BDSM and Impregnation

[sunfox]

sunfox,

[regarding OSG and Catalina's regimens]
//Everyone -except- for you seems to see the distinction, Pure. //

Not true. I have an argument partly from silence, but I think it's plausible: If you read Catalina's posting right after mine, a) she does not object to my proposal, and b) she agrees that one likely doesn't have the facts to make a decision/distinction. Which is to indicate, as I read her, that my proposal of 'no difference' is at least possible.

You want more soup???




PS Let her correct my reading of her, if necessary. I welcome it.

Only quoting part of my post misses the main point in it.

"There is a rather obvious set of differences from Catalina's posts to OSG's posts of what are usual in their lifestyle, and Catalina has frequently mentioned that the welfare of her child would come first where necessary. In OSG's case, it cannot necessarily be inferred that this would be so."

Thus, what I am basing my opinion on -are- Catalina's own words on the subject, and OSG's own words on the subject. Quotes taken out of context aren't worth much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[catalina_francisco]

sunfox,

[regarding OSG and Catalina's regimens]
//Everyone -except- for you seems to see the distinction, Pure. //

Not true. I have an argument partly from silence, but I think it's plausible: If you read Catalina's posting right after mine, a) she does not object to my proposal, and b) she agrees that one likely doesn't have the facts to make a decision/distinction. Which is to indicate, as I read her, that my proposal of 'no difference' is at least possible.

You want more soup???




PS Let her correct my reading of her, if necessary. I welcome it.

LOL. Well yes I obey, or at least try to. One day I will get it right. But also first I didn't have to concern myself with F's tendencies with children though he had been fairly vocal about it anyway, secondly my baby is 18 and though he has his share of problems he is not backward in saying what he thinks (sheesh can't imagine where he got that from ); and thirdly it is physically impossible for me to be having any more bambinos, so if it were to happen I would be too excited about our financial future (well he is a saint so maybe I could have an immaculate conception ) so it might take awhile to get around to thinking how F would be with a child.

Actually it was more a posting saying there are many things unspoken that could change a lot of perceptions, not least of all whether people are real or whether they enjoy raising a few eyebrows for their own amusement or goodness knows what. Online identities are just that until someone has met another and knows for sure they are more than a created personality on a discussion board.

Catalina

 

[Romany]

I have come very late to this thread, and have read it all *phew that was some feat*

What I find scarey in all of this, is not that OSG has fantasies, nor indeed what the content of those fantasies are; after all no one can be jailed for thinking of murder (for example, I am not assuming anyone here wishes to commit murder), but only for carrying out a murder - it's that were her fantasies to become a reality she would abdicate all responsibilities, moral obligations, maternal instincts et al, if her daddy deemed it necessary.

To quote her most recent post:-

"Limbhugger, that question has been answered, perhaps you missed my response. i am a slave. so of course, if my Master decided he wanted to impregnate and have a child with me, that is what would happen, assuming nature allowed it. how the child would be raised would be up to him as he would be the parent. giving birth does not give me rights. i understand the entire concept of this is entirely foreign to you as you are not in a TPE or M/s relationship. but our lifestyle is something we take very seriously...it is not a kink or about sexual kicks for us. my status as slave is absolute and there are no exceptions. "

It might not give her rights, but surely to god it gives her moral obligations? Also, if she has no intention of raising any child spawned in this way with buckets of love then she should NEVER consider making this fantasy a reality, even if GOD himself came down and told her to, let alone her daddy.

Quoting her again:-

"yes, it IS a fantasy of mine, a long-standing one, to be impregnated by my Master and for him to raise the child up in our ways. and yes the child would be his slave because in the fantasy, the child is a girl. it's a fantasy we both enjoy talking about and getting each other all hot and bothered thinking about, but it's not something that either of us would ever desire to make a reality, even if it were possible. maybe Limbhugger you do not have any fantasies that you do not truly wish to happen, but still give you warm tingles to imagine?"

This paragraph reeks of sexual innuendo, and she can deny it as hotly as she likes, but the wording is clearly meant to show what her fantasy entails, and I doubt very much they she and her daddy get 'hot' simply over the thought of the fictional daughter fetching and carrying and bowing low when daddy enters the room etc. Also it's patently obvious, that any child would be beaten as OSG states that the child would be 'raised up in our ways', and as she has made clear in the post, and I gather other posts, Daddy is quite keen on giving her a beating when and where he feels like it.

