BDSM- lifestyle or not

[xxCrystal4314xx]

Makes it much clearer for me

I know the poll was a bit messy, I'm not great at putting down what I mean in to words

 

[catalina_francisco]

Cat, I suspect you might be referring to me, since I am almost the only non-24/7 person who's responded so far. If not, then I AM getting defensive here. *chuckle* I really am quite happy with who I am, just in case you couldn't tell. My question to Geoff was not due to my questioning my authenticity or getting defensive about my choice, but an honest request for clarification. However, in retrospect, it was probably also a response to the wording of the poll, which states "For play only, it stays in a sexual context." As I see it, it is much more than play for me - as important in some ways to my sense of being as is my sexual orientation. Hmmmm, that does sound suspiciously similar to EG's comment... OOPS, EG! I think that we are again in agreement! And Cat, point taken.

No, just what comes up in most threads around this topic....there are a huge list of them which nearly always end up with accusations that 24/7 is a myth and fallacy, and many of those who don't believe in it or choose to live it feeling a need to defend why they do what they do and how it is OK. When 24/7 people do the same, it often gets greeted with sarcasm and a need to keep posing questions (usually totally off the planet situations) to prove that people who profess to have a 24/7 lifestyle are inded lying. It just gets old after awhile and I am tired of the periodic revisit to the topic which has a higher ratio of coming from someone who doesn't believe it possible than someone who does...and through it all, it proves little because if we say in theory we would kill (or do any number of the outrageous scenarios posed to us) for our partner we are damned and if we say we wouldn't, the same outcome applies. There seem to be a o lot of people who want to discuss it, but refuse to change their mind or even open it to the possibility that 24/7 is a reality and is not something to apologise for. I don't include you in that group Neomn as you seem to be very open to most things and willing to at least appreciate the right for each of us to choose what works best for us without having to justify it.

Catalina

 

[xxCrystal4314xx]

I hope you didn't think I started this thread to say I thought 24/7 was impossible, I just wasn't sure how it worked. I'm very much a newbie with a lot of this I'm afraid.

 

[CutieMouse]

I hope you didn't think I started this thread to say I thought 24/7 was impossible, I just wasn't sure how it worked. I'm very much a newbie with a lot of this I'm afraid.

Honestly I think it works like any other relationship works. You could line up 15 couples who are married, ask them to explain marriage, and get 15 different answers... very few (if any) of which will be textbook examples of "marriage" as defined by society. Same thing with BDSM relationships.

 

[xxCrystal4314xx]

Honestly I think it works like any other relationship works. You could line up 15 couples who are married, ask them to explain marriage, and get 15 different answers... very few (if any) of which will be textbook examples of "marriage" as defined by society. Same thing with BDSM relationships.

Yeah, hadn't thought of it like that

 

[skittles_lm]

I think EG is right. just because I am not constantly on my knees waiting for her to get home doesn't mean we are not 24/7. I defer to her in all things, she makes the major decisions, I am hers. I still take care of the kids, go to work, have my own friends... but it all falls under her domain.

I suppose it can just be bedroom play, but personally I don't get it. I don't think i could do that. Sounds like a relationship where one person is in love and the other isn't. Lots of hurt feelings and bitterness eventually.

Please, correct me if I am wrong. I want to know.

 

[xxCrystal4314xx]

To us, we just keep it in the bedroom. Its something we do within a variety of sexual settings, sometimes we do d/s, a lot of the time we don't. It's not something that I feel is a permanant definition of our relationship at all, we make all the decisions together with neither of us being more in control.

*waiting to have made a prat of herself with poor explanations*

 

[Linyari]

I suppose it can just be bedroom play, but personally I don't get it. I don't think i could do that. Sounds like a relationship where one person is in love and the other isn't. Lots of hurt feelings and bitterness eventually.

Not so much. Just like everything else, it's all about communication. In the bedroom, he knows that he is more than welcome to tell me what to do, to order me about and degrade me in whatever manner he pleases. I welcome and love it.

Outside of the bedroom, I don't want to be treated in such a manner. Or rather, outside of sex I don't want to be treated like that. It tends to bring up issues stemming from how I was brought up and being treated like a failure or a second class citizen. Not because that's really the way it is (it is NOT, let me make that emphatically clear) but because I have baggage. Big, BIG baggage and whether it is intended in that manner or not, it triggers all those same feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness.

