Being a woman in geek culture

[Keroin]

Ad homenim attacks because you have nothing of value to say, implying that she's not allowed to have a valid opinion because she has posted on an online forum an average of 4 posts a day.

Thanks, Satin. Yes, that was the point where I decided to disengage from this person completely. (See also: point, what is the).

 

[Keroin]

Not a complete list of motivations, but I'd start with arrogance with intimidation and work the way down to a justification that ends up doing the same thing, but thinks of itself as a somewhat benign authority that becomes affronted at the lack of respect and gratitude that is given back after such a gift of guidance is granted.

Some people aren't aware of what or why they're doing it, and some are.

An inability to recognize personal boundaries or social boundaries usually indicates someone who had their boundaries obliterated themselves and now they like to do it to other folks to make it all come out even.

'course some people are just (insert non-gender-defined icky word here) and don't really require that much analysis.

Excellent summary, especially the part in bold.

 

[SilverbackUK]

You obviously have no idea how racism or sexism works. I'm guessing you're probably a straight white man and have NEVER faced long term discrimination, oppression and bigotry -ever in your life-. If you had, you'd be able to empathize. Since you cannot, let me simplify this for you again: Check your fucking privilege.

Yawn.

Yes, I remember clearly how happy I was when I got to choose to be a straight white man.

Sorry, I'm happy enough to own my own personal shit, I'm not nearly so willing to pick up whatever tonnage of it you feel like assigning to me either due to inability of basic comprehension or on behalf of my entire gender.

To my unwanted advice score, please add "Grow the Hell up!"

I'm actually the evil antagonist of your make believe story about how sexism doesn't exist. Don't worry, I won't monologue once I trap you in my underground volcano lair. I don't waste time on shit like that.

Translation: Sexism doesn't exist, so you don't get to whine about it. And I'm not willing to listen to your facts and logic and proof in order to get my mind changed. *puts fingers in ears* I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LAAAAA!!!

You're not "questioning" anything. You're downright TELLING US that sexism doesn't exist and you're not willing to get your mind changed. You didn't come here to learn, you came here to tell a group of women that sexism doesn't exist so WE SHOULD JUST SHUT UP ABOUT IT.

Fuck you. That's American for Cheers.

Apparently I am the worst denier of sexism ever:

Making Shit Up about what other people have said or meant, not about the basic problems, which we all know exist.

QED.

But let's not start clouding the issue with facts, eh? You just keep on slinging that poop and some of it'll stick eventually...

Cheers

 

[Keroin]

In other geek related news...

I have decided to go to the World Fantasy Con in Washington, DC, next October -- yay! And two of my Worldcon buddies are going to try to get me on a panel. One is a cop and one is a Federal agent. They (hopefully "we") will be discussing combat/fighting in real life and how that translates to fiction. I would be bringing my martial arts and stunt fighting knowledge to the table, with a focus on fight choreography. Exciting!

So, I'm going to spend the next year researching and polishing up the knowledge I already possess. I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel some small pressure to represent my gender well, lol.

Also, it will be awesome PR for the books. So, digits firmly crossed!

 

[Recidiva]

In other geek related news...

I have decided to go to the World Fantasy Con in Washington, DC, next October -- yay! And two of my Worldcon buddies are going to try to get me on a panel. One is a cop and one is a Federal agent. They (hopefully "we") will be discussing combat/fighting in real life and how that translates to fiction. I would be bringing my martial arts and stunt fighting knowledge to the table, with a focus on fight choreography. Exciting!

So, I'm going to spend the next year researching and polishing up the knowledge I already possess. I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel some small pressure to represent my gender well, lol.

Also, it will be awesome PR for the books. So, digits firmly crossed!

Oh so cool! That sounds wonderful!

 

[Keroin]

Oh so cool! That sounds wonderful!

Thanks! I really hope it happens!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Run that by me again.. 20 years in a male dominated industry and getting to a point where employers go the extra mile to retain you is indicative of poor prospects?

No. That part is indicative of her ability. The part that's indicative of "poor prospects" is the bit where she could not get hired despite that proven ability. If you can't get your foot in the door because recruiters put less emphasis on your achievements than on their mental picture of what an IT professional looks like, being good enough to inspire employer loyalty is worthless.

FWIW, I'm 56, with 30+ years in IT. I effectively retired a couple of years back because it wasn't worth the arseache of competing against younger and better qualified people for the work available.

For clarity: my partner is near 50 now. The last time she successfully applied for an IT job, she was 43 - or maybe 44, I remember the year but not the month. We had to move cities about a year later for family reasons, and she was never able to get back into the industry.

