BDSM and children

[intothewoods]

recently, my Master and i have had to reiterate to his son that he cannot treat me the same way Daddy does. the lil whippersnapper had taken to ordering me about in a very rude manner (get me this, get me that), completely ignoring me if the two of us are alone, when i've told him to do something in line with his Father's demands or rules for him, and only making half-hearted efforts to clean up after himself because, as he put it, "what's the point? she can do it."

part of it i'm sure is the normal selfish jerky-ness that comes with being a 12 yr old, but part of it also is disrespect and not understanding that his own place in the household. so Daddy had a long conversation with him about all of it last week, and things have improved somewhat, but i know that it will likely have to be drilled into his head repeatedly before it really sinks in.

Yep, he's 12, and depending on how his parents treat each other, that may also factor in to his behavior.

If I were in a 24/7 M/s relationship, I wouldn't want to share that dynamic in front of my child. If that weren't practical - I think I would say something like there are all sorts of different relationships that work for people. X and I have together decided that this relationship works for us, but it isn't right for everyone, or even most people. When you get older, you can think about what kind of relationship will work for you.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Yep, he's 12, and depending on how his parents treat each other, that may also factor in to his behavior.

If I were in a 24/7 M/s relationship, I wouldn't want to share that dynamic in front of my child. If that weren't practical - I think I would say something like there are all sorts of different relationships that work for people. X and I have together decided that this relationship works for us, but it isn't right for everyone, or even most people. When you get older, you can think about what kind of relationship will work for you.

well, he understands the dynamics of the relationship his Father and i have, we had that talk long ago, just without the mention of any labels, although from him being a typically snoopy kid and comments he makes every now and again, it's very likely he knows all the terminology as well. he's been raised in an M/s household his entire life, my Master has had custody since he was an infant, and before i came along he had another slave. so he understands what a M/s dynamic entails and how it differs from other relationships. what he doesn't yet seem to understand is that i am not his slave, he is no one's Master, and the fact that simply because one person is subservient to another does not mean that person is not worthy of respect.

 

[northwoods_sub]

I am not in a 24/7 TPE relationship, however my Sir is my husband. We are fairly new to the lifestyle and are just not ready to do TPE until we understand it a little better ( he is afraid of removing my identity and inteligence). With that being said our childrens bedrooms are on the same floor just down the hall from us and I am sure they can hear us in the bedroom, not to mention I am always available to my sir so if he get home from work and desires my attention he receives it. We have installed a lock on our door so they can't just walk in and see mommy tied up getting flogged by daddy but I am sure that they (especially the older boys) are curious to why mommy is screaming.
At this point they probably just think that is what a woman sound like when having sex. lol
I am sure that the day will come when they will find out either through direct questions or by accident but, I plan on discussing it with them as much and as frankly as I have discussed vanilla sex, or drugs with them already. I will not force the information on them though. If and when they ever want to know we will tell them.

 

[coyotepondering]

I am not in a 24/7 TPE relationship, however my Sir is my husband. We are fairly new to the lifestyle and are just not ready to do TPE until we understand it a little better ( he is afraid of removing my identity and inteligence).

I think you'll find TPE thrown around a lot as a phrase and yet it means very different things to the people using it. So, I wouldn't worry about understanding it so much as what you and your Sir want. Then go with that and be happy. The only rules you have to go by are if you're joining an established house or something. If the local kids don't like how you play they're not really good friends anyway.

He can't remove your identity and intelligence. I suppose you could if you wanted to but the truth is that masters (myself included) only own what is given to us. Very weak willed people can be broken and reshaped but in my experience most submissives are very strong willed. They are giving not being created. Trained perhaps but not unmade.

How the dynamic works for you will take a while to feel out. My own slave can be a bit ... of a handful. She is very independent, willful, prideful ... god, I'm at a loss for words. So, she requires a strong hand to reign her in. To hear many of our conversations you would think we're an old married couple who can't stop arguing and me on this side of abusive. What's really going on is a dynamic where she can't help herself but feels this need to assert herself but finds pleasure in me asserting some control.

