Being a woman in geek culture

[marvelguy14]

mansplaining, stop doing it.

Oh really and none of the women are womansplaining? I can see this is a thread where man = wrong woman = always right.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh really and none of the women are womansplaining? I can see this is a thread where man = wrong woman = always right.

Well you won't get far telling women that what they have experienced is a figment of their imagination.



We've been talking about death threats and rape threats, which is hardly the same as bird shit on your car. You could learn something if you listened. If you can't listen then you can be an excellent example of the kind of thing we've been talking about.

 

[Bramblethorn]

(BTW, here is a good article about the whole "fake geek girl" thing.)

I'm not saying there's a problem with having a crush on an actor in a movie. The problem however is that some girls will pass themselves off as uber nerds when all they really care about is how hot the guy is.

I'm not entirely clear on why all these women want to pass themselves off as nerds. (Is there some sort of incentive plan I haven't heard about? Are they trying to seduce male nerds and steal their mint-condition comics?)

But for the sake of argument, let's suppose that it's absolutely true... so, why is it a "problem"? What do you or anybody else lose by it? This reminds me uncomfortably of the folk who believe that their man-woman marriages will somehow be undermined and devalued if same-sex folk are allowed to get hitched.

The world is a difficult place. There are plenty of good reasons to get worked up - injustice, suffering, people being jerks to one another, without needing to get harsh on people just because they're enjoying the same thing as you for different reasons, without hurting anybody.

Yeah men like eye candy don't see where I said they don't but there's a difference. Like I said guys will see a movie they clearly have no interest in if there's a hot woman in it. BUT they won't claim to be super fans of the movie they'll admit they just saw it for the women. Whereas in my experience women who clearly only saw a movie because of a guy will try to act like they're fans of the movie when it's clear they're not.

What are the acceptable, non-fake reasons for a person to enjoy a movie? What aspects do I have to appreciate in order to count as a genuine fan?

An example I'm a wrestling fan and there are plenty of female wrestlers who aren't the most attractive women in the world. But dammit they can wrestle so a lot of guys are fans of them. On the flip side there are hot women who can't wrestle at all, and the fans don't like them. Guys don't always need eye candy if someone is talented.

Mmm-hmm. So who are the non-eye-candy superheroines in movies lately?

And I never said just women had to prove themselves men do too, do you think if I want on a comic book site and said something stupid that I'd get respect? NOPE, if a person doesn't come across as fake then you'll get respect.

The difference is that a guy gets respect by default. He's only viewed as "coming across as fake" if he loses that respect by "saying something stupid". Innocent until proven guilty.

A woman starts out without that respect and has to show that she's a "genuine" geek. Guilty until proven innocent. When Natalie Portman is accused of being a "fake geek girl" because an attractive woman wearing a Star Wars T-shirt is obviously faking it, there's a wee bit of a problem.

You clearly don't get sarcasm thought the "Batman is DC and in the Justice League God dammit learn the difference between Marvel (Avengers) and DC (Batman) you assholes!!!211!" you see those numbers mixed with the exclamation points? Sign that I was just kidding thought it was pretty obvious might have to start announcing when I'm being sarcastic.

Sarcasm does not communicate well on the internet. Or as somebody put it, "Telepathy failures are not the fault of the recipient."

And I don't have to thank casual fans for anything. They aren't the reason the movie as made.

Really? You think the studios would have ponied up $200 million to make a movie just for the 100k "true fans" who buy the comic?

If The Avengers weren't initially popular with nerds in the first place there'd be no movie.

No Avengers movie, maybe. Instead the studios would've made something else... and that something-else would still have been pitched at and dependent on those tens of millions of "casual fans", not at a small group of grognards.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sense? lol ok. Bet if I bought one of them new fangled vagina's I'd be getting that response too. Alas.

Here's an interesting thing:

At no point in this discussion did I mention whether I happen to be in possession of a vagina*. You seem to have assumed that only a woman could be silly enough to disagree with your vast wisdom when you tell us there's no sexism here.