So you got about a decade longer in the industry than she did. Retiring at 45 just isn't viable for most of us; unless you're being paid very well indeed, it's not what I'd consider "good prospects".

Speaking of PMSU...

No one has said they are exclusive. Because they obviously aren't.

To me it was strongly implied by the way in which you presented them. You give the impression that nerd = affluent lifestyle, and while that might be true for many, I know a lot of serious nerds who are struggling to get by. You can be able to recite the whole Dead Parrot sketch in fluent Klingon, and still be stuck in a dead-end retail job that barely pays the rent - or unable to work at all, due to disability.

Death threats, rape threats and inciting harrassment are not acceptable. But again, no one is saying they are.

(Assuming this is intended as "no one here", BTW.) No, you didn't say that they were acceptable. But you did say that "someone being mean to geeks is pretty much a first world problem"; to me that seems like trivialising these things, which isn't much better than condoning IMHO.

Moral relativism be damned, there is need for a sense of proportion when faced with differing degrees of unacceptable behavior.

Yes and no. Even when the behaviour itself seems minor, it can signify a mindset that's coupled to much bigger problems - or foster one. For instance - most of the guys who make rape jokes and blame victims are not rapists themselves, but for the guys who are potential rapists, hearing their peers making light of rape significantly increases their own willingness to commit it.

Not every snowflake is an avalanche. It's... overly optimistic... to expect everyone to treat everything as a major issue.

The flipside to this is that it's a common tactic to deal with genuine avalanches by deconstructing them into individual snowflakes that are small enough to be handwaved away one by one - the Sorites paradox in reverse.

 

[SilverbackUK]

The flipside to this is that it's a common tactic to deal with genuine avalanches by deconstructing them into individual snowflakes that are small enough to be handwaved away one by one - the Sorites paradox in reverse.

Genuine 'tons of snow on the rampage' avalanches? I'm not sure that Daisybombs count as deconstructing, and it's pretty hard on the individual snowflakes...

For the rest, I probably agree more than I disagree... There are points I could argue - 6 years ago puts us into 2007/8 when IT departments were pretty much daisybombing their own staff, never mind out of town newcomers, some things should be seen as trivial because they are trivial - but it would almost be arguing for the sake of argument to get into it with you.

Which I do try to avoid... Albeit with variable degrees of success!

Cheers

 

[satindesire]

Yawn.

Yes, I remember clearly how happy I was when I got to choose to be a straight white man.

Sorry, I'm happy enough to own my own personal shit, I'm not nearly so willing to pick up whatever tonnage of it you feel like assigning to me either due to inability of basic comprehension or on behalf of my entire gender.

To my unwanted advice score, please add "Grow the Hell up!"

Yeah, I knew it.

Hey, guess what? Being a straight white man is the easiest person in the world to be.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...-experienced-discrimination-in-the-workplace/
http://feminspire.com/your-catcalls-are-not-a-compliment-ever-2/
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/ceo-to-gamer-complaining-about-rape-threats-hes-tire-996706957

I bet you won't click a single link and read a single word, because again...you didn't come here to learn, you came here to tell us to shut the fuck up.

Yeah, you're part of the problem of why sexism is such a rampant problem, but WE should grow up.

How about you harden the fuck up and learn how to be a person with ears connected to their heart?

No?

Okay, I tried.

By the way, here's one more link for you, but since you aren't going to click it, I'm going to make it easy for you and copy the shit down.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

I’ve been thinking of a way to explain to straight white men how life works for them, without invoking the dreaded word “privilege,” to which they react like vampires being fed a garlic tart at high noon. It’s not that the word “privilege” is incorrect, it’s that it’s not their word. When confronted with “privilege,” they fiddle with the word itself, and haul out the dictionaries and find every possible way to talk about the word but not any of the things the word signifies.

So, the challenge: how to get across the ideas bound up in the word “privilege,” in a way that your average straight white man will get, without freaking out about it?

Being a white guy who likes women, here’s how I would do it:

Dudes. Imagine life here in the US — or indeed, pretty much anywhere in the Western world — is a massive role playing game, like World of Warcraft except appallingly mundane, where most quests involve the acquisition of money, cell phones and donuts, although not always at the same time. Let’s call it The Real World. You have installed The Real World on your computer and are about to start playing, but first you go to the settings tab to bind your keys, fiddle with your defaults, and choose the difficulty setting for the game. Got it?

Okay: In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is.

This means that the default behaviors for almost all the non-player characters in the game are easier on you than they would be otherwise. The default barriers for completions of quests are lower. Your leveling-up thresholds come more quickly. You automatically gain entry to some parts of the map that others have to work for. The game is easier to play, automatically, and when you need help, by default it’s easier to get.

