I'm glad I pushed your pondering buttons, Cate! Us brainy babes gotta stick together, syllabus be damned!!

 

[eudaemonia]

Sounds like you have Pragmatist leanings, Eudaemonia. Of course, if we are pragmatists, then we can't believe in classic essentialism at all, I wouldn't think. Perhaps it is what is most useful or important to us about our own sexuality?

I'm a Realist, epistemologically and metaphysically. Ethically, too, but I'd further specify it by saying I'm an ethical egoist. That which serves one's long-term, rational self-interest is what's ethically right.

Objectivity is the ability to be conscious of our subjective states. Knowing about our sexuality requires us to observe what's important to us, what feeds us, what hurts us.

Going back to what Cate said, it can take the better part of a lifetime to understand what nourishes us and what's detrimental to our long-term happiness. Childhood hurts can take ages to heal or come to terms with. Sometimes the best we can manage is to, well, manage the pain. But happiness is ultimately worth it, worth the struggle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm. Now that I've written all that, it seems easier to think about approaching my professor, my lust object. "No," really is the worst that will come of it. If it is "No," the sting won't last long. Any measure of happiness that could come my way is certainly worth the risk.

 

[Guest]

 

[Batman4ever71]

Echoes Scalywag

OK, you ladies hit a 25 on my over my head o' meter....lol

I'm still rooting for you E. Also like Scalywag, I haven't been single in quite some time, but I too miss the stars in the eyes as you look upon the object of your affection.

E ~ I believe it was you that posted earlier; You never know unless you try. Carpe Dieum, my dear.

Best Wishes & Luck,
Batman

 

[eudaemonia]

Finally ...

Coffee. Monday @11:30.

I'm glad I sent him a follow up e-mail from last week. I was hoping he would get back to me, and I was getting a little frustrated waiting. So I risked today, and sent him an email. He replied quickly, and said he was still under deadline until this Sunday. But Monday gives us ~45 minutes or so to chat. I'm glad I didn't let my frustration get to me and just shut down.

There's hope, I think ...

 

[SweetErika]

Coffee. Monday @11:30.

I'm glad I sent him a follow up e-mail from last week. I was hoping he would get back to me, and I was getting a little frustrated waiting. So I risked today, and sent him an email. He replied quickly, and said he was still under deadline until this Sunday. But Monday gives us ~45 minutes or so to chat. I'm glad I didn't let my frustration get to me and just shut down.

There's hope, I think ...

We have to wait FIVE whole days???

Good going, E! And I'm sure you'll have a far better time and it'll be easier to take the next step if you're so inclined when he's not under deadline.

 

[Guest]

 

[eudaemonia]

We have to wait FIVE whole days???

It's all about seduction, now, isn't it.

And my understanding is that anticipation is a good thing ... no?

We need to think of something to do to keep busy.

You of fecund mind, I have no worries ...

 

[eudaemonia]

.....

 

[Batman4ever71]

E~ Here's hoping that these five days will pass as the wind.

I know your wait will be worth your wild!!!!

Best of Luck,
Batman

 

[Guest]

 

[eudaemonia]

I know your wait will be worth your wild!!!!

Get outta my head! One of my old nicknames was Your Wildness.

OK, since I didn't know the meaning of "fecund" I had to look it up. Two possibilities:

1. intellectually productive
2. capable of producing many offspring

Hmmmm, now I'm wondering exactly what did you mean.

That's for your fertile imagination to figure out.

 

[Batman4ever71]

Get outta my head! One of my old nicknames was Your Wildness.



That's for your fertile imagination to figure out.

Well your Wildness,

Once I'm in someone's head....it's quite difficult to get me out......

Scallywag, I was so glad that you looked up that word. I thought it was a typo actually I guess my VERY fertile imagination will have to see what I can do with this downtime......lol

Best Regards,
Batman

 

[Guest]

 

[eudaemonia]

We need to think of something to do to keep busy.

Well, c'mon. We're an imaginative lot here, right? And I'm not exactly sittin' pretty in terms of what's to come. There's a lot more that's gotta happen besides me asking him to coffee and him saying to me ''okay.'' I could still use some advice, pretty please....

So how 'bout if y'alls put your sweet 'n' sexy erotic gray matter into gear and spill with your best ideas. Here's what's on my mind:

• I'm thinking I should steer clear of touchy subjects such as his lawsuit against the university and areas of political philosophy that set him off. Is it okay to, for a change, focus more on *me* since, frankly, I've been somewhat timid to reveal myself for fear of coming off as too familiar?
  