Do I need to point out that this is quite a sexist assumption?

*And I'm not going to; it's something that I choose not to disclose on these forums, either way. Partly because it's always interesting to see what people do assume.

 

[Recidiva]

Here's an interesting thing:

At no point in this discussion did I mention whether I happen to be in possession of a vagina*. You seem to have assumed that only a woman could be silly enough to disagree with your vast wisdom when you tell us there's no sexism here.

Do I need to point out that this is quite a sexist assumption?

*And I'm not going to; it's something that I choose not to disclose on these forums, either way. Partly because it's always interesting to see what people do assume.

So Bramblethorn's Vagina is kinda like Schroedinger's Cat.

Just to put it in geek terms

 

[KoPilot]

If it helps you sleep at night, sure pal that's true. lol I love how you can get away with stereotyping men with that but if I were to stereotype women I'd be the bad guy. Double standards for the win! My favorite type of Feminist the egotistical "men are just intimidated by strong women, yeah that's why men don't like me!" yep has nothing to do with your off putting arrogant nothing is ever my fault attitude.

1. Bramblethorn is way better at this than I am.

2. Who said I was a woman? Your assumption that we're all women in here is laughably ridiculous. You're also being a cissexist fuckwad by assuming that genitals make the woman. PS- do you mean the vaginal canal, the uterus and ovaries, the clitoris, what? The whole shebang? "Vagina" is only one part of that reproductive system, dummy. Sort out your anatomy before trying to use them in your comebacks.

3. Don't forget, buddy, that you invited yourself into our house, took a dump on the couch, and now because we're trying to make you clean it up we're suddenly bad hosts. Sorry, just cause you're a dude that doesn't mean you get to be relevant wherever you go. You are not relevant here.

 

[KoPilot]

Really? You think the studios would have ponied up $200 million to make a movie just for the 100k "true fans" who buy the comic?

Uh oh, Simpson's Comic Book Guy alert!

Look dude, the Legion of True Neckbeards only have so much in collective disposable income. You are not the reason we see Kirby's art on tshirts, socks, underwear and pajamas at Target. You are not responsible for the "golden age" of cape movies.

You're actually a pretty awful comic book fan, now that I think about it. You of all people should know what kind of circulation cape titles even get anymore. A single title is considered "holy shit wow" lucky if they make it to 100k sales. That's... less than 100k people buying a book. You honestly think, in all your vast, geeky wisdom, that 100k Twue Fans would have had enough money to help the Avenger's movie gross over a billion fucking dollars?

No.

Get your stupid head out of your stupid crusty ass.

Thank the casual fans, because you wouldn't have any of this to even bitch about if it weren't for them.

 

[KoPilot]

Oh and, tell me that comic book stores still aren't closing so I can laugh in your face.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So Bramblethorn's Vagina is kinda like Schroedinger's Cat.

Just to put it in geek terms

There's a Sci-Fi/Fantasy story in here somewhere. Or possibly Erotic Horror.

 

[Recidiva]

There's a Sci-Fi/Fantasy story in here somewhere. Or possibly Erotic Horror.

Boardata dentata.

 

[midwestyankee]

Here's a good takedown of former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson's opinion piece on the role of a male-centered "freewheeling culture" in the tech world as the key to innovation.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Here's a good takedown of former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson's opinion piece on the role of a male-centered "freewheeling culture" in the tech world as the key to innovation.

One sentence, really-- concise.

 

[KoPilot]

Here's a good takedown of former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson's opinion piece on the role of a male-centered "freewheeling culture" in the tech world as the key to innovation.

Awesome.

And yeah, I highly doubt talk about porking a girl from the club friday night at the water cooler contributes much to tech """innovation""".

 

[midwestyankee]

One sentence, really-- concise.

Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts.

 

[satindesire]

or "pretty/smarter than me/a bunch of bitches"

THAT.

