BDSM, Hunting, and Societal Perspectives

[Pure]

As another poster alluded to, I think the best hunting would be 'man on man', as in the old movie "most dangerous game."
Let singles or teams go after one another to the death, in a delimited area, without weapons that work at more than 50 yards.

 

[bridgeburner]

It's a rare person who wants to face death every time he or she engages in a challenging hobby.




-B

 

[bridgeburner]

A note about the equality and humane-ness of non-human predators and the idea that only humans kill for fun:

I've lived with and around many cats in my lifetime. I never once saw a single one of them actually eat a mouse or rat or grasshopper that it caught. The prey was brought down and played with and then left on the doorstep or not simply for the sheer fun of it.

Ditto quite a few country dogs that would bring down small game. They didn't do it because they were hungry and they didn't eat the kills. They did it because it was entertaining.



-B

 

[Pure]

bb:
/It's a rare person who wants to face death every time he or she engages in a challenging hobby./

Well, there's "paintball" for the wusses!

It's a rare animal that wants to face death every time a human engages in a challenging hobby.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've lived with and around many cats in my lifetime. I never once saw a single one of them actually eat a mouse or rat or grasshopper that it caught. The prey was brought down and played with and then left on the doorstep or not simply for the sheer fun of it.
-B

HI BB,

Cats hunt even when they are full; cats have a natural desire to store food for more scarce times. An example in nature is that of the leopard placing a catch in a tree. To our cats, our homes are those trees and are thus the place where the catch is brought & stored. A domesticated cat views people as either parents or children that need help, it feels compelled to bring us food.

Francisco.

 

[sunfox]

HI BB,

Cats hunt even when they are full; cats have a natural desire to store food for more scarce times. An example in nature is that of the leopard placing a catch in a tree. To our cats, our homes are those trees and are thus the place where the catch is brought & stored. A domesticated cat views people as either parents or children that need help, it feels compelled to bring us food.

Francisco.

Dogs actually have the same tendency.. bringing food to those unable to hunt. A pack mentality that carries over from lupine origins. And my dogs actually do eat what they kill... disgustingly, one of them has attempted to regurgitate for me.

I knew it was a sign of affection, but the half digested rabbit wasn't exactly what I was looking for as a lunch tidbit.

Edited to add: My cat also eats what he hunts.. usually only the first thing he catches. Then, and only then, does he bring anything else captured to leave on the step or offer inside the house. He's extremely well fed... it's just a hunting instinct.

 

[MissTaken]

Hunting is legislated to address the need of wildlife management and regulates the same.

As there are men and woman who enjoy hunting for sport, it takes the burden off the government to hire people to maintain acceptable levels of wildlife in the environment.

Judge hunters as you will and be happy they don't judge you (meaning no one in particular.)

Now, as to the sport of hunting, unfortunately people are misguided in thinking that hunting is about waking up, grabbing a gun and shooting a helpless animal. The draw isn't necessarily the kill as much as it is the skill necessary to locate the prey, take them down and yes, eat them or make trophies of them.

This is not so different than a vanilla assuming that a Dominant is an abusive person who enjoys beating the crap out of somebody solely to beat the crap out of them. There is far more to BDSM and there is far more to hunting than meets the uninformed eye.

I won't judge a hunter for enjoying what they do anymore than I will judge a video game fanatic for sitting in front of the tv and munching on junk food all day.

Whatever floats your boat as long as you don't sink mine.

 

[lark sparrow]

Sorry, just noticed this as that thread subscription thing drove me up a wall the first week. I just have to ask if you are comparing flour and water (or whatever one uses for bread lol I don't cook) with a living animal?

Everyone wants to talk about the "larger issues" TO A POINT, only to the point that animals need to be killed and it's merciful... there's an even larger issue of lack of space for the animal to live.

I'm doing my part for 0 population growth - how about you?

LarkSparrow,

You claim not to understand why somebody who didn't have to would go hunt for meat rather than go to the grocer. Do you have the same lack of understanding for why someone might bake their own bread or cookies rather than buy them? What about people who cook at home at all rather than going out to eat where somebody else does all the work?

