Being a woman in geek culture

[satindesire]

I want one of those anime pillow girls for Christmas!

And I've been a good boy. Girl. Whatever.

I think everyone wants a wiafu.

 

[Recidiva]

I get where you're coming from in the rest of your post, and there we're going to have to agree to disagree.

But here, I really disagree. It's like saying you can't use violence to defend yourself, because that's what the oppressors do. There comes a point where yes, sometimes you end up using the same tactics that fuck you over. We're not all pacifist buddhist monks who practice complete non-resistance. I mean, if you go back a dozen pages or so, you'll see the discussion we had with BrightlyGo in which he accused us of being just as bad as the people we were complaining about because this was a space primarily for women and the female-assigned rather than a completely "egalitarian" space. How far you personally distance yourself from the thing you hate isn't any of my business.

And at the end of the day, the dick is a symbol of the power of violence, and lots of people are complicit and in agreement with that symbolism. Trans* men are capable of being just as sexist and loudly misogynistic as any cis man, and as soon as they pass, they wield male privilege from the assumption that they were born with a dick.

In this situation, I used the dick joke in the same way that I would prod at someone's whiteness. And as somebody that's read as white but isn't, I can tell you that there's a difference between making someone's whiteness the subject of a jab, and their lack of whiteness as the same. A huge difference.

Here's a thoughtful tangent on a subject but not directed at you.

I tend to comment on effort and choices, and not on anatomy or inherent things.

Gender, small/big dick small/big boobs...inherent things. Now, with modern surgical possibilities, this has changed, but for me, doing surgery is making a choice about something they want to be inherent. I still tend to avoid it. Though I might comment about botched surgery, why do people do that...but then it's about the choice.

Commenting about someone's inherent character or anatomy...things they can't choose, is in my opinion, mean.

So if I see someone doing something I consider out of bounds, it's out of bounds no matter who it comes from. Insulting something inherent is a way to make a person feel inadequate about something that no effort or choice of theirs influenced in creation.

Calling out someone's character, their choices, their use of their intelligence, is something they can do something about, so that's why I would do it.

I generally only call reasonably smart people stupid, because it means that I think they're using their intelligence in a way that makes their behavior stupid. I'm discussing their choices, not their inherent ability.

Actual stupid people just get my compassion because they can't do a damned thing about it and it's inherent.

 

[SilverbackUK]

Culture by its very definition necessitates that some group of people find it to be a "haven", an inside as opposed to an outside. "Geekdom" is not an objectively defined category that exists outside of human experience, it is defined completely by the experiences of the people who adopt the mantle. So you're wrong here.

Superman uses a phone booth as a changing room. Therefore phone booths are changing rooms?

Subjective definition does not over ride objective reality.

Geekdom may well be a haven to some, that doesn't mean it is a haven.

What these posts all have in common, like your previous note about choosing to be victims, is the idea that your voice as a man gets to trump ours here.

Nope. My voice is that of one person disagreeing with another, regardless of gender. And promptly getting - pardon the phrase - bitchslapped because of my gender.

Clearly you have missed the point. Let me switch things up and frame this in a way that you might more easily understand.

You are going out of town for a few weeks and decide to hire someone to house and pet sit for you while you're gone. You get two candidates, each of whom can work for a week: a white man and a black man.

You ask the black man for a criminal background check, personal and professional references, and insist that he is bonded.

Do I?

What do you base that assertion on? Other than thinking you get to define how I'm bound to act.

I'm used to the idea that people on the internet react to what they think was said as opposed to what was actually said, but you might at least try not to look as though you're trying to both argue one side of the case and serve as judge and arbiter for the whole thing...

As I say, it's a waste of time trying to have a sensible conversation under these circumstances, but I do reserve the right to point out some of the more asinine replies...

Cheers

 

[Keroin]

Do I?

What do you base that assertion on? Other than thinking you get to define how I'm bound to act.

I'm used to the idea that people on the internet react to what they think was said as opposed to what was actually said, but you might at least try not to look as though you're trying to both argue one side of the case and serve as judge and arbiter for the whole thing...

As I say, it's a waste of time trying to have a sensible conversation under these circumstances, but I do reserve the right to point out some of the more asinine replies...

Cheers

And you've missed the point again. I was trying to point out that the behaviour you see as no big thing would be considered completely unacceptable if we were discussing race and not gender.

Also, it's purely metaphorical. I have no idea what you would do in such a situation in real life.