A final quote from OSG:-

"actually Etoile, i meant this even in a legal sense. were the world to go topsy-turvy and my Master were to have a child with me, appropriate legal measures would be made by him to deny me of any parental rights even in the eyes of the law. when Daddy says that no slave of his will have any rights, then he means no slave of his will have any rights."

Presumably, no child of daddy's shall have any rights either!

No one has picked up on the fact that OSG would happily not only forego any rights/obligations etc to her child, she would fall over backwards to make sure that her daddy had the only legal rights over any such child. What would happen to said fictional daughter if daddy, for example, died. OSG would have no bloody rights over her, and she would be taken into care. Mind you, if she was simply being created to serve her daddy while her mummy sits back and watches, (Rose and Fred West spring to mind here), then that would no doubt be a good thing.

I sincerely hope that both OSG and her daddy have been 'treated' so that no offspring could EVER be created.

 

[Etoile]

It might not give her rights, but surely to god it gives her moral obligations? Also, if she has no intention of raising any child spawned in this way with buckets of love then she should NEVER consider making this fantasy a reality, even if GOD himself came down and told her to, let alone her daddy.

Please don't impose your religious beliefs on others who may not share them. Thanks.

No one has picked up on the fact that OSG would happily not only forego any rights/obligations etc to her child, she would fall over backwards to make sure that her daddy had the only legal rights over any such child. What would happen to said fictional daughter if daddy, for example, died. OSG would have no bloody rights over her, and she would be taken into care. Mind you, if she was simply being created to serve her daddy while her mummy sits back and watches, (Rose and Fred West spring to mind here), then that would no doubt be a good thing.

I imagine that osg's case would be not unlike that of a surrogate mother employed by a gay male couple. This happens in that situation all the time. One of the fathers impregnates a woman (by any variety of methods, from sex to artificial insemination, and sometimes it's not even the carrier's egg) and that woman gives birth to a child. She then signs away all of her parental rights to the biological father. In some cases there is a second-parent adoption involved too. But it's not an uncommon scenario.

I sincerely hope that both OSG and her daddy have been 'treated' so that no offspring could EVER be created.

Again with the insults? I'd have thought that reading through all of the similar insults earlier in this thread would have assured you that you didn't need to add another.

 

[the shadow of a boy]

Originally posted by Romany
It might not give her rights, but surely to god it gives her moral obligations...

Please don't impose your religious beliefs on others who may not share them. Thanks.

I really, really hope a thread doesn't result from this comment, but the idea that people have 'moral obligations' (to whomever) does not in-of-itself constitute a religious belief (see note 1). Despite the fact that Romany coached the objection in those terms. And, despite his rudeness, which I find objectionable myself, he has not in point of fact (nor ever can in this forum) imposed his religious beliefs upon OSG.
I raise this objection, which now constitutes a post which is off-topic from the posts that were off topic to begin with, because the idea that one should not 'impose' beliefs on others who do not share them appeals to a particular (secular, yes) creed. And the idea that the speech of any given individual can 'impose belief' is, to my mind, a dogmatic variation of that creed. That it suffices to ask Romany "not to impose..." without explaining why he should not is to effectively claim that this creed constitutes a fundamental, unbreachable community standard. That the response (perhaps unintentionally) positions itself, by itself, as a sufficient and irrefutable answer to the fundamental unease that he voiced, is to me objectionable itself, and essentially (through a silent majority appeal) imposes a system of belief much more effectively than the post being objected to.

PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW THIS UP IN THIS THREAD.
The correct place for this discussion is either in TPE Ethics, hypothetical situations, power and responsibility or here


[Note 1: Do you object to insurance companies ceasing coverage for liabilities whenever possible? Hospitals overcharging those without medical insurance? The CIA (under current administrative guidelines only) conducting assassinations at the sole discretion of the agency? 'Tourists' having sex with [insert age between 12 and 14 ] year old girls in [insert country or state]? Legal aid advising clients to accept a plea bargain regardless of the evidentiary probability of a conviction? If you answered 'yes' to any of these or one of a thousand other such questions, then the basis of your objection is, de facto, the idea of a moral obligation on the part of the censurable party. These and a thousand other potentially objectionable acts and circumstances are entirely legal.]