I don't personally enjoy a lot of things but it doesn't mean I can't fathom why anyone else might enjoy them.


-B

 

[bridgeburner]

LarkSparrow,

I just have to ask if you are comparing flour and water (or whatever one uses for bread lol I don't cook) with a living animal?

That depends on whether you were disturbed by the added labor of hunting as opposed to shopping or whether what really disturbed you was the idea of somebody personally killing a living animal rather than having someone else do it for him.

I'll go out on a limb here and assume it is the latter. If so I have to ask why it bothers you since you appear to have no problem with people raising captive animals and killing them in order to stock the grocery store.

Why is hunting a wild animal more wrong than raising it in captivity then killing it?



-B

 

[lark sparrow]

Why is hunting a wild animal more wrong than raising it in captivity then killing it?



-B

Simple. The domestic cow and chicken at the store are dead - nothing going to save them now. The wild deer is still alive and therefore has some sort of chance in continuing to live. Oh, and minus the "wrong" part - as I didn't say that. It would feel wrong to me but I haven't said it is wrong for others. It's simply a choice if you are going to eat meat really.

You don't have to like, agree with or even understand my point of view - it won't offend me in the least.

The larger of the larger issue still exists in my mind. I'd personally like to know that there is space on the planet for a few wild animals that don't need to be killed out of merciful sport.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've heard of it, and remember hearing something about something similar occuring out Las Vegas way in the regular news a while back. If I run across the info, i'll pass it on.

That was a hoax..."Paintball hunt for bimbos". (Great idea actually), This Dark Hunt thing sounds like the real freaky deal.

 

[Netzach]

I've heard about some ladies in britain who foxhunt a man, and vice versa, but they seem equally as likely urban myths.

 

[MissTaken]

originally posted by lark sparrow
Simple. The domestic cow and chicken at the store are dead - nothing going to save them now. The wild deer is still alive and therefore has some sort of chance in continuing to live.

what an insightful piece of logic...
Of course the supermarket forager is ever so more righteous than the ignorant hick who actually buys a tag which funds wildlife conservation programs and goes through the trouble of harvesting the meat.....sorry, just my rant for the morning.

 

[scooterbum]

for the record...

what an insightful piece of logic
Of course the supermarket forager is ever so more righteous than the ignorant hick who actually buys a tag which funds wildlife conservation programs and goes through the trouble of harvesting the meat.....sorry, just my rant for the morning.

that was me... just not logged in right

 

[lark sparrow]

what an insightful piece of logic...
Of course the supermarket forager is ever so more righteous than the ignorant hick who actually buys a tag which funds wildlife conservation programs and goes through the trouble of harvesting the meat.....sorry, just my rant for the morning.

lol down boy... defensive alittle?

 

[scooterbum]

defensive???

originally posted by lark sparrow

lol down boy... defensive alittle?

not at all my dear.....

I find your comments and machinations quite amusing.

I really don't have to agree with someone to enjoy the debate. Of course I sometimes have trouble with the proper application of my straw hat and bib overhaluls

 

[lark sparrow]

giggles... my bad, I took your pretentiousness as defensive.

Rant on, but I see no reason to respond as it has little to do with my posts if you read them.

 

[erotic_writer_girl]

hunting, professionals, kids, and more...

Well sure, a more humane death for an animal is more expensive. What price are we as a society willing to pay? If animals need to be killed for ecological reasons, then I think we should let professionals take care of it in a method that is both as cost-effective and humane as possible. As for the needy, I'm not so cruel as to suggest that they be forced on to a vegan diet. But I don't think they should be used as human shields to deflect criticism of a controversial activity, either.

I note here GBB that you say "let professionals take care of it in a method that is both as cost effective and humane as possible".

This is possibly going to make me some enemies here but here goes.

I have hunted. Yes that means I went out looking for poor defenceless critters and I killed them. So to me this is not a 'what if' or a 'maybe if' it is a factual part of my history. I have been involved in shooting animals for several reasons and I shall list them here.