Does it mean I don't value her and her insights? Of course not. Do we have misunderstandings? Yes. But D/s, even TPE, isn't about life being easy its about another dynamic that requires work to make a successful relationship and all successful relationship require work.

But, I'm headed off topic, lol. Anyway, um ...... yeah, kids and a 24/7 relationship take work too. ummm back on topic?

 

[LunarKitten]

I think you'll find TPE thrown around a lot as a phrase and yet it means very different things to the people using it. So, I wouldn't worry about understanding it so much as what you and your Sir want. Then go with that and be happy. The only rules you have to go by are if you're joining an established house or something. If the local kids don't like how you play they're not really good friends anyway.

He can't remove your identity and intelligence. I suppose you could if you wanted to but the truth is that masters (myself included) only own what is given to us. Very weak willed people can be broken and reshaped but in my experience most submissives are very strong willed. They are giving not being created. Trained perhaps but not unmade.

How the dynamic works for you will take a while to feel out. My own slave can be a bit ... of a handful. She is very independent, willful, prideful ... god, I'm at a loss for words. So, she requires a strong hand to reign her in. To hear many of our conversations you would think we're an old married couple who can't stop arguing and me on this side of abusive. What's really going on is a dynamic where she can't help herself but feels this need to assert herself but finds pleasure in me asserting some control.

Does it mean I don't value her and her insights? Of course not. Do we have misunderstandings? Yes. But D/s, even TPE, isn't about life being easy its about another dynamic that requires work to make a successful relationship and all successful relationship require work.

But, I'm headed off topic, lol. Anyway, um ...... yeah, kids and a 24/7 relationship take work too. ummm back on topic?

I'm a handful

I object!

 

[coyotepondering]

I'm a handful

I object!

*holds boat oar menacingly*

 

[northwoods_sub]

I'm a handful

I object!

I am sure he meant that in the most *er* loving way possible?

 

[LunarKitten]

*holds boat oar menacingly*

*runs and hides in a small, dark place*

 

[Mamid]

fuck fuck fuckety fuck

we can no longer Play when the kids are awake.

DS and DD had an incident today and thankfully, the one affected had just a scare and wasn't injured. we're watching both with hawk eyes in case they do anything like it again.

time for the start of the discussions about the boids and the beyes...

 

[SheDevilShay]

There's a website That I'd recommend reading that I found today...

http://www.goreanwhispers.com/Jewelsbyjade/wife.html

Its got alot of useful advice on it as she has more then 1 child.

 

[intothewoods]

There's a website That I'd recommend reading that I found today...

http://www.goreanwhispers.com/Jewelsbyjade/wife.html

Its got alot of useful advice on it as she has more then 1 child.

I see she calls him Master in front of her kids. It's my opinion, of course, but I don't agree with doing that in front of the kids. I think it's possible to raise kids in that environment with an awareness that this is what works for Mommy and Daddy, but not necessarily for everyone, but I think it's the rare set of parents who can achieve that.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I see she calls him Master in front of her kids. It's my opinion, of course, but I don't agree with doing that in front of the kids. I think it's possible to raise kids in that environment with an awareness that this is what works for Mommy and Daddy, but not necessarily for everyone, but I think it's the rare set of parents who can achieve that.

*shrugs* a name is a name... I call my Dom, Dom to other people out of respect. Daddy infront of our son as thats the name he's used to hearing... (but my Dom and I know what "that" means) Honey, Sweetie, Sir and Master in other area's of our life. It just depends on the situation... Kids are smart... there's no point in hiding things from them provided its not going to traumatize them.. and only each parent knows what would hurt their child or not....

If a child is raised around it and its explained to them as a teenager what it means, how it works (minus the sex stuff) I think they are smart enough to connect the dots and come ot the WRONG conclusions the more you try and hide things....

Kids are nosy by nature most of the time and smarter then people give them credit for.

Also, the more I fight myself on this, the worse my son acts out because he picks up on the "unhappiness"... if we are happy... he's happy.. he behaves much better because things are smoother....

If you just answer, the relationship your father and I have is what works for us and is happy and we will never become a divorce statistic.... I think kids would understand and appreciate that then being miserable all the time...