Because conventionally attractive women have to be vapid shallow bitches OR perfect virginal Madonnas that you bring home to Mom and NEVER EVER FUCK but they can't be nerds or sexual. BECAUSE REASONS.

 

[satindesire]

If it helps you sleep at night, sure pal that's true. lol I love how you can get away with stereotyping men with that but if I were to stereotype women I'd be the bad guy. Double standards for the win! My favorite type of Feminist the egotistical "men are just intimidated by strong women, yeah that's why men don't like me!" yep has nothing to do with your off putting arrogant nothing is ever my fault attitude.

I love how you say you're not stereotyping women and women don't get treated worse in geek culture YET you're doing EXACTLY THE THINGS YOU CLAIM TO NOT BE DOING and you're so blind to it when we call you out for it you don't bother listening, you just shut your ears and go "I won't listen to you because you're a bitch!"

Yeah, hookay there bro. You keep doing you and we'll keep doing us, but don't expect us to think you're some kind of hero for coming in here and telling us that THE VERY THING WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED "just doesn't happen".

You're not a woman. You don't see it? BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A WOMAN. FUCKING DUH.

You're black? Unless a white person goes out of their way to educate themselves about racism they're not going to experience the racism that blacks face.

I'm a woman. Unless a man goes out of his way to educate himself about sexism you're not going to experience the sexism that women face.

Think about it, bro.

Edited to Add:

Not one single fuckin' person here is asking anyone to kiss women's asses. We just want to be heard and treated like our totally valid and actually rilly rill experiences are rilly rill. Denying something that you yourself have never had the opportunity to experience because you lack the very essential gender that would make those experiences EXPERIENCES doesn't make you "someone that doesn't kiss women's asses", it makes you a backwards dudebro that thinks that this is somehow some sort of post-feminist society and that women are actually treated "equally".

Guess what? It's not and we're not.

Time to buy a vowel, Pat.

 

[KoPilot]

Video: Questioning Male Cosplayer's Geek Cred To Prove A Point

Cute little piece of satire. Could have been a little teensy bit meaner, though.

 

[marvelguy14]

I love how you say you're not stereotyping women and women don't get treated worse in geek culture YET you're doing EXACTLY THE THINGS YOU CLAIM TO NOT BE DOING and you're so blind to it when we call you out for it you don't bother listening, you just shut your ears and go "I won't listen to you because you're a bitch!"

Yeah, hookay there bro. You keep doing you and we'll keep doing us, but don't expect us to think you're some kind of hero for coming in here and telling us that THE VERY THING WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED "just doesn't happen".

You're not a woman. You don't see it? BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A WOMAN. FUCKING DUH.

You're black? Unless a white person goes out of their way to educate themselves about racism they're not going to experience the racism that blacks face.

I'm a woman. Unless a man goes out of his way to educate himself about sexism you're not going to experience the sexism that women face.

Think about it, bro.

Edited to Add:

Not one single fuckin' person here is asking anyone to kiss women's asses. We just want to be heard and treated like our totally valid and actually rilly rill experiences are rilly rill. Denying something that you yourself have never had the opportunity to experience because you lack the very essential gender that would make those experiences EXPERIENCES doesn't make you "someone that doesn't kiss women's asses", it makes you a backwards dudebro that thinks that this is somehow some sort of post-feminist society and that women are actually treated "equally".

Guess what? It's not and we're not.

Time to buy a vowel, Pat.

First of all stop sarcastically calling me bro it's not funny or cute and is fucking obnoxious. I haven't used that word so I'm not sure why you keep calling me it in a mocking tone sis. God you guys are so fucking angry and rude it's a wonder anyone is even here, my God. I came in here with a nice attitude shared my experiences and opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and everyone so far has been so damn hostile to me. You can disagree with someone without being a sarcastic ass you guys.