Now, once you’ve selected the “Straight White Male” difficulty setting, you still have to create a character, and how many points you get to start — and how they are apportioned — will make a difference. Initially the computer will tell you how many points you get and how they are divided up. If you start with 25 points, and your dump stat is wealth, well, then you may be kind of screwed. If you start with 250 points and your dump stat is charisma, well, then you’re probably fine. Be aware the computer makes it difficult to start with more than 30 points; people on higher difficulty settings generally start with even fewer than that.

As the game progresses, your goal is to gain points, apportion them wisely, and level up. If you start with fewer points and fewer of them in critical stat categories, or choose poorly regarding the skills you decide to level up on, then the game will still be difficult for you. But because you’re playing on the “Straight White Male” setting, gaining points and leveling up will still by default be easier, all other things being equal, than for another player using a higher difficulty setting.

Likewise, it’s certainly possible someone playing at a higher difficulty setting is progressing more quickly than you are, because they had more points initially given to them by the computer and/or their highest stats are wealth, intelligence and constitution and/or simply because they play the game better than you do. It doesn’t change the fact you are still playing on the lowest difficulty setting.

You can lose playing on the lowest difficulty setting. The lowest difficulty setting is still the easiest setting to win on. The player who plays on the “Gay Minority Female” setting? Hardcore.

And maybe at this point you say, hey, I like a challenge, I want to change my difficulty setting! Well, here’s the thing: In The Real World, you don’t unlock any rewards or receive any benefit for playing on higher difficulty settings. The game is just harder, and potentially a lot less fun. And you say, okay, but what if I want to replay the game later on a higher difficulty setting, just to see what it’s like? Well, here’s the other thing about The Real World: You only get to play it once. So why make it more difficult than it has to be? Your goal is to win the game, not make it difficult.

Oh, and one other thing. Remember when I said that you could choose your difficulty setting in The Real World? Well, I lied. In fact, the computer chooses the difficulty setting for you. You don’t get a choice; you just get what gets given to you at the start of the game, and then you have to deal with it.

So that’s “Straight White Male” for you in The Real World (and also, in the real world): The lowest difficulty setting there is. All things being equal, and even when they are not, if the computer — or life — assigns you the “Straight White Male” difficulty setting, then brother, you’ve caught a break.

Apparently I am the worst denier of sexism ever:

See above.

But let's not start clouding the issue with facts, eh? You just keep on slinging that poop and some of it'll stick eventually...

Cheers

There's plenty of facts here, sweetie pie, but Bless Your Heart, you just can't seem to manage that whole learning bit! Also, you attacked Keroin for having posted 4 times a day...you don't get to whine about people throwing shit. Hypocrite.

 

[satindesire]

Here's some more links you won't click with those facts you claim to want but aren't actually interested in:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/22/2510031/rape-culture-at-work/

http://charlesclymer.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-are-we-so-ashamed-of-our-women.html

http://maxatax.kinja.com/sex-sells-deal-with-it-1302624839

http://feminspire.com/feminism-its-good-for-men-too/

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2012/11/women-video-game-industry-twitter-1reasonwhy

 

[Keroin]

I’ve been thinking of a way to explain to straight white men how life works for them, without invoking the dreaded word “privilege,” to which they react like vampires being fed a garlic tart at high noon. It’s not that the word “privilege” is incorrect, it’s that it’s not their word. When confronted with “privilege,” they fiddle with the word itself, and haul out the dictionaries and find every possible way to talk about the word but not any of the things the word signifies.

So, the challenge: how to get across the ideas bound up in the word “privilege,” in a way that your average straight white man will get, without freaking out about it?

Scalzi’s point about the word privilege is so dead on. It’s not just applicable to men, either. I think we all instinctively recoil when the word is applied to us, especially if our lives have not been “easy”. We can point to all the people who have it better than us but we resist looking at how easy we have it compared to others.

I used to be one of those people who would say of people in poor countries “Why don’t they quit complaining and whining and just _________ (insert ridiculously simple solution to complex problem)?” I was a diehard believer in the pull-yourself-up-by-your-boot-straps philosophy. After all, *I* never whined about *my* problems, I just faced them head on! If you had suggested I was privileged I would have laughed and/or been offended.

Then I went and lived among those poor people in some of those poor countries. I experienced the thousands of obstacles, big and small, those people face every day. Even with my “wealth”, education, and experience, I couldn’t push through many of those obstacles. And let’s not even start on the psychology of growing up in a culture of hopelessness. Suddenly I saw how privileged I had been all along, how naïve, how arrogant and ignorant. I felt shame.