I am the daughter of a kangaroo shooter. Yep he used to go out and shoot to kill hundreds of those cute furry little hoppy things that are an icon of our country. As a part of my 'duties' as a daughter of a roo shooter I had to go out and help reload the guns and also help load the carcasses. The roos were shot for their pelts, so that rich people throughout the world could have their delightful roo skin handbags, belts and wallets. The carasses were sold to pet food manufacturers. Yes it was mercenary, no it was not so we could eat the roos. Honestly their meat is vile and I have no understadning why anyone would pay such high prices for the steaks we have been feeding to our pets for decades.

I was taught to shoot to kill. One bullet, one beast.

It was also a part of my duties as a rural based daughter to shoot cattle and horses which were injured, sick or dying of thirst or starvation. Object all you like about it but guaranteed I used one bullet per animal and the death was swift. Any hunter knows the exact spot to hit to ensure a swift death and if they dont they should remina on a nice comfy shooting range. One bullet, one beast.

To do as you suggest, to kill them more 'humanely' is in fact not possible. There is nothing humane about rounding up cattle/horses etc into a yard, especially if they are sick thirsty or hungry, and then locking them into a cradle, an instrument designed to hold them still while medical or other such procedures are carried out, and injecting them with a death shot. These animals are distressed to the max, and young calves, foals or other young are trampled to death or squashed against the rails in stockyards. I kid you not it is the most humane thing to simply shoot them in their own paddock where they stand. One quick shot and it is over with.

I have shot animals for food. Yes this did involve me having to help skin, gut and slice the animal up. Yes it is a disgusting job to do. No I didnt get any kicks out of it nor did it meet any of my sexual needs. Yes I ate the meat. May I add that for me to do this I did follow the tradition of many tradtional peoples and offered a prayer of thanks to the animal for providing me with food. That is a part of who I am I take nothing for granted.

I did all of these things in my teen years. I did not grow up rural. I grew up in suburbia with my mother and went to the outback to live with my father in my early teens. I was 14 years old the first time I went on a 'kill' for meat. I leaned against a tree vomitting for the entire time the men 'dealt with' the carcass. I swore to be a vegetarian for the rest of my life and in fact did not eat one piece of meat from that kill.

After two weeks of no red meat and working very hard in a physical sense on the property I can say my body craved meat. I was pale sick and very weak. I did not attend the second kill and I did eat the meat from the second kill. I immediately felt better. I learned my lesson that if you are going to work very hard in the outback you do need to listen to your body and eat what it needs.
On the third kill I assisted, stomach doing somersaults, and I did eat the meat.

Would I do any of that now? No! more twenty years after leaving the outback I must say I like going to the butchers and buying my meat off his shelf. I dont need to kill the animals to eat however I do understand the process and know that 'someone' has to kill them. Would I do it if I had to? Yes. I would kill animals to eat if I had to.

Regards

EWG

 

[Guest]

>>>>As a VERY public and active pagan (revilved group!), an active political liberal (reviled group!), an publically active Dominant (revilved group!), and an opnely polyamorous proponent of same (ditto), *I* would certainly be grateful for some attempts at understanding from others, and I think lots of other people would be a lot happier to<<<

I probably know better than to get involved in this argument but, what the hell, I'm bored.

THe above quote from James pretty much goes for me too. WIth the exception that I fall into the odd area where I am so politicly conservative that I'm considered a liberal.

Once upon a time I sat down and had a long couple of conversations with a wildlife biologist working for the state of TN.
THis interesting exchange gifted me with two (well more than two but....) pieces of knowledge.
One, why we, at this point, can't stop hunting.
And two, what happens if we do.

SO!
For ten points.( I swear I'll mail you a really neat certificate.)

Why, in the US can we not stop hunting?

 

[Guest]

Oh, and I have always seen using the availability of commercially processed meat to justify the abolition of hunting as the rankest possible hypocrasy.
But then I have some room there.
I actually know what happens to that cow.
ANd that chicken.
Believe me, what happens to a whitetail (or other game animal), is a fairy tale by comparison.
And yes, I still eat meat purchased at the grocery.
I just try really hard not to have any illusions about it.