I don't think I could bring myself personally to refer to my Dom as master in front of our children the way she does... but if he demanded it of me.. I would not be able to deny him. (But this is where communication, trust and emotional closeness come into play.)

 

[HottieMama]

A name is certainly NOT just a name...especially not where children are concerned. (And i am talking small children, not older teens.) They mimic speech and behavior alarmingly fast and i'll be damned if my 3yo is going to start calling me "slut" because he heard my Dom do it. (hypothetical.)


Titles and honorifics can wait until we are in private. Around my children, first names or vanilla pet names (Sweetie, hun..etc.) apply.

 

[SheDevilShay]

A name is certainly NOT just a name...especially not where children are concerned. (And i am talking small children, not older teens.) They mimic speech and behavior alarmingly fast and i'll be damned if my 3yo is going to start calling me "slut" because he heard my Dom do it. (hypothetical.)


Titles and honorifics can wait until we are in private. Around my children, first names or vanilla pet names (Sweetie, hun..etc.) apply.

we've sweared in front of our son and he's never ever repeated the bad words.. he has said it once and we sat him down *he's 3* and we explained why some rules belong to adults and only adults and he cannot use them. He understood our "talk" and he can hear us swear and ignores it and has not repeated it...

we told him it would offend people (like his grandma) if he used these adults words in front of her... and he couldn't goto school (he's really excited about that, thats how I potty trained him. can't goto school if you don't use the potty logic...) so... I really do think gets get more then we give them credit for....

Like i said.. I agree that master is not a word I would feel comfortable using in front of my child, but that is "my" issue... my child probably wouldn't give a flying sheep about it *shrugs*

 

[intothewoods]

Interesting points, and I agree in some respects. Kids are smart, and will connect the dots, and a family based on secrets and lies isn't healthy.

I suppose what it comes down to is what you want to model for your kids, in terms of love relationships. There's nothing wrong with caring for, even taking care of, your spouse, whether it's under the guise of Master/slave is sort of beside the point. On the other hand, introducing the idea that a woman is property? That's a very extreme view and I wouldn't want my kid to think that's the "norm" or the starting point.

At the end of the day, if the kid sees a relationship that is loving, and good for both mommy and daddy, that's invaluable.

 

[alli_cat]

We keep it all very private, I don't find that things need to be discussed in front of the kids at all, it is just as effective to grab my Beloved's hair as he walks past and pull his head back, he knows what that means for later And who is in charge around here!

Toys are locked up in our room, with a lamp and other bits on top so the kids don't even think of looking. Still, we do fantasise about owing our own house and digging out a room underground with a trapdoor down from our room...

 

[ownedsubgal]

...don't see the big deal about using "Master" in front of the kdis. especially if they're exposed to it from an early age..."Master" won't have any greater meaning or connotation to them than "honey." they will understand it's just what mommy calls Daddy, nothing more, and the details can be explained to them when they're older.

in our household when his son is around i always refer to my Master as "Daddy" or "Dad," because it's what's always been done he doesn't see anything weird or unusual about it. as far as physical activities go, as he's gotten older Daddy has been gradually exposing him to more and more. while he's always been aware that i'm physically punished at times (due to an incident when he was 5 and walked in on what we thought was a locked room), we still mostly shielded him to the realities of it. now though when i am in trouble it is not a secret, and if Daddy feels i need to be beaten immediately when his son is home he will do so, just taking me to an unoccupied room but without hiding what we are doing or attempting to muffle the noise in any way.

 

[intothewoods]

we've sweared in front of our son and he's never ever repeated the bad words.. he has said it once and we sat him down *he's 3* and we explained why some rules belong to adults and only adults and he cannot use them. He understood our "talk" and he can hear us swear and ignores it and has not repeated it...

we told him it would offend people (like his grandma) if he used these adults words in front of her... and he couldn't goto school (he's really excited about that, thats how I potty trained him. can't goto school if you don't use the potty logic...) so... I really do think gets get more then we give them credit for....

Like i said.. I agree that master is not a word I would feel comfortable using in front of my child, but that is "my" issue... my child probably wouldn't give a flying sheep about it *shrugs*

Huh. Interesting. My kid also has occasionally heard swear words and won't repeat them. I think they don't have any meaning for him. If we slip and use one, we just kinda move along. I think having a big reaction to it would have made it seem like a word with power.