It’s very easy to look at a single incident of sexism in the geek world and wonder why the woman has made such a big deal about it or why she did not step up and deal with the man more assertively. All he did was ask her to prove that she is a “real” DC Comics fan but didn’t ask the same of her male companions. pfft, big deal! Very easy to do that if you have not lived her life, if you don’t know (or care to learn about) the daily bombardment of sexism she might have dealt with since birth. We say “Why doesn’t she just leave him?” in cases of domestic abuse, and ignore the critical psychology and years of back story behind the answer to that question.

And it’s so much easier to talk and tell “You should do this” instead of listen and ask “How can I help?”

This isn’t finger pointing. I’ve been there. I’ve been that person. Sometimes I still am.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It’s very easy to look at a single incident of sexism in the geek world and wonder why the woman has made such a big deal about it or why she did not step up and deal with the man more assertively. All he did was ask her to prove that she is a “real” DC Comics fan but didn’t ask the same of her male companions. pfft, big deal! Very easy to do that if you have not lived her life, if you don’t know (or care to learn about) the daily bombardment of sexism she might have dealt with since birth.

Useful term here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression

 

[satindesire]

The deal with microaggression and people that don't understand it was explained by a really cool person and it really stuck with me.

Imagine that for no rational reason that you can control, all of a sudden every day several times a day, random people start poking you with a very sharp stick. The people that poke you are a certain type of person, usually.

Depending upon how patient and forgiving you are it may take you hours, even maybe a few days to start getting reeeeaaaaally tired of that shit.

After a few weeks, every time it happens to you, it makes you really angry.

After a few months, you risk blowing your shit at every person that does it to you. And you start feeling really wary when that certain type of person comes around you, because you know there's a good chance that person could poke you.

To the individual who just passes through your life after weeks/months/years of experiencing these pokes, if they witness ONE of them, and witness you completely losing your shit at the person that poked you, it can look like a massive overreaction to the poke. And if you complain that that certain type of people pokes you, it can look like you're unfairly blaming ALL of those people for getting poked. But they haven't had your experience of getting poked over and over and over again. And they can easily sit back with arrogance and say "Well some people are just assholes and poke other people. You should stop complaining about it and anyway, it just looks like you hate all (type of person)."

But then, they're the asshole for saying it.

 

[Keroin]

Useful term here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression

That is a useful term.

The deal with microaggression and people that don't understand it was explained by a really cool person and it really stuck with me.

Imagine that for no rational reason that you can control, all of a sudden every day several times a day, random people start poking you with a very sharp stick. The people that poke you are a certain type of person, usually.

Depending upon how patient and forgiving you are it may take you hours, even maybe a few days to start getting reeeeaaaaally tired of that shit.

After a few weeks, every time it happens to you, it makes you really angry.

After a few months, you risk blowing your shit at every person that does it to you. And you start feeling really wary when that certain type of person comes around you, because you know there's a good chance that person could poke you.

To the individual who just passes through your life after weeks/months/years of experiencing these pokes, if they witness ONE of them, and witness you completely losing your shit at the person that poked you, it can look like a massive overreaction to the poke. And if you complain that that certain type of people pokes you, it can look like you're unfairly blaming ALL of those people for getting poked. But they haven't had your experience of getting poked over and over and over again. And they can easily sit back with arrogance and say "Well some people are just assholes and poke other people. You should stop complaining about it and anyway, it just looks like you hate all (type of person)."

But then, they're the asshole for saying it.

And that is a very good simplified explanation of people's reaction to microagression.

 

[SilverbackUK]

See above.

You will do this, you won't do that, obviously, of course...

Wow, you're really nailing it with the insight powers today!

And look! Other people on the internet agree with you! You must be right!

There's plenty of facts here, sweetie pie, but Bless Your Heart, you just can't seem to manage that whole learning bit! Also, you attacked Keroin for having posted 4 times a day...you don't get to whine about people throwing shit. Hypocrite.

Speaking of micro-aggression...

I'm a compulsive counter-puncher... If someone wants to snarkily dismiss someone because of how valuable their time is, I reckon how they spend their time is fair game for cross examination. YMMV.

Hypocrite?

Pfuii...

Keep slinging it... If you say something often enough and loud enough, people will take you seriously.

Cheers

 

[SilverbackUK]

Here's some more links you won't click with those facts you claim to want but aren't actually interested in:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/22/2510031/rape-culture-at-work/

http://charlesclymer.blogspot.com/2013/02/why-are-we-so-ashamed-of-our-women.html

http://maxatax.kinja.com/sex-sells-deal-with-it-1302624839

http://feminspire.com/feminism-its-good-for-men-too/

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2012/11/women-video-game-industry-twitter-1reasonwhy

Typing in "Flat Earth Society" gets you 447,000 hits in Google...