 

[Etoile]

I really, really hope a thread doesn't result from this comment, but the idea that people have 'moral obligations' (to whomever) does not in-of-itself constitute a religious belief (see note 1). Despite the fact that Romany coached the objection in those terms. And, despite his rudeness, which I find objectionable myself, he has not in point of fact (nor ever can in this forum) imposed his religious beliefs upon OSG.
I raise this objection, which now constitutes a post which is off-topic from the posts that were off topic to begin with, because the idea that one should not 'impose' beliefs on others who do not share them appeals to a particular (secular, yes) creed. And the idea that the speech of any given individual can 'impose belief' is, to my mind, a dogmatic variation of that creed. That it suffices to ask Romany "not to impose..." without explaining why he should not is to effectively claim that this creed constitutes a fundamental, unbreachable community standard. That the response (perhaps unintentionally) positions itself, by itself, as a sufficient and irrefutable answer to the fundamental unease that he voiced, is to me objectionable itself, and essentially (through a silent majority appeal) imposes a system of belief much more effectively than the post being objected to.

Sorry, I can't help responding to this directly, but I feel confident it can end here.

I don't mean to suggest at all that moral obligations have anything to do with religious beliefs. Romany was pretty explicit with statements about God, though, and assigned the gender of male. I am an atheist, I'm completely non-religious, though I was born Jewish and raised Unitarian Universalist and dabbled a bit in Wicca. If there is a god, I'm not at all certain it's a male. It was Romany's specific statements I was taking issue with - this thread has been full of discussion of morals and ethics and I didn't respond to that.

 

[the shadow of a boy]

Sorry, I can't help responding to this directly, but I feel confident it can end here....

Ok, you're right. As far as I'm concerned, it can end here.

Those who find that Etoile's post does not assuage the desire to berate directly me are welcome to do so here.

 

[Etoile]

Ok, you're right. As far as I'm concerned, it can end here.

Those who find that Etoile's post does not assuage the desire to berate directly me are welcome to do so here.

The only thing I feel the need to berate you for is not starting that thread (albeit in the wrong place), but advertising it here while not actually saying anything useful.

 

[the shadow of a boy]

The only thing I feel the need to berate you for is not starting that thread (albeit in the wrong place), but advertising it here while not actually saying anything useful.

I was agreeing with you, and trying to contain further damage to GBB's thread, which she has most likely abandoned as a lost case. I hadn't meant to 'advertise' per se.

I am truly apologetic regarding the misplacement of the thread. Where should it be started? And should I re-start it and edit my posts, or will a moderator move it automatically?

PM reply will suffice.

 

[Romany]

To answer Etoile:-

"Please don't impose your religious beliefs on others who may not share them. Thanks."


"I don't mean to suggest at all that moral obligations have anything to do with religious beliefs. Romany was pretty explicit with statements about God, though, and assigned the gender of male. I am an atheist, I'm completely non-religious, though I was born Jewish and raised Unitarian Universalist and dabbled a bit in Wicca. If there is a god, I'm not at all certain it's a male. It was Romany's specific statements I was taking issue with - this thread has been full of discussion of morals and ethics and I didn't respond to that.


Firstly Romany is female....... "

Secondly Romany is not christian, but in a world where christianity is one of the largest forms of religion, used a christian example of whatever other religions' worship..... ie. God.

I am in fact a Pagan.

I was not imposing any religious belief on anyone.... I did not say that morals and religion are intertwined. I could just as easily have said The USA President, or the Queen of England......

Thirdly Romany did not determine that God is male, surely the bible did that?


"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sincerely hope that both OSG and her daddy have been 'treated' so that no offspring could EVER be created.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again with the insults? I'd have thought that reading through all of the similar insults earlier in this thread would have assured you that you didn't need to add another."

It wasn't an insult, it was a sincere wish to protect the rights of any unborn children. As a mother I feel VERY strongly that children should be protected from any and ALL forms of abuse and that includes parental abuse be it emotional, physical or sexual. I was simply intoning a plea that, from the way it has been worded, it would appear that neither OSG nor her daddy seem to make good parents, and that as such neither of them should ever bring a child into this world.

My daughter was brought up in a house where there was physical violence shown to me. She was never herself abused in any way, but even the violence she saw happening to me has coloured her entire outlook on life.

Whether we care to admit it or not, children ARE affected by the way we raise them, and much as some children can suffer horribly as children and yet still make good stable adults, far many more suffer traumas for the rest of their life.

Surely there are more than enough damaged individuals in this world without seeking to create another one?

If my beliefs that children are the most precious gift we can receive and that they should be protected even to the extent of giving up our own life for them, are offensive and rude, then I apologise.

 

[Etoile]

Firstly Romany is female....... "

Secondly Romany is not christian, but in a world where christianity is one of the largest forms of religion, used a christian example of whatever other religions' worship..... ie. God.

