Asphyxia: Absolute Control

[jadefirefly]

You'd be amazed at the stupid things people will do. It happens, you occasionally hear stories about women who meet a dom/me, go home with him/her that night and get killed.

Once upon a time, there was a man named Darwin...

 

[graceanne]

Ah well. Paint me irresponsible. I've engaged in mild breath play with a new partner -- on the second date. Believe it or not, I like the risk involved

But yeah, kids, don't try this at home.

One of these days I'm gonna buy myself chocoloate shoes. So that when I put my food in my mouth it'll taste good. *sigh*

 

[shy slave]

Oh Pure, This made me smile, its so very you

P: no i did not get misty or tear up, since there are many problems *if one tries to generalize or draw any conclusion about action. ms shy may be one very smart woman, and have immense talents for sizing people up. or she may be lucky.

SS: I am smart woman, thank you. I also have a talent for sizing people AND I was lucky that Andante was the right person for this experience

P: Note it is in the first three days. How well does she know him?

SS: I had been talking to him for a while and knew him as well, if not better, than any vanilla man I would meet in the pub get half-drunk with, take home and be raped by. Which happens, on a daily basis because a person thinks that two hrs of talking means you know them.
Every situation has dangers, any sexual situation increases those dangers. There were a number of safety measures in place, which I will not list but they were there. I made my choices and had I ended up dead as a result, well so be it (Please don't mention my family, kids etc in response to that last comment because you do not know me, my life or my situation).

P: *Feeling safe and *being safe are not the same thing. Shy *happened to be safe, as it turns out, but she had no way of knowing the outcome, imo.

SS: Yes, I agree there are differences. As I said earlier, many situations are unsafe. I was safe and knew I was safe throughout the whole experience

P: Well, 'looks' don't tell the whole story. What is supposed to be the problem if he looks 'concerned'?

SS: Looks tell a great deal of the story. I trust body language over words. Body language is a more accurate gauge. If he had looked concerned I would have perceived he was unsure of himself. I don't want to be experimented on.

P: So it turns out. Shy was accurate is her quick assessment. When you're alone with someone for the first, second, or third time, and they start to choke you, are you *sure* you're right about their 'care' and trustworthiness?

Why do so many meetings, 'first dates,' not pan out? What seems to be one way, is in fact something else.

Nor matter how savvy and wise, ms. shy is, no matter how accurate in this case, what do we know about the accuracy of first impressions? Are yours always accurate?

Just some points to think about before this encounter hits the big screen.

ss: To clarify, it was not a quick assessment, my impressions was and remains accurate. First dates and meetings are just that. A first time to see if there is potential in a relationship and at what level. People have differing expectations of each other. However, its my experience that first meetings often pan out, its subsequent ones that show the cracks in a situation.
I agree no matter how wise or savvy people make mistakes. My experience with Andante was the most loving experience I have ever had. I have had several vanilla relationships and D/s relationships prior to meeting Andante, yet that one experience remains the most loving because of the level of trust we had in each other. Nothing he has done has touched me in quite the same way.
pure

PS. it's worth noting that Catalina's account, above, *in no way resembles* shy's account, since Catalina's circumstances were different and she had a lot of experience with the person. IOW, her trust was based on evidence, not just 'gut' or intuition.

ss: Catalinas experience was different, and thats precisely the point of sharing experiences; they are different. However, my experience was based on trust and evidence, not just gut or intuition. We have not been togther as long as catalina & Francisco, and they have experienced things that Andante and I may never try. Do you really think that this breath control was the first thing we did together? Of course we were building on trust and levels of trust throughout those days, and we continue to do so.

Pure you were right to take my account apart as a means of showing that situations can be unsafe. Lit is a place people learn. However, my personal experience remain a wonderful experience that I crave during mine and Andante's time apart.

Gracie & Jade Thank you but you don't have to 'fight our corner' on this one, Pure has every right to point out the other side of safety. Oh amd just so you know, Andantes Danish not Dutch

Neomalia LOL don't say things like that, you will start Pure off again lol
PS Thanks for adding in the missing , Pure.

 

[alice_underneath]

A general note on risk.....

I am 5'2" and petite. If I remember correctly, Shy is even smaller.

Most guys on the planet (and certainly any whom I would want to date) could physically overpower me in no time flat.