But here we are again, that trap where we have to waste our time educating someone who refuses either to believe there is a systemic problem or believes that in the face of that problem the onus is on those who are discriminated against to prove themselves.

Emphatically: Fuck no.

 

[midwestyankee]

As I get caught up here, I'm reminded of something that Voltaire once said: “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

 

[Keroin]

As I get caught up here, I'm reminded of something that Voltaire once said: “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

Voltaire was smart. *nods*

 

[satindesire]

As I get caught up here, I'm reminded of something that Voltaire once said: “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

God damn, way to wrap up Silverback's/almost every other guy's entire posting history here.

 

[SilverbackUK]

And you've missed the point again. I was trying to point out that the behaviour you see as no big thing would be considered completely unacceptable if we were discussing race and not gender.

Also, it's purely metaphorical. I have no idea what you would do in such a situation in real life.

So if people do bad things they're bad? It's hardly a blinding revelation, is it?

Made even less so, because I haven't defined any behavior as being no big deal. (I did point out that 'some men are dicks to some women', which got me a kicking for stating the bleeding obvious though... )

But here we are again, that trap where we have to waste our time educating someone who refuses either to believe there is a systemic problem or believes that in the face of that problem the onus is on those who are discriminated against to prove themselves.

Emphatically: Fuck no.

Nope, the waste of time is in trying to discuss anything when one side is repeatedly just engaging in the internet game of Making Shit Up.

I don't think anyone needs to 'prove themselves' per se.

I do think if they're going to accuse anyone - specifically or generically - else of anything, some proof might be useful, but that's just my quaint old belief in 'innocent until proven guilty' rearing its unwelcome head again...

FWIW, if the OP is upset, hurt, agonised, offended, whatever by what they perceive the situation to be, that's not good and I wouldn't dismiss it as trivial from their point of view. I just don't think they automatically get to define theirs as the only point of view or the overwhelming one.

In a world where women are denied basic education, if you happen to have a 'geek job' - ie: one that depends on hard science/engineering skills, you're pretty much already in a field where you get better pay, better prospects, better salary and waaaay more job satisfaction than many many others, regardless of gender.

In a world where women struggle to raise kids alone, put up with abusive partners and do whatever they have to to stay afloat, geekdom, by its inherent nature involves people with disposable income spending money on what is essentially pricey entertainment.

Regardless of gender, someone being mean to geeks is pretty much a first world problem! Even when that involves boys not wanting girls in the clubhouse.

And since the OP asked for advice, and in the spirit of everyone owning their shit, I may as well pour a final quart of gas on the inferno and point out that the best way to avoid being seen as, or used as, a doormat is not to lie on the floor and let people walk on you.

If someone's giving you crap, stop taking it. However difficult that might be.

Cheers

 

[SilverbackUK]

As I get caught up here, I'm reminded of something that Voltaire once said: “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

Alternatively, ""The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Cheers

 

[satindesire]

Nope, the waste of time is in trying to discuss anything when one side is repeatedly just engaging in the internet game of Making Shit Up.

I don't think anyone needs to 'prove themselves' per se.

I do think if they're going to accuse anyone - specifically or generically - else of anything, some proof might be useful, but that's just my quaint old belief in 'innocent until proven guilty' rearing its unwelcome head again...

FWIW, if the OP is upset, hurt, agonised, offended, whatever by what they perceive the situation to be, that's not good and I wouldn't dismiss it as trivial from their point of view. I just don't think they automatically get to define theirs as the only point of view or the overwhelming one.

In a world where women are denied basic education, if you happen to have a 'geek job' - ie: one that depends on hard science/engineering skills, you're pretty much already in a field where you get better pay, better prospects, better salary and waaaay more job satisfaction than many many others, regardless of gender.

In a world where women struggle to raise kids alone, put up with abusive partners and do whatever they have to to stay afloat, geekdom, by its inherent nature involves people with disposable income spending money on what is essentially pricey entertainment.

Regardless of gender, someone being mean to geeks is pretty much a first world problem! Even when that involves boys not wanting girls in the clubhouse.

And since the OP asked for advice, and in the spirit of everyone owning their shit, I may as well pour a final quart of gas on the inferno and point out that the best way to avoid being seen as, or used as, a doormat is not to lie on the floor and let people walk on you.

If someone's giving you crap, stop taking it. However difficult that might be.

Cheers

..............

I didn't come here asking advice from anyone. I asked people how THEY dealt with the rampant sexism in geek culture.