He is very aware of my different "names" - my first name, Mommy, etc., so I think he would repeat something like Master, and I wouldn't be comfortable with that, because that term is so damn loaded, especially to the non-bdsm world.

 

[SheDevilShay]

Huh. Interesting. My kid also has occasionally heard swear words and won't repeat them. I think they don't have any meaning for him. If we slip and use one, we just kinda move along. I think having a big reaction to it would have made it seem like a word with power.

He is very aware of my different "names" - my first name, Mommy, etc., so I think he would repeat something like Master, and I wouldn't be comfortable with that, because that term is so damn loaded, especially to the non-bdsm world.

I agree wtih you, but I am just playing devil's advocate. (I like to debate so I often like to try and see both "sides" even If I feel strongly on the "other" side.)

I can see how it "could" work, though I think Master in front of my children might be a "hard limit" for me.

 

[SheDevilShay]

...don't see the big deal about using "Master" in front of the kdis. especially if they're exposed to it from an early age..."Master" won't have any greater meaning or connotation to them than "honey." they will understand it's just what mommy calls Daddy, nothing more, and the details can be explained to them when they're older.

in our household when his son is around i always refer to my Master as "Daddy" or "Dad," because it's what's always been done he doesn't see anything weird or unusual about it. as far as physical activities go, as he's gotten older Daddy has been gradually exposing him to more and more. while he's always been aware that i'm physically punished at times (due to an incident when he was 5 and walked in on what we thought was a locked room), we still mostly shielded him to the realities of it. now though when i am in trouble it is not a secret, and if Daddy feels i need to be beaten immediately when his son is home he will do so, just taking me to an unoccupied room but without hiding what we are doing or attempting to muffle the noise in any way.

If you go back 200 years... this life style was common.. and practiced... no one thought it was wrong.. it was the feminist movement that really set us back.... (Not that I don't thikn females should have the RIGHT to vote, and my Dom would never tell me who to vote for since its my right to make up my own mind and he allows it. If he wouldn't let me vote the way I wanted to, I would just ask him to allow me "not" to vote at all... as an example.)

There's abusers in every line and walk of life... this is not abuse. This is wonderful (for us)... and you can teach your children that slowly and only expose them to how much they can handle...

Its sort of like the mom who sat down with her 18 year old and said "now mom I know your a submissive" ....

It can be explained to the kids on what they udnerstand.. its like explaining sex and child birth... how did the baby get there? "daddy put it there"... Oh okay... that answers that question untill they are older and go "well.. wait how does "THAT" work..." then you once again answer the question on the level that satisfies their curiosity... you don't need to "offer" information.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i agree that any "alternative" lifestyle, even a 24/7 M/s dynamic can be exposed to a child in a healthy way by keeping the overt things appropriate to their age and maturity level, and also by staying away from even the slightest hint of secrecy, seediness or wrongness.

 

[intothewoods]

If you go back 200 years... this life style was common.. and practiced... no one thought it was wrong.. it was the feminist movement that really set us back.... (Not that I don't thikn females should have the RIGHT to vote, and my Dom would never tell me who to vote for since its my right to make up my own mind and he allows it. If he wouldn't let me vote the way I wanted to, I would just ask him to allow me "not" to vote at all... as an example.)

There's abusers in every line and walk of life... this is not abuse. This is wonderful (for us)... and you can teach your children that slowly and only expose them to how much they can handle...

You had me until this paragraph. What lifestyle do you mean? Bdsm/kinky sex? Yes, it has been going on since forever and a day. Consensual Master/slave husband/wife relationships? Really? How common was that?

The feminist movement is more than the right to vote, and setting back the bdsm lifestyle, but I digress...

As an aside, I often read posts around here from women who write, I was in abusive relationship, and this isn't abuse - it's so much better! Uhh, awesome? Just because it isn't abuse, physical or emotional, doesn't mean it's a good relationship. It's just a pet peeve of mine. If your relationship, bdsm or vanilla, poly, monogamous, Gorean, Femdomme, whatever, really works for you and your family, then more power to you. But don't be afraid to think critically about it. That's all I'm sayin.'