In every single relationship I have ever had, I have therefore been forced to trust the guy before I "had a lot of experience with the person" (to use Pure's phrase).

For someone my size, just being alone in a room with a guy is putting myself at risk for whatever he wants to do.... with or without my consent.


A specific note on Shy's vignette.....

I thought it was hot because I think Andante is freakin' hot as hell.

No, I am not referring to the fact that he looks like George Clooney (though, if the av is accurate, he does).

I am referring to the character of the man - the persona projected by his posts, and Shy's posts when she writes about him.

If the PYL in question had been a person whom I find distasteful, I would have had a completely different reaction to the tale.

Alice

 

[graceanne]

Gracie & Jade[/B] Thank you but you don't have to 'fight our corner' on this one, Pure has every right to point out the other side of safety. Oh amd just so you know, Andantes Danish not Dutch

Crud. Well it starts with the same letter. *sigh*

 

[FurryFury]

When someone is able to write so beautifully and in such a touching way about an activity that many are afraid of but might simultaneously find hot, I see no reason to turn it into a safety first moment. I just gloried in the words and the emotions they showed us and stirred within us.

If she had NOT trusted him, she likely wouldn't have been in that situation. Her reactions likely would have been very different. I already did know that Shy had gotten to know her man well before meeting him though. I knew that they have continued to care deeply for one another. It makes me happy to think of them as well as some of the other couples on here.

If I had forged a solid relationship with someone online like they did. I can't say what I wouldn't do on the first, second or third meetings. I'm very prone to spontaneous quirky passionate moments anyway.

Before the first demo and play party I went to, I said I wouldn't do anything with a stranger either. Guess what? I was wrong. I haven't yet, but I know I would if other factors were present.

The drive to have what you hunger for is quite strong. The fear that you won't have another chance is too. We can say be safe until we are blue in the face but sometimes you just are pulled to what you MUST try to have. That is life. I've done many dangerous things in my life. I'm lucky to be here quite frankly. Human beings tend to be risk takers even when they know better.

However, none of that entered my mind when reading Shy's incredibly wonderful description of her experience. It touched me and others here in a positive and deep way. I'm very glad she wrote it and shared it with us.

Thank you Shy!

Fury

 

[shy slave]

A general note on risk.....

I am 5'2" and petite. If I remember correctly, Shy is even smaller.

Most guys on the planet (and certainly any whom I would want to date) could physically overpower me in no time flat.

In every single relationship I have ever had, I have therefore been forced to trust the guy before I "had a lot of experience with the person" (to use Pure's phrase).

For someone my size, just being alone in a room with a guy is putting myself at risk for whatever he wants to do.... with or without my consent.


A specific note on Shy's vignette.....

I thought it was hot because I think Andante is freakin' hot as hell.

No, I am not referring to the fact that he looks like George Clooney (though, if the av is accurate, he does).

I am referring to the character of the man - the persona projected by his posts, and Shy's posts when she writes about him.

If the PYL in question had been a person whom I find distasteful, I would have had a completely different reaction to the tale.

Alice

Thank you for saying this
Alice The AV is him, he is hot, very hot.
I know I am lucky and believe me there have been times when I have made him so mad I would not want his hands on my throat at that time lol

I am 4'10" /4'9" If I didn't take risks with men due to my height I would still be a virgin. Its a fact of life that short women take risks when they date a new man. But the alternative is to be alone or be a lesbian. As most women are taller than me, that rules our lesbianism and leaves being alone. So I take risks.

Interestingly, if I was a newbie I would have been under a barrage of SSC stuff from everyone, something I did not consider at the time.

 

[shy slave]

When someone is able to write so beautifully and in such a touching way about an activity that many are afraid of but might simultaneously find hot, I see no reason to turn it into a safety first moment. I just gloried in the words and the emotions they showed us and stirred within us.

If she had NOT trusted him, she likely wouldn't have been in that situation. Her reactions likely would have been very different. I already did know that Shy had gotten to know her man well before meeting him though. I knew that they have continued to care deeply for one another. It makes me happy to think of them as well as some of the other couples on here.

If I had forged a solid relationship with someone online like they did. I can't say what I wouldn't do on the first, second or third meetings. I'm very prone to spontaneous quirky passionate moments anyway.