And please educate me on where I was sexist, I NEVER said there wasn't sexism in geek culture now did I. Go ahead and check my posts because I'm 100% certain I never said it so get off your Goddamn soapbox. I'm going to go really slooow for you guys since you can't seem to read for shit. I said that in MY experience I haven't seen any sexism in geek culture, me not seeing any doesn't = there not being any just that I haven't seen any. Fuck what's hard to understand about that? I never said "I've never seen any sexist nerds so I guess they don't exist." I don't need a history lesson on the hardships of female geeks because I never denied them having any just said I haven't seen any.

But hey if everyone's going to get all pissy over someone they disagree with I shouldn't post here anymore. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Bramblethorn]

First of all stop sarcastically calling me bro it's not funny or cute and is fucking obnoxious. I haven't used that word so I'm not sure why you keep calling me it in a mocking tone sis. God you guys are so fucking angry and rude it's a wonder anyone is even here, my God.

And yet somehow we managed to have a long and mostly-cordial discussion about this stuff for quite a while before you showed up. See also: The Tone Argument.

I came in here with a nice attitude shared my experiences and opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and everyone so far has been so damn hostile to me.

Like Harlan Ellison said: "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

If somebody showed up on a comics forum opining that Batman should be in the next Avengers special, I doubt their opinion would be treated with a whole lot of respect. That's pretty much what you're doing here, and when you start off that way and argue with anybody who tries to inform you - yeah, you can expect hostility.

And please educate me on where I was sexist,

You mean aside from the bit where you assumed that somebody disagreeing with you must have a vagina?

I NEVER said there wasn't sexism in geek culture now did I. Go ahead and check my posts because I'm 100% certain I never said it so get off your Goddamn soapbox. I'm going to go really slooow for you guys since you can't seem to read for shit. I said that in MY experience I haven't seen any sexism in geek culture, me not seeing any doesn't = there not being any just that I haven't seen any. Fuck what's hard to understand about that?

(Why are you getting so angry and hostile? I swear, dudes get so temperamental when people contradict them.)

First off, it's a pretty low-value observation. It's like me walking into a hiking forum and saying "Hi, I'm from Australia, I've never seen a bear in the wild but as far as I know they're harmless." I'd just be wasting the time of people who actually spent some time learning something about the topic and are trying to have an intelligent discussion.

Second, it's not all you said. You went on to opine about how women and men get treated equally (while describing a double standard that's not actually "treated equally").

I never said "I've never seen any sexist nerds so I guess they don't exist." I don't need a history lesson on the hardships of female geeks because I never denied them having any just said I haven't seen any.

Ah, so when you walked in here saying "I'm a guy and I haven't seen sexism in geek culture" you weren't actually looking for anybody to discuss that with you?

In a discussion forum?

But hey if everyone's going to get all pissy over someone they disagree with I shouldn't post here anymore. Jesus fucking Christ.

God, he's so fucking angry and rude.

 

[marvelguy14]

And yet somehow we managed to have a long and mostly-cordial discussion about this stuff for quite a while before you showed up. See also: The Tone Argument.



Like Harlan Ellison said: "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

If somebody showed up on a comics forum opining that Batman should be in the next Avengers special, I doubt their opinion would be treated with a whole lot of respect. That's pretty much what you're doing here, and when you start off that way and argue with anybody who tries to inform you - yeah, you can expect hostility.



You mean aside from the bit where you assumed that somebody disagreeing with you must have a vagina?



(Why are you getting so angry and hostile? I swear, dudes get so temperamental when people contradict them.)

First off, it's a pretty low-value observation. It's like me walking into a hiking forum and saying "Hi, I'm from Australia, I've never seen a bear in the wild but as far as I know they're harmless." I'd just be wasting the time of people who actually spent some time learning something about the topic and are trying to have an intelligent discussion.

Second, it's not all you said. You went on to opine about how women and men get treated equally (while describing a double standard that's not actually "treated equally").



Ah, so when you walked in here saying "I'm a guy and I haven't seen sexism in geek culture" you weren't actually looking for anybody to discuss that with you?

In a discussion forum?



God, he's so fucking angry and rude.

