Being a woman in geek culture

[KoPilot]

Yeah, I'm sure all those people who died in various plagues would echo your assessment that "humanity did quite well" without a clean water supply.

And likely the same goes for all those women throughout history who were bought an sold as property would agree with Lex's completely non-sarcastic observation.

But thank you for unintentionally proving my point.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Yeah, I'm sure all those people who died in various plagues would echo your assessment that "humanity did quite well" without a clean water supply.

The problem is a large portion of humanity still lacks a clean water supply, along with lacking many other necessities, health care being one of the many. In many cases the unmet needs are caused by endless wars. In many other cases it's nothing more than the haves not willing to part with what they have, what they do have, they've gotten by rigging the system in their favor.

None of this can be blamed on the better than one half the population who lack any power to change it. Maybe we wouldn't do any better but we surely couldn't do any worse with both hands tied behind our backs.

For many of us life is better than it was in the past but for many it isn't. The history of humanity is man's inhumanity. I don't mean to offend you but it is just that, MAN's, inhumanity. There is absolutely no way you can look at the past or present and conclude that any of it is Woman's inhumanity.

 

[Netzach]

I love when people romanticize how great AND how shitty the past was and why or why not.

Lex forgets how fantastic being beaten for masturbating FILLED with self-loathing for being sexual, period, and having to sneak away to some poor syphillis ridden house of prostitution for sex more passionate than anything at home must have been. Or how great it was to be down a mine pit, as if women did nothing to change labor anywhere over the whole world And I'm sure he subscribes to a "thank us for killing your Mammoth" worldview that ignores female coal-porters, and factory workers and soldiers throughout history doing the same work WHILE wiping asses.

And Dyslexicea gives British women in India, German women in Nazi Germany and white women pretty much everywhere a free pass because colonialism and destruction wasn't their idea. I'm not sold. If you're benefitting from the system, you don't get to act like it's crushing you just the same. You're saying to the person who's foot has been cut off that your shoe pinches so you're like long lost twins.

No, we weren't doing "fine" and feminism that stops with thinking about street harassment and pink toys isn't making things "fine" either. And neither worldview relates to an accurate past that actually existed, which is infinitely more interesting than any fairytale shorthand and infinitely more complex.

I seriously extend the door of the tardis open to any guy who thinks that it was all better for him before bitches started making trouble. 742? 1644? 1900? HOWEVER I also extend the same door to locations other than a middle class white woman's house of genteel poverty to feminists who feel that no woman could possibly be held responsible for the conditions she'll experience. Mississippi Delta? Dominican Republic? Hyderabad?

 

[midwestyankee]

And likely the same goes for all those women throughout history who were bought an sold as property would agree with Lex's completely non-sarcastic observation.

But thank you for unintentionally proving my point.

I suppose I missed your irony, but then I'm a man and little can be expected of me, anyway, right?

 

[Dyslexicea]

I seriously extend the door of the tardis open to any guy who thinks that it was all better for him before bitches started making trouble. 742? 1644? 1900? HOWEVER I also extend the same door to locations other than a middle class white woman's house of genteel poverty to feminists who feel that no woman could possibly be held responsible for the conditions she'll experience. Mississippi Delta? Dominican Republic? Hyderabad?

It's easy for a white privileged woman to say isn't it. I just don't happen to have white privilege. I'll admit to having some economic privilege both as a child and now. What you're really saying is a house slave had great privilege because her condition was better than the other plantation slaves even though she had no choice in being so.

 

[BiBunny]

I suppose I missed your irony, but then I'm a man and little can be expected of me, anyway, right?

Yes. Sorry.

No, we weren't doing "fine" and feminism that stops with thinking about street harassment and pink toys isn't making things "fine" either.

Thank you for that.

 

[KoPilot]

Netz is right. It's infinitely more complicated than the "mammoth hunting" horseshit that Lex masturbates to every night. There are many cultures the world over where feminine wisdom and women's work was very seriously and intensely valued. Wars were fought and won at the behest of women. Relationships between societies and the land that they lived on (religious """woo""" for you insufferable anti-theists) were often navigated solely by women.