For those that sub 24/7 love it and while they are serving are also being served in a different sense. They are being cared for. All of the things that a Dom/Domme may do to them and for them make the sub feel loved, make them feel wanted and makes them feel needed and/or valuable. I've heard so many subs stating that they can handle all manner of punishment and giving up control, but the most distressing thing of all is their Dom/Domme's indifference.

The difference for many people who keep BDSM as a sexual sense is that being submissive 24/7 doesn't make them feel loved. If my SO were to turn around and tell me what to do in every other walk of my life and to expect me to relinquish control in a majority of our regular life, I wouldn't feel needed nor would I feel valued. I would feel worthless.

Once again, not because that's the point of D/s 24/7. That's not it at all, but with my personal issues, that's the way it would make me feel.


Which is why BDSM in the sexual sense works for us, without hurt feelings and without bitterness.

 

[Calyph]

To us, we just keep it in the bedroom. Its something we do within a variety of sexual settings, sometimes we do d/s, a lot of the time we don't. It's not something that I feel is a permanant definition of our relationship at all, we make all the decisions together with neither of us being more in control.

*waiting to have made a prat of herself with poor explanations*

I'd be interested in taking it out of the bedroom as well. I'm not entirely sure how, yet, but its something to think about.

 

[the_pet]

i checked "we incorporate it in everything we do"....... and i had better not forget get it (tee hee hee)


Our lifestyle is probably noticable/detectable to a fellow BDSM'er, but to the untrained eye, our subtle body language like eye contact, where he puts his hand in a given situation to send a certain nonverbal message, how we walk depending on how he wants to be recognized (be his peers, clients) etc. goes unnoticed in public.


pet

 

[neonflux]

Then BDSM is part of who and what you are. It is your lifestyle because it is your life.

BDSM as a lifestyle isn't play. It isn't clothes. It isn't scenes. Just because you aren't dressed in fetishwear or playing 24/7 doesn't mean you aren't living the lifestyle.

If you are NOT living BDSM as a lifestyle means that for you it is a game, it's for grins and giggles, it's something you pick up and put down as the mood strikes, something you can walk away from and not look back.

Does that make it clearer?

Yes, thank you and I think again, as always, I find myself agreeing with you.

It is interesting, my personal response to the term lifestyle - I remember the days when the term was used politely to refer to lesbian/gay folk (bi and trans hadn't yet become part of the equation). In college sexuality classes, we were included within the category of "alternative lifestyles." I always bristled at the term a little when used within this context because my sexual/affectional orientation I see as a part of me, rather than as a "lifestyle." I think that I still have holdover feelings towards the use of it regardless of the context. Neon

 

[JMohegan]

It is interesting, my personal response to the term lifestyle - I remember the days when the term was used politely to refer to lesbian/gay folk (bi and trans hadn't yet become part of the equation). In college sexuality classes, we were included within the category of "alternative lifestyles." I always bristled at the term a little when used within this context because my sexual/affectional orientation I see as a part of me, rather than as a "lifestyle." I think that I still have holdover feelings towards the use of it regardless of the context.

It's a problematic term, no doubt! Used to mean very different things by different people.

I like Geoff's definition of BDSM lifestyle as part sexual orientation, part attitude and value system.

However, I have spoken to quite a few BDSMers who use lifestyle as a synonym for culture, emphasizing the importance of language (Sir, Ma'am, Master, etc.), clothes & accessories (e.g., a collar), and behavior (shared customs, traditions, and protocol) in determining whether someone would properly be considered to belong to the BDSM lifestyle or not.

So if someone asks me if I am a BDSM lifestyler or not, I need to know how they define the term before I respond. Using Geoff's definition, my answer would be yes. Using the cultural definition, my answer would be no.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm a fairly literate guy (two masters degrees, one in linguistics) and I honestly don't really know what the word "lifestyle" is all about. To me it seems to have been coined because someone felt a need to describe a group of things that didn't really have much in common and he or she just didn't have the mental horsepower to come up with a more accurate word. It's also demeaning, insulting, and more than a little vague.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't know...I have never had a problem understanding what lifestyle meant as a word, nor do I see it as a new word as it has been around longer than the contemporary BDSM community, but thought perhaps I had missed something so went to 3 different and popular dictionaries and found no surprises. I guess in an age when so many want to rewrite the meaning of words it can then become complicated, but I tend to be boring and rely on the more official or universal understandings more often than not. The 3 different dictionaries I went to explained 'lifestyle' as such;

# the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture (merriam-webster)

# the particular way of life of a person or group (oxford)

# a person's or group's characteristic manner of living; one's style of life. (world book)

Catalina

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Then BDSM is part of who and what you are. It is your lifestyle because it is your life.

