Attn: Biggbear8 - plagerism

[Tate]

I'm not here to further inflame the situation, or to attack anyone personally. No one ever held a mature, honest discussion by mud-slinging. I am merely here to present the facts, as I see them.

I personally believe Michelle did write the story, but that is just my opinion, based on the facts:

1. If Michelle did write the story, should she ever need to prove it to anyone, she has all the proof she needs, on her hard drive. Hard disks store EVERYTHING. Including word processor info. On that hard drive would be the original story, and the date is was written.

2. If Biggbear8 didn't write the story, the hard drive would have the proof. It would show the history of him going to a site, copying and pasting it into his own word processor, then running the edit function, to go through and change the title and names of characters, or whatever else he may have done. Clever things these computers, they store a lot more info than you realise, hitting delete just don't do it!

3. It is obvious that the powers that be at Literotica saw truth in Michelle's claim. Why else would they remove all of Biggbear8's 61 stories? As to why he hasn't been banned yet, this is probably because they are giving him the chance to do the right thing and apologise.

4. The story was copied word for word, with just the title and the names of the characters changed.

Anyway, those are the bare facts. I also want to be more subjective in the rest of my post.

As to why Michelle posted a link to her site, this is obviously to show anyone interested that she has her original story there. It is obvious to me that she wrote the story. The style and voice are very similar to the other stories on her site.

By posting this quote I don't want to personally attack Biggbear8, I wouldn't want you all playing the sympathy card on me! However, I am doing it to make a valid point:

Against my better judgement


I did not steal your story that has a fantasy of mine fot a long time a friend suggested i write it in a stiry and thats what Ive done, I worked a long time on it then had it edited

I do not even know where to look for any story you have written

so please stop saying I stole it I didnt

Is this the writing of a man that has legitimately written at least 61 stories (even if he does claim to have them heavily edited)?

As for the claim that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery. Ding ding! Wrong! The actual quote is; "Mimicry is the highest form of flattery".
To mimic is to attempt to emulate the other person. In the context of writing, it is a concerted effort to write like that person, not just copy what they have already written.
Plagiarism is just laziness, not to mention downright illegal!
If Michelle’s work has been plagiarised she has every right to feel aggrieved. She obviously is a talented writer, and must have worked hard to produce that story. To see someone else gaining credit for having written her story is insulting, not flattering.

I am not condoning the actions of anyone in this thread, just trying to point out the facts.

I will leave you all in peace now. Be well and be happy!

 

[rosylady]

I'm not here to further inflame the situation, or to attack anyone personally. No one ever held a mature, honest discussion by mud-slinging. I am merely here to present the facts, as I see them.

I personally believe Michelle did write the story, but that is just my opinion, based on the facts:

1. If Michelle did write the story, should she ever need to prove it to anyone, she has all the proof she needs, on her hard drive. Hard disks store EVERYTHING. Including word processor info. On that hard drive would be the original story, and the date is was written.

2. If Biggbear8 didn't write the story, the hard drive would have the proof. It would show the history of him going to a site, copying and pasting it into his own word processor, then running the edit function, to go through and change the title and names of characters, or whatever else he may have done. Clever things these computers, they store a lot more info than you realise, hitting delete just don't do it!

3. It is obvious that the powers that be at Literotica saw truth in Michelle's claim. Why else would they remove all of Biggbear8's 61 stories? As to why he hasn't been banned yet, this is probably because they are giving him the chance to do the right thing and apologise.

4. The story was copied word for word, with just the title and the names of the characters changed.

Anyway, those are the bare facts. I also want to be more subjective in the rest of my post.

As to why Michelle posted a link to her site, this is obviously to show anyone interested that she has her original story there. It is obvious to me that she wrote the story. The style and voice are very similar to the other stories on her site.

By posting this quote I don't want to personally attack Biggbear8, I wouldn't want you all playing the sympathy card on me! However, I am doing it to make a valid point:




Is this the writing of a man that has legitimately written at least 61 stories (even if he does claim to have them heavily edited)?