  I haven't exactly been clear to him about my status, although what he does know may be conflicting in his mind. About a year and a half ago I went bounding up to him before class, apologizing for missing his mid-term exam because I'd just gotten home from Chicago after getting engaged. However, he also knows that my living arrangements earlier this year were such that I was bouncing from place to place until this summer when I finally found something on campus. So it may be that he doesn't have a clear idea about my personal life (no husband/fiancee', no kids, living alone, etc.)
  
  He also knows that I took an incomplete from him two years ago because I just sort of fell apart emotionally. The class was about international justice and it got to the point where I couldn't handle reading about mass rape in Rwanda and Bosnia because I really hadn't come to terms with my own incident of sexual assult (just before I met him, incidentally). I've since learned to cope with my anger and the injustice of it and I haven't turned into a man-hater. Far from it.
  
  
• Do I reveal to him that I have read the university's Consensual Relationship Policy or save that for another time?
  
  
• What to say after the our coffee time ends, or is about to end. While this is no time for demuring, I want to keep it subtle and classy. But somehow, some way I'm thinking this is the time to let him know that *I want him* as in: I want to get to know him, spend some more time with him.
  
  
• Discussing some late breaking news: I just found out this morning that the department's chair has resigned. Xxxxx has a lawsuit pending against the university, which specify grievances against the chair. Xxxxx has shared much (several hundred pages) of the documentation he and his attorney hav produced on the matter. Should I refrain from asking about how this might be affecting his case?
  
  
• Lastly, I'm going to have to ask him for a letter of recommendation for grad school soon, as he's the one who knows more about me as a student than anyone. I think some people would think being involved with a former student for whom you're intending to write a letter of rec would be a conflict of interest. Frankly, I say "bullshit" and for the same reasoning that I don't subscribe to the ''love is blind'' school of psuedo-psychology. (In fact, when we're really in love with someone, we're with them because we not only see and appreciate their specialness, but also are well aware of their shortcomings and nevertheless accept them fully.) He's by far the best judge of what I'm capable of and what my scholastic habits are.

Well, there's a short list to mandibulate on. Get crackin'!

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

Mandibles are ready to go

Getting out my extra size jaw to start chewing on all of this.

I do agree that you want to have the conversation end, if not begin, on non-work things. After all, what we want is for him to not be thinking about you in professional terms. We want him to be thinking of you as that tempting hot chick across the table that he really wants to see again. So, yes, wear something classic, appealing, and a wee bit sexy. Then, yes, discuss yourself, making it totally clear that you are single and that you like reading author X or this movie last year or surfing the banzai pipeline or whatever you do. Then try to talk about him. The department chair thing is a good place to start. It's relatively harmless, but then try to talk about things other than his professional life and his lawsuit. He might not want to think about his lawsuit as much as possible, and it could be that very thing which you are offerring to him. Also, it will be a nice way to find out if he has a life other than his political and philosophical concerns. (If he doesn't, it can be OK, but you will want to know that.)

Otherwise, relax and do everything you can to enjoy the time with him. If he enjoys the time and so do you, that is by far the best measure of how well this is going to go. You don't have to accomplish too much in one meeting. You just want to accomplish a second meeting and a few thoughts in his head for you.

Puts mandibles back in closet.

 

[Eilan]

• I'm thinking I should steer clear of touchy subjects such as his lawsuit against the university and areas of political philosophy that set him off. Is it okay to, for a change, focus more on *me* since, frankly, I've been somewhat timid to reveal myself for fear of coming off as too familiar?
  
  I haven't exactly been clear to him about my status, although what he does know may be conflicting in his mind. About a year and a half ago I can bounding up to him before class, apologizing for missing his mid-term exam because I'd just gotten home from Chicago after getting engaged. However, he also knows that my living arrangements earlier this year were such that I was bouncing from place to place until this summer when I finally found something on campus. So it may be that he doesn't have a clear idea about my personal life (no husband/fiancee', no kids, living alone, etc.)
  
  He also knows that I took an incomplete from him two years ago because I just sort of fell apart emotionally. The class was about international justice and I got to a point where I couldn't handle reading about mass rape in Rwanda and Bosnia because I really hadn't come to terms with my own incident of sexual assult (just before I met him, incidentally). I've since learned to cope with my anger and the injustice of it and I haven't turned into a manhater. Far from it.
  
• Do I reveal to him that I have read the university's Consensual Relationship Policy or save that for another time?
  
• What to say after the our coffee time ends, or is about to end. While this is no time for demuring, I want to keep it subtle and classy. But somehow, some way I'm thinking this is the time to let him know that *I want him* as in: I want to get to know him, spend some more time with him.
  