Here's the facts, simplified: If you are not a black person, you are not going to see the racism that black people go through unless you actively educate yourself. I said that as a metaphor/example for the next sentence:

As a man, you are not going to see the sexism that women go through unless you actively educate yourself.

Unfortunately, you're the kind of person that brushes it off as minor when a systematic institution of bigotry rears it's ugly head without being even slightly willing to consider that each microaggression is a SYMPTOM of a much larger and more threatening issue. Because you're not female and you don't experience it, you're not even slightly willing to consider that our combined experiences are consistent examples of sexism.

Your answer is "Ignore it because some people are horrible to some people. It has NOTHING to do with gender."

No boo boo, it does. You're just not willing to be open minded enough to get some enlightenment.

Alternatively, ""The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Cheers

"But if enough pebbles vote together, the avalanche will stop. Ignoring the avalanche will only make it worse."

Cheers.

 

[satindesire]

ALSO: Heads UP!

I made a thread on Fetlife:

https://fetlife.com/groups/5185/group_posts/4469832

 

[Keroin]

Nope, the waste of time is in trying to discuss anything when one side is repeatedly just engaging in the internet game of Making Shit Up.

And there you have it. All of us women here (and presumably every woman who complains about sexism and misogyny), we're just making shit up.

Never heard that before, have we?

I could go on and on (we should be grateful, even if we're discriminated against, because other people have things worse) but my time is too valuable.

 

[Primalex]

As I get caught up here, I'm reminded of something that Voltaire once said: “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

Why would it? As if it could choose to ignore gravity and friction.

 

[Primalex]

there's a difference between making someone's whiteness the subject of a jab, and their lack of whiteness as the same. A huge difference.

Please correct me if I got you wrong, but you are saying:

"You have no clue, because you are a Jew." is racism.
"You have no clue, because you are not a Jew." is not racism.

 

[Recidiva]

I grew up with two brothers who harangued me incessantly about being "too sensitive" and I used to try to become less and less sensitive.

Now, I had a dad who genuinely was...completely insensitive. Physically insensitive to the point that he can't tell if he's sick and can't really process pain at all. He's at risk for infections often because he can't detect a threat to his system, he can't feel it.

I learned to honor and value my sensitivities. I recognize them as an alarm system that I need to let me know when something's wrong.

I reject the worldview that sensitivities must be crushed and stamped out.

So that's why I reject "becoming a man" or it being "a man's world" because I have a number of assets that I managed to preserve into adulthood and that I have access to, through being sensitive to my own needs and seeing how lack of sensitivity has cost other human beings a lot of access to their own humanity.

I don't need to "want to be a man" and to tell the truth, I find that the typical abusive guy is not "the king of the world" but someone terrified of NOT being the alpha and the pack turning on them.

In the wild, alphas don't make out as well as depicted. Lots of lion kings die of ulcers or being torn apart by their competitors.

I don't want to be an alpha, I don't want to be a man, and I refuse to be forced to live by a code that I think is ultimately harmful.

I'm immune to being intimidated into my place. I'm in my place and that's too damned bad for you if you can't do anything about it and I'm a threat to your world view.

 

[Keroin]

I reject the worldview that sensitivities must be crushed and stamped out.

This, very much. I am a work in progress in this department. Years upon years of playing the man's game to earn a living and thrive meant that my sensitive self had to get tied up, duct taped, and locked in a closet. She's a bit shell-shocked but she's coming around slowly.

Interestingly, the more I reconnect with that softer, more empathetic me, the stronger I feel inside. Makes me realize just how exhausting it was to always keep my fists up.

I actually understand where people like Silverback are coming from because I might have made the same silly arguments even three or four years ago. It has taken some time to really listen and understand that women have a right to feel how they feel about mistreatment and I have no right to tell them how they *should* feel or respond. By doing so, I'm part of the problem.

So... work in progress.

 

[Recidiva]

This, very much. I am a work in progress in this department. Years upon years of playing the man's game to earn a living and thrive meant that my sensitive self had to get tied up, duct taped, and locked in a closet. She's a bit shell-shocked but she's coming around slowly.

Interestingly, the more I reconnect with that softer, more empathetic me, the stronger I feel inside. Makes me realize just how exhausting it was to always keep my fists up.

I actually understand where people like Silverback are coming from because I might have made the same silly arguments even three or four years ago. It has taken some time to really listen and understand that women have a right to feel how they feel about mistreatment and I have no right to tell them how they *should* feel or respond. By doing so, I'm part of the problem.

So... work in progress.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean by that. It's an unexpected 180 with so many insidious ramifications and revealing insights.