Before the first demo and play party I went to, I said I wouldn't do anything with a stranger either. Guess what? I was wrong. I haven't yet, but I know I would if other factors were present.

The drive to have what you hunger for is quite strong. The fear that you won't have another chance is too. We can say be safe until we are blue in the face but sometimes you just are pulled to what you MUST try to have. That is life. I've done many dangerous things in my life. I'm lucky to be here quite frankly. Human beings tend to be risk takers even when they know better.

However, none of that entered my mind when reading Shy's incredibly wonderful description of her experience. It touched me and others here in a positive and deep way. I'm very glad she wrote it and shared it with us.

Thank you Shy!

Fury

Thank you
Your comments on the way it was written from someone who writes so well , mean alot to me

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have to say though I am not picking on shy or anyone as I think this is a bigger issue than one or two random posts, I do support what I think Pure is getting at and why. There seems a lot of this fading away, misty eyed, romanticised posting lately of actions without any of the hard facts reality can require taken into account, perhaps because it spoils the story being told...and is followed then by adoration and sentiments expressing these depictions as highly desireable and utterly 'to die for', though not meant literally but which could in reality become so if acted on with the wrong person/s, and advocation of unsafe play simply because it is considered hot...seriously speaking, how many here really think it is hot to wind up dead, especially if it were easily preventable? Can't press the replay button and come back from the dead with a sigh of relief and a giggle to carry on the next day.

While I am all for romance and play, I also get edgy when I see a group of posts such as have been made here over past months which reflect none of the safety issues or possible outcomes, try and continue to promote the perfect image and bury the safety aspects which may be raised by one or two. Where once on this forum people would post links to safety articles etc., and it was read by a lot of the posters and discussed, these days comments show that many do not even look at them but continue to make comments on their idea of how good a certain practice is without any or much real knowledge of the risks beyond how cool it sounds or feels to them. We all know we take risks with many things we do, but especially when there are people on the board which we know are inexperienced and looking to explore, I feel some sort of responsibility in presenting a complete picture more so than a romanticised one without the bumps and bumbles. Just one of my many imperfections which I am finding is not welcomed by some people who play in this lifestyle, but I kinda like living now I found someone who makes living more worthwhile than ever before.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

Thank you
Your comments on the way it was written from someone who writes so well , mean alot to me

You are most welcome.

I truly enjoyed your post on a lot of different levels. Words are one of my greatest passions.

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL, girls I am only 5'3" but have never considered that a disadvantage and risk factor in particular when dealing with men and some I dated were on the very tall and very broad scale, often from an not so soft background. Guess it is also a mindset I had that I did not want to see myself or be seen as a victim based on my stature even when I was 120lb max. I do notice it a bit more now I live in a land of super tall people, women included, but it never makes me feel vulnerable as I just am not wired that way I guess. I just never thought of it that way and admit on a feminist level I find it a bit disturbing women feel they have to accept risk to themselves to date someone...it reminds me too much of abused women I have counselled who lived for years believing they had no choice. I think common sense goes a long way when considering dating someone, not your size or social status or gender.

Catalina

 

[Pure]

response to shy, alice, and furry

shy, thank you for your generous response.
shy said in part,

//I am 4'10" /4'9" If I didn't take risks with men due to my height I would still be a virgin. Its a fact of life that short women take risks when they date a new man. But the alternative is to be alone or be a lesbian. As most women are taller than me, that rules ou[t] lesbianism and leaves being alone. So I take risks.//

You have to decide your own risks, of course. But some risks, like driving through a red light, are usually unnecessary. It is as if you're saying, 'breath play, third day, or be alone.' If you're saying that, it's not a valid set of alternatives. I did not say or suggest, 'take no risks,' but compare going to a man's apt on a first date, and going there and getting tied up and no safety call mechanism in place. I think the latter is unnecessary and unwise, and I'd suggest people avoid it--i.e., that, as a matter of policy, they are NOT going with a stranger to his place and getting tied up. But you are going to do as you see fit. I will return to this point, since the others have made statements.

Alice said,

A general note on risk.....

I am 5'2" and petite. If I remember correctly, Shy is even smaller.

Most guys on the planet (and certainly any whom I would want to date) could physically overpower me in no time flat.

In every single relationship I have ever had, I have therefore been forced to trust the guy before I "had a lot of experience with the person" (to use Pure's phrase).

