Before You Vote For Obama....

[Bill3250]

don't want either one. still believe we might be speaking arabic (down the road) if Obama gets the chair. If Clinton gets the chair, Bill will used the White House as a Motel (at our expense) for more blow jobs. Hillary probably won't mind, keep him from being underfoot. Clintons had too many shady deals in the past. Listen to Dick Morris (prior Clinton aide). Morris hates Hillary and is now spilling the beans on the Clintons. I'd vote for Nixon rather then Obama or Clinton............one asshole is the same as another

In my lifetime, it's my belief that we've had two good presidents: Nixon and Clinton.

 

[kbate]

Actually the Roman Empire endured well into the 15th century AD - although most laymen call it the Byzantine Empire. In actuality, the Byzantine Empire was nothing more than the eastern arm of the Roman Empire and the two cannot be separated. The final demise of the Roman Empire did not come until the fall of Constantinople in 1453.

If America is Rome --- We should be proud. Roman power lasted 3000 years in one form or another.

***

The modern Greeks are not necessarily the same people who you read about in the Iliad and the Odyssey. Greece underwent a dark age (a time without writing) and was conquered repeatedly by: Sea Peoples, Germanics, Turks, Persians, Romans and others. The modern Greece did not come about until relatively recent times.

 

[south_florida_bicur]

I honestly think the top 3 were: JFK , Bill Clinton, and Ronald Raegan.

Yes, I realized the first 2 cheated on their wives but that does not make them a bad president. What made them great is what they did for the country. What they did behind closed doors made them scum as human beings.

The one thing that I did not like about Clinton was he had a gut feeling that Bin Laden was trouble and did nothing about it and do not say that he was busy with Lewinski. That is rediculous. Remember, the attack on USS Cole was done by the same people that attacked the Twin Towers and we did nothing about it.

I know Ronald Raegan was not the best financial strategist but he was just like you and me. He had alot of common sense and said what was on his mind. He did not let politics control him nor did he say something cannot be done if he strongly felt it can. He honestly thought that the wall could come down and people laughed at him. He was a real person!

BUT, we all know who the worst president was or should I say IS!!!!

 

[Etoile]

I thought FDR was pretty awesome.

 

[alaskabibear]

Bring'n on Moma

Does anyone else find it a bit humorous that Hilarious brought out her Mama and daughter to give her a reference and to vouch for her qualifications to be our next president? But what do I know? I suppose if it works for her I might try the same for my next job

 

[alaskabibear]

But now on a more serious note;

I think all of us should try to carefully consider which democratic candidate will have the best chance of defeating the republican in the general election (dang it - just saying that makes me want to get back on the box and start talking about how our whole electoral system is screwed up - but we tried that earlier so I will resist the urge) - Anyway, in my humble opinion I think that the "undecided swing voters" will be more likely to vote for a democrat if Obama (or Edwards) is the choice.

There is just too much negative emotion in the general populace around the Clintons. Lets face it, you either love 'em or hate 'em - but, the feelings run strong on both sides. Assuming a weak republican candidate ( a safe assumption from the looks of it), I think that most "undecided" people will vote for the hope of change in Washington if given a reasonable option. If those same people are given the choice of 8 more years of the Clinton clan, I think the chances of a republican victory are very real.

So, before everyone goes out and gets Hillary nominated as the Dem. candidate, just think of the end game for a moment. I just don't think she is electable. (okay, perhaps it's "I hope she isn't electable" - Why? Because, she's too old, she's to much old Washington politics, the Clinton clan has had there try, she will not bring unity to Washington - just more years of grid-lock, and if she as the first serious woman candidate should loose it will be a long time before another (more qualified) woman gets a chance).

Now see, I've gone and broke my rule about getting involved with politics - and to what end? Just wasted ink I fear.

 

[south_florida_bicur]

But now on a more serious note;

I think all of us should try to carefully consider which democratic candidate will have the best chance of defeating the republican in the general election (dang it - just saying that makes me want to get back on the box and start talking about how our whole electoral system is screwed up - but we tried that earlier so I will resist the urge) - Anyway, in my humble opinion I think that the "undecided swing voters" will be more likely to vote for a democrat if Obama (or Edwards) is the choice.