BDSM as a lifestyle isn't play. It isn't clothes. It isn't scenes. Just because you aren't dressed in fetishwear or playing 24/7 doesn't mean you aren't living the lifestyle.

If you are NOT living BDSM as a lifestyle means that for you it is a game, it's for grins and giggles, it's something you pick up and put down as the mood strikes, something you can walk away from and not look back.

Does that make it clearer?

No, it doesn't actually.

I think that bsdm or its tenants is alot like religion..you practice at a level you are comfortable with. To say otherwise, imho, is a disservice to someone who is trying to wade their way thru all the mumbo jumbo.

I know I don't practice the "lifestyle" as fully as involved as you do, Geoff but at the same time I don't consider myself a "weekend warrior" either. I do things at a level both me and my pyl are comfortable with. If I/we chose to stagnate ourselves, who is to say we are wrong to do so?

Your comment reminds me of an incident that happened to me while in the Army.. a private of mine got to feeling cocky one day and while helping with a training exercise told some National Guardsmen that they weren't real soldiers. The private was quickly told that the uniform says US Army.. not National Guard or Army Reserve and that while the so called "weekend warriors" may not train for it everyday, they still had to adhere to the same standards of training and that those same soldiers could bleed and die just the same as he could.

The OP and Neon aren't some 18yr chic who had her first round of rough sex, liked it and figured she was into bsdm and posts up a personal looking for a Daddy Dom. They are both adults in attitude and have made the considered opinion that bsdm is what they need to meet their needs as a sexually active individual. Whether or not they "do it" once a day or once a week makes no difference - they are practitioners of bsdm. It is a part of who they are - period.

Now before somebody gets the wrong idea from this post, I will admit that you, Geoff, are probably one of the more practiced members of the Lit bsdm community and one of the more sagely of its disciples as well. However, on this topic I must disagree with you.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The OP and Neon aren't some 18yr chic who had her first round of rough sex, liked it and figured she was into bsdm and posts up a personal looking for a Daddy Dom. They are both adults in attitude and have made the considered opinion that bsdm is what they need to meet their needs as a sexually active individual. Whether or not they "do it" once a day or once a week makes no difference - they are practitioners of bsdm. It is a part of who they are - period.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you in that the discussion is about whether it is a lifestyle or not to individual posters. Referring back to the dictionary meaning of 'lifestyle', while I think people who participate in BDSM at various times, even regular intervals, but do not incorporate it into all aspects of their lives are to be considered practitioners, I think to be considered a lifestyler it has to be as the dictionary says, characteristic of, typical, or the normal way of living for a person or group, a way of life. It doesn't make it better or worse, but I think there is a difference. To me it can be part of a person's lifestyle, without it actually being their total lifestyle. For us it is our lifestyle in that it guides everything we do, how decisions are made, how the household is run, how we relate to each other.

Catalina

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't know...I have never had a problem understanding what lifestyle meant as a word, nor do I see it as a new word as it has been around longer than the contemporary BDSM community, but thought perhaps I had missed something so went to 3 different and popular dictionaries and found no surprises. I guess in an age when so many want to rewrite the meaning of words it can then become complicated, but I tend to be boring and rely on the more official or universal understandings more often than not. The 3 different dictionaries I went to explained 'lifestyle' as such;

# the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture (merriam-webster)

# the particular way of life of a person or group (oxford)

# a person's or group's characteristic manner of living; one's style of life. (world book)

Catalina

Cat, my problem with the word is not that lexicographers haven't been able to describe it, but rather with the way in which it has acquired so many connotations as to be almost useless. As Neon pointed out earlier, "lifestyle" was once used to distinguish between gays and lesbians ("he lives the gay lifestyle"). In this usage, it is demeaning (as if one's gayness was a choice of no more profundity than deciding to living in a suburb versus living in the heart of a metropolitan city). In fact, I still see this usage fairly often.