*sigh* It behooves each of us to know where their food comes from. I have never lied to my children and told them that the hamburger comes "from the store".

And just for the record we are currently fighting the establishment of a C.A.F.O. locally.
Don't know what a C.A.F.O. is?
Tsk..And shame - they are coming to a rural area near you probably, or are already there. It is commercial farming at it's most inhumane and brutal. With little or no regard for the thought that the animals are living things.
But they are profitable.
Sorry state of affairs eh?

 

[bridgeburner]

EKVITKAR,

I fall into the odd area where I am so politicly conservative that I'm considered a liberal.

I know this isn't really what you meant to emphasize, but I find it intriguing as it falls into one of my pet theories ---- that if you go far enough in either direction politically you meet the opposition on the back end.

I suppose I ought to go make a thread for such a discussion. If I do so will you come and chat?


-B

 

[Guest]

EKVITKAR,



I know this isn't really what you meant to emphasize, but I find it intriguing as it falls into one of my pet theories ---- that if you go far enough in either direction politically you meet the opposition on the back end.

I suppose I ought to go make a thread for such a discussion. If I do so will you come and chat?


-B

Sure - should be fun.

 

[SweetDommes]

...When there are overpopulation problems (I recognize that they occur) the best way to handle it is euthenasia like we would with stray dogs and cats, .... It's true I'm a product of a big city environment, and it shapes my opinions on these issues. ... I would support a law requiring that animals that are killed are done so in the most humane way possible. I would even support a law that banned killing animals for food. We'd probably be a better and healthier society.

Somewhere else someone said "let professionals take care of it" I (Holly) am one of those professionals. I have a bachelor's degree in Wildlife, which or course includes coursework in management and hunting.

Hunters as a whole seem to be misunderstood in areas where they are not common. They are not all the often thought of flannel wearing middle aged white man who kills only for fun, nor the poor man who kills only for meat. They just like BDSM'ers have their own culture, outcasts and misfits, motives and ethics systems. Limbhugger described this beautifully.

Hunters benefit wildlife. Hunters fund nearly all game animal conservation programs and most non-game animal conservation programs in this nation. They also contribute the most money to habitat conservation and restoration which benefits a great many species. The role of hunting as a population management tool is debateble, in most cases hunting adds very little to the natural mortality of a popultion. Nearly all available evidence indicates that hunted populations are healthier then unmanaged populations. Hunting is a profitable management tool. People pay to participate, thus funding further research, conservation, and restoration. Without these funds little to no conservation would occur in this nation.

Euthanasia as a solution to overpopulation has been considered a failure in most experimental populations. It is difficult to capture wild animals alive. It is extremely stressful to them, and as many as 30% of them die due to the stress of capture and transport. This cuases more stress, injury and harm then hunting, so most would consider it less humane then hunting. To make euthansia humane, basically each individual animal would have to be stalked or baited and shot with a dart containing a pre-estimated amount of euthansia solution. This would have to be completed during a season when there not mothers with young. Basically it would be hunting with no positive benefits. The meat would be inedible by anything and have to be landfilled. Wildlife professionals would have to spend months in the feild euthanizing rather then enforcing game law, educating the public, or leading other conservation projects. The worst part is, that this would have to re-occur until the sitautions which led to the overpopulation were corrected.

Further, a law banning the killing of animals for food would be ludicris. there are certain sects of our species who cannot be healthy without meat or meat products, these are young children, pubescent girls, pregnant women, lactating women, the very aged and those with a multitude of illnesses.

City living is no excuse for being uneducated. Just as some people oppose hunting or the eating of meat because they are uneducated, so do people oppose the BDSM lifestyle


*Please excuse any typos or misspellings, I have a badly injured thumb so I'm typing one handed*

 

[Saint_Sinner]

FUCKED UP THOUGHT ALERT!!!

I didn't even attempt to read all of this thread, so maybe I am saying something that has already been said, but I just had a thought.

Gunplay, never even entered my thoughts before this, and I definately don't thing it qualifys as sane, but the possibilities are thought provoking.

I think I feel a story coming on.