For someone my size, just being alone in a room with a guy is putting myself at risk for whatever he wants to do.... with or without my consent.

Thanks for your ideas. Should you 'trust' before 'a lot of experience' with a person. You are saying yes, or else singledom looms.
As above, this oversimplifies the matter. You are showing 'trust' if you go to a stranger's apartment, but have a phonecall mechanism in place. You are showing IMO, a foolishly extreme trust, disregarding your safety, is you go with a stranger and allow him to tie you up or choke you. (Which is, incidentally, illegal.)

A specific note on Shy's vignette.....

I thought it was hot because I think Andante is freakin' hot as hell.

[…]
I am referring to the character of the man - the persona projected by his posts, and Shy's posts when she writes about him.

If the PYL in question had been a person whom I find distasteful, I would have had a completely different reaction to the tale.

Again, you will do as you wish, but the above, as any kind of rule does not make sense. In effect, you're saying, 'don't take safety precautions if 1) he's hot, and/or 2) he's shown good character in his internet postings. This is almost too obvious to engage, but I'd recommend following policies, not going by good looks. Bundy had them. I also think it takes a long time, or forerever, to really know someone through the postings he makes, with any degree of confidence.

Furry said,


Before the first demo and play party I went to, I said I wouldn't do anything with a stranger either. Guess what? I was wrong. I haven't yet, but I know I would if other factors were present.

The drive to have what you hunger for is quite strong. The fear that you won't have another chance is too. We can say be safe until we are blue in the face but sometimes you just are pulled to what you MUST try to have. That is life. I've done many dangerous things in my life. I'm lucky to be here quite frankly. Human beings tend to be risk takers even when they know better.

Thanks for your comments, furry. With all due respect, as with Alice, I don't see hunger as a good reason to break a safety policy, though I under hunger makes people do risky things, and even things that really fuck them up-- like impulsively marry.

I think most of us have 'another chance'; that is what phone numbers and email addies allow.

To all my esteemed discussants, wild and free, spontaneous and wonderful:
In a nutshell, I think women should follow policies regarding real life city living and dating, and internet-originated relationship that move to in person encounters.

I've named two: 1) don't get tied up by a stranger in his apt, when no one knows his address and no one is going to call or be called by you. 2)do not let such a person choke you or get into 'breath play,' unless YOU are holding the oxygen line to HIM.

I will use a third to make my last point: 3) you don't walk down dark alleys or laneways at night.

Now, all policies have to have emergency exceptions, but in the first cases the risks need not be assumed. "Playing" at your apt, where a friend lives next door is a reasonably alternative and do not destine you for a nunnery.

What particularly worries me about your replies, shy, alice, and furry, is that you're relying on purely subjective things--an impression of good looks-- for your exceptions to policy. It is as if, for my alleyway rule, you say, "you know it's such a warm night, i'll do it." or "i'm in a good mood, so why be cautious". I think safety is served precisely by NOT making subjective exceptions to your policies.

OK, so all that sound very stuffy and so cautious as to ruin all fun. Well, there is, as Cat said, something to be said for staying alive. This is NOT like the 'sex on the first date' issue, for i too have been a beneficieary. But the stakes there are usually clap or crabs or the person is married. All these things you can recover from. The area of policy i'm talking about has much higher stakes, and "I'm a wild woman" shouldn't lead to disregard for physical safety. Or so I say.

I hope all of you do well and stay well, and the above are meant not as advice to you personally, but simply some ideas for all readers to consider.

 

[alice_underneath]

Thanks for your ideas. Should you 'trust' before 'a lot of experience' with a person. You are saying yes, or else singledom looms.
As above, this oversimplifies the matter. You are showing 'trust' if you go to a stranger's apartment, but have a phonecall mechanism in place. You are showing IMO, a foolishly extreme trust, disregarding your safety, is you go with a stranger and allow him to tie you up or choke you. (Which is, incidentally, illegal.)

You missed my point, Pure.

He can tie me up whether I allow it or not. After that, what happens is entirely up to him.

From a risk perspective, therefore, there really is no difference between me in the apartment of a guy I am getting to know (and am visiting to prepare a nice meal), and Susie in an apartment of a guy she is getting to know (and is visiting in order to scene).