As for the claim that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery. Ding ding! Wrong! The actual quote is; "Mimicry is the highest form of flattery".
To mimic is to attempt to emulate the other person. In the context of writing, it is a concerted effort to write like that person, not just copy what they have already written.
Plagiarism is just laziness, not to mention downright illegal!
If Michelle’s work has been plagiarised she has every right to feel aggrieved. She obviously is a talented writer, and must have worked hard to produce that story. To see someone else gaining credit for having written her story is insulting, not flattering.

I am not condoning the actions of anyone in this thread, just trying to point out the facts.

I will leave you all in peace now. Be well and be happy!

He had them remove all his stories and poems not the other way around. And yes he did have all the stories edited by friends.


I know he wrote ALL of his stories. I read most of them before he posted them and if I didn't read them than one of his other friends did.


You are just spouting off the same BS that everyone else has and I hope you are all happy that you have made a sick man, sicker.

 

[Guest]

People do steal stories . . .

It happens.

Since I began submitting work to Lit, 3 different stories of mine have been illegally shown on other websites.

The last time the situation involved quite a few Lit authors (40+) and the person who stole them (remember umma?) listed herself as the author for all.

Once this matter is brought to Laurel's attention, she fixes the problem quickly. Three times and counting.

I took KillerMuffin's advice quite awhile ago. She suggests to periodically do a google search using your story titles in quotation marks. Most importantly, do another search using an unusual phrase or character quote from your story. It should turn up any problems; it has worked for me.

This is a different problem, however, and the rest of us are on the outside looking in because there has been no real proof offered for either side. There has been no substantive proof - only character references from friends.

If Laurel wasn't the one to remove his stories, apparently she didn't believe there was plagiarism involved. She would jump all over the situation if she suspected story theft.

It is very possible to have the same plot line for several different stories. Are there ANY original ideas left? A better clue would be finding exact phrases or scene descriptions (although we are writing smut here - lots of bedrooms, backseats, and shower sex, and I won't even begin to discuss differences in dialogue - where can you go with "Oh God, I'm cummingggggg!" But I digress).

This is a very sad situation that should be private, not public. If biggbear8 is innocent of this but has requested his own stories pulled because of it - what a shame. I hope this matter is dealt with quickly and completely.

 

[DVS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: it was an original way...

Hiya MG,
It works excellently. I have two Hangout visitors on it permanently. I check their occasional posting from time to time and every time am glad I have them still on ignore.

It shows up that they've posted, but you have to deliberately click on the link to see what it is they've said. It's a good function.
WSO

Oh, now I see why you haven't retuned my affections!

 

[gauchecritic]

pleas are tres gauche.

Ooh I thought I'd got a mention from Muffie there. As if.

Gauche

 

[DVS]

Stealing is stealing, but proof is proof. Before there is absolute proof of any stealing, all are innocent.

Like others have said, this is nothing but a "he said, she said" battle of sides. An accusation has been leveled, and it has been denied.

As for any other proof, it would be difficult to show for certain either side's fault in a forum such as this. Computer data is very easy to alter, so trying to prove something this way is only going to make things worse. And, further accusations will only do the same.

Any proof as far as Lit is concerned can only come from Laurel. If she feels it necessary, she will post her findings. As I see it, the sooner, the better. A lynching of sorts is going on, here.

 

[wildrose70]

Against my better judgement


I did not steal your story that has a fantasy of mine fot a long time a friend suggested i write it in a stiry and thats what Ive done, I worked a long time on it then had it edited

I do not even know where to look for any story you have written

so please stop saying I stole it I didnt

Bear you know all your true friends are behind you 100%...don't let someone chase you away...we love you...and we are all here for you.....

 

[MathGirl]

Originally posted by gauchecritic Ooh I thought I'd got a mention from Muffie there.

Dear Gauchie,
I know it doesn't mean as much coming from me, but consider yourself mentioned.
MG
Ps. Someone recently told me about a site that had a story of mine on it. I checked, and there it was, verbatum, in all its mediocrity. With someone else's name on it, of course. I think it was the worst thing I ever wrote and wondered why anyone would want to steal it. It never occurred to me to make a fuss about it.
Pps. Did I misspell 'verbatum?'