To be really useful, a word should allow us to make sharp and precise distinctions. "Lifestyle" seems to mean almost anything that someone wants it to mean, including usages where it connotes living in a manner that the speaker deems superior(or inferior) to others who follow similar practices. This very thread hangs on that weakness in the word. The OP used the phrase "a fully BDSM lifestyle" and this is one of the more articulate uses that I've seen in such discussions. Often, it seems that folks make the judgment that others are or are not "in the lifestyle" based on the degree to which bdsm practices and protocol inform their everyday lives. Clearly, "lifestyle" when applied to people who follow bdsm practices in their lives, is a sliding-scale kind of word that just doesn't make for distinctions. In that sense, it's just not a very useful word in my view.

Because the word is so slippery, I'm not sure that I know what it really means - or if it really means anything very useful in a productive dialogue.

 

[CutieMouse]

*slips into the thread to geek out on Midwest's discussion of words...*

 

[catalina_francisco]

To be really useful, a word should allow us to make sharp and precise distinctions. "Lifestyle" seems to mean almost anything that someone wants it to mean, including usages where it connotes living in a manner that the speaker deems superior(or inferior) to others who follow similar practices. ...

Because the word is so slippery, I'm not sure that I know what it really means - or if it really means anything very useful in a productive dialogue.

I hear what you are saying, but truth is, if you traverse this and a few other BDSM related forums, you will find many words which people have decided to change the previously understood meaning of to suit what they want it to. I don't know whether it is because they want to identify in a particular way but do not want to fulfil what is usually or previously recognised as characteristics of that word and so decide to just broaden the meaning and before you know it so are others and soon it is as is so often quoted here, 'it is whatever it means to you'...that makes communication between unfamiliar individuals very difficult without a lot of misunderstandings, hurt feelings, anger, need for clarification etc. I

t comes with the political correctness climate we live in, and the belief it is wrong to have a strong opinion, or make a judgement, ar say anything which might be seen as bad thus many try to be 'nice' to everyone, be everyone's friend, make everyone happy, and discussions suffer for it as they lose depth and meaning, not to mention open and honest sharing of information and experience. No-one can be liked by everyone, no-one can be all things to all people, no-one can fill all the roles in BDSM, so why not be honest and respect the same right in another who might not agree with you, live like you, think like you and discuss those differences...it seems it will continue to be an issue in discussions unfortunately because IMHO as adults it should be obvious we are all different and have a right to be so without feeling the need to put disclaimers on everything we say and try to word it in a way which will only say things that most will find acceptable. Without that freedom we learn very little from each other.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Cat, my problem with the word is not that lexicographers haven't been able to describe it, but rather with the way in which it has acquired so many connotations as to be almost useless. As Neon pointed out earlier, "lifestyle" was once used to distinguish between gays and lesbians ("he lives the gay lifestyle"). In this usage, it is demeaning (as if one's gayness was a choice of no more profundity than deciding to living in a suburb versus living in the heart of a metropolitan city). In fact, I still see this usage fairly often.

To be really useful, a word should allow us to make sharp and precise distinctions. "Lifestyle" seems to mean almost anything that someone wants it to mean, including usages where it connotes living in a manner that the speaker deems superior(or inferior) to others who follow similar practices. This very thread hangs on that weakness in the word. The OP used the phrase "a fully BDSM lifestyle" and this is one of the more articulate uses that I've seen in such discussions. Often, it seems that folks make the judgment that others are or are not "in the lifestyle" based on the degree to which bdsm practices and protocol inform their everyday lives. Clearly, "lifestyle" when applied to people who follow bdsm practices in their lives, is a sliding-scale kind of word that just doesn't make for distinctions. In that sense, it's just not a very useful word in my view.

Because the word is so slippery, I'm not sure that I know what it really means - or if it really means anything very useful in a productive dialogue.

Yes. Yes yes. I don't know what the F a "style" is when it comes to my life. I didn't hire a stylist. I don't have alternate lives in my closet.

I chose a partner whose power polarity meshes with mine. I don't reinforce that a million times a day. I would never choose a partner who didn't want to do BDSM or D/s stuff, but I don't hammer on the dynamic every day - it just is.