 

[omniavincet]

My wife and I have just run into these issues with our kids. This summer we started taking our sex life to a new level, incorporating D/s into our relationship in a big way. I tend to be the submissive one most often, not only in sex but in real life. Over the past few months as we have finally expanded our sexual horizons we have gotten more comfortable with everyday patterns that have always been there but not always acknowledged. Basically, though I'm a leader in the rest of my life, my wife wears the pants in our family. If she says do it, I do it, and so do my kids. I don't think it was coincidence that this summer my two sons (10 and 13) started joking with us about what they call "total submission of the male." The first time my eldest dropped that one I had to hide my face. They have no idea about the sexual side, but they're old enough and smart enough to realize that our family doesn't run like most do. We realized that even though they were joking it was a serious issue - they didn't know why in their family dad does the shopping and the cooking and mom makes big decisions when on TV on in their friends' families it goes the other way around. So we have started talking to them about that - not about the sex part, which I don't want to share with them because it's really none of their business and I think they'd freak out - but about how different people are happy with different kinds of lifestyles and relationships. Who knows, maybe they'll wonder when they're older about what that means in terms of their parent's sex lives, but my thinking is that the most important goal in raising the kids is to make sure they are able to figure out what kind of relationships they want to have. Being open about ours is a good way to do that. And I think it's good to be open about people's different sexual preferences in the same way - you can help your kids realize all sorts of things are possible and cool by talking with them. Of course, I'm still hiding the whips, chains, and other goodies...

OV

 

[SheDevilShay]

You had me until this paragraph. What lifestyle do you mean? Bdsm/kinky sex? Yes, it has been going on since forever and a day. Consensual Master/slave husband/wife relationships? Really? How common was that?

The feminist movement is more than the right to vote, and setting back the bdsm lifestyle, but I digress...

As an aside, I often read posts around here from women who write, I was in abusive relationship, and this isn't abuse - it's so much better! Uhh, awesome? Just because it isn't abuse, physical or emotional, doesn't mean it's a good relationship. It's just a pet peeve of mine. If your relationship, bdsm or vanilla, poly, monogamous, Gorean, Femdomme, whatever, really works for you and your family, then more power to you. But don't be afraid to think critically about it. That's all I'm sayin.'

I was in an abusive relationship previously and I do know the difference....

I also agree that critical thinking is imperative to functioning well in a lifestyle like this, especially when society looks down on it.

(Maybe I just didn't speak clearly on my meaning.)

 

[SheDevilShay]

My wife and I have just run into these issues with our kids. This summer we started taking our sex life to a new level, incorporating D/s into our relationship in a big way. I tend to be the submissive one most often, not only in sex but in real life. Over the past few months as we have finally expanded our sexual horizons we have gotten more comfortable with everyday patterns that have always been there but not always acknowledged. Basically, though I'm a leader in the rest of my life, my wife wears the pants in our family. If she says do it, I do it, and so do my kids. I don't think it was coincidence that this summer my two sons (10 and 13) started joking with us about what they call "total submission of the male." The first time my eldest dropped that one I had to hide my face. They have no idea about the sexual side, but they're old enough and smart enough to realize that our family doesn't run like most do. We realized that even though they were joking it was a serious issue - they didn't know why in their family dad does the shopping and the cooking and mom makes big decisions when on TV on in their friends' families it goes the other way around. So we have started talking to them about that - not about the sex part, which I don't want to share with them because it's really none of their business and I think they'd freak out - but about how different people are happy with different kinds of lifestyles and relationships. Who knows, maybe they'll wonder when they're older about what that means in terms of their parent's sex lives, but my thinking is that the most important goal in raising the kids is to make sure they are able to figure out what kind of relationships they want to have. Being open about ours is a good way to do that. And I think it's good to be open about people's different sexual preferences in the same way - you can help your kids realize all sorts of things are possible and cool by talking with them. Of course, I'm still hiding the whips, chains, and other goodies...

OV

See I think this is 100% what I meant, but as my child is 3... I cannot "show" you what I mean.