 

[wildrose70]

I have never known Bear to be anything but a kind sweet man...who I'm sure would not stoop to stealing anyone's story lines....Please stop crucifying this man!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bear please don't let someone chase you away....

 

[Rescue325]

Re: People do steal stories . . .

[/B][/QUOTE] [This is a very sad situation that should be private, not public. If biggbear8 is innocent of this but has requested his own stories pulled because of it - what a shame. I hope this matter is dealt with quickly and completely. [/B][/QUOTE]


Wouldn't the fact that he asked for every single one to be pulled an admission of guilt?

As an author, I can show hard proof when I wrote each story. Some I submit here. Other's find homes in the paying world. If I wrote something and someone said "Hey I think that's my story" I could show them dates and rough copies of my work. I would fight for my story. Not roll over and die at the first sign of conflict.

Whereas, yes, in this area of writing, there's only so many ways of saying "do me', Michelle is claiming it was her work word for word with the exception of changing the title and the names of the characters. There is no way that 2 authors could come up with the same exact words for an entire story.

Being a nice guy does not excuse one for stealing someone else's work and claiming it for his own.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: People do steal stories . . .

Originally posted by Rescue325
Wouldn't the fact that he asked for every single one to be pulled an admission of guilt?

I do not know what he is thinking; I don't know either person involved. But I know different people respond in different ways.

Whereas, yes, in this area of writing, there's only so many ways of saying "do me', Michelle is claiming it was her work word for word with the exception of changing the title and the names of the characters. There is no way that 2 authors could come up with the same exact words for an entire story.

We (the thread readers) do not have the two stories available in order to compare them. Yes, she is claiming it was word for word, but others are saying it was just a similar plot. So who really knows?

Being a nice guy does not excuse one for stealing someone else's work and claiming it for his own

You should ask Laurel how nice I am when I find people stealing my stories. When we nailed the owners of the last site, she chuckled and wrote that she hoped I never got angry at her!

Bottom line - HE pulled his stories. Laurel would have done it herself if she found evidence of theft. We will probably hear the results of this eventually, but we will get nowhere on this thread without any proof.

 

[cahab]

Originally posted by Tate As for the claim that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery. Ding ding! Wrong! The actual quote is; "Mimicry is the highest form of flattery". [/B]

Actually, if we're going to split hairs, it's "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". Imitation does imply copying. Doesn't say it's good, just that whoever did it means it.

Stop me if I'm wrong, though, but isn't this all a bit juvenile considering all this writing is free anyway? It's not like he tried to make money out of it, even if he did do it, the silly arse. Oh, I'm sorry your honour, strike that from the record.

I'll shut up now.

 

[Guest]

Actually, if we're going to split hairs, it's "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Yours is the phrase I know, Cahab. However, I don't flatter people unless they're stupid (or evil). Flattery is kiss-ass crap, not the same as a true compliment.

Your other points are good too. I keep hoping this thread will die or get wiped out and here I am posting to you! What's that about?

best, Perdita

 

[hiddenself]

I've stumbled on this thread rather late. I love a mystery. I think that BB8's story (or not) should be reposted, because I would love to read the two and make up my mind.

I tried to find it but he's apparently covered his tracks well (he pulled it from "The Erotic Scream" site as well).

As for all the touchy-feely PlayGrounders who came to his defense... Nice and sweet people turn out to do all sorts of bad things all the time. It wouldn't be the first time nor the last.

Humiliation and hounding of plagiarists is one of the most powerful ways to protect one's own work when more formal options are not practical.

The assumption, of course, is that you can (reasonably) prove that someone did steal...

 

[DurtGurl]

Yaawwwwwwnnnnnnn.............

I think this is a good time to shut off the computer, get into bed, play with myself, and have a nice nap. Maybe we should all do that.
Soporifically,
MG

 

[silkynsmooth]

When are we going to see the proof. All I hear in here is a bunch of people on both sides protecting their friends, yet I've seen nothing that tells me that this woman is right.

I have seen stories here that are practically identical and yet 2 different people, it can happen. She should have gotten the proof first before spouting off her mouth.