Btw..... when my friends and I were single in Manhattan and dating, we always told each other when, where, and with whom we would spend our evenings.

And, no. We never went home with strangers.

I hope all of you do well and stay well, and the above are meant not as advice to you personally, but simply some ideas for all readers to consider.

I understand and agree with your points about safety issues. All I am really doing is adding to them.

A nefarious character is a nefarious character. If you think it makes a difference to him whether I have agreed to be restrained/choked/whatever, I'd say you are dead wrong.

 

[FurryFury]

I agree there is no excuse for discarding safety rules.

That being said, I think we all know that humans being what they are, safety rules and personal promises will not always be followed. I personally tend to be a very safety minded person, much more so now, than when I was younger.

If I had played at the demo or public party, that would have surprised me as the almost desperate need to do so did, but I wouldn't say it would be unsafe because of the protocols in place by the organization, in spite of the Dom being someone I really didn't know.

When I was most unsafe was when I was 16-21. I was driven then by subconscious needs that would be probably defined as vanilla sexual escapades such as a virgin can agree to.

I think one should listen to that inner voice. It's not always right, I'll admit, but it is very powerful and much smarter than we usually give credit for.

The reason why none of those older men, any one of whom could have raped or killed me on assorted picnics in the woods that I arranged, didn't IMO, is that my intuition was right about them.

At that time I had no sense of mortality. I was very foolish. I wanted the closest thing to love that I could feel and believe in, physical things were all I could conceive of.

It's easy to look at a situation when not in the heat or hunger of the moment and state what should or should not be done. Most of us would agree on that. I'm just saying there are the "shoulds" and then there is the flawed human reality which most of us survive quite well and some of us are willing to admit to.

Fury

 

[NemoAlia]

One of these days I'm gonna buy myself chocoloate shoes. So that when I put my food in my mouth it'll taste good. *sigh*

Mm chocolate!

But seriously... I know breath play is risky. But the risks for sex on the first date aren't simply "clap or crabs or the person is married." You know there's AIDS and date rape and severe psychological trauma. You may not be able to recover. And there are a bazillion ways of killing the person you're with, without choking him/her. Assuming that you want to do it.

Breath play isn't inherently more dangerous, where intentional harm is concerned, than any other sort of sex, in my opinion.

What I think really scares people is the potential for accidental damage. Seizures, or panic, or breaking that tiny little trachea. Even the most well-intentioned Dom/me can cause these things, without having begun the evening with homicidal intentions.

 

[bettiboop]

Thankyou

I have really enjoyed reading these posts. Whether Shy's experience early on with Andante was strictly advisible or not it touched me deeply - as it did some of you - and confirmed to me the feelings I had myself. I was honoured to read it quite frankly.

Setting limits with a new partner is risky because you always want to push them or it wouldn't be any fun. Of course I agree with all the safety advice posted but I wasn't looking personally at new or net based relationships exclusively.

I also agree with Alice in that breath play is really no more or less dangerous than allowing yourself to be dominated in any other fashion. Every dom has the power to harm or even kill if he chooses to abuse it.

For the record I'm 5' and slim built. I've never thought of every encounter as a risk but I know that women have to be savvy these days. The gut reaction that tells you to you're in danger is the same one that tells you when you feel safe. I don't think it's more or less accurate either way. I have been known to over-react a little in the past when I have in fact been perfectly safe and this is a risk that dominant men take.

Anyway, as I said, it's been really interesting and I'm glad I made the post

Betti

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I loved Miss Shys post because she spoke about breath play within the context once again of expressing her love and trust of Andante. As Shy will know from the private correspondence we have shared in the past she does on occasion on all manner of topics in regards to her relationship with Andante express herself in a manner that touches me profoundly and always remain memorable. I also recall a post made by shy on the topic of fellatio in which I also had a similar response .

I see Pure and others have made some very valid points on the topic and I think thats wise. I guess its easy sometimes to forget people less experienced may read posts as an endorsement .

As Catalina has said before there are numerous Threads and the topic is well covered in the Library.

I have participated in more serious discussion of this topic in the past and my concern I believe was quite evident.

Breath Play Thread

I am not recommending the Thread above others on the topic . I placed it because I participated within it.

I promised myself never to venture into this topic on a Thread again because I do live day in day out with the real ramifications of a person who experienced severe hypoxia. I often feel that I can not take a step back and see a full picture. I also admit at times on the topic to have felt unsupported by the general BDSM Community and that hasn't helped.