Cheers

 

[satindesire]

You will do this, you won't do that, obviously, of course...

Wow, you're really nailing it with the insight powers today!

And look! Other people on the internet agree with you! You must be right!

Out of the two of us, which is the most right in this thread?

Oh wait that's me. Thank you, yes, I think the general consensus is that if you come into a thread about a fact and say that scientifically proven fact isn't real, that makes you what?

That's right, it makes you wrong.

Speaking of micro-aggression...

Oh no, it's the Oppression Olympics! Now suddenly straight white men win the gold medal in who gets poked the most often.

I'm a compulsive counter-puncher... If someone wants to snarkily dismiss someone because of how valuable their time is, I reckon how they spend their time is fair game for cross examination. YMMV.

How she spends her time here is how YOU have been spending your time here. You're basically throwing yourself under the bus and then pointing the finger at her like she's the one with tire tracks on her face.

So yeah, you're a fucking hypocrite. Hypocrite.

Hypocrite?

Pfuii...

Keep slinging it... If you say something often enough and loud enough, people will take you seriously.

Cheers

Oh honey, if you really think your opinion of me is valuable, you're more full of shit than we all estimated.

Once you came here and decided that the mountain of evidence of the historical and institutionalized incidence of women's oppression simply didn't exist because you said so, everyone knew to discount everything you said as fucktardery.

BOOP THANK YOU BOO BOO.

Typing in "Flat Earth Society" gets you 447,000 hits in Google...

Cheers

Translation: Sexism doesn't exist, so SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT ALREADY! I can't be a misogynist if you won't be quiet about it!!!

Also: You didn't click anything or read it did you? How am I not surprised.

Whoops, time to break out that perpetual motion eye rolling machine!!

 

[SilverbackUK]

Out of the two of us, which is the most right in this thread?

Oh wait that's me.

Prosecutor, judge and jury? Now that's serious multi-tasking.

It's kind of a pity that not once, for all your strident honking about it, have I denied that sexism exists, or said that anyone 'should' ignore it.

I do think that anyone being poked - to pursue the analogy -' has a choice to either ignore it or to tackle it right there and then instead of bottling it up to a point where they start baying at the moon and biting strangers in the throat...

Personally, I'd say tackle it. But everyone gets to decide for themselves.

I'd also say it's pretty clear which option you're going with. But such is life. And if you're happy with your head that far up your own nether regions, I'm certainly not going to be the one to try removing it.

One day, petulant childishness and truly astonishing degrees of entitlement will come back into fashion... And you'll be ready!

Cheers

 

[Keroin]

How she spends her time here is how YOU have been spending your time here. You're basically throwing yourself under the bus and then pointing the finger at her like she's the one with tire tracks on her face.

Satin, you're a champion but, really, I'm fine. This person is feeling attacked and behaving defensively. He will not listen to anything--logical or otherwise--written by those he feels are attacking him. I don't expect that will change. Hence why I've given up interacting with him.

However, for anyone else reading this thread who does not know me, let me clarify.

#1 Yes, I have a lot of posts on Lit. There have been some fantastic conversations on the BDSM forum over the years and I've enjoyed being part of them. For the most part, people here are respectful and I've learned a lot about various issues by engaging with other posters. Sometimes this involves dealing with a few bad apples but overall it's worth it.

#2 The majority of my posts on Lit were made when I lived on a very small island--Aitutaki, Cook Islands. I was there for two years and was very isolated from the outside world (we didn't even have a library). I worked 24/7 as a small resort manager and thus didn't even have the opportunity to spend much time with the the island's tiny population. (Though I did make some amazing friends, even so). Lit became a haven to me, a place where I could find a conversation day or night, and I took good advantage of that. Since returning to "civilization" and beginning work on my novel series, my posts have dropped off significantly and unless there is a thread (like this one) that really speaks to me, I probably post about 0-6 times per week now.

#3 My time is valuable. While I am quite happy to spend it engaging in thoughtful discussions (such as this one) or even posting silly things that make me (and hopefully others) smile, I no longer waste it arguing with people I realize are not interested in learning or in considering any views but their own. I have no time for those without empathy. I have no time for bullies or trolls. And when it comes to sexism, I have no time for those who expect me to educate them when there is a plethora of factual information just a mouse click away.

#4 I have friends here. Yes, a notion I would have scoffed at just a few years ago but it's true. Some of the folks I've conversed with on Lit have become my real life friends that I talk to regularly outside of this forum. Amazing what opening your mind a little will get you! Coming to Lit, however frequently or infrequently, to talk to my friends (current or future) is always a valuable use of my time.