I don't think women have been "weaker" throughout history, because I think women were busy having kids and being inherently creative and relevant and guys had to go out and do something to prove themselves.

I think women have been busy being the heart of the family. I went another step further and really embraced being a mom and a homemaker and although I also have a job and I love it, I think that being a mom and the heart of the home is the best thing I've done with my life.

Guys CAN'T do what I've done. For that, they get my complete sympathy.

Being part of a river of childbearing women that faced so many of the same issues and seeing those choices reflected in culture and stories and myth helped me navigate.

I don't actually have career ambition and so my focus and experience is completely different. A guy cannot do what I've done. What I've done is so cool and so amazing...I feel sorry for guys.

But when I hear stories like on "Restrepo" where a hyper-male culture of soldiers decide that when you leave or when you come back, you have to beat each other up as a rite of passage...although I sympathize with the pressures...

Yeah, that's fucked up. You guys are fucked up. No, do not give me a lecture about how I don't get male culture an the pressures of being in the army. Stop fucking hurting each other and glorifying it. If I were in the army and I were at that camp, you bet your ass that I wouldn't permit anybody putting their hands on me in any form that wasn't strictly having to do with training. This childish bullshit ends in my presence.

You think women aren't suited for military service? I don't think military service is suited for a human beings, much less women. Get your shit together.

 

[Keroin]

This just came to me and I have to post it here before it slips out of my over-crowded middle-aged brain.

Here is what I find so baffling about men who comment in threads like this or post comments on blogs related to this topic, with the seemingly innocuous (to them) "I disagree!" sentiment...

I would never go onto a thread titled "Being a disabled person in geek culture" and tell disabled people they are wrong, or I disagree with them, or ask them to provide proof of discrimination. I would never do that on a "Being an LGTB person in geek culture" thread. I would never do that on a "Being an Asian in geek culture" thread. Never.

Because I am not and never have been disabled, LGBT, or a race other than Caucasian. So who the fuck cares if I think they're wrong or I disagree? And what arrogance, on my part, to think that they need to be told something like that by someone who has never and will never live inside their skin and know what they experience on a daily basis? If I did that, I would consider myself a supremely ignorant ass.

I might go on, express sympathy and/or ask how I could help bring about positive change.

 

[Bramblethorn]

In a world where women are denied basic education, if you happen to have a 'geek job' - ie: one that depends on hard science/engineering skills, you're pretty much already in a field where you get better pay, better prospects, better salary and waaaay more job satisfaction than many many others, regardless of gender.

About that:

My partner has a couple of decades of IT support experience. She gets along well with other staff, she knows how to handle customers, she has a record of excellent performance ratings in big-name tech companies. Good enough that a Fortune 200 was willing to make an exception to their employment policies in order to hang on to her.

But she's close to 50, and as she ages she's found it harder and harder to get work. As discussed upthread, it's almost never possible to prove bias in one individual hiring decision, and IT support is a difficult market these days with so much of it being moved offshore. Still, it's hard to avoid the impression that the combination of "middle-aged" and "female" is a major liability.

One time she applied for a job at a company where she had worked previously, in the same role as she had worked previously, and had achieved stellar KPIs and good working relationships with her colleagues. The process was handled by an external recruiter who looked at that record and knocked her back anyway because "we don't think you'd fit into the office culture".

So, yeah, it's gotten to the point where she has given up trying to get back into the industry, and has gone back to university for 3 years to change careers. In the meantime we're a single-income family. "Better prospects"? Hardly.

In a world where women struggle to raise kids alone, put up with abusive partners and do whatever they have to to stay afloat, geekdom, by its inherent nature involves people with disposable income spending money on what is essentially pricey entertainment.

Erm... plenty of geek women are also raising kids alone and/or dealing with abusive partners. These things aren't exclusive.

Regardless of gender, someone being mean to geeks is pretty much a first world problem! Even when that involves boys not wanting girls in the clubhouse.

If you consider a flood of death threats and rape threats accompanied by people attempting to incite harassment at your home address to be a "first world problem", then, why, yes.

And since the OP asked for advice, and in the spirit of everyone owning their shit, I may as well pour a final quart of gas on the inferno and point out that the best way to avoid being seen as, or used as, a doormat is not to lie on the floor and let people walk on you.

If someone's giving you crap, stop taking it. However difficult that might be.

As long as you're aware that women are also punished bigtime for being assertive about this stuff.

