Xelebes
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Before You Vote For Obama....
- Thread starter Queersetti
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XXplorher
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Etoile
You seem to think I "made it clear" but you're only using your interpretation of something I said back in December. You think you know how I feel now based on some things I said then.
Yeah, and that pissed me off.
I’m sorry I got drunk and just made it an argument, rather than a conversation. You were right to point that out. Good call. But I’m not quite sure how I am wrong to use your very thoughts against you, for the sake of debate. If you no longer stand by what you said then? Then say so now.
I cherish my country. It’s built on the very things I hold dear. I am very upset that we’re going the wrong way now. Yet I in no way consider that inevitable. I know that the PAST says it happens, and that only ramps up my concern. The country will fail if the people allow this corruption to occur. Therefore, your fatalist view demanded I slap you. You are not allowed to have that fatalist view of my country. And if you disrespect it to the degree that you think you can (and are not willing to do everything possible to benefit it) then you need to leave my fucking country for greener pastures. We do not have room for a cancerous persuasion… when the country is falling apart.
So I went at you pretty hard.
I’m also advantaging any chance I get (lately) to push Obama. I happen to think this dude is going to save our country – or it’s all over. If he doesn’t get elected? I think we’re fucked forever. That’s the way I see it. We pass on this opportunity? Then we don’t deserve to remain. Screw us. We’re stupid. So I wasn’t just talking to you. I was begging for votes. (Does anyone post remarks on a Bulletin Board without considering the many eyes? If I want to say something just for you? I’ll send it to you directly. I’m pushing my agenda here. As we all are.)
I’ve a tendency lately to be a drunken asshole and thereby destroy my credibility. That’s rather stupid of me. But I ALWAYS account for my previous mistakes. If you don’t mean ‘what you said back then’, then you should say so now. We need you to support the country. And get excited about the change you apparently support. Stop being drab about it. That upsets me greatly.
PS “Repomen” is a fun word to say when you’re drunk, put in existence by a movie of the same name. The Sheen kid who’s too pompous to have that last name was in it. At one point, he basically uses the term as one of disgust (even though he’s a repoman himself). It means you repossess cars for a living. But that’s not what it means when I say it. When I say it, it means I have no respect for you… and maybe I’m being a hypocrite. That’s what it means when I’m saying it.
You seem to think I "made it clear" but you're only using your interpretation of something I said back in December. You think you know how I feel now based on some things I said then.
Yeah, and that pissed me off.
I’m sorry I got drunk and just made it an argument, rather than a conversation. You were right to point that out. Good call. But I’m not quite sure how I am wrong to use your very thoughts against you, for the sake of debate. If you no longer stand by what you said then? Then say so now.
I cherish my country. It’s built on the very things I hold dear. I am very upset that we’re going the wrong way now. Yet I in no way consider that inevitable. I know that the PAST says it happens, and that only ramps up my concern. The country will fail if the people allow this corruption to occur. Therefore, your fatalist view demanded I slap you. You are not allowed to have that fatalist view of my country. And if you disrespect it to the degree that you think you can (and are not willing to do everything possible to benefit it) then you need to leave my fucking country for greener pastures. We do not have room for a cancerous persuasion… when the country is falling apart.
So I went at you pretty hard.
I’m also advantaging any chance I get (lately) to push Obama. I happen to think this dude is going to save our country – or it’s all over. If he doesn’t get elected? I think we’re fucked forever. That’s the way I see it. We pass on this opportunity? Then we don’t deserve to remain. Screw us. We’re stupid. So I wasn’t just talking to you. I was begging for votes. (Does anyone post remarks on a Bulletin Board without considering the many eyes? If I want to say something just for you? I’ll send it to you directly. I’m pushing my agenda here. As we all are.)
I’ve a tendency lately to be a drunken asshole and thereby destroy my credibility. That’s rather stupid of me. But I ALWAYS account for my previous mistakes. If you don’t mean ‘what you said back then’, then you should say so now. We need you to support the country. And get excited about the change you apparently support. Stop being drab about it. That upsets me greatly.
PS “Repomen” is a fun word to say when you’re drunk, put in existence by a movie of the same name. The Sheen kid who’s too pompous to have that last name was in it. At one point, he basically uses the term as one of disgust (even though he’s a repoman himself). It means you repossess cars for a living. But that’s not what it means when I say it. When I say it, it means I have no respect for you… and maybe I’m being a hypocrite. That’s what it means when I’m saying it.
The_Trouvere
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Would John McCain allow "an anti gay bigot" to appear on the stage with him at his rallies"?