There is just too much negative emotion in the general populace around the Clintons. Lets face it, you either love 'em or hate 'em - but, the feelings run strong on both sides. Assuming a weak republican candidate ( a safe assumption from the looks of it), I think that most "undecided" people will vote for the hope of change in Washington if given a reasonable option. If those same people are given the choice of 8 more years of the Clinton clan, I think the chances of a republican victory are very real.

So, before everyone goes out and gets Hillary nominated as the Dem. candidate, just think of the end game for a moment. I just don't think she is electable. (okay, perhaps it's "I hope she isn't electable" - Why? Because, she's too old, she's to much old Washington politics, the Clinton clan has had there try, she will not bring unity to Washington - just more years of grid-lock, and if she as the first serious woman candidate should loose it will be a long time before another (more qualified) woman gets a chance).

Now see, I've gone and broke my rule about getting involved with politics - and to what end? Just wasted ink I fear.

I disagree with what you said.

1) Hillary Clinton born 10/26/1947
Current president was born 7/6/1946.

That makes him 1 yr older then she is. How do you say that she is too old for Washington. That also means when he took office for his 2nd term, he was 1 yr older then Hillary is now.

Ronald Raegan was president in 1981 which made him 70 yrs old when he took office. In case you forgot he was our 40th president from 1981 - 1989. Also, Bush Sr. was 65 yrs old when he took office.

I am not saying Obama or she will be our democratic nominee but I think your reasons are ridiculous.

2) The Clinton name will not hurt her at all. Matter of fact (and a poll was taken to prove my point) that if Bill Clinton ran in our last election, he would be the president today.

I've said enough....

 

[Etoile]

Y'know, I'd really like to vote for Kucinich. He's vegan, he's got cats (I think?), he votes the way I like on the issues I care about, etc. Plus Kucinich is a cool sounding name. But I don't think I can, because I don't think he's up high enough. That would be wasting my vote. I think Obama and Clinton are the only two who have a REAL possibility of winning the primaries, and Edwards is a close third, but Kucinich is out of the running IMHO.

But man, I can't wait until the primaries are over and we know who the candidate is and we can stick to talking about Democrat vs. Republican instead of all this internal Democratic stuff. To be honest, I DON'T CARE who the Democratic nominee is, I just read a comparison chart in The Advocate and they ALL seem fine to me. I just want a Democrat who will WIN THE PRESIDENCY. Whoever that is, I don't care, as long as they win.

 

[south_florida_bicur]

if you absolutely loved a 3rd party candidate would you vote for him knowing that you would most likely be wasting a vote?

 

[alaskabibear]

I disagree with what you said.

1) Hillary Clinton born 10/26/1947
Current president was born 7/6/1946.

That makes him 1 yr older then she is. How do you say that she is too old for Washington. That also means when he took office for his 2nd term, he was 1 yr older then Hillary is now.

Ronald Raegan was president in 1981 which made him 70 yrs old when he took office. In case you forgot he was our 40th president from 1981 - 1989. Also, Bush Sr. was 65 yrs old when he took office.

I am not saying Obama or she will be our democratic nominee but I think your reasons are ridiculous.

2) The Clinton name will not hurt her at all. Matter of fact (and a poll was taken to prove my point) that if Bill Clinton ran in our last election, he would be the president today.

I've said enough....

Florida..., I don't think you quite understood the point I was making about age. Our esteemed leader may be one year older than Hillary, but (and this is the point you missed) he started his term seven years ago and he is done (in his early 60's - a good time to retire I think). However, Miz Hillary is just in the starting blocks at the fresh young age of 60. Now assuming that she were to be elected, she could be pushing 69 before we could be rid of her (if she happened to be re-elected for a second term).

And yes I do remember well the the other two older gentlemen that you mentioned. In fact, it is memories of these two that helps to convince me that this nation needs younger men and women in both the congress and the presidency. (unless you don't recall, Ronald Reagan was in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease toward the end of his term and Bush Sr. simply ran out of energy in an election that he should have been able to easily win - they were just worn out and far to old to hold the highest office in the most powerful nation on earth.)