I stand by my original comment and I also wish to thank Miss Shy once again for sharing an insight that in conjunction with my broader knowledge of the dangers of breath play I 'may' even consider under my own very strict protocols being more open minded to exploring in the future.

 

[bettiboop]

I loved Miss Shys post because she spoke about breath play within the context once again of expressing her love and trust of Andante. As Shy will know from the private correspondence we have shared in the past she does on occasion on all manner of topics in regards to her relationship with Andante express herself in a manner that touches me profoundly and always remain memorable. I also recall a post made by shy on the topic of fellatio in which I also had a similar response .

I see Pure and others have made some very valid points on the topic and I think thats wise. I guess its easy sometimes to forget people less experienced may read posts as an endorsement .

As Catalina has said before there are numerous Threads and the topic is well covered in the Library.

I have participated in more serious discussion of this topic in the past and my concern I believe was quite evident.

Breath Play Thread

I am not recommending the Thread above others on the topic . I placed it because I participated within it.

I promised myself never to venture into this topic on a Thread again because I do live day in day out with the real ramifications of a person who experienced severe hypoxia. I often feel that I can not take a step back and see a full picture. I also admit at times on the topic to have felt unsupported by the general BDSM Community and that hasn't helped.

I stand by my original comment and I also wish to thank Miss Shy once again for sharing an insight that in conjunction with my broader knowledge of the dangers of breath play I 'may' even consider under my own very strict protocols being more open minded to exploring in the future.

Just read the thread link you posted, thank you for it. I totally agree with you that restricting or preventing breathing for any length of time is dangerous and that signals and agreed limits offer only partial protection. As for myself, when we engage in breath-play it is only for maybe 10 seconds at a time. The sensation and the D/s relationship are what get me off - not being asphyxiated to the point of being light-headed or in any danger of losing consciousness. I do understand your concern - especially if you have had a bad experience personally.

Your contribution has been a valuable one and I am happy that you felt able to join the discussion.

Betti x

 

[NemoAlia]

Anyway, as I said, it's been really interesting and I'm glad I made the post...

So are we! Welcome to the forum, by the way

 

[shy slave]

Betti your thread has taken a positive life of its own.
Thank you for enabling that.
Safety issues are important and risks need to be taken within the context of safety.
I have posted on this before but it was early last year, so bear with me if its old news for you.

Andante insisted there were safety measures in place.
I agree with Pure, Bundy was good looking, Ian Huntley (a UK child murderer) was plausible when he spoke about the two young girls disappearance. John Christie (another UK murderer) was both plausible and good looking

So, I was in the position of talking to a Danish man on the 'net who insisted on extreme safety measures.
I did consider it may be a double bluff, and he was in fact a murderer/rapist/weird individual who had a hatred of UK women that he was hiding from the world.

The safety measures he insisted on were:
Emailing me the following
His home address
His personal website which included all the names and contact details of his family
Extensive (to the point of overload) websites that have his details on and information about his friends.
A scanned copy of his passport
His citizen number. We don't have those in the UK so at the time I did not realise how significant that was.

All this information was emailed to my sister (at Andantes insistance and my reluctance), she knew who I was meeting, when I was meeting him and how long we were to be together.

My eldest son spoke to him via net and webcam.
My son also sat me down and gave me a lecture on double bluff calls (and condoms, stds and submission but thats another thread lol)
This means that you have a safe call which you use when you meet and then use again approx two hours later. Two hours is approx the normally given time. This means that once the second call is made the person you are with is then aware he can chop you into tiny pieces without people being suspicious for some time.

Therefore I had to call my sister and my son throughout the three days at unspecificed times. They also called me at unspecified times. Andante spoke to my sister on the phone to verify he was who he said he was.
There were so many calls it was amazing we had any sex at all.
But, I was safe.

Yes it could have gone horribly wrong. But why wait to strangle me?
There are so many different ways he could have caused me harm.
I trusted him because of the levels he went to, to prove he was not an axe murderer.

The thread KC started on Dominant Safety interests me a great deal.
How did he keep himself safe? I don't really know.
He knew my name, he had seen me on cam, he knew my 'phone number. Compared to the information I had on him, he knew almost nothing.
How easily would it have been to have double bluffed him and had him beaten and left for dead?
I am guessing it would have been pretty easy.