So, for those of you lurking out there and perhaps thinking that this crazy woman ranting on a "porn forum" is talking out of both sides of her mouth, there you go. Also, stop lurking and join in! If you treat the people here with a modicum of respect, you will enjoy the same in return and you may just make some very cool real life friends.

And now, time to write! Have a wonderful day Litsers. And, Satin, it's all good.

 

[satindesire]

Prosecutor, judge and jury? Now that's serious multi-tasking.

It's kind of a pity that not once, for all your strident honking about it, have I denied that sexism exists, or said that anyone 'should' ignore it.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49339205&postcount=794
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49318997&postcount=788
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49339497&postcount=795
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49342001&postcount=797


These are the posts where you clearly and very obviously have Denied that historical and institutionalized sexism against women wasn't actually sexism, but that we have an "even playing field", "everyone has to prove themselves" and that "some guys are just dicks to everyone".

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49577173&postcount=881
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49604025&postcount=901

Here are the posts where you clearly and very obviously state that you DISAGREE that sexism is real.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49587333&postcount=886
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49604025&postcount=901

Here are the posts where you clearly and very obviously state that we are MAKING SHIT UP, therefore "SEXISM ISN'T REAL!" and where you clearly and obviously state that the experiences that I have had with sexism were not "the only point of view or the overwhelming one", therefore "SEXISM ISN'T REAL!"

It is also the post where you state "Regardless of gender, someone being mean to geeks is pretty much a first world problem!" and that means "SEXISM ISN'T REAL AND EVEN IF IT IS, YOU LIVE IN AMERICA AND SHOULDN'T WHINE ABOUT IT!"

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=49604997&postcount=902

This is the post where you clearly and obviously state that individual experiences, even when they are overwhelmingly shared by a single gender, cannot be sexism. "Not every snowflake is an avalanche. It's... overly optimistic... to expect everyone to treat everything as a major issue." therefore SEXISM ISN'T REAL!!!

Would you like to try that again, boo boo, because your own words prove just how much you don't think sexism exists and how we're whining over "first world problems" and should SHUT UP ABOUT IT because there's no way the overwhelmingly shared experiences of every single woman in this thread and all over the world could possibly be sexism.

At this point, you are so overly invested in your ignorance that even IF we did manage to change your mind (which we can't since SEXISM DOESN'T EXIST!) you can't admit it because you're too afraid to lose face. You'll walk away from this thread without owning your ignorance and mistakes. See, I can be the judge, jury executioner AND I can see the future. Aren't I fucking amazing?!

I do think that anyone being poked - to pursue the analogy -' has a choice to either ignore it or to tackle it right there and then instead of bottling it up to a point where they start baying at the moon and biting strangers in the throat...

Personally, I'd say tackle it. But everyone gets to decide for themselves.

No, actually, we DON'T get to decide for ourselves, according to every post you've posted. YOU get to decide FOR US how we should think and act. Because we don't know what the fuck we're talking about. SINCE SEXISM DOESN'T EXIST after all.

I'd also say it's pretty clear which option you're going with. But such is life. And if you're happy with your head that far up your own nether regions, I'm certainly not going to be the one to try removing it.

One day, petulant childishness and truly astonishing degrees of entitlement will come back into fashion... And you'll be ready!

Cheers

I absolutely love how I'm tackling the problem head on by confronting you with your own blind privilege and ignorance like you claim you'd want me to, yet you don't seem to like the fact that I'm tackling YOU.

I don't have to be nice to you. That's the beauty of equality. If you can come here and adamantly and constantly deny that the entire BREADTH of shared experiences of an entire gender SIMPLY AREN'T REAL...what on EARTH gives you the idea that I have to be dignified and kind to you? You came here without the ability to listen or learn, you came here to TELL US what to think. I don't have to be anything BUT a cunt to a person like you.

Yeah, the only thing I'm entitled to is the same shit you're entitled to. But here's the sad part, sexism actually does exist and permeates our entire planet but you won't see it or admit it. I don't and never will have the same opportunities as you. I don't and never will get treated as well as you do. And denying that sexism exists IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. We cannot solve sexism if we're wasting our time trying to convince ignorant boys like yourself that sexism is real and a real problem.

Satin, you're a champion but, really, I'm fine. This person is feeling attacked and behaving defensively. He will not listen to anything--logical or otherwise--written by those he feels are attacking him. I don't expect that will change. Hence why I've given up interacting with him.

You're my -friend- Peach. I won't let some ignorant little stain like this talk shit about you RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and not say something about it. I'm not just doing that for you, I'd do it for anyone that I love.

https://fetlife.com/groups/5185/group_posts/4480433

An example of more people that believe that bigotry doesn't exist?

He's in Italics, I'm in normal text.