You may think my concerns are "ridiculous", however I think they are valid and should be considered. IMHO the need for age in our elected officials is overblown. What we need is maturity, vision and energy. Unfortunately, excessive age only tends to bring cynicism, fatigue and (in the case of many politicians) corruption and the "business as usual" attitude of those who are too long exposed to Washington politics.

And finally, who knows if the Clinton name is a negative or a positive. Makes one wonder though; what if Hillary were running on her own record and abilities - I doubt if she would even be a consideration. Still, there may be enough people who will vote Clinton because they think they might get some more of Bill, but there are also a lot of folks who don't want 8 more years of Bill & Hillary.

And the real point is; who will be able to beat the republican? (Edwards maybe?)

 

[alaskabibear]

Y'know, I'd really like to vote for Kucinich. He's vegan, he's got cats (I think?), he votes the way I like on the issues I care about, etc. Plus Kucinich is a cool sounding name. But I don't think I can, because I don't think he's up high enough. That would be wasting my vote. I think Obama and Clinton are the only two who have a REAL possibility of winning the primaries, and Edwards is a close third, but Kucinich is out of the running IMHO.

But man, I can't wait until the primaries are over and we know who the candidate is and we can stick to talking about Democrat vs. Republican instead of all this internal Democratic stuff. To be honest, I DON'T CARE who the Democratic nominee is, I just read a comparison chart in The Advocate and they ALL seem fine to me. I just want a Democrat who will WIN THE PRESIDENCY. Whoever that is, I don't care, as long as they win.

Etoile, I too want a Democrat to win, but it seems to me that the primary phase is actually the most important since it is now that we get a chance to choose that "Whoever" Democrat that might be able to win the general election. (Actually, I'm curious to see how Edwards comes out in the early primaries - he may just be the most electable Dem in the general election). That's why this internal Democratic discussion is important (IMHO).

 

[Bill3250]

Etoile, I too want a Democrat to win, but it seems to me that the primary phase is actually the most important since it is now that we get a chance to choose that "Whoever" Democrat that might be able to win the general election. (Actually, I'm curious to see how Edwards comes out in the early primaries - he may just be the most electable Dem in the general election). That's why this internal Democratic discussion is important (IMHO).

I also believe Edwards is the most electable, but all too many people seem to know about him is that he had a couple of $400 hair cuts.

Regardless who the Democratic nominee is, the GOP will find something to take the media coverage away from Iraq; the economy; health insurance; global warming; etc. the way they managed to make the last presidental election a referendum on gay marriage.

 

[south_florida_bicur]

Florida..., I don't think you quite understood the point I was making about age. Our esteemed leader may be one year older than Hillary, but (and this is the point you missed) he started his term seven years ago and he is done (in his early 60's - a good time to retire I think). However, Miz Hillary is just in the starting blocks at the fresh young age of 60. Now assuming that she were to be elected, she could be pushing 69 before we could be rid of her (if she happened to be re-elected for a second term).

And yes I do remember well the the other two older gentlemen that you mentioned. In fact, it is memories of these two that helps to convince me that this nation needs younger men and women in both the congress and the presidency. (unless you don't recall, Ronald Reagan was in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease toward the end of his term and Bush Sr. simply ran out of energy in an election that he should have been able to easily win - they were just worn out and far to old to hold the highest office in the most powerful nation on earth.)

You may think my concerns are "ridiculous", however I think they are valid and should be considered. IMHO the need for age in our elected officials is overblown. What we need is maturity, vision and energy. Unfortunately, excessive age only tends to bring cynicism, fatigue and (in the case of many politicians) corruption and the "business as usual" attitude of those who are too long exposed to Washington politics.

And finally, who knows if the Clinton name is a negative or a positive. Makes one wonder though; what if Hillary were running on her own record and abilities - I doubt if she would even be a consideration. Still, there may be enough people who will vote Clinton because they think they might get some more of Bill, but there are also a lot of folks who don't want 8 more years of Bill & Hillary.

And the real point is; who will be able to beat the republican? (Edwards maybe?)

I hear you and understand where you are coming from...

 

[Wolfman1982]

Can´t we all agree on, that we live in a VERY fuckedup world ? and it is getting more and more fuckedup by the years, and the little man or woman on the floor gets more and more screwed, whether she or he votes for the "good" guys or not ? Heck, I have regretted voting for the social democrats, since they don´t seem to me, that they are more social. Than the opposite.

 

[alaskabibear]

Can´t we all agree on, that we live in a VERY fuckedup world ? and it is getting more and more fuckedup by the years, and the little man or woman on the floor gets more and more screwed, whether she or he votes for the "good" guys or not ? Heck, I have regretted voting for the social democrats, since they don´t seem to me, that they are more social. Than the opposite.

Wolfman, If you recall, this is pretty much the same thing I said on my first post to this thread. But, in reality the world has always been a tough place to live. Wasn't that long ago that a wonderful leader by the name of A. Hitler was making a mess of things in Europe (and before, as well as after, him is an innumerable number of other screw-ups). It's just the ongoing condition of humanity I'm afraid. There is a constant ebb and flow of good times and bad for us all.

So, I don't think the world is getting worse per se. It's just more of the same ebb and flow. Where do we stand right now? It could be a lot worse I think.

The real problem arises when we place all of our hope for happiness and contentment on politicians and the government. I've said it before and I will say it again; the root cause of all of our problems is GREED. The rich want more and more even though they have more than they can ever use. Craving more, they use their excess wealth to purchase influence and power in the governmental systems that are supposed to serve us all. All of this in a vain attempt to satisfy the warped craving that is consuming them. My biggest fear is that due to the growth in population, economic globalization and our various governments inabilities to comprehend (much less control) this rampant GREED, we all may be facing a future far different than our present. What I speak of is a return to the past where the super rich minority sat in their castles and gazed down upon the "lower class". I think this is what you are seeing when you say "the social democrats do not seem any more social than the opposite".

 

[Bill3250]

If you care to face the facts, Republican or Democrat; right winger or left winger, virtually every single one of our elected public servents are in it for one person.....HIMSELF or HERSELF!

 

[kbate]

There are issues far more important than homosexuality at stake and I will not be voting for anyone whose agenda includes moving America more toward a Eurosocialist Welfare state, or intends to hand American Soveriegnty over to the UN and those people who would limit our rights.

 

[Wolfman1982]

kbate: UN is controlled by the US, so you shouldn´t worry about that shit. But the Lisbon deal, that the fuckers in EU has just signed, fucked all the little people in the EU . So you shouldn´t worry about the UN thing.

 

[alaskabibear]

There are issues far more important than homosexuality at stake and I will not be voting for anyone whose agenda includes moving America more toward a Eurosocialist Welfare state, or intends to hand American Soveriegnty over to the UN and those people who would limit our rights.

Well, it seems like a good idea not to vote for "those people who would limit our rights". (you know, basic rights - like being able to express ones own sexuality for example while enjoying the same rights as everyone else in America to marry and have a stable home life.) But, do tell; just who are these "people" that we should avoid voting for again?

 

[webshooter69]

kbate: UN is controlled by the US, so you shouldn´t worry about that shit. But the Lisbon deal, that the fuckers in EU has just signed, fucked all the little people in the EU . So you shouldn´t worry about the UN thing.

The UN is only FINANCED by us. We really have very little control, nor does anyone else. Anything of consequence has to go through the security council that has all the major players represented, and it only takes one veto to kill any action. Think about that.....get all the opposing points of view together and allow one veto to stop anything...LOL. All we get to do is pour money into the pit.

 

[alaskabibear]

Perhaps you ought to find out why he allows an anti gay bigot to appear on the stage with him at his rallies.

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/breaking-obama-says-wont-pull-anti-gay.html

Not sure if this is posted anywhere in the thread, but here is a web address that gives Obama's position on some GLBT issues; http://pride.barackobama.com (scroll down to the op-ed A Call for Full Equality).

 

[suxal]

Bush got elected twice because the stupid democrats ran the only person that the people hated worse than Bush.


THIS DEFINITELY WARRANTS LOOKING INTO. THI S COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, 'ONE NATION UNDER GOD'. ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT
THE GOD OF THE KORAN.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for
yourself.. Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U.S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in
Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from
Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita ,
Kansas
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two
years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya . His
mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia .
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia . Obama
attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two years in a
Catholic school.(note: Hilter also attened a Catholic school).
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is
quick to point out that, 'He was once a Mus lim, b ut that he also
attended Catholic school.' He does not say the Pledge of Allegiance,
sing the National Anthem, nor put his hand over his heart when others
pledge or sing.
Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this
influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned
to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct
influence over his son's education.
> >
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham,
introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school
in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the
Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.
Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major
public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined
the United Church of Christ in an
attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that
when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but
instead the Koran!! This is an insult to our believes and no other
government official has ever being sown in on anything other than our
Holy Bible!!! (Their equivalency to our Bible, but very different
beliefs).
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential
candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S.
from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest
level through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!!
If it comes down to being between him or Hillary .. then we REALLY
are between a rock and a hard place.

 

[DarkBee]

Bush got elected twice because the stupid democrats ran the only person that the people hated worse than Bush.


THIS DEFINITELY WARRANTS LOOKING INTO. THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, 'ONE NATION UNDER GOD'. ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT THE GOD OF THE KORAN.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself.. Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U.S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia.
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, 'He was once a Mus lim, but that he also attended Catholic school.' He does not say the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, nor put his hand over his heart when others
pledge or sing.
Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.
Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran!! This is an insult to our believes and no other government official has ever being sworn in on anything other than our Holy Bible!!! (Their equivalency to our Bible, but very different beliefs).
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level through the President of the United States, one of their own!!
If it comes down to being between him or Hillary .. then we REALLY are between a rock and a hard place.

Who said Muslims are bad people? And why should a country be run on religious grounds instead of political grounds? A leader of a state may choose any religion he/she wants and not be held account for that. Unfortunately, America is just as bad as, for instance, Iran or Saudia Arabia, where people are forced to take on a certain religion, especially when in high functions.

But hey, we're talking about America, my words don't make any sense there...

As an Agnost, I would also refuse to swear anything on any holy book, including the bible and the qur'an (maybe if they'd offer me the Kama Sutra... )

 

[lushlucid]

Honestly, I don't think things can get better for a while. It's going to take a MASSIVE operation to get us out of Iraq and tone things down in Afghanistan. It isn't like the new president can say "that's it, yank them out now." I wouldn't be surprised if we're still not in Iraq for another few years.

As far as H. Clinton is concerned, the woman scared me when her husband was in office. Something isn't right about her.

If things are going to change - it isn't so much the presidential elections we need to watch, although those are important. If a difference is to be made, it happens in the Senate and House. Most people tend to overlook that.

Have to agree with you their, our new prime minister was talking about getting troops out and then he got voted in and now he's saying it won't happen until 2010 or 2011. There is no instant fix for any countries problems.

 

[Etoile]

Bush got elected twice because the stupid democrats ran the only person that the people hated worse than Bush.


THIS DEFINITELY WARRANTS LOOKING INTO. THI S COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, 'ONE NATION UNDER GOD'. ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT THE GOD OF THE KORAN.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself.. Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U.S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita , Kansas Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya . His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia . When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia . Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two years in a Catholic school.(note: Hilter also attened a Catholic school). Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, 'He was once a Mus lim, b ut that he also attended Catholic school.' He does not say the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, nor put his hand over his heart when others pledge or sing. Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined
the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran!! This is an insult to our believes and no other government official has ever being sown in on anything other than our Holy Bible!!! (Their equivalency to our Bible, but very different beliefs). Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!! If it comes down to being between him or Hillary .. then we REALLY are between a rock and a hard place.

You are an idiot. Come back after you've read "Dreams from My Father" and, oh, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Fucking bigot.