All the good and the awful always co-existed.

 

[Primalex]

Humanity did quite well without electricity or indoor plumbing too, but you'll never hear him complain about them.

Nobody here claimed that humanity would end without indoor plumbing, so there was no reason for me to say that humanity did quite well without indoor plumbing.

Out of curiosity: Are you unable or unwilling to comprehend what people write?

 

[Primalex]

Lex forgets how fantastic being beaten for masturbating FILLED with self-loathing for being sexual, period, and having to sneak away to some poor syphillis ridden house of prostitution for sex more passionate than anything at home must have been. Or how great it was to be down a mine pit, as if women did nothing to change labor anywhere over the whole world And I'm sure he subscribes to a "thank us for killing your Mammoth" worldview that ignores female coal-porters, and factory workers and soldiers throughout history doing the same work WHILE wiping asses.

I don't forget anything. But you are talking about the fate of individuals, I'm talking about humanity. There were always the individuals that had to wrestle with saber-tooth cats and other individuals that sent out other people to do that.

You are belittling the improvement of pig farming over the saber-tooth cat wrestling, because the pig farmer was exploited by the feudal landowner. This is unsound.

 

[Primalex]

For many of us life is better than it was in the past but for many it isn't. The history of humanity is man's inhumanity. I don't mean to offend you but it is just that, MAN's, inhumanity. There is absolutely no way you can look at the past or present and conclude that any of it is Woman's inhumanity.

There were over two dozens attempts to kill Hitler. Not a single attempt by a woman.

 

[Netzach]

It's easy for a white privileged woman to say isn't it. I just don't happen to have white privilege. I'll admit to having some economic privilege both as a child and now. What you're really saying is a house slave had great privilege because her condition was better than the other plantation slaves even though she had no choice in being so.

You're equating both with status of the woman who OWNED her.

I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to do that. If that's my white privilege showing, guess I'll have to interrogate that, but I'm not sure I can make that equation under any circumstances.

There are plenty of women responsible for plenty of oppression. As a class, yes, if you focus your lens to say "white western women" a lot of shit has been fucked by us and continues to be fucked by us. A lot of horrendous shit in the name of "Christian charity" for example, fervently advanced by white western women. I don't buy in that only a white western male is responsible for every single thing that goes wrong in the world, simply by virtue of being at the top of the pyramid, it's simply too convenient to say "well fuck, I have no agency anyway, so we're long lost BFF's everyone with a vagina! I'm here to help you! Cast off the shackles of your husbands and brothers, who are obviously brutal in a oh so brutal non western way..."

 

[Netzach]

I don't forget anything. But you are talking about the fate of individuals, I'm talking about humanity. There were always the individuals that had to wrestle with saber-tooth cats and other individuals that sent out other people to do that.

You are belittling the improvement of pig farming over the saber-tooth cat wrestling, because the pig farmer was exploited by the feudal landowner. This is unsound.

If you check any history of labor, which I'd say is probably responsible for more improvement in the lives of the well-fed, well-read, who don't happen to have wealthy generations behind them than most things we take for-granted, had WOMEN said "screw this I'm checking out of the Struggle, you guys march on your own" you would have none of its benefits. As in zero. It simply would not have worked. Had labor been relegated to a woman's issue, it would not have worked either. My great grandparents were not at one another's throats over who had a shittier day at the piecework machines. Everything else, probably. However, the presence of masses of women in the labor movement was so tied to first-wave feminism that you can't really say "we got along so well without feminism." Unless you really like a seven days 14 hours schedule.

 

[Netzach]

There were over two dozens attempts to kill Hitler. Not a single attempt by a woman.