• Discussing some late breaking news: I just found out this morning that the department's chair has resigned. Xxxxx has a lawsuit pending against the univesity, which specific grievances against the chair. Xxxxx has shared much (several hundred pages) of the documentation he and his attorney has produced on the matter. Should I ask about how this might be affecting his case?
  
• Lastly, I'm going to have to ask him for a letter of recommendation for grad school, as he's the one who knows more about me as a student than anyone. I think some people would think being involved with a former student for whom you're intending to write a letter of rec would be a conflict of interest. Frankly, I say "bullshit" and for the same reasoning that I don't subscribe to the ''love is blind'' school of psuedo-psychology. (In fact, when we're really in love with someone, we're with them because we not only see and appreciate their specialness, but also are well aware of their shortcomings and nevertheless accept them fully.) He's by far the best judge of what I'm capable of and what my scholastic habits are.

I'm sure that I'll be of no help here, but I gotta admit that back in my working-mom, adjunct-instructor days, I enjoyed nothing more than a little gossip about university goings-on and the escapades of colleagues. Even though I haven't taught since my youngest child was born, I STILL enjoy it. Of course, I was never in a position in which a colleague and I might have had any sort of romantic relationship potential, so I can't offer any input in that regard.

I, like a lot of others, have been/will be watching this thread with interest.

*thinks of semi-former colleagues and shudders*

 

[eudaemonia]

*thinks of semi-former colleagues and shudders*

Sounds like the stuff juicy threads are made of.

We want him to be thinking of you as that tempting hot chick across the table that he really wants to see again. So, yes, wear something classic, appealing, and a wee bit sexy. Then, yes, discuss yourself, making it totally clear that you are single and that you like reading author X or this movie last year or surfing the banzai pipeline or whatever you do. Then try to talk about him.
...

Otherwise, relax and do everything you can to enjoy the time with him. If he enjoys the time and so do you, that is by far the best measure of how well this is going to go. You don't have to accomplish too much in one meeting. You just want to accomplish a second meeting and a few thoughts in his head for you.

Puts mandibles back in closet.

LOL! No need to hide those choppers!!

I like this advice. It's pretty much what I was thinking ...

Indulge me in two more questions:

• I've never called him by his name (or referred to him as Professor or Dr.), no matter whether it was in the classroom, in his office, standing together at the bus stop, in the elevators, etc. Since we're not at your typical university -- average age ~30 on a 25k-student mostly-commuter campus -- it's somewhat common to address faculty by their first names. I've referred to another professor (his mentor) by first name, and in emails I've addressed him by his formal first name (A********), but never his familiar first name (S****). So now what?
  
• If things go well, but he doesn't suggest another time to meet up, should I just say, "Thanks. I always enjoy talking to you. Ping me if you want to chat about B******* [his hometown in Europe] sometime. I'd love to hear all about it." (Background: I'm going to a philosophy conference there next summer, one that he used to run. I know he'll be in that city next summer as well but not sure when.) I mean, should I give some indication that I enjoy his company, and welcome the chance to talk again about non-academic things and simply leave it there? Or just chill and give him the chance to email me or whatever? I mean, it's not like I'm leaving the city any time soon.

Thanks everyone for letting me use up bandwidth, and hope that it hasn't been an exercise in vain.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

LOL! No need to hide those choppers!!

Turns side to side showing off the gigantic jaw to great effect.

Indulge me in two more questions:

I've never called him by his name. It's somewhat common to address professors by their first names. I've referred to another professor (his mentor) by first name, and in emails I've addressed him by his formal first name (A********), but never his familiar first name (S****). So now what?

If things go well, but he doesn't suggest another time to meet up? I mean, should I give some indication that I enjoy his company, and welcome the chance to talk again about non-academic things and simply leave it there?

Have you ever heard another student or prof use the familiar first name? If never, then maybe not yet. If yes, then go for it too.

I'm pretty aggressive on these things. If it goes well, then I say ask him out. You can just give your line about "if you'd ever like to talk, ping me." or even go all out, "would you like to meet next week for coffee again?" I could be wrong, but I'm thinking you have a studious type here who doesn't see the clues until they start whacking him on the head. You may not be able to sit back much on this one. I don't mean ask him out every day, but each week may not be a bad idea. You can keep it not overtly romantic for a bit if it helps. Go see that thought-provoking movie at the indie theatre and discuss it with him over tea afterwards.

That's my useless advice! I did tell you I was single, right?

 

[splashum]

My two cents....

First of all, I love being female and overthinking *everything* involved in relationships!

• I've never called him by his name (or referred to him as Professor or Dr.), no matter whether it was in the classroom, in his office, standing together at the bus stop, in the elevators, etc. .... So now what?
• 
  
• I mean, should I give some indication that I enjoy his company, and welcome the chance to talk again about non-academic things and simply leave it there? Or just chill and give him the chance to email me or whatever? I mean, it's not like I'm leaving the city any time soon.