Bear is a very dear friend to me and to imagine him doing this is not in reality. Michelle I do not know you but we need to see the proof. And just because he pulled his stories doesn't mean a thing, we need HARD facts we can touch and see. That is the only way to tell.

So until you have that please don't bad mouth people, because I don't think you would like to be wrongly accused, the way you did to Bear.

Good Day

Silky

 

[KillerMuffin]

I have no reason, in light of the events, to believe that BB8 did not steal the stories he was accused of stealing. Therefore, to my mind, he deserves all the humiliation and abuse we can slap onto his head.

I am equally irritated by some of the "shame on you for humiliating him" chorus. Please ladies, a site gets accused of story-stealing on the boards and you're all over it like maggots on rotting meat. BB8, a darling of the Playground does the same thing and it's shame on you? Hello hypocrisy.

You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You're throwing stones as fast as you can and you have no room to do so.

 

[Quasimodem]

Melissa Mathison, who received early education from Catholic Nuns, wrote “ET - The Extra Terrestrial.” Not until a reviewer pointed out the fact, had she considered that her story was a Sci-Fi reworking of the Passion Play.

Sometimes what appears to be plagiarism is merely a matter of parallel plot development.

On the other hand, there was this theory that if you had an infinite number of monkeys type for an infinite number of hours on an infinite number of typewriters, they would eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare.

Thanks to the internet, we all recognize the fallacy of that theory.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Michelle I do not know you but we need to see the proof. And just because he pulled his stories doesn't mean a thing, we need HARD facts we can touch and see.

No we don't. The Webmasters do.

They've seen enough proof to pull the story. He's seen fit to remove everything. He should have had his account closed.

I don't have to know either Michelle or BigBear8. I know Laurel and if she's anything, she's fair. She doesn't believe someone just because they shout plagiarism! and she doesn't believe someone just because they say it's theirs either. She was satisfied by whatever information Michelle gave her to pull the story.

Or do you think Laurel should play favorites?

 

[Rainbow Skin]

I've never heard of either of these people, or seen any of their stories, nor do I want to.

But plot similarity is one thing, plagiarism is another. Plots are public domain, even if you invented it. If someone else uses your plot, tough titties. Or it could just be a coincidence.

This is toto caelo different from copying someone's work word for word or just making minor changes. This will be very obvious in every single sentence, never mind the plot; and it can't happen by accident.

It's not clear which one of these is supposed to have gone on. And we can't tell, as we can't compare them. But they're utterly different things.

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Originally posted by DurtGurl
Soporifically,
MG

The joins are beginning to show, dear.

GL

PS. I ain't finished playin wiv da others yet!

 

[MathGirl]

The joins are beginning to show, dear.

Dear GL,
I know. Sometimes, after DG has been on, I come on and don't realize the site thinks it's still her. If that last sentence makes any sense, it's purely accidental.
MG (I think)
Ps. You must admit that my AV and DG's are very similar.

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

I love accidental sense. Somehow, I always feel in comes closer to the truth than the deliberate stuff.

Similarity? I always thought you were identical twins, but one somehow had failed!

GL

 

[DVS]

Dear GL,
I know. Sometimes, after DG has been on, I come on and don't realize the site thinks it's still her. If that last sentence makes any sense, it's purely accidental.
MG (I think)

Sugar (and Spice), they have pretty good drugs these days, just for people like you (both of you).

 

[Raindear816]

Well wonderful people of Lit., I for one am sick of all the bashing. Earlier, I was accusitory toward Michelle in defense of my friend Bear.
It's true KM that we "playgrounders" care for him. It's very easy to get sucked into a denfense mode when someone you care for is being attacked.
I think it is a shame that a person's word is worthless these days, that you have to have proof for credit on anything you've accomplished.
I hope that anyone who has read this thread has learned a lesson. Michelle's feelings were hurt and she was angry because she felt Bear had stolen her story. Bear has pulled his lovely stories from Lit because he has given up. The way I see it, no one has won anything here.
I am personally tired of the bullshit.
All the best to every writer here, and to the one who left today,
~Raindear816~