Well that's a pretty poor way to construct that argument. Failing to KILL Hitler is a hell of a lot less damning than actually thrilling over the guy at rallies, voting for him, or living 2 feet away from the chimney and saying "oh, didn't know there were people there behind that wall." All things that women were happy to do as well as men.

24 men out of how many had the sack to try to off the guy - doesn't speak too well of men either.

 

[satindesire]

Radfems blame all men for all problems, Netz. Not a single TERF is here in this thread, and no one has blamed all men for all problems and abolished all women from all blame in participating in that system.

FFS, Feminism isn't about that. Radical Feminism might be about that but RadFems are about as trustworthy as a model for Feminism as a Westboro Baptist member is as a model for Christianity.

We are speaking about the ways this system has hurt us personally. This thread is specifically designed to allow people who see the oppression of minorities, gays and women all over the world and who want to talk about it.

This thread isn't about demonizing everyone with a dick.

And yeah, people as a whole kind of suck. On the other hand, people as a whole kind of rock, and this thread is an excellent example of how human beings can be stellar examples of humanity.

I think we all came here looking to not only vent about the things that bug us about the Patriarchal system, but also we came here looking for the Why, and the How To Fix It.

 

[KoPilot]

Out of curiosity: Are you unable or unwilling to comprehend what people write?

Trolls aren't people, silly.

 

[Primalex]

Radfems blame all men for all problems, Netz. Not a single TERF is here in this thread, and no one has blamed all men for all problems and abolished all women from all blame in participating in that system.

So you don't read your own thread.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So you don't read your own thread.

Yeah, we have Dyslexica, who sometimes spouts TERF rubbish, and then there are women who have been sarcastic, which is always a boon to people who have no good will themselves.

 

[KoPilot]

It' always gives me a thrill to see fanturds completely abandon any last ounce of integrity they have in order to try and scoot just that much closer to a creative that works on their beloved franchise.

Especially when it's a loud, disgusting misogynist that goes and fawns over an extremely feminist post made by someone they hate just because doing so meant being able to suck up to someone who works on the property boosted it.

Fucking fandom, I swear.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It' always gives me a thrill to see fanturds completely abandon any last ounce of integrity they have in order to try and scoot just that much closer to a creative that works on their beloved franchise.

Especially when it's a loud, disgusting misogynist that goes and fawns over an extremely feminist post made by someone they hate just because doing so meant being able to suck up to someone who works on the property boosted it.

Fucking fandom, I swear.

Maybe they're being sincere. Maybe the arguments make sense to them.

*blink blink*

*blink*

 

[satindesire]

Maybe they're being sincere. Maybe the arguments make sense to them.

*blink blink*

*blink*

Perhaps! But people don't usually switch sides so quickly. Most of the time it's disingenuous brown nosing, and once they're done they'll go right back to being the same old sexist pigs. I think it's safe to have a healthy streak of skepticism in cases like this.

 

[KoPilot]

Perhaps! But people don't usually switch sides so quickly. Most of the time it's disingenuous brown nosing, and once they're done they'll go right back to being the same old sexist pigs. I think it's safe to have a healthy streak of skepticism in cases like this.

Yeah, sucking up is the important thing.

They're proudly spouting the shit before and after the thing.

 

[midwestyankee]

Here's an interesting insight into a related problem: misogyny directed at female reporters and bloggers.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Notice how certain male commenters try to deny what the women are commenting on (via a very familiar blend of straw-man arguments, false equivalencies, red herrings and a general scattershot trolling style that I have begun to call "Primalexing") -- while carefully NOT engaging the male writer?

 

[satindesire]

Notice how certain male commenters try to deny what the women are commenting on (via a very familiar blend of straw-man arguments, false equivalencies, red herrings and a general scattershot trolling style that I have begun to call "Primalexing") -- while carefully NOT engaging the male writer?

I saw this on youtube once: "The comments after an article on Feminism justify why we need it."

Never a truthier truth than that.

 

[reallyunsure]

I saw this on youtube once: "The comments after an article on Feminism justify why we need it."

Well that left a mark.