Seriously, even with only a three inch grouping at a hundred yards, a foot away would still make someone piss themselves.

just a little f'ed up thought

 

[WriterDom]

Kill a hog in Texas and get 7 dollars for the ears

U.S. Experiences Population Boom -- of Feral Hogs

By Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY

Booming numbers of wild hogs are colliding with motorists, devouring crops, spreading disease and terrifying landowners from tony towns on the Pacific Coast to the swamps of the Carolinas.

Feral pigs wield four-inch razor-sharp tusks and breed so prolifically that their populations are escalating dramatically in some places.

"We know that Texas has more feral hogs than any other state," says Billy Higginbotham, a professor at Texas A&M University. "With 1.5 million in the state, we will never eradicate them. The best we can hope for is to keep their numbers under control."


"I fear allowing my grandchildren to go beyond the yard as they might be attacked by wild hogs."
-Texas property owner

So-called feral hogs are descendants of swine that fled farms or boars that were released by hunters for sport. They are thriving in the wild, in some cases reaching 400 pounds or more.

What all feral pigs share in common is an unbridled appetite for everything from lady-slippers to acorns to zucchini. They've been known to tear up hundreds of acres of soil in a few nights looking for what is beneath, ruining crop land. If they don't find enough food in the wild, they'll plow through trash cans and yards.

And they reproduce like rabbits, breeding litters of a dozen or more piglets twice a year.

"I've seen as many as 19 babies," says Trent Horne, a 35-year-old hunting guide from South Carolina. "They follow the sow around like ducklings follow a mama duck. Alligators get the little ones down here. Snakes get some, too. But wild pigs are smart, and mama pig is a pretty good protector."

Their booming numbers have caused headaches across the USA:

-- In the scenic coastal city of Carmel, Calif., state transportation officials put up "Pig Crossing" signs recently on Highway 1. The warnings went up after a motorcyclist received serious head injuries after he slammed into a bunch of pigs darting across a road last year.

"These are not your Babe-type pigs," says Colin Jones, a California Department of Transportation spokesman. "They're wild pigs, right next to an internationally known highway. You wouldn't expect to see them here."

-- A wild pig gored a teenager in Louisiana, igniting fears of rabies after the animal tested positive for the disease. Later tests showed the animal did not have rabies.

-- Feral hogs carry diseases including brucellosis, pseudorabies and tuberculosis. Some cause reproductive problems in domestic pigs, Missouri wildlife officials say. Hunters also have been chased up trees by aggressive pigs in the Show-Me State.

Higginbotham says the feral pig population in Texas has exploded in the last decade. He surveyed landowners in the eastern part of the state and found increasing numbers had reported seeing the hogs on their land in recent years.

One Texas property owner told Higginbotham in a survey, "I fear allowing my grandchildren to go beyond the yard as they might be attacked by wild hogs."

Several states have responded by declaring open season on wild pigs year-round with no limit on the number that can be bagged.



Tennessee, for example, allows hunters to kill as many wild pigs of either sex as they wish on private land, with the owner's permission.

The Missouri Department of Conservation pleads with hunters on its Web site: "If you encounter a feral hog while hunting deer or other game, shoot it on sight."

Van Zandt County, Texas, has put a bounty on the heads of wild hogs. The county pays $7 for each matched pair of ears from feral hogs. In one month, the county wrote checks for 568 pairs.

Hawaii has one of the USA's longest-running and most serious problems with feral pigs. Polynesian islanders brought the first pigs to the islands several centuries ago. Capt. James Cook, the first European visitor, brought in reinforcements hundreds of years later.

Feral pigs in Hawaii inhabit dense cover, making it hard to determine how many live on the islands, says Stephen Miller, a conservation official with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Hawaii. They rip down and eat Hawaii's hapuu ferns, which soar more than 20 feet, leaving behind a barren forest floor that erodes to mud during rainfall and allowing weeds to spread unchecked.

Yet there is an upside to the pig problem: their taste.

"What struck me is that it wasn't sinewy," Miller says. "It was quite good, quite tender."




05/13/2004 07:12