 

[Recidiva]

This just came to me and I have to post it here before it slips out of my over-crowded middle-aged brain.

Here is what I find so baffling about men who comment in threads like this or post comments on blogs related to this topic, with the seemingly innocuous (to them) "I disagree!" sentiment...

I would never go onto a thread titled "Being a disabled person in geek culture" and tell disabled people they are wrong, or I disagree with them, or ask them to provide proof of discrimination. I would never do that on a "Being an LGTB person in geek culture" thread. I would never do that on a "Being an Asian in geek culture" thread. Never.

Because I am not and never have been disabled, LGBT, or a race other than Caucasian. So who the fuck cares if I think they're wrong or I disagree? And what arrogance, on my part, to think that they need to be told something like that by someone who has never and will never live inside their skin and know what they experience on a daily basis? If I did that, I would consider myself a supremely ignorant ass.

I might go on, express sympathy and/or ask how I could help bring about positive change.

Not a complete list of motivations, but I'd start with arrogance with intimidation and work the way down to a justification that ends up doing the same thing, but thinks of itself as a somewhat benign authority that becomes affronted at the lack of respect and gratitude that is given back after such a gift of guidance is granted.

Some people aren't aware of what or why they're doing it, and some are.

An inability to recognize personal boundaries or social boundaries usually indicates someone who had their boundaries obliterated themselves and now they like to do it to other folks to make it all come out even.

'course some people are just (insert non-gender-defined icky word here) and don't really require that much analysis.

 

[SilverbackUK]

..............

I didn't come here asking advice from anyone. I asked people how THEY dealt with the rampant sexism in geek culture.

Ahem:

What are your thoughts about this?

Have you experienced sexism in geek culture due to your gender?

How do YOU deal with it?

Here's the facts, simplified: If you are not a black person, you are not going to see the racism that black people go through unless you actively educate yourself. I said that as a metaphor/example for the next sentence:

As a man, you are not going to see the sexism that women go through unless you actively educate yourself.

Simplified to the point of gross distinction of probable behavior by race or gender? Isn't that racism and sexism?

Unfortunately, you're the kind of person that brushes it off as minor when a systematic institution of bigotry rears it's ugly head without being even slightly willing to consider that each microaggression is a SYMPTOM of a much larger and more threatening issue. Because you're not female and you don't experience it, you're not even slightly willing to consider that our combined experiences are consistent examples of sexism.

And you're the kind of person who tells strangers what kind of person they are... You must swear to use your awesome powers of insight only for good!

Your answer is "Ignore it because some people are horrible to some people. It has NOTHING to do with gender."

Some people are horrible to some other people. Always have been, always will be, our history as a species is always about 'us' vs 'them'.

The answer - to me, personal opinion, YMMV - is either ignore it or do something about it. With a proviso that if you're willing to enable it, you don't get to bitch about it later.

No boo boo, it does. You're just not willing to be open minded enough to get some enlightenment.

Alternatively, I'm not simple-minded enough to swallow your 'enlightenment' without question...

Cheers.

 

[SilverbackUK]

And there you have it. All of us women here (and presumably every woman who complains about sexism and misogyny), we're just making shit up.

Never heard that before, have we?

I could go on and on (we should be grateful, even if we're discriminated against, because other people have things worse) but my time is too valuable.

Making Shit Up about what other people have said or meant, not about the basic problems, which we all know exist.

QED.

Cheers (Incidentally, you have almost 8,000 posts on an erotic literature forum. Your time being too valuable may not be quite the crushing dismissal you were aiming for there...)

 

[SilverbackUK]

This just came to me and I have to post it here before it slips out of my over-crowded middle-aged brain.

Here is what I find so baffling about men who comment in threads like this or post comments on blogs related to this topic, with the seemingly innocuous (to them) "I disagree!" sentiment...

So a discussion thread where no one is supposed/allowed to disagree?

Interesting concept...

Apocryphally, when a man takes a problem to his friends he's looking for a solution, when a woman does it she's looking for support.

Cheers

 

[SilverbackUK]

About that:

My partner has a couple of decades of IT support experience. She gets along well with other staff, she knows how to handle customers, she has a record of excellent performance ratings in big-name tech companies. Good enough that a Fortune 200 was willing to make an exception to their employment policies in order to hang on to her.

But she's close to 50, and as she ages she's found it harder and harder to get work. As discussed upthread, it's almost never possible to prove bias in one individual hiring decision, and IT support is a difficult market these days with so much of it being moved offshore. Still, it's hard to avoid the impression that the combination of "middle-aged" and "female" is a major liability.