So... you appear to be a middle-class white girl in Oklahoma. What experience do you have being a minority

I'm Native American, female, poverty stricken and pansexual. That makes me a minority on ALL counts, cowboy.

How often do the people who see you stop on the street, point and stare? That's a daily occurrence here.

How many times have you had people whip out their cell phones to take pictures of you because you're a minority? I've lost track.

Every time I went out with my ex girlfriend in public where we held hands, kissed each other or did anything else to display any outward signs that we were a couple, people pointed, stared, made nasty comments, threatened us, and took pictures of us without our permission. Try again cowboy, you're 0-2.

I don't know the stats here, but for the last city I lived in, I was a minority of about 0.5%. Oh... that minority included whites, blacks, hispanics... well... anyone who wasn't Chinese. Walking home on any given day, I would encounter 2 or 3 people who would stop dead in their tracks, point at me, and stare. How often do people point and stare at you?

It's common for small children to hide behind their mothers (or grandmothers) when they see the "lao wai". How often do children run away from you because of how you look?

I think, in America, "newly-immigrated Samoans" might be in a similar situation--except... in America, nobody stops and stares when you look "foreign", and children don't run away when your eyes aren't the right shape.

Oh LOOK EVERYONE! It's the OPPRESSION OLYMPICS where straight white men suddenly win gold medals because he says so!

Your personal experiences are a drop in the bucket for the thousands of years of murder, rape, assault, and oppression that women and minorities of all kinds have faced. The historical and institutionalized racism, sexism, transphobia and homophobia that affects millions around the world will NEVER touch you. 0-3 Bub.

Please cite one instance where a word has killed a person. Or raped a person. Or caused any physical harm to a person.

The Holy Bible, considered THE word, is "personally" responsible for the Crusades, the oppression of women for thousands of years and the justification for the murder of transfolks and gays across the planet. People give power to words because words are powerful. Words are responsible for our culture and society, words are responsible for our science, mathematics, and especially our religious beliefs. Don't tell me that words have no power, because you're blatantly ignoring how language has shaped our entire culture since people first spoke hundreds of thousands of years ago. Humanity would be NOTHING without the power of language and words. 0-4 Cowboy.

No.

That has nothing to do with words. That has to do with prejudice, bigotry, and fear.

Words are the symptom. You don't cure cancer with aspirin.

See above: Language is powerful because language shapes our culture, society, beliefs, technology, medicine and our future. We wouldn't be wearing clothes without language, let alone curing cancer. Prejudice, bigotry and fear is spread, propagated and caused by language and words. It can be defeated with words, but only as long as people do not deny the evidence of the power of words. 0-5.

Yep. That's what I said.

And you're one of the people giving those words power--and thereby giving your enemies power.

Wrong. YOU are one of the people who are giving those words the most power, because you deny that the words do anything to influence people. You deny that the words have meaning. You deny that language can change minds and hurt people. My enemies will have power as long as people like you stand in my way. But I refuse to let you stand in my way. I will call you and anyone like you out on your oppressive bigoted bullshit in a second and I'm not afraid to do it anytime, anyplace. It's because of courageous social justice seekers like myself that motivate social change. People like me got the vote for women. People like me got gay marriage, and trans rights. 0-6

I am educated on the power of words.

You have systematically denied that words have power the entire time, now you admit words have power? You need to decide what you believe, sparky.

And I love how you prove my point for me. You can call me anything you like. Use any word you want. I won't be offended. The words have no power. You, however, appear to be offended by quite a few words. So... you are giving me all sorts of power over you. I, on the other hand, am giving you zero power over me.

I have no power over you because I am a minority that our prevailing culture will give no power to because men much like yourself decided a long time ago that you wanted it all for yourself --AND MADE UP SOME WORDS-- to convince people that they could have power, too, if they oppressed us. I'll never have power over you because I am a poor pansexual Native American woman. The only other person that will have power over you is another straight white man with more money than you. The only power I have that is bigger and better than anything you could ever hope to have is the deeper level of social consciousness and bravery that I have to speak up against injustice, using facts and rationality. You have the power of privilege and ignorance, and in the future, your kind will breed out and our grandchildren will laugh about the time when people like you thought that it was okay to say "Nigger". 0-7

Come on over to China. Stand in the middle of street and scream "nigga!" At most, people will wonder what you're referring to. ("nigga" means "that").

Language has power when you understand it. I'm sure there are racial and sexual slurs in Chinese that have just as much power as slurs in English. Being blatantly obtuse isn't winning you any intellect points, cowboy.