I am in fact a Pagan.

I was not imposing any religious belief on anyone.... I did not say that morals and religion are intertwined. I could just as easily have said The USA President, or the Queen of England......

Thirdly Romany did not determine that God is male, surely the bible did that?

I'm sorry we can't come to an agreement, but I still see your last comment as an insult. I don't have a problem with the beliefs you expressed, I have a problem with the way you expressed them. To me, you were basically saying "wow, osg and her Daddy are really fucked up, they should be sterilized."

I never said you were male. You didn't read my post clearly enough. I said that you said God was male. Which you did. And by stating that the Bible determined God is male, you are imposing religious beliefs on me. I don't believe in that God, I don't believe in that Bible.

 

[Pure]

etoile said,

// I said that you said God was male. Which you did. And by stating that the Bible determined God is male, you are imposing religious beliefs on me. I don't believe in that God, I don't believe in that Bible.//

"Impose" carries the idea of forcing or compelling or setting up authority over.

I fail to see how any statement posted to a forum is 'imposing' anything on anyone.

Surely every seasoned participant, esp. you, etoile, looks as each posting as if prefaced by "It's my opinion that...."

IF she had said, "You're obligated to believe God is male-- and lacking that, you'll be imprisoned as a heretic." THAT is imposing.

 

[Romany]

Etoile,

Quote:-

I never said you were male. You didn't read my post clearly enough. I said that you said God was male. Which you did. And by stating that the Bible determined God is male, you are imposing religious beliefs on me. I don't believe in that God, I don't believe in that Bible."

And you didn't read my post correctly either. I don't believe in God myself, so how can I be imposing the belief that he exists on you if I don't believe in Him?? And I can hardly be accused of imposing religious beliefs on you because I quoted from a book, ie. the bible.

As for my insult, take it anyway you please. It's my opinion, I am entitled to my opinion and I won't apologise to you for holding it. Anyone who abuses a child in any way shape or form has no rights to be called mother or father. If that's an insult, then yes I was hurling one.

 

[ownedsubgal]

[
As for my insult, take it anyway you please. It's my opinion, I am entitled to my opinion and I won't apologise to you for holding it. Anyone who abuses a child in any way shape or form has no rights to be called mother or father. If that's an insult, then yes I was hurling one. [/B]

and who here has abused a child, or has spoken of abusing a child? Romany, your first post on this thread made quite a few assumptions...the assumption of child abuse occuring if my fantasy were to become reality (which it wil not, as has been stated repeatedly)...the assumption that i would not love a child borne between my Master and i, the assumption that i would "happily not only forego any rights/obligations etc to her child, she would fall over backwards to make sure that her daddy had the only legal rights over any such child" (this completely ignores the reality of my being a slave and not having any choice or say in such a matter to begin with)...the assumption that my Master would be an unfit parent (also the assumption that he is not already a parent...and an awesome one at that)....did i miss any?

aside from all these assumptions, one point unfortunately needs reiterating...this is all over a fantasy...all of this disrespect, bashing, and just general rudeness...all over a fantasy. and not merely a fantasy, a fantasy that will remain so, one primary reason it will remain fantasy being the fact that neither i nor my Master would even DESIRE such a thing in reality. again, maybe some cannot relate because they only fantasize about things they wish to happen. maybe some cannot relate to having fantasies of such an extreme, and yes perverse, nature that you do not even really WANT the fantasy to come true anyway, but you are just perverse enough to have the fantasy in the first place.

 

[Pure]

and so we go, 'round and 'round the mulberry bush

 

[Etoile]

and so we go, 'round and 'round the mulberry bush

Who's the monkey and who's the weasel?

 

[Pure]

I got my weasel, you got yours?

 

[catalina_francisco]

TODAYS LESSON

One day a farmer's donkey fell down into a well. The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally, he decided the animal was old, and the well needed to be covered up anyway; it just wasn't worth it to retrieve the donkey. Sadly he invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well.

At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly. Then, to everyone's amazement he quieted down. A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well. He was astonished at what he saw. With each shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing. He would shake it off and take a step up. As the farmer's neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and happily trotted off!

Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a stepping-stone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up.

Remember the five simple rules to be happy:

1. Free your heart from hatred - Forgive.
2. Free your mind from worries - Most never happen.
3. Live simply and appreciate what you have.
4. Give more.
5. Expect less

NOW -------- Enough of that crap . . .
The donkey later came back and bit the nuts off of the farmer who had tried to bury him. The gash from the bite got infected, and the farmer eventually died in agony from septic shock.