Stop expecting perfection from candidates. I will vote for Obama if I have to walk ten miles through a freezing rain with the flu.
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Queersetti
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Obama is clearly preferable to McCain on all issues relating to the GLBT community.
Perhaps you missed that the OP was made early in the Democratic primary campaign, when there were still several candidates that were, in my opinion, better on GLBT issues than Obama.
Etoile
Mod, 2003-2015
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Agreed. This is a very, very old thread.
alaskabibear
Really Really Experienced
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After watching the debacle of both Dem and Rep conventions I have lost interest that either party will bring any real change to Washington. (for those who didn't see it, I'm referring to the overt corporate and lobbyist financing of the conventions and the unashamed way the members of both political parties participated in the largess.)
I think Obama is more talk than action (did you hear his speech? Sounds like he's going to single handed solve all our problems - not sure how he's going to pay for it all - but dayum, sounds like a chicken in every pot again to me!)
And McCain just scares the crap out of me! I hope it's just me, but every time I hear all of the patriotic hype and chants of; USA! USA! USA! (while the "law" captures an evil protester holding up a sign not in agreement with the leadership), well I just seem to flash back to all those old films about Hilter and the patriotic Germans he enthralled. And Palin! well she is quoted as saying something to the effect that the Iraq war is America's mission from God. (oh and by the way, it was in the local news up here today - Palin's church is having a special speaker this week - something about how if you go to the meeting you can be healed of "unwanted homosexual desires and temptations". Oh boy sign me up! (but for all you women who only vote for gender - well she is a woman so I guess that's good enough! - I mean, surly old John aint a going to kick the bucket and leave her in control of the nukes is he?)
Good Lord! Am I the only one who sees this patriotic hypnosis for what it is? And as for all those predominantly white well to do Republicans who just seem to have an orgasm every time we hear about the brave John McCain who fought in Viet Nam - well, I see him as a pampered military kid who was dumb enough to get shot down while participating in another illegitimate war. I consider the true patriots of this country to be the multitude of citizens who protested and forced our government to abandon that war (and yes some died for their efforts). John McCain was simply "following orders" as he dropped the canisters of napalm on men, women and children trying to live their lives in their own country. And remind me again, why did we fight that war? Oh, I remember! It was to bring "democracy" to the poor backwards Asians and set them free! Sound familiar? When will we all wake up and realize that to most of the world we are the problem - not the solution.
I guess I better try to calm down before I loose all my friends here - but, I think most are missing the real dangers to this country we all love.
IrezumiKiss
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He didn't miss it. He just decided not to see it through his resurrection search on any old thread negative towards Obama.
On a much happier note...Etoile, nice to see your face again!
webshooter69
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John Doe
Justified Snob
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*gasp!* People can change their opinions over time?!
Speaking of join dates, it still freaks me out a little when it says people registered in December of 1969.
Etoile
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Kind of strange that the date computers use as "before recorded history" is before the Internet was actually around, isn't it?
PhoebeGB
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Actually Etoile it just means that the coder of the software the forum uses was lazy or just not very good at their job.
Etoile
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Actually Etoile it just means that the coder of the software the forum uses was lazy or just not very good at their job.
That's why I said the date computers use - when no date is present, or a bug is in the date display code, they assume it is the epoch date (all zeros) and then it's adjusted for the time zone (since epoch date is GMT) and gets put back.
The_Trouvere
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nolaboy
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I agree. Look, nobody hates the process more than I do but lets think big picture here folks. Obama has to do a lot of posturing just to get elected. It's not as though he subscribes to this idiot's ideology.
have faith. We're closer than ever to equality
have faith. We're closer than ever to equality
Why should we believe he doesn't subscribe to this idiots ideology? Or to Wright's: "Goddamn America?" He's a politician isn't he?
Etoile
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Two articles, both from The Advocate:
http://www.advocate.com/issue_story_ektid62098.asp?page=1
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid56331.asp
http://www.advocate.com/issue_story_ektid62098.asp?page=1
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid56331.asp
Wolfman1982
people are hard to please
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it is horrible, USA is the biggest so-called democracy in the world (okay in the Western hemisphere , since India is bigger as a "democracy"). But USA should grab themselves by the balls. And realise that gay marriage is no more different than a woman and a man getting married, to quote Tying The Knot, the only real difference between GLBT marriage and a heterosexual marriage is the sex. But then again, love is love. And I am so tired of seeing people getting kicked to the curve, just because they have another sexuality than the "normal". But I am so sick and tired of the normality, because I am being treated as a second rate human being, because of my mental baggage . Which fucking sucks. So back to the mainpoint , I would rather vote for Obama than MCCain. And it is because the asshole Obama is a democrat.