My vote is for starting the use of his first name during coffee, as you begin to talk about more personal things, or just non-school related items. Ex: How did his kids enjoy Halloween? (unless that is too personal still) Can he recommend places to stay for your conference...you know what kind of stuff! By using his first name for the first time in that context (and with the correct accents), you will take your conversation to a more intimate level.

As for giving indications of your interest....just go for it! According to popular literature (which you can take or leave), men appreciate women making that first move to a more intimate relationship. The worst thing he could say is 'No'.

Don't stress too much about this, you already have a rapport with him, you will be fine. And if he ever gets your grade turned in you two will be set!

 

[Guest]

My three cents.....

 

[satchel6978]

e-

unfortunately, i won't add much to what everyone else has already said. i think they summed it up pretty nicely. as a guy, i usually think and think about what i am going to say, then when the time comes, absolutely nothing comes out the way i planned it. and then i think afterwards of what would have been the perfect thing to say. oh well.

i would echo the whole 'act now' sentiment. i have already lost one person in my life because i didn't act soon enough.

good luck!

 

[Batman4ever71]

E ~ I read your post on what to do several times and pondered for quite some time. What I came up with was the fact that Scalywag summed up perfectly what I was going to say. Not only did he cover the topics thoroughly, he did it with class and with excellent articulation.

You DO know that I wish you the very best!!! I can't wait to see what happens.

Best of Luck,
Batman

 

[eudaemonia]

It's funny how you singles demure about the validity and usefulness of your input as much as the coupled e-Lit's do. Jeez you guys. You all have extremely intelligent and sensitive insights!

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking you have a studious type here who doesn't see the clues until they start whacking him on the head. You may not be able to sit back much on this one.

:::snicker, giggle, sigh::: Yes, you've summed it up exactly as it is. He's definitely got that head-in-the-clouds professor thing down! I think he really does need to have a good, passionate one planted on him to "get it."

I've definitely heard him referred to by other faculty as Xxxxx. What's interesting about the lack of proper naming in each other's presence is he's never said my name either! (And how I long to hear it! ::melt::.) So I think you all are spot on about bridging the familiarity gap by using his name for the first time when I see him next week.

Scaly's post about putting too much stock into the demarcation between propriety and impropriety points to something I hadn't thought of before. I say on the one hand I don't give a damn about what the university has to say about consensual relationships. And then on the other hand, I'm all skittish when it comes to crossing some kind of (arbitrarily-drawn) line about making an overture now and asking for a letter of rec later in December. In another thread, I made that case that there's no conflict about the latter! (God, but I'm impossible to reason with sometimes ... ::annoyed::.)

This leads me to what my word of the day is: courage. What's required now is the courage to take the steps necessary to bring about my own happiness. That's what my handle means in ancient Greek: productive happiness.

The resounding chorus here seems to be: Go for it! With this kind of supporting cast, how can I not try? That's the only sin, not trying when you should have. Right?

Thanks Cathleen, SweetErika, sassy_girl1963, Batman4ever1971, M-Y-Erotica, Kardav, Momma of Fire, Rueben80, Lady Jeanne, Scalywag, Satchel6978, Eilan and splashum for all the encouragement. Even if nothing comes of this, the fact that you've all contributed to the cause of helping a fellow human being strive for happiness is admirable and honorable.

 

[sassy_girl1963]

.........................

This leads me to what my word of the day is: courage. What's required now is the courage to take the steps necessary to bring about my own happiness. That's what my handle means in ancient Greek: productive happiness.

The resounding chorus here seems to be: Go for it! With this kind of supporting cast, how can I not try? That's the only sin, not trying when you should have. Right?

Thanks Cathleen, SweetErika, sassy_girl1963, Batman4ever1971, M-Y-Erotica, Kardav, Momma of Fire, Rueben80, Lady Jeanne, Scalywag, Satchel6978, Eilan and splashum for all the encouragement. Even if nothing comes of this, the fact that you've all contributed to the cause of helping a fellow human being strive for happiness is admirable and honorable.

I had to laugh to my self Eudaemonia, my word for the past couple of years has been choice or choices and as I was reading your post, it came to me that along with your word of courage, that I have the choice to have courage and to speak up as to want I want or need within a potential relationship.

So no matter how much I may have help and encouraged you, please know that your willingness to express what is going on in your life and within yourself right now has helped me too! And for that, I am very, very thankful!

And yes - I do think you might need to plant one big passionate kiss right on his lips! Just might give him the shock that he needs!

You go girl!