MORAL FROM TODAY'S LESSON:
When you do something wrong and try to cover your ass, it always comes back to bite you.

What this has to do with this thread well nothing really but since we have been talking about weasels and monkeys I thought I would throw in a farmer and a donkey.

Francisco.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

and who here has abused a child, or has spoken of abusing a child? Romany, your first post on this thread made quite a few assumptions...the assumption of child abuse occuring if my fantasy were to become reality (which it wil not, as has been stated repeatedly)...the assumption that i would not love a child borne between my Master and i, the assumption that i would "happily not only forego any rights/obligations etc to her child, she would fall over backwards to make sure that her daddy had the only legal rights over any such child" (this completely ignores the reality of my being a slave and not having any choice or say in such a matter to begin with)...the assumption that my Master would be an unfit parent (also the assumption that he is not already a parent...and an awesome one at that)....did i miss any?

aside from all these assumptions, one point unfortunately needs reiterating...this is all over a fantasy...all of this disrespect, bashing, and just general rudeness...all over a fantasy. and not merely a fantasy, a fantasy that will remain so, one primary reason it will remain fantasy being the fact that neither i nor my Master would even DESIRE such a thing in reality. again, maybe some cannot relate because they only fantasize about things they wish to happen. maybe some cannot relate to having fantasies of such an extreme, and yes perverse, nature that you do not even really WANT the fantasy to come true anyway, but you are just perverse enough to have the fantasy in the first place.

you know, i wasnt going to reply to this thread again, but this post really irks me.

FANTASY. FANTASY. FANTASY. you keep saying this word over and over again. but earlier, you said that IF your master changed his mind and decided he wanted to have a little slave girl, you would do it. there is no getting around that.

can you not understand why that would upset people? sure you say "my master has no desire to do that in real life". then in the next sentence you say "sure some part of me wishes it could come true". like limbhugger said, you contradict yourself all the time.

ppl change. the point is, that everyone keeps dancing around, the ppl who are trying to defend you, is that if he changed his mind tomorrow and asked you to have a slave girl for him, YOU WOULD.

so dont come in here and say "i dont know why ppl are getting upset over a fantasy". becuase that is bullshit. ppl are upset becuase you would make it a reality if he asked.

being a slave does not absolve you of repsonsibilty to your child. maybe in your dream world it does, but in reality, it doesnt.

and please, no one come in here and tell me i dont understand TPE, becuase that is an excuse. i totally understand TPE. i understand shes a slave, no rights, bla bla. but im sorry, having a child makes it a whole new ballgame.

 

[shy slave]

Thank you Francisco Sir, for that piece of sanity on a difficult thread.
I thought I was losing the plot, but maybe not.

 

[ownedsubgal]

you know, i wasnt going to reply to this thread again, but this post really irks me.

FANTASY. FANTASY. FANTASY. you keep saying this word over and over again. but earlier, you said that IF your master changed his mind and decided he wanted to have a little slave girl, you would do it. there is no getting around that.

can you not understand why that would upset people? sure you say "my master has no desire to do that in real life". then in the next sentence you say "sure some part of me wishes it could come true". like limbhugger said, you contradict yourself all the time.

ppl change. the point is, that everyone keeps dancing around, the ppl who are trying to defend you, is that if he changed his mind tomorrow and asked you to have a slave girl for him, YOU WOULD.

so dont come in here and say "i dont know why ppl are getting upset over a fantasy". becuase that is bullshit. ppl are upset becuase you would make it a reality if he asked.

being a slave does not absolve you of repsonsibilty to your child. maybe in your dream world it does, but in reality, it doesnt.

and please, no one come in here and tell me i dont understand TPE, becuase that is an excuse. i totally understand TPE. i understand shes a slave, no rights, bla bla. but im sorry, having a child makes it a whole new ballgame.

sigsauer, having a child would change many things. many, many, MANY things. one thing however that would not change, is my status as slave, and the fact that i do not have ownership over my own body or what comes from that body. including a child. as i stated before, giving birth would not make me a mommy, and would not give me any parental rights. that is the reality of our lives.