*facepalm*

Where to even begin with this bullshit, how was what I said stupid? Saying I haven't seen any nerds be sexist irl is stupid now? And I didn't come into this thread hostile at all all of you were hostile to me first. And I said that I have seen female nerds and male nerds get treated equally I never said males and females in general get treated equally.

Your Batman analogy makes ZERO sense, if someone were to say something about Batman it could be proven false. If someone were to say something stupid like "Batman was created in 2010 by Justin Bieber." Then they can be proven wrong and ridiculed since it's a FACT that he was not created by Bieber. If someone were to share an experience about Batman like say that they've never met someone who wore Batman socks that's different. That's something they have observed and can't be proven wrong by strangers on the internet. Fact and experience are 2 different things.

You can discuss something without every damn post dripping with sarcasm.

I never said anyone who disagrees with me has a vagina,

And thanks for the generalizing of guys at the end of your post, now that's sexism. If I had said "women get so angry when challenged" I'd be getting killed but anti male attitudes are so kewl. Love how you feel no shame about saying that about men while bitching about me being sexist. The irony is so great.

 

[Bramblethorn]

But hey if everyone's going to get all pissy over someone they disagree with I shouldn't post here anymore.

74 minutes later:

Where to even begin with this bullshit, how was what I said stupid? Saying I haven't seen any nerds be sexist irl is stupid now? And I didn't come into this thread hostile at all all of you were hostile to me first.

Actually, as the thread history shows, I was quite polite to you for the first couple of posts. I wasn't terribly optimistic about it, because dudes who dive into discussions like this without doing their homework first are usually more interested in asserting their own uninformed opinions than in actually learning something. But I gave you the benefit of the doubt and replied politely. Then BiBunny commented that I was making sense, and you responded with:

Sense? lol ok. Bet if I bought one of them new fangled vagina's I'd be getting that response too. Alas.

When you "lol" at somebody's comments, and claim that somebody else is getting favourable treatment on account of their alleged vagina, you don't get to complain about other people being mean to you. (Well, you can, but you should expect this sort of response.)

 

[KoPilot]

I came in here with a nice attitude shared my experiences and opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and everyone so far has been so damn hostile to me. You can disagree with someone without being a sarcastic ass you guys.

You seem to fail to understand that this is a space for women and female-assigned people. You are not entitled to be here, you are not contributing to the discussion in any way except telling us things we already know in a bid to be relevant. Even in your first damn post you contradict yourself in a "I'm not sexist, but..."-quality moment:

Tbh I personally haven't noticed female geeks getting treated any worse than male geeks irl.

Plus there's the problem of females who are into nerdy things (like say superhero movies) just because they think the guys in them are hot. I know a lot of girls who only care about The Avengers and Thor because of Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston same with The Dark knight and Heath Ledger. i know females who are into superhero movies regardless of how the guys in the movies look as well but you can't deny a lot of female fans seem to care more about the looks of the guys. So some guys on teh interwebz just assume that a lot of female posters are either guys pretending to be girls, girls who only care about the "hot" guy actors or girls who really don't care about geek culture and just want attention.

The subject of "fake geek girls" was so goddamn important to you that you spent a paragraph on it.

Apparently you need us to go really slooow, so here, I'll spell it out: this is s-e-l-f c-o-n-t-r-a-d-i-c-t-o-r-y. You are being a s-e-x-i-s-t h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e here. You are mansplaining ("these females in here probably don't know how much of a problem fake geek girls are, I should warn them") something that doesn't actually exist.

Your entitled, militantly ignorant mantears taste delicious.

(Look at all these links I've found for you! Look at all the links others have spent the time to find and share with you. Have you clicked any of them and learned yerself a thing or two? Doesn't sound like it.)

And please educate me on where I was sexist, I NEVER said there wasn't sexism in geek culture now did I.