One time she applied for a job at a company where she had worked previously, in the same role as she had worked previously, and had achieved stellar KPIs and good working relationships with her colleagues. The process was handled by an external recruiter who looked at that record and knocked her back anyway because "we don't think you'd fit into the office culture".

So, yeah, it's gotten to the point where she has given up trying to get back into the industry, and has gone back to university for 3 years to change careers. In the meantime we're a single-income family. "Better prospects"? Hardly.

Run that by me again.. 20 years in a male dominated industry and getting to a point where employers go the extra mile to retain you is indicative of poor prospects?

FWIW, I'm 56, with 30+ years in IT. I effectively retired a couple of years back because it wasn't worth the arseache of competing against younger and better qualified people for the work available.

Nobody gets to ride the merry go round forever, however much they'd like to.

Erm... plenty of geek women are also raising kids alone and/or dealing with abusive partners. These things aren't exclusive.

If you consider a flood of death threats and rape threats accompanied by people attempting to incite harassment at your home address to be a "first world problem", then, why, yes.

Speaking of PMSU...

No one has said they are exclusive. Because they obviously aren't.

Death threats, rape threats and inciting harrassment are not acceptable. But again, no one is saying they are.

Moral relativism be damned, there is need for a sense of proportion when faced with differing degrees of unacceptable behavior.

Not every snowflake is an avalanche. It's... overly optimistic... to expect everyone to treat everything as a major issue.

As long as you're aware that women are also punished bigtime for being assertive about this stuff.

Hence my caveat 'However difficult that might be'.

For context, not 'proving myself' to anyone, in 30 years I've fired or terminated three people for sexual harassment/racism/anti-Semitism and been involved in tribunals for half a dozen more where people ended up getting the boot...

I've seen at least twice as many cases where people have been encouraged to make a complaint and have refused to do so.

No one is saying it's easy. But a system to promote equality can only work if people make it work.

And that's without touching on the idea that 90odd% of geek literature and drama is about heroism and the underdog taking a stand to win the day...

Cheers

 

[satindesire]

Ahem:

Here's a sample of my perpetual motion eye rolling machine, free of charge, Cowboy.

I asked people directly how THEY dealt with it. I clearly and obviously did not ask for help on how they thought -I- should deal with it.

Asking people what their experiences were and how they handled it does not equal asking people for help.

Nice try. You still get an F though.

Simplified to the point of gross distinction of probable behavior by race or gender? Isn't that racism and sexism?

You obviously have no idea how racism or sexism works. I'm guessing you're probably a straight white man and have NEVER faced long term discrimination, oppression and bigotry -ever in your life-. If you had, you'd be able to empathize. Since you cannot, let me simplify this for you again: Check your fucking privilege.

And you're the kind of person who tells strangers what kind of person they are... You must swear to use your awesome powers of insight only for good!

I'm actually the evil antagonist of your make believe story about how sexism doesn't exist. Don't worry, I won't monologue once I trap you in my underground volcano lair. I don't waste time on shit like that.

Some people are horrible to some other people. Always have been, always will be, our history as a species is always about 'us' vs 'them'.

The answer - to me, personal opinion, YMMV - is either ignore it or do something about it. With a proviso that if you're willing to enable it, you don't get to bitch about it later.

Translation: Sexism doesn't exist, so you don't get to whine about it. And I'm not willing to listen to your facts and logic and proof in order to get my mind changed. *puts fingers in ears* I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LAAAAA!!!

Alternatively, I'm not simple-minded enough to swallow your 'enlightenment' without question...

Cheers.

You're not "questioning" anything. You're downright TELLING US that sexism doesn't exist and you're not willing to get your mind changed. You didn't come here to learn, you came here to tell a group of women that sexism doesn't exist so WE SHOULD JUST SHUT UP ABOUT IT.

Fuck you. That's American for Cheers.

Cheers (Incidentally, you have almost 8,000 posts on an erotic literature forum. Your time being too valuable may not be quite the crushing dismissal you were aiming for there...)

Ad homenim attacks because you have nothing of value to say, implying that she's not allowed to have a valid opinion because she has posted on an online forum an average of 4 posts a day.

OH NO! FOUR POSTS A DAY?! THAT TAKES HOURS!!! HOW DO YOU EVER MANAGE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE EVER?!

And this is coming from a guy that made 4-5 posts IN A ROW on ONE thread.

Yeah, that's not hypocritical or anything.

Here's to more eye rolling.