as for contradictions, i have made none. yes, i am talking about a fantasy. PURE fantasy. and yes i stated there's a small part of me that wishes it come true...the part of me that dreams up the fantasy in the first place, the part of me where the deepest, darkest perversions flourish. this does not equate to a desire to make the fantasy reality. i do not truly want my deepest, darkest perversions to come to pass. any of them. simply because they are so deep and so dark and so drastically against the core of who i truly am, and what i believe in. does that stop me from dreaming up these fantasies? of course not. i'm a pervert, i will have such fantasies for the rest of my waking days. but my perversion does not consume me. it is not all i am...and actually with me, it is only a very small part of my nature. maybe this is not something you personally can relate to sigsauer...to having conflicts in your nature...to be able to writhe in sexual ecstasy just by the mere thought of a particular thing, yet at the same time cry tears of sorrow and horror at the thought of the REALITY of that particular thing. it's something i struggle with at times, a struggle my Master shares with me, but together we have learned to not simply accept it, but view it as a bit of a blessing.

now on to the next point...yes of course if my Master decided we would have a child between us, and if it were physically possible to do so, then that is what would happen. i have no control over that. and how the child would be raised (repeating myself again) would be entirely up to him. if another slave is what he desired, that is what would be. i have no control over that, either. but it's soooooo utterly ridiculous and pointless to even discuss such things, because they are NOT possibilities, for more reasons than i could ever count. the uppermost reason being, it is not what i OR my Master would EVER, EVER want. re-read what i just explained about dark perversions, if you like, for an explaination.

 

[Etoile]

Doesn't anybody realize that it's just a fantasy for osg's Master, too? It's a fantasy for both of them. If he asked her to do it, osg would do it. But he's not going to, because it's a fantasy. Not real.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Doesn't anybody realize that it's just a fantasy for osg's Master, too? It's a fantasy for both of them. If he asked her to do it, osg would do it. But he's not going to, because it's a fantasy. Not real.

doesnt anybody understand thats what upsetting some of is is the fact that if he DID ask her to do it, she would?

 

[the shadow of a boy]

sigsauer, having a child would change many things. many, many, MANY things. one thing however that would not change, is my status as slave, and the fact that i do not have ownership over my own body or what comes from that body. including a child...

as for contradictions, i have made none. yes, i am talking about a fantasy...

now on to the next point...yes of course if my Master decided we would have a child between us, and if it were physically possible to do so, then that is what would happen. i have no control over that. and how the child would be raised (repeating myself again) would be entirely up to him. if another slave is what he desired, that is what would be. i have no control over that, either....

I think you should re-read what you've written, because it manages to re-inforce sigsauerprinces' point, and it will make everyone who's been upset by you comments - even those who understand that you are, indeed, talking about a fantasy - upset all over again.

The gist of your last paragraph, as far as I understand it, is that you would be unable to prevent your child from being raised as 'another slave', that you would not feel responsible for (or even consider) any harm done to your child because of that, and that you should not be held responsible nor be blamed for your cooperation with your master in this circustance, because of your surrender of power in the TPE relationship.

As far as moral reasoning goes, this is in error. To put it bluntly, the powerlessness you claim would guide your actions in this hypothetical situation is itself a fantasy. We are talking about years in which you would fail to seek help for your child; in which you would be complicit in the hypothetical abuse. You do not even make it sound like this complicity would be motivated by overwhelming fear. It sounds like it would be entirely enthusiastic.

It is not so much your fantasy - or even your unwillingness to leave it behind in a hypothetical 'actual situation' - that bugs me, so much as the notion that you're missing the point willfully.

 

[ownedsubgal]

doesnt anybody understand thats what upsetting some of is is the fact that if he DID ask her to do it, she would?

this would only upset those who do not truly understand the dynamics, the realities, of a Master/slave union. the very thought completely ignores the fact that i am a slave, as if by having a child i'm no longer a slave, but a roaring, independent, do-for-myself modern woman, whose slavery is nothing but a game that was fun for a while, but now "real life" has come into play, and nothing will come before my child, including "Master". this is an attitude of those who do not take our (referring to the lifestyle of Daddy and i) way of life seriously. who view it as something borne out of kink and sexual kicks, with nothing whatever to do with reality. this is who we are. it IS our reality. it is the ONLY reality in which i could ever even hope to find fulfillment or happiness. no, not many can relate or understand, not many wish to understand. but it's us.

(btw, my Master would never "ask" me to do anything...another thought that ignores the realities of slavery).

and what's being ignored most of all here (except by those like Etoile) is the fact that this is allll a fantasy...and not merely a fantasy, but a fantasy that neither of us even WANTS to become a reality, even if it were possible. i think some just can't comprehend such a thing.