I call my best friend "bitch" as a term of endearment. Same with many other friends and family members. Most of the gay men I know (20 years in theatre--that's a lot of gay men) laughingly refer to themselves as "fags", and they call their lesbian friends "dykes". Seriously... in 25 years, I can't think of a single homosexual I've met who would be offended by being called a fag or dyke.

Your friends do not equal every gay person in the world. And if you shouted "Dyke" at me, I would damn sure not only be offended but I would also make sure you knew it, and I would draw as much negative attention on you as I could to show the rest of the world what a homophobic POS you were. By the way: There's a difference between taking back a slur from the people that used it to oppress. Only gays are allowed to use "Dyke" and "Fag". Only black people are allowed to use "Nigger". Only women are allowed to use "Slut". And if you can't understand WHY, I can only say this: It's like asking "Why isn't there a "Straight Pride" month or a White History month?" 0-8

This, of course, is ignoring the fact that all of these words are entirely constrained withing US culture. Despite what some people might think, America is not representative of the world. A co-worker (British) recounted a funny story about talking with an Aussie in Beijing this spring. The Aussie asked if he could "pinch a fag". The Americans were confused. The Brit said "Sure"--and handed the Aussie a cigarette.

You deny words have meaning and power and then give multiple examples of how they do. Do you not recognize the intense amount of stupidity that shows? The word being used AS A SLUR has power because language used in CONTEXT has meaning. You claim that you're educated about the power of words but you display literally none of that education here.

I would not be getting words of praise from other people for standing up to tell you how wrong you were if I was the one who desperately needed educating. 0-9

Your insistence on being offended does not define my life. It does not define my culture. It does not define my language. It does not define reality.

Your insistence on being offended is, quite simply, your problem.

The rest of the world--seven billion and rising--couldn't care less.

Because you are not a minority in any sense of the word, you have never faced any sort of long-term life-altering oppression. Unfortunately, forms of oppression and bigotry defines your life, culture, language and reality regardless of how hard you shut your eyes and ears to it. You've been fortunate enough to escape it, but instead of working to change it, you deny that it's a problem. You claim to be educated to the power of words but show that you don't understand how much words have changed the climate of humankind at all. You do nothing with your so-called education other than continue the cycle of denial and bigotry. The seven billion people that you claim doesn't care about the power of words? Well you guess what cowboy? 0-10 you lose again because social change is coming regardless of how badly it frightens you that you'll lose your ability to be a bigoted asshole in safety without fear of punishment for it.

Anything else, Captain Oblivious?

 

[KoPilot]

Hi, my name is SilverbackUK, and I like to invite myself into people's homes, give them unwanted decorating advice, eat their food, piss in their sink, and then find myself getting surprised and defensive when they tell me I'm being fucking rude.

Misandry!!

 

[KoPilot]

Oh and, once again, I must point out the racism inherent in the insistence on the part of white men that Real Problems only exist in predominantly brown, developing regions. Not to mention that it's an easy way of making it look like you care while simultaneously absconding all and any responsibility for the shit that goes on in your own backyard and elsewhere.

Please, tell us more about what's going on in the world of sexism elsewhere. I mean really. And don't go into the Middle East, that's low-hanging fruit for us here in the West. And besides, as such an educated, privileged person of a first world nation, you should have all the time to properly educate yourself on the details of that which you so righteously spew, right?

 

[satindesire]

Oh and, once again, I must point out the racism inherent in the insistence on the part of white men that Real Problems only exist in predominantly brown, developing regions. Not to mention that it's an easy way of making it look like you care while simultaneously absconding all and any responsibility for the shit that goes on in your own backyard and elsewhere.

Please, tell us more about what's going on in the world of sexism elsewhere. I mean really. And don't go into the Middle East, that's low-hanging fruit for us here in the West. And besides, as such an educated, privileged person of a first world nation, you should have all the time to properly educate yourself on the details of that which you so righteously spew, right?

There's an element of white Imperialism and racism that I feel implied in every "Sexism is only a problem in the middle east" claim that makes me really fucking uncomfortable.

It's not white people's responsibility to save brown women from teh savage brown men.

 

[KoPilot]

There's an element of white Imperialism and racism that I feel implied in every "Sexism is only a problem in the middle east" claim that makes me really fucking uncomfortable.

It's not white people's responsibility to save brown women from teh savage brown men.

It's caricatures all the way down for these people.

God forbid you complicate things by telling them that Rwanda has the highest number of women in parliament than any other country on Earth. Or that Japanese rape laws are some of the more abhorrent of the industrialized nations. Or that a huge number of trafficked sex slaves are from Eastern Europe and all look very white.

"Stop whining white women, because brown women" is the most deluded perspective you could possibly have... unless you're a brown woman and actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[Keroin]

This post by writer Robert J Bennett is timely.

On women, and empathy, and con games