But to make it even more clear, the world should grab themselves by the balls. And realise what the bloody hell is going on.
But between those two evils, then Obama is still the lesser evil. And I am a democrat in American eyes, but I am not really a democrat. I am a true social democrat. But I do not vote for the party known as The Social Democratic Party, since they are more like a soft right orientated party now a days. But I still vote social, there are other parties that remains more true to the social democratic philosophy.
open this
In windows media player. And you can see the first duel between MCCain and Obama.
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Netzach
>semiotics?
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The Veep debate paints it black and white. GLBT people are still under the bus, still politically dispensable, still an albatross, Dem or 'Pub. It's very hard not to say "fuck you in the ear" to the Dems after that moment. I have sudden compassion for the Log Cabins I could never understand. Sadly, till we have a viable candidate who says "I believe in marriage for all" I can only do the best I can.
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alaskabibear
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It's all about the numbers - the polls - the undecided - the money. There is no place for altruism in politics. It's still just a guess between the lesser of evils...
none2_none2
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Is it really a lesser of two evils, or one of incompetence. I really don't like this election years choices at all.
As to VP's, I must say that Palin makes me ALMOST wish I were a lesbian. (I said almost.) There I got that off my chest, so now I can go back to just being a gay guy....
I lost a lot of respect for Biden during the debate. All this talk about "in an Obama/Biden administration gays ....", and then to say "but I don't believe. Who gives a fuck. Why couldn't he simply say something like: "My opinions do not matter on this topic and I will not discuss it. The country isn't ready for gay marriage, so it won't be persued." I could deal with that, but bringing up the same lingo as Palin that we cannot redefine marriage was just disgusting.
As to Obama, he actually has similar foreign policy attitudes about our wars as I have had -- which surprised me. We had every right to go into Afghanistan as we were after Ben Laden for 911. Instead of focusing there and getting the job done, we STARTED another war front. Ever since then, we have been trying to REDEFINE why we were in Iraq. We do need to get out of Iraq, but I don't agree with a given time table. We destroyed the country, we have a moral obligation to put it back together as best we can before we get out. Otherwise the country will implode. If we had to get in there because Sadam was a horrible dictator, then I would think we should be getting into North Korea sometime.
On the other hand, a lot of his domestic plans I don't see where he can really afford them. Likewise, lots of his supporters scare me more than anything. I do have a sense that a good size of his supporters seeing him as some kind of savior as the right wing has claimed. What will they do when they finally realize he is just a human being running for the presidency. I have nothing against change, but I don't want change for change sake. I want change where it makes sense. He is a very good orator. Still many of his followers and who pulls his strings have me seriously worried about him as president.
McCain, I just cannot figure whether I like him or not. His personal life leaves a lot to be desired. Yes he fought for his country. On the other hand, he dumped his wife who faithfully waited for him during his internment in North Vietnam. She had been a very beautiful woman, and unfortunately, she was crippled in an auto accident. In fact, it got so much attention, that her family asked the famous Ross Perot to pay for her surgeries. McCain wasn't to happy with the cripple he had,so he eventually ditched her and very soon afterwards married a very attractive, younger, rich woman. To this day his first wife won't talk ill of him. However, it really bothers me about his character. Just so you know Ross Perot has no use for McCain.
Personal life aside, he is just an unknown to me. Sure I think we cannot abandon the Iraqi people given they mess we put them in. However, the war is NOT our top priority. If we are in such international danger, then lets outsource this war to India & China. If it is international terrorism that affects us all, let other countries foot more of the bill and put their soldiers in harm's way.
I don't know yet exactly how I will vote. However, we all know that this is Obama's election to loose. The last election was won by Bush because the fear of "gay marriage" and to a lesser extent abortion and the righteousness of the war. Because of the war, and more importantly the failing economy, the right wing hasn't been able to put the "gay marriage" issue back on the radar.
John Doe
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I agree with the rest of what you say, but the U.S. is not a democracy. It's a federal republic.
Netzach
>semiotics?
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I'm more worried about the people McCain's top level advisors hang out with. Russian Mafia Aluminum moguls with ties to Putin, while in public he smacktalks Putin. Very very unsettling. Montenegro?
McCain sells favors to Russian Mafia through his lobbyists. How big do those favors have to get before anyone has issues?
I can afford a small tax hike and even 3000 dollars of bailout I disagree with better than I can afford that. Not doin' it.
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