Also I had to ask the question 'If he wanted to harm someone, why me?' He had easy driving access to all of Europe, why make the effort and expense of flying to the UK in order to kill me?

Of course people do odd things, I am not suggesting that people do not fly to other countries to commit murder but if you have the whole of Europe to choose from, why choose to get on a plane and fly to the UK to achieve that aim?

Rebecca and others, thankyou for your comments on how you view Andante and I, I just hope you never see us arguing, at those times he is a fucking bastard and I am difficult and intractable. That said I would not change him

 

[shy slave]

Maybe i should not say this, but on reflection I have acted in a safer manner since my involvement with BDSM than I ever did when I dated vanilla men.

I guess I lived in the world of 'It will never happen to me' although at the time that was a sub conscious thought, not blase arrogance.

It was a different time of my life.

Now any more thoughts on breath play?
Who has tried it and had a terrible experience which has made them put it on a hard limit list?
Who would never, ever trust anyone to touch their neck or throat?

Also, if you have known that breath play would be a part of the scene/relationship/sex have you given serious thought to the 'what if..' question and re-looked at your last will & testament as well as your wishes should you die as a result of play?

 

[graceanne]

Mm chocolate!

But seriously... I know breath play is risky. But the risks for sex on the first date aren't simply "clap or crabs or the person is married." You know there's AIDS and date rape and severe psychological trauma. You may not be able to recover. And there are a bazillion ways of killing the person you're with, without choking him/her. Assuming that you want to do it.

Breath play isn't inherently more dangerous, where intentional harm is concerned, than any other sort of sex, in my opinion.

What I think really scares people is the potential for accidental damage. Seizures, or panic, or breaking that tiny little trachea. Even the most well-intentioned Dom/me can cause these things, without having begun the evening with homicidal intentions.

I know. And as long as you realize the risk you're taking I really feel it's not anyone else's business. It realy boils down to RAK vs SSC. A lot of the people here do things that are not 'safe'. I recall Cat mentioning Francisco taking a steel brush to her rear once. But Cat, and you, know the risk you're taking.

On the other hand I agree with Cat about Pure's comments. It is important, when having these discussions (which we do on nearly a yearly basis - always the same outcome) to point out that risk, cause their might be someone reading this thread who hasn't thought it through and only sees the romance of how we talk about it. And frankly both Cat and Pure are a lot nicer about it than Etoile would (will?) be if she sees this thread.

I still LOVE the way that shy put it. It put the feelings and all that totally in mind.

 

[shy slave]

. And frankly both Cat and Pure are a lot nicer about it than Etoile would (will?) be if she sees this thread.
.

Oh Fuck, I forgot about Etoile.



Actually AA has shot me down in the past (pre-Andante) for being dumb in an unsafe situation. I was whining about how unfair a situation was and he almost blasted me off the planet. Not sure, but I think that thread is in the library somewhere

Its a wonder he hasn't said anything this time

 

[catalina_francisco]

Also I had to ask the question 'If he wanted to harm someone, why me?' He had easy driving access to all of Europe, why make the effort and expense of flying to the UK in order to kill me?

Of course people do odd things, I am not suggesting that people do not fly to other countries to commit murder but if you have the whole of Europe to choose from, why choose to get on a plane and fly to the UK to achieve that aim?

LOL, this is also something I used when people tried to caution me and talk me out of meeting F. While there is the slight chance he could have been a nutcase, overall it didn't seem likely to me that he would waste the money on flying 16,000 kms to meet if his intention was to harm me. Like you I also had all the personal info, firstly because he volunteered it including his work online site, and secondly because we planned the marriage ahead of meeting and I had to submit legal documents from him, and he paid for the licence as well as the hotel we were spending time in, in advance. I also had previous positive experiences with other Dominants who travelled from o/s to meet me, so with the normal precautions and checking facts and figures thoroughly, I felt safer than I did with many I had met on home soil and who did not have reason (in their eyes) to offer so much personal information.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

Oh Fuck, I forgot about Etoile.

Well, that's why I'm around. To warn you all. It's also why I avoided this thread for days I was waiting for her to come blast a few people. When she does I'll turn into a ghost like person and disapear from this thread.