 

[Softouch911]

EG's wording is pretty much perfect in describing my lifestyle, and while I understand the linguistic objection to use of the word, I have none better so will get along with it for now.

If I'm asked by a stranger who and what I am -- and most people don't care, so it happens very rarely -- I would say that I'm a writer and head of house in a BDSM relationship.

... Unless they'd be offended and I feel it would violate their nonconsent, in which case I'd euphemize it.

... Or if they'd try to have me arrested, in which case I'd just plain lie.

The sex part takes place in the bedroom, or dungeon, or private play party ... the rest of it takes place in living through the day. She gave her consent; we find it fulfilling.

Respectfully,
ST

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I know I don't practice the "lifestyle" as fully as involved as you do, Geoff but at the same time I don't consider myself a "weekend warrior" either. I do things at a level both me and my pyl are comfortable with. If I/we chose to stagnate ourselves, who is to say we are wrong to do so?

The OP and Neon aren't some 18yr chic who had her first round of rough sex, liked it and figured she was into bsdm and posts up a personal looking for a Daddy Dom. They are both adults in attitude and have made the considered opinion that bsdm is what they need to meet their needs as a sexually active individual. Whether or not they "do it" once a day or once a week makes no difference - they are practitioners of bsdm. It is a part of who they are - period.

Now before somebody gets the wrong idea from this post, I will admit that you, Geoff, are probably one of the more practiced members of the Lit bsdm community and one of the more sagely of its disciples as well. However, on this topic I must disagree with you.

Hi Chris, the question as posed was:

BDSM- lifestyle or not
I hear people say about living a fully BDSM lifestyle, but I'm not sure how that would work? Would that mean being permanately Dom or Sub throughout every day? even with housework etc?

How do you have bdsm in your life?

Being a "practitioner" of BDSM doesn't make someone a "BDSM lifestyler". Any more than being a "General Practioner" or "Ob-Gyn" makes a doctor a "Cardiologist". A person being one doesn't make the needs, desires and experiences of someone doing the other any less valid, important or valuable. I answered the question without making any value judgements about those who are not living BDSM as a lifestyle.

Please go back and re-read what I wrote. I gave my working definition of what a BDSM lifestyler is. And answered the OP's question about how I practiced BDSM in MY life and why I consider it my "lifestyle". Neon asked for a clarification and I gave it. It's okay to disagree with my working definition of "lifestyler". But please share with us your understanding of the term. What qualifies someone as a "lifestyler" in your book?

 

[Ebonyfire]

One of the things I like about giving and receiving the opinions of others, is that whether they disagree with you or not, they are unable to change your reality.

I personally like EG's explanation. It closely describes my own situations, opinions, and experiences.

The definition of your own reality only needs to be understood by you and your partner.

To each his or her own.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I guess one reason why I do not have a problem understanding the meaning behind the word 'lifestyle' is because I grew up with it in my face everyday. Being an Aussie and living there for 44 1/2 years, it was a common thing to hear the 'Australian lifestyle' mentioned in all walks of life and all forms of communication. No-one jumped up and down and said, 'well, what is that then?'....we knew what it meant. Same as it is said some people lead a jetset lifestyle...it is understood that does not mean the person has been on a couple of trips on a plane in their lifetime.

Why is it when it is applied to BDSM people and the way they live, they get upset and start trying to invalidate the use of the word to mean exactly what EG, Ebonyfire, myself understand it to mean and get all defensive and/or aggressive about it not working, not being clear, not real, unnecessary, useless as a word, being judgemental etc. It ain't judgemental unless you feel it makes you seem less of a person or BDSMer, and that folks I'm sorry to say has nothing to do with the word or those who use it to describe their lives, but with your own feelings of insecurity, inferiority or whatever that comes from within, not from the minds of those who use the word to mean a way of life that is valid and real.

Catalina

 

[Bandit58]

This is how it works for us Any time He needs me for anything, I'm there. That's it, period.

He is always Dom, I'm always sub. It's there, all the time. Sure we have fun, kiss and cuddle and joke around and stuff, that's what being in a relationship is all about.

Our D/s relationship started out as bedroom kink. But being naturally submissive, it has gradually evolved to outside that. Being His carer has given me the opportunity to take my submissiveness and make it something useful and joyful instead of a curse, as when I was married to my first domineering (not dominant) husband.