Oops, just did. Whether or not my explanation is palatable enough for you (evolution is never palatable enough for fundies, so there's only so much a mortal can do in the face of willful ignorance) is another question. There's a reason vegetables don't taste like ramen and doughnuts.

I said that in MY experience I haven't seen any sexism in geek culture

You fail to realize why we don't give shit about this admission. Especially coming from a dude.

You gonna walk into a NAACP meeting as a white guy and think anyone there is going to appreciate your """perspective""" that racism is something you've just never witnessed?

You're not enlightening anybody.

Here, since I'm feeling somewhat charitable, I've found you links to read about why your definition of sexism is completely incorrect and is one that benefits you rather than women (and other not-men).

Finally Feminism 101: What is 'Sexism'?

The Cynical Girl: Institutional Sexism

Stop Complaining About Reverse Sexism: It Doesn't Exist

But hey if everyone's going to get all pissy over someone they disagree with I shouldn't post here anymore. Jesus fucking Christ.

And nothing of value was lost.

Oh and hey, what happened to your impassioned arguing against the masses of insufferable poser casual fans, huh? Too much of a man to admit how dumb and nonsensical that stance was?

 

[KoPilot]

When you "lol" at somebody's comments, and claim that somebody else is getting favourable treatment on account of their alleged vagina, you don't get to complain about other people being mean to you. (Well, you can, but you should expect this sort of response.)

I actually prefer this one: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67ucv_stupidest-thing-i-ve-ever-heard_fun

I award you no points, Marvelguy14, and may god have mercy on your soul.

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: marvelguy14...methinks the douchebag doth protest too much.

 

[satindesire]

First of all stop sarcastically calling me bro it's not funny or cute and is fucking obnoxious. I haven't used that word so I'm not sure why you keep calling me it in a mocking tone sis. God you guys are so fucking angry and rude it's a wonder anyone is even here, my God. I came in here with a nice attitude shared my experiences and opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and everyone so far has been so damn hostile to me. You can disagree with someone without being a sarcastic ass you guys.

And please educate me on where I was sexist, I NEVER said there wasn't sexism in geek culture now did I. Go ahead and check my posts because I'm 100% certain I never said it so get off your Goddamn soapbox. I'm going to go really slooow for you guys since you can't seem to read for shit. I said that in MY experience I haven't seen any sexism in geek culture, me not seeing any doesn't = there not being any just that I haven't seen any. Fuck what's hard to understand about that? I never said "I've never seen any sexist nerds so I guess they don't exist." I don't need a history lesson on the hardships of female geeks because I never denied them having any just said I haven't seen any.

But hey if everyone's going to get all pissy over someone they disagree with I shouldn't post here anymore. Jesus fucking Christ.

I keep calling you Bro because you're acting like one, Bro. If you think that's obnoxious, take a fucking look in the mirror, because guess what? So are you.

You didn't come in here "nice". You came in here and said that the very things that -every single one of us has faced- "doesn't happen". You claimed that the experiences that we have ALL had "doesn't happen". And then you were a hypocrite, and did the very things you claimed you didn't do. How is that "nice"? If that's your definition of "nice", then half of the people on this forum are Saints.

By the way, we can disagree with you without being sarcastic, but why should we? Because we're women so we HAVE to be nice? Why should we be nice to a sexist ass who contradicted himself multiple times and proved himself to be a douchebag that thinks that women getting equal treatment equals kissing their asses?

You came in here with your VERY FIRST POST already not listening. Why should we be bothered to educate some dudebro who thinks he's got his finger on the pulse of female experiences in geek culture? You can't be bothered to be non-sarcastic and rude, so WHY should we be nice to you when you can't be bothered to be nice to us? Oh, wait, it's because we're GIRLS and we're supposed to meekly accept it when people are assholes and not retaliate with like behavior. SORRY ABOUT THAT BRO. I don't do "gender roles".

You by your very nature already think you know what's going on and you've already proven yourself unwilling to learn. You pranced in here so full of yourself and proud that you don't "kiss women's asses" because